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Bush service redux

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
Okey dokey, we've had our fun with the Swift Boat liars and their easily refuted smear campaign.

Now let's once again turn our attention to Bush's well documented lapses during his National Guard Service.

Looks like it's starting to stir again: Bush military record lacks required documents:

Quote:
Documents that should have been written to explain gaps in President Bush's Texas Air National Guard service are missing from the military records released about his service in 1972 and 1973, according to regulations and outside experts.

(....)

Quote:
The five kinds of missing files are:

A report from the Texas Air National Guard to Bush's local draft board certifying that Bush remained in good standing; The government has released copies of those DD Form 44 documents for Bush for 1971 and earlier years but not for 1972 or 1973. Records from Bush's draft board in Houston do not show his draft status changed after he joined the guard in 1968. The AP obtained the draft board records August 27 under the Freedom of Information Act.


Records of a required investigation into why Bush lost flight status; When Bush skipped his 1972 physical, regulations required his Texas commanders to "direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination," according to the Air Force manual at the time. An investigative report was supposed to be forwarded "with the command recommendation" to Air Force officials "for final determination." Bush's spokesmen have said he skipped the exam because he knew he would be doing desk duty in Alabama. But Bush was required to take the physical by the end of July 1972, more than a month before he won final approval to train in Alabama.


A written acknowledgment from Bush that he had received the orders grounding him; His Texas commanders were ordered to have Bush sign such a document; but none has been released.


Reports of formal counseling sessions Bush was required to have after missing more than three training sessions; Bush missed at least five months' worth of National Guard training in 1972. No documents have surfaced indicating Bush was counseled or had written authorization to skip that training or make it up later. Commanders did have broad discretion to allow guardsmen to make up for missed training sessions, said Weaver and Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel chief during the Reagan administration from 1981 to 1985. "If you missed it, you could make it up," said Korb, who now works for the Center for American Progress, which supports Kerry.


A signed statement from Bush acknowledging he could be called to active duty if he did not promptly transfer to another guard unit after leaving Texas; The statement was required as part of a Vietnam-era crackdown on no-show guardsmen. Bush was approved in September 1972 to train with the Alabama unit, more than four months after he left Texas.

All this, of course, from the notorious leftist front group the Associated Press.

The irony is that by using Kerry's record as a basis for a smear campaign, the Bushies may have opened up the field for some real investigative reporting into his AWOL days, while satisfying the SCL media's mania for "fairness" (OK, we did Kerry, now it's fair to do Bush).
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #2 of 39
I posted this in the 'other' Bush National Guard thread. It conveniently wasn't answered there either.

I want proof Kerry completed his guard service.

Kerry went off active duty on January 3, 1970. He was put on standby reserve on 1 July 1972. He was finally discharged from the Navy on February 16, 1978.

Do we have any proof, from 1970 to 1972 that Kerry honored his reserve commitment?

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #3 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I posted this in the 'other' Bush National Guard thread. It conveniently wasn't answered there either.

I want proof Kerry completed his guard service.

Kerry went off active duty on January 3, 1970. He was put on standby reserve on 1 July 1972. He was finally discharged from the Navy on February 16, 1978.

Do we have any proof, from 1970 to 1972 that Kerry honored his reserve commitment?

Nick

Sorry, not interested in your pointless game. Please stay on topic.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #4 of 39
Chances are that we will find all of those documents is *whatever-his-mame-is-the-document-thief* Berger's underpants...

-Neø the dittohead
Crunch for the Cure!
http://www.find-a-drug.org/

---------------------------------
God created Adam and Eve, He didnt create Adam and Steve
-Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
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Crunch for the Cure!
http://www.find-a-drug.org/

---------------------------------
God created Adam and Eve, He didnt create Adam and Steve
-Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
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post #5 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Neø
Chances are that we will find all of those documents is *whatever-his-mame-is-the-document-thief* Berger's underpants...

-Neø the dittohead

Oh god. (shakes it off)..

Anyway, Nick, just to keep you from derailing the thread by harping, take a look at the PDF service documents on Kerry's website.

You'll see that he was put up for lieutenant in the Naval Reserve on Dec. 14, 1970, and officially accepted (with all the usual counter-signatories) on Jan. 4, 1971.

I suppose he might have accepted his promotion from an undisclosed location, or then immediately wandered off and squandered that final year, but....

Those docs were awfully easy to find, so if you're trying to make some kind of point in re Bush's record of service, I would say that you have succeeded in proving that an actual service record makes it pretty easy to account for the whereabouts of the party in question.

Any questions?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #6 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Sorry, not interested in your pointless game. Please stay on topic.

What is your point then? That Bush hasn't proven his service and that Kerry has proven his service and released his service and medical records?

Why the one-sided demands?

First what would the proof of service prove? Give your POINT. Then hold both candidates accountable for the information to prove that point.

Otherwise, it is you playing a pointless game.

BTW,
www.agendaforamerica.com


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Oh god. (shakes it off)..

Anyway, Nick, just to keep you from derailing the thread by harping, take a look at the PDF service documents on Kerry's website.

You'll see that he was put up for lieutenant in the Naval Reserve on Dec. 14, 1970, and officially accepted (with all the usual counter-signatories) on Jan. 4, 1971.

I suppose he might have accepted his promotion from an undisclosed location, or then immediately wandered off and squandered that final year, but....

Those docs were awfully easy to find, so if you're trying to make some kind of point in re Bush's record of service, I would say that you have succeeded in proving that an actual service record makes it pretty easy to account for the whereabouts of the party in question.

Any questions?

You see only that which Kerry wants you to see. There are hundreds of pages of his military records that have not been released.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #8 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You see only that which Kerry wants you to see. There are hundreds of pages of his military records that have not been released.

Nick

Good ole Trumpy, always moving the bar on his thread derailing snipe hunts.... (gazes off contentedly into space).

What? Oh, yeah....

There aren't any questions about the duration of Kerry's service.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #9 of 39
Thread Starter 
Anywho, back on topic, one of the main points of the article is that the documents in question appear to be missing outright.

Not "Bush hasn't released them" but, like, gone.

I invite us all to think back to the tale of one Bill Burkett:

Quote:
Burkett says that the state Guard commander, Maj. Gen. Daniel James III, discussed "cleansing" Bush's military files of embarrassing or incriminating documents in the summer of 1997. At the time, Burkett was a lieutenant colonel and a chief adviser to James. He says he was just outside James' open office door when his boss discussed the records on a speakerphone with Joe Allbaugh, who was then Gov. Bush's chief of staff.

Now there may be copies elsewhere-- AP has initiated an investigation. That could very interesting indeed, don't you think?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #10 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
What is your point then? That Bush hasn't proven his service and that Kerry has proven his service and released his service and medical records?

Why the one-sided demands?

First what would the proof of service prove? Give your POINT. Then hold both candidates accountable for the information to prove that point.

Otherwise, it is you playing a pointless game.

BTW,
www.agendaforamerica.com


Nick

Sorry, forgot this...

So you want some unknown Kerry records to answer hypothetical "questions" about a made up "controversy", and this is supposed to "balance" the genuine gaps in the actually undocumented parts of Bush's still to be accounted for service record?

Ummm...... no.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #11 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I posted this in the 'other' Bush National Guard thread. It conveniently wasn't answered there either.

I want proof Kerry completed his guard service.

Kerry went off active duty on January 3, 1970. He was put on standby reserve on 1 July 1972. He was finally discharged from the Navy on February 16, 1978.

Do we have any proof, from 1970 to 1972 that Kerry honored his reserve commitment?

Nick

Well then, you'll be happy to know I responded. You probably wont like my respons because it will require research on your behalf which will show how silly this line of reasoning is. It all boils down to when is a DD214 issued and what is the "standby reserve"? When you feel froggy enough to actually do some research you see how easily this could have been answered by you and how silly the question really is. Enjoy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You see only that which Kerry wants you to see. There are hundreds of pages of his military records that have not been released.

Nick

Military records don't have 100's of pages unless someone makes the military a career. The first few dozen are high-school and college and military training related and of not relevance. You'd know this if you served. The only important parts of a military record are the individual annual reviews (released) the citations (released) and the DD214 (released). Spend some time in a uniform and I guarantee all of these silly questions you've come up with will be answered. Hell you know how to play an instrument don't you? Joint the Navy band. You'll get E5 off the bat.

[edit]spelling
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #13 of 39
I thought dodging military service was heroic to you anti-war lefties?
post #14 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I thought dodging military service was heroic to you anti-war lefties?

Well, if your going to post snide comments like this then you should back them up. McCain aside (he's a lot more centrist coservative) how many neocons in the government have served? Also, I wonder where Pat Buchanan stands with regards to the war... Hmmm maybe he's an anti-war conservative. Maybe people who take, or took, the time to think about this war realize how utterly and totally stupid it was.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #15 of 39
Its clear and simple: Bush wandered, as a spoiled coward might, and later, there was outright destruction of official documents . . . that means dirty work . . .its clear and obvious

but

since the 'liberal' media is NOT existant, and since the majority of Liberals, or Conservatives who dislike Bush, don't have it in them to be as visious as Bush in his slanderocity, then it will merely make a blip on boards like these . . . . the fact that there are witnesses to the expunging of his records will mean nothing to the vote . . . the fact that he is a miserable criminal on top of lying and an incompetent leader means nothing . . .

I could just imagine how this would have left Kerry at the bus station long ago if it was in his record . . . unstead we get complete fabrications which turn his heroism into a liability

I am so sickened by the whole thing that I can no longer even keep up the energy . . . these out of focus ideologues and prime-time Republican media-image puppets are dong the unthinkable . . .they are reelecting the simgle worst president ever to have taken office

forgive them for they know not . . . .

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #16 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Well then, you'll be happy to know I responded. You probably wont like my respons because it will require research on your behalf which will show how silly this line of reasoning is. It all boils down to when is a DD214 issued and what is the "standby reserve"? When you feel froggy enough to actually do some research you see how easily this could have been answered by you and how silly the question really is. Enjoy.

Actually faust, you may have read wrong or misinterpreted the time I was questioning. I'm not questioning his standby reserve status from 72-78. I'm questioning the time he left active duty in January of 1970. He was not put on standby until 1972. I am questioning his time commitment to his ready reserve status. According to what I have read, as a member of the ready reserve he should have drilling 48 times per year with a two week camp each year.

Most accounts, including the Brinkley book, say Kerry was honorable discharged in 1970 and served from that time forward on standby reserve status. The reality is that he was on ready reserve for two more years and likely did not participate. I've not read nor heard of any evidence that he participated or was excused.

Also Kerry has not released all the military records because he has not released certain records related to the first purple heart.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Military records don't have 100's of pages unless someone makes the military a career. The first few dozen are high-school and college and military training related and of not relevance. You'd know this if you served. The only important parts of a military record are the individual annual reviews (released) the citations (released) and the DD214 (released). Spend some time in a uniform and I guarantee all of these silly questions you've come up with will be answered. Hell you know how to play an instrument don't you? Joint the Navy band. You'll get E5 off the bat.

[edit]spelling

I tried to enlist in the Marines for their band. However my medical records had my asthma all over it. I told them that I was able to control it with medicine and participated in sports like track, basketball and football with no problems. The recruiter told me that the Marines weren't okay with my asthma being able to be controlled with medicine and likely would not take me for service or would medically discharge me after it was discovered.

So I went to college, but I did try.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I tried to enlist in the Marines for their band. However my medical records had my asthma all over it. I told them that I was able to control it with medicine and participated in sports like track, basketball and football with no problems. The recruiter told me that the Marines weren't okay with my asthma being able to be controlled with medicine and likely would not take me for service or would medically discharge me after it was discovered.

So I went to college, but I did try.

Sorry to hear 'bout the asthma.

Anyway, Kerry was transfered to the Inactive Reserve on January 3, 1970 http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...ctive_Duty.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...of_Service.pdf

Enjoy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Sorry to hear 'bout the asthma.

Anyway, Kerry was transfered to the Inactive Reserve on January 3, 1970 http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...ctive_Duty.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...of_Service.pdf

Enjoy.

There can no longer be any doubt about it. Kerry was on inactrive duty and was not required to report for anything unless requested to do so, which he wasn't.

Now we just need to wait for the next straw man while Nick dredges up another distraction from the real issues here.

This one was an extremely weak attempt. More... grasping... straws...

By the way. George W. Bush has a horrible record as president, and in terms or real accomplishments vs. failures, economic disaster, diplomatic disaster, natural resources disaster, further division of Americans from one-another, American lives lost, American dollars spent, increase of the wealth gap, reduction of the standard of living for the middle class, it's painfully obvious that his has been the WORST presidency we've ever had.

REGIME CHANGE WHERE IT COUNTS!!!!!
post #20 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I thought dodging military service was heroic to you anti-war lefties?

And we all can see that inane bullshit is like mother's milk to you half-wit reactionaries.

Except I can back my impression by citing posts. Can you?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #21 of 39
As much as I would love to see this issue be used to hang Bush, the democrats have seriously got to let this one go. This is an issue of minutiae, and minutiae don't stick with the public. Add to this that it's simply too easy for records to get lost or misplaced, or for there to be debates over what constitutes disclosure.

This is NOT going to have the effect that the dems would like. As Shawn rightly pointed out elsewhere, even if Bush were to admit all of this is true, all the Bush team has to do is say two magic words in politics:

youthful indiscretion

If this is going to be used, the left needs to roll it into a case against Bush laying out a systematic and lifelong use of privilege to duck responsibility. And then this into an argument that Bush shirks responsibility all the time. And then this into an argument that Bush has never, ever known the kind of difficulties regular Americans face on a day to day basis.

The more they can paint him with that brush--irresponsible, privileged, out of touch with the plight of mainstream America--the better their chances. The more they focus on Vietnam, the sooner Karl Rove can laugh all the way to the bank.

There's a fine post over at Daily Kos to this effect.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Sorry to hear 'bout the asthma.

Anyway, Kerry was transfered to the Inactive Reserve on January 3, 1970 http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...ctive_Duty.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...of_Service.pdf

Enjoy.

Thanks, you found my answer. I will admit that this is different from what I have typically seen with service. Perhaps it was more a feature of the time. Most people I have known are not placed on inactive ready reserve status, but whatever. I asked, you answered. Thank you.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #23 of 39
Uh Oh!!! Bush didn't meet the requirements for an honorable discharge
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #24 of 39
Memos from his ex commander now!!

There is an old saying: "The very rich are not like you and me"

They expect to have other demands made of them . . . Bush expected to not have to do anything.

from SALON (flash ad viewing trquired)
Quote:
CBS News: Bush "gamed the system"

Even before the much anticipated 60 Minutes interview with former Texas official Ben Im very ashamed Barnes, CBS News delivered another blow to George W. Bushs reputation on its Wednesday evening broadcast. CBS White House correspondent John Roberts reported that the network has found four documents from the files of Col. Jerry Killian, Bushs squadron commander in the Texas Air National Guard, that call into serious question the presidents military service record. One memo located by CBS refers to a discussion between Bush and his commander about how Bush can get out coming to drill from now through November. Due to other commitments, Bush pleaded, he may not have time.

On August 1, 1972, Col. Killian grounded Bush for failure to perform up to military standards and for failure to take his annual physical examination as ordered. A year after grounding Bush, Killian was asked to write another assessment of the young pilot. In this memo, an obviously exasperated Killian observes that he is being pressured by higher-ups to give Bush a positive evaluation, to in effect, sugarcoat his review, reported CBS. But Killian refused, writing, Im having trouble running interference and doing my job.

Killian is deceased, but the explosive documents he left behind threw the White House into high-spin mode. Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett tried shrugging them off, saying its impossible to read the mind of a dead man"
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #25 of 39
Excerpts from the Memos released Wednesday night. http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040909_111.html

Enjoy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #26 of 39
.
post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I thought dodging military service was heroic to you anti-war lefties?

troll.

Message edited by powerdoc.
post #28 of 39
Bush facts

Enjoy.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Bush facts

Enjoy.

Nick

Bush Facts:

CLAIM:

"The White House says, `We've released all of_[the documents]. You should take our word for it and this is the evidence.'"

- CNN, 2/13/04

FACT:

"After the [CBS] broadcast, the White House, without comment, released to the news media two of the memos, one ordering Bush to report for his physical exam and the other suspending him from flight status."

- AP, 9/9/04
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #30 of 39
Bush Facts:

Larry Korb, an assistant Secretary of Defense under President Reagan has reviewed the Mr. Bush's record and believes he did not fulfill his contract.

"Essentially, Bush gamed the system to avoid serving his country the way that most of his contemporaries had to," Korb said.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #31 of 39
Bush Facts:

Dan Bartlett told CBS "So he went to school. The Guard knew, at federal, state, and local level, where he was, what he was doing, and if they wanted him in an active duty capacity, they knew exactly where to find him."

But, apparently, the Guard didn't know where he was!

They couldn't find him!
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #32 of 39
Bush Facts:

In fact, the White House has now released their own copies of two of the memos and doesn't dispute their authenticity. So if I had to guess, I'd say that these are copies taken from the microfilm archives of the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron. How else would the White House have its own copies?

But that's just fluff. The real question now is: what other documents does the White House have? Obviously they've had these sitting around for a while, and just as obviously they've held them back even though they claimed in February that they had made available every known document related to Bush's National Guard record.

So what else are they hiding? And when are they going to approve AP's FOIA request to view all relevant microfilm records directly?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #33 of 39
Even Howard Kurtz says it's fair game
by John in DC - 9/9/2004 10:31:25 AM

You know you're in trouble when Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz, usually a pro-Bush clone, writes the following: "Bush partisans who reveled in every twist and turn of the swift boat controversy are hardly in a position to argue that the president's past life should be strictly off limits."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #34 of 39


"Listen, soldier, if I could personally knock out a whole 8-ball in one weekend back at Yale and still hold pledges over the side of a building without dropping them I can at least do a few lines and do a night landing on this carrier. YEEEEEEHAAAAW! My balls look HUGE in this uniform! YEAH!"
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #35 of 39
Very good time article about the Bush Memo's and his service:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...695873,00.html

Enjoy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #36 of 39
Oowell said that the draft policy if vietnam was terible for allowing the sons of the powerful to get cushy positions

Here he is, 'once the highest ranking military officer in the country and now Secretary Of State saying that he abhored the policies, which he felt were antiDemocratic and a complete disgrace.

ARTICLE

Here is some meat:
Quote:
n his 1995 autobiography, "My American Journey," Powell characterized draft policies during most of the Vietnam era as "an antidemocratic disgrace."

"I am angry that so many sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units," he wrote.

Asked about that and Bush's military career on "Fox News Sunday," Powell said: "I disagree with the policies that were in place at that time. I didn't think it was the right set of policies for the challenge the nation was facing.

of course he lists Bush as a 'volunteer'
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #37 of 39
What a fucking coincidence!!!
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #38 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
What a fucking coincidence!!!

And late on a Friday night too.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
And late on a Friday night too.

It must have been one heck of a busy Friday, because when I looked at that CNN article, there was another right below it: Bush submitted his National Intelligence Director "plan" to Congress tonight. Naturally, it creates a figurehead with no real power. How surprising they release it on Friday night.
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