If the World could vote in the US Presidential Election..... - Page 2

Hassan i Sabbah you are a very silly boy.

I still have my deadline, but now I have a beer.


What you're implying in "religious fundamentalism" is the notion that Cartesian logic previals when the chips are down---and rather not that someone cracks the codex and takes a peak at what divine revelation has to bear on the question at hand---that in the end man [personhood for you PC types] bears the burden of infallibility.

We "know" this since it is an absolute certainty that God cannot exist in any form that would make divine revelation possible.

At any rate, you SEEM to be complaining that GWB is doing this at length---to the point of making EVERYONE in the whole world "mad" at America---and the ONLY "real" reason for this is one man's "religious fundamentalism" and not that a multiplicty of factors are involved. (Actually this couldn't include GWB's "religious fundamentalism" because he is a Methodist---an extremely progressive and dispensational denomination.)

(Baptists are Methodists who can read, by the way.)


I really can't wrap my head around why in the hell we should care why the "rest of the world" "hates" America---because we always have been hated; it's just now it's Europe "doing" the "hating." Hell, if it wasn't the Chinese, USSR, Eastern Europe, or North Korea it would have to be someone---it just happens that Europe wants what America has, and is getting serious about taking it. Unfortunately this includes a good deal of Marketing/PR work on the part of Europe in giving negative cues to whatever serves the purpose of spinning what America does in a negative light. Divorcing the EU's goals of being a heavy hitter on the world stage from "the news" coming out of Europe is ludicrious. There were great protests, during the Clinton years, I didn't hear any damning condemnations on how screwed up we were on world trade.

The more I read History, the more I pity ANYONE who thinks what is really going on in the world is being reported in the press. (and that includes the weather) It's somehwhat akin to adjusting your sexual life with each issue of Cosmo.

Yeah, right on.

By 'fundamentalism' I mean (I don't know if this is the 'correct' definition) an adherence to scripture that requires a particularly inflexible mindset that brings, as a corollary, a distorted idea of the way things 'actually are'. In Christianity this means the age of the planet, for example. There are many Christian people, I imagine you're one of them, who actually really dig the teachings of Christ. I don't disagree with any of them - how could you? Desmond Tutu, Martin Luther King and the abolitionists made inarguable cases from their faith.

I agree that if you were genuinely into the 'fundamentals' of Christianity you would be, I suppose, militantly tolerant and forbearing. If that were possible.

Conservatism helps to define fundamentalism, as I understand it. I don't think Jesus would dig third world debt, such disparity of poverty and wealth and the glorification of armed force we've seen in the last year any more than Mohammed would dig suicide bombs.

Well if the World could vote in the US Presendential Election is more or less a direct question of does the world's say have any relevence (which is a point you yourself talked about), and hence do they have any say? My argument is that they do have a great deal of say already, and that the original question at hand is far more relevent than you or others have taken into consideration.

Too bad the world can vote in the elections of ...


Saudi Arabia
Iran
Syria
Jordan
Syria
UAE
Oman
Yemen
Egypt
Libya
Algeria
Sudan
Somalia
*stans
Pakistan
North Korea
China
Russia
Malaysia
Cuba
France
...

Because you need us that's why. If the "rest of the world" turns against you, starts treating you like the rogue state you're very close to becoming, you're screwed.

Yeah you are. Really. Don't believe me? Well just off the top of my head what have some of the rest of us got that you need.

Little old Oz? Northwest Cape and Pine Gap communication facilities. Vital to your country's defence.

The UK? Bloody hell you need them bad. They pull out on you, that alone could screw you because you've been foolish enough to spread your defence forces so thinly across the globe.

Middle East? Give me an O, give me an I, give me an L......what does it spell?

Asia? How you gonna cope without that big ol' supply of cheap labour huh? Want your Nike's to cost three times as much. That can be arranged.

You need us as trading partners, you need us for foreign investment, you need us to satisfy your insatiable hunger for raw materials, you need us to buy all the weapons you produce.

You need us to keep propping you up. Individually we might not matter (although even that's arguable especially with regard to oil), but collectively we are your life blood.

Yeah you're a big market but not big enough.
Yeah you're rich in natural resources but not rich enough.

Not anymore. Things have changed. Time to put the haughty isolationism, the over-blown national pride, the American Dream aside and reunite with the human race. I guarantee you'd be welcomed with open arms.


In the meantime, I vote we piss 'em off and elect Hassan as First President of the Rest of the World. I like his policies.

I've been insulted backwards and forwards on these boards but for some reason, coming from dmz, this is about as annoying as it gets.


'Divine revelation' has no place in government. I refer you to the Taleban, to Iran, to Saudi Arabia, to Torquemada, to the Dutch Reformed Church of South Africa. And I'd like to know if your defence of fundamentalism applies to Islamists or if it's only Christians who have the privilege of deciding what to do 'when the chips are down' by 'cracking the codex.' (He means 'opening a book of scripture', incidentally; I know it's confusing.)


Of course we don't. But if you were waiting for divine revelation every time you needed to make a decision you might as well crack open the tarot cards.


Total, utter, absolute nonsense. "The world hates us! And it's... EUROPE'S FAULT!" OK. European PR is responsible for 9/11, anti-Bush demonstrations from Cape Town to Montreal and the bombing of the Cole. Riiiight. American foreign and economic policy? Nah. Everyone would love America if it weren't for those frigging, godless, gay-marrying Arab-appeasers in EEEEEEEUROPE!!!!!!!1!!!!!one!!!!!!!!!!two!!!!!!!!! !!!

Edit: the world, actually, does not 'hate you'. I remember reading an opinion poll that asked the question 'what do you think of Americans?' and 'do you believe America is a force for good in the world?' In Europe, the French (unbelievably) were more positive than most other nations, even the British. They were near the top; the Canadians beat them. It seems 'we' don't hate America. We do fucking hate your President, though.

DMZ, I recommend you buy and use goods manufactured by Americans. You can start by throwing out the Taiwanese electronic goods out the door. Go through your household items and the stuff you own and try to figure out what sustains your lifestyle. You will find that it is the 'cheap labour' that is present elsewhere that is keeping you afloat. Again, if we start using the Euro as the trading currency for Oil and remove the over inflated ratios of the US dollar, the rest of the world's currencies might not be so 'cheap'.

Between the US and the UK, you supply more than 50% of the world's weaponary. War is good for your market indices. The Dow Jones went up thanks to the war in Iraq and the parasites aka corporations that raided it after. Your government encourages people to sign up for the military so that the people can afford to pay artificially inflated college fees while the military maintains a ridiculous force all over the world.

You can keep voting for people like GWB to be your president. One fine day you might find that your trading partners have stopped trading with you. What will you do then? Bomb them?

To get back on topic, if only we had a reputable poll conducted by a respected agency, like Gallup, or (I don't know) someone like ICM, or something. Then we could

what's that, Black Beauty? are you trying to tell me something? What's that? A survey of eleven countries conducted by ICM on behalf of the BBC last June tells us that %60 of respondents outside of America had a 'very' or 'fairly unfavourable' attitude towards George Bush?

But that must mean we're anti-American, Beauty!

No? Because "with 50% expressing fairly or very favourable views as opposed to 40% of unfavourable views" about America, we're clearly able to distinguish between the President and the country and it's clearly the President we all hate?

Thanks for clearing that up.

A book all of you Bush haters should read to educate yourselves on what a great man he really is.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...658375-2530402

---don't even go there Hassan i Sabbah, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You cannot divorce the spin coming out of Europe from Europe's intentions---willing dupes in the media too used to taking cultural cues from that neck of the woods aside. The prattle coming from Europe is getting mixed in with the normal din coming from elsewhere---and not much more than that.

(America has always been the Great Satan in the ME, generally speaking, it's just now it's expedient for the press to draw attention to it.)

Also, thanks for confirming my suspicions on your most egregious postion relative to divine revelation.

As for the rest of you, there is a reason I put "the rest of the world" in quotes. I understand the global economy and that world needs gains form trade to prosper. I also understand market competition, and the prattle, spin, press releases, and "media events" that go with it. The prattle coming from Europe is a mix of many things, but don't ANY of you try to tell me that the majority of what I'm hearing is genuine.

Main Entry: ploy
Pronunciation: 'ploi
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from employ
1 : ESCAPADE, FROLIC
2 a : a tactic intended to embarrass or frustrate an opponent b : a devised or contrived move : STRATAGEM <a ploy to get her to open the door -- Robert B. Parker>

Genius. I have no response for this. Because I can't understand it.


Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.


Main Entry: knobcheese
Pronunciation: 'nob-chëz
Function: noun
Eytmology: compound noun, 'knob', 'cheese'
1: SMEGMA (qv.), PREPUCE EFFLUVIA
2 a: something unwanted, repellent b: 'prison lubricant' c: something that smells kinda bad, like a rhesus monkey's ballsack

FINE

WHATEVER


(Don't bother me---I'm busy)

Nice defintion BTW, you should write that out a hundred times for coming up with it.

gobbledygook and thorough philophastery

This tells me that most of the world doesn't get it. These spineless nations are not willing to stand up to defend freedom and their way of life. We don't want another 911. We don't want a school occupied by terrorists. President Bush had the spine to go after the terrorists and kill them on their own soil. The rest of these whimpy countries can live with evil and terrorism, but we are not willing to. That most other countries want President Bush out is even more reason for Americans to keep him as our President. You know, this is a very special and important time in the history of the world. God has annointed President Bush with a mission to see to it that good prevails over evil. God has choosen us and trusted us with a tremendous responsibility. We must keep President Bush in power.

The greatest threat to US soil is the far right hate groups that produced McVeigh...

This tells me you're a complete nutter.

oh give me break---at least cop to your Cartesian underpinnings, even if you aren't ready to accept their implications!

What the fuck do you know about other countries except the bullshit you hear on Rush LImbaugh?
Right, just like he went after and killed Osama? Have you ever been out of your backwards neighborhood even? Stop embarrassing yourself.

LMAO. Good one. Bush, the son of God.

Now there's the signal that a even-handed post is on it's way.

You do realize that his sort of thinking is thoroughly insane?

This is the same as the fundamentalist extremists who believes their mission is 'annointed' and that their killing is in God's favor

I swear, it is amazing to come on these boards and to see something that I would have assumed HAD to be parody, simply HAD to be because it was so unbelievably warped and self-deluded and it happens more often than you might think.

"Cartesian underpinnings' . . . gimme a break . . .that was Intro to Existentialism as a Freshman . . . "boy how we were all so blinded by 'Newton's sleep', thank you Kierkegaard for allowing me . . . "
what?

To regress into my youthful unreflective 'religion' . . but now with an apologia in a borrowed vocabulary?!

Cartesian grid panic is old hat . . . thought through that one years ago, time to move on and start thinking beyond the quicksand of lapserian ease and the regression of institutional sublimation.

Yeah. Complete fucking gibberish.


OK.

Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) 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But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. 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This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. But it is not a question of 'spin', nor 'prattle', nor 'press release', nor-under 'media event', but spun, etc., (or better yet, histori-culturally speaking at any rate.) This much is clear to anyone who ears to goodness.Here I must restoratively disinter, dmz. You appear to reflect (genuflect?) a disappropriate; this is a quality. 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Count 'em.

I'm honored you had nothing better to do than to reply to a post...that wasn't addressed to you. It's cute to see you "common folk" sticking together though.

I trust you.

Fine


...wait, you're trying to tell me you don't exist, aren't you?

Well, er, you showed him. Masterful.

Anyway. Back on topic. Today, GlobeScan released the result of a poll conducted in 35 countries asking who they wanted to win the American election. In only three countriesPoland, Nigeria and the Philippinesdid they want Bush. In two othersIndia and Thailandthe result was more-or-less split.

Everywhere else Bush 'lost' two to one. In Britain 47% prefer Kerry to Bush. Bush polled 16%.

I'm fairly certain that this post proves that Common Man is a joke user ID, but just in case this is in any way serious: where did you hear that God 'annointed President Bush' with any kind of mission? I had heard that God meant to vote for Gore, but messed up the ballot 'cause She didn't have Her reading glasses with Her.

He might have dropped a couple of really nasty ad-hominems in there. You know, where nobody would notice. It's the sort of sneaky thing he'd do.

I've strongly suspected for a long time that Common Man is simply a troll putting on an act... however (and this is one thing trolls feed upon), the scary truth is that there are real people like Common Man, people who you'd think just have to be a gross parody of reality, but who turn out, frighteningly, to be real people.

Troll, or truly bizarre living-parody-of-himself real person? Your guess is as good as mine.

Madam, you wound me.

Oh come on! dmz's going blind reading that post trying to find them.

You're just pissed you didn't think of it.......

You're OK by me.

Hey, my day's improving.

yes....I'll have to check that in my "spare" time.

--thank you, thank you---and on half my usual espresso, too.



On this poll business, even if Amercia were the most popular country on Earth this wouldn't matter. America has her own self interest to attend to---egging Americans to be popular seems like leading the mice to the cat.


(Unless someone posts something really clever, I'm going to leave it there.)

Oh, just in case anyone is ambigous on "clever":


Main Entry: clev·er Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: klev(r)
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): -er/-est
Etymology: Middle English cliver, probably of Scandinavian origin; akin to Danish dialect kløver clever, skillful, alert, Old Norse kljfa to split, pierce -- more at CLEAVE
1 : showing deftness, skill, or adroitness in using the hands or in other bodily movements : NIMBLE <clever with the gloves>
2 : having mental quickness, intelligence, resourcefulness in improvising often accompanied by craft, wit, or physical dexterity <you are a clever man, ... you reason well, and your wit is bold -- Bram Stoker> <through the porcelain ... a clever artisan had thrust a rivet -- Elinor Wylie>; often : intelligent, quick, ingenious, and resourceful but lacking in depth, soundness, wisdom, or morality <too clever to be sound -- Van Wyck Brooks> <an exercise in clever film-making without ever striking fire as a film -- Arthur Knight>
3 : characterized by the display of wit or ingenuity <a clever poem> <his judgments were wise rather than clever -- James Hilton> <applauded his clever sparkling speech>
4 now dialect a : in good health <wasn't looking too clever -- Thomas Wood died 1950> b : well-shaped : CLEAN-LIMBED -- used especially of an animal <a right clever horse> c : well-made : carefully constructed <a clever spade>
5 now chiefly dialect : convenient or easy to use or handle <a sweet craft, trim, staunch, and clever to handle -- S.H.Adams> : SATISFACTORY, PLEASING <clever land for farming> -- a generalized expression of approval
6 dialect : GOOD-NATURED, OBLIGING, AMIABLE, HOSPITABLE <good clever man -- Elizabeth M. Roberts>
synonyms ADROIT, CUNNING, INGENIOUS: although CLEVER still occasionally retains its old meaning of physical dexterity, agility, and deftness, it usually indicates mental alertness and resourcefulness <curiously clever at all kinds of things ... a sort of impromptu conjuring, making fifteen matches set fire to each other like a regular firework -- G.K.Chesterton> <"who invented the story -- you or her?" "He did, monsieur. He was very clever. He thought of everything" -- Dorothy Sayers> <Austin was not clever like Adrian; he seldom divined other people's ideas and always went the direct road to his object -- George Meredith> ADROIT suggests shrewd and wily or alert and agile expedients <the cool prudence, the sensitive selfishness, the quick perception of what is possible, which distinguish the adroit politician -- J.R.Green> <'tis said he could shave himself with the axe -- so all adroit ... does he work and play at once -- Robert Browning> CUNNING may apply to high creative skill or low guileful craft <he knew how ... to construct a plot, he was cunning in his manipulation of stage effects -- T.S.Eliot> <it is, of course, possible that a cunning man might change the tire of his bicycle in order to leave unfamiliar tracks -- A. Conan Doyle> INGENIOUS suggests brilliant or notable inventiveness and resourcefulness <the batteries being kept recharged by an ingenious device -- Dorothy Sayers> <the ingenious Yankee, quick to adapt himself everywhere, easily extricating himself from situations -- Matthew Josephson> synonym see in addition INTELLIGENT

Citation format for this entry:

"clever." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (9 Sep. 2004).

That's just the point. Sometines it is in ones own best interest not to piss everyone else off, even if it means not getting to do what you want all the time.

I see, it's a new strategy : insulting the next posters by your lack of answer.

Ouch! Now I'm wounded!

Thanks for the compliment : one cookie for you