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Report: Nvidia at root of 30-inch Apple Cinema Display delays

post #1 of 35
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It's just another delay in Cupertino, or is it? Surprisingly, industry sources aren't beating on Apple over its latest display woes.

Following reports that Apple Computer has delayed its new 30-inch high-definition Cinema display into October, The Inquirer is reporting that the company's third party graphics card supplier Nvidia may be to blame.

According to the report, Apple is "raring to go" forth with the new displays, but Nvidia is unable to produce stable versions of its new GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL card, which are required to power the 2560x1600 pixel mammoths.

"With 6800 Ultras in short supply on the PC, and the marketing machine telling everyone to buy 6800GTs, this special edition 6800 Ultra must be a niche of a niche of a niche - and possibly even less viable to produce."

The report also notes the massive size of the graphics card, suggesting that it is neither cheap nor easy to manufacture.

Based on a statement published on the Apple online store, customers who plan to use the card must automatically surrender an additional PCI slot. "Due to size of this advanced graphics card, the adjacent PCI or PCI-X slot will be blocked and cannot be used. This reduces the number of available PCI or PCI-X slots from three to two."

Apple recently informed customers that it now hopes to ship its 30-inch display, along with the Nvidia graphics card, on or before October 25th.
post #2 of 35
That story is obviously somewhat Bull sh*t because it contends that Nvidia manufacturers, and supplies graphics cards. Nvidia does not manufacturer graphics cards.

IBM manufacturers the GPU for nvidia now, and the cards are manufactured by someone different. Nvidia designs the GPU which is working so I don't see Nvidia as to blame here. I wonder who designed the card itself? Apple, and Gainward maybe?
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post #3 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
That story is obviously somewhat Bull sh*t because it contends that Nvidia manufacturers, and supplies graphics cards. Nvidia does not manufacturer graphics cards.

IBM manufacturers the GPU for nvidia now, and the cards are manufactured by someone different. Nvidia designs the GPU which is working so I don't see Nvidia as to blame here. I wonder who designed the card itself? Apple, and Gainward maybe?

True!

NVidia designs chipsets, which it licenses to board makers.

As I've always understood it, Apple is responsible for designing and manufacturing the actual board, as well as writing and maintaining the necessary drivers.

So, Apple itself is probably the culprit.
post #4 of 35
Wrong fellas.

Nvidia does make OEM boards that the many manufacturers can use. If they want to add specific functions then they must do the work themselves and writer the drivers but Nvidia does make boards. The 6800 Ultras are constrained everywhere. Apple has nothing to do with this.


Funny how people love taking swipes at Apple. Why don't we just blame terrorism on Apple and shut them down \
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post #5 of 35
That still does not prove for fact that NVidia is to blame. Gainward used to supply Apple with their Geforce cards in previous years, and I still don't think that nvidia has the facilities to manufacture a full product line of graphics cards. But if you say so.
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post #6 of 35
I will search and see if I can get confirmation later. I believe the lowend cards are mainly OEM desings from Nvidia. However I doubt they have an OEM for the Dual Link DVI cards .
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post #7 of 35
Die Nvidia, DIE!

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post #8 of 35
Well everybody, to guess the NVIDIA card was the problem is not new. Way not new. 1. I give Apple credit for holding off shipping the 30" displays. Good move. And a very interesting No.2. On the Apple boards there are now people reporting that their G5 WITH THE 6800's have been rescheduled from 10/25 BACK TO 9/17! I have been unable to confirm this with my own order BUT ...... I believe Apple moved this out to 10/25 for insurance. Insurance that they wouldn't have to move it out yet again. They'd have the time to fix what ever it is. If, if Apple was able to start shipping the 6800's before 10/25 their customers, including myself, would be most pleased.

Does Apple have a problem with the 6800's and therefore the 30" display's? YUP! At $3,900.00 a pop for the 6800 & 30" display don't think for a second that over and above making their customers happy that Apple doesn't want to make their stock holders happy with big numbers for this quarter which ends on Sept. 30. They, I believe, are sitting on a big number of 30" displays waiting for this kink to be fixed. That my friends will also hurt their bottom line this quarter.

Then let us look at NVIDIA. these people were behind the tech curve for a long time. The 6800 brought them back to the top. Then, just imagine the effect on their bottom line to have a customer like Apple using their boards! Requiring their boards!

NVIDIA or Apple or both, who cares! Why is it necessary to find someone to blame? Anyone who doesn't understand that this is far more than just the 6800 needs a dose of reality. You can believe the best minds at NVIDIA and Apple are 100% devoted to fixing this what ever it is! There are careers depending on this working and with NVIDIA quite possibly the entire company becoming an "also ran" for many, many years.

I am not pleased by having to wait for delivery on my system but I am pleased with Apple for having the courage to step back and be honest, the 10/25 date. They gave themselves enough time at risk of real anger by going out another month to insure they'd find the problem rather than break another promise and that takes balls.

You can also bet if they do fix this kink even the cleaning people will be helping to ship these out the door before Sept. 30! The reschedule from 10/25 to 9/17 above might be "imaginary" BUT there's got to be enough pressure within Apple and NVIDIA to ship prior to 9/30 that it just might, just might be true. I'll be the first to admit I want to believe it is!

The blame game is a waiste of time. Apple is doing very well handling a very serious problem.
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post #9 of 35
As someone who ordered a G5 with this card, three weeks ago, I wish they would sort out whatever probs they are facing and just fix the FVCKER!!!! It is panful to have to wait three months for something I have paid in full for.

iDunno.
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post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by iDunno
As someone who ordered a G5 with this card, three weeks ago, I wish they would sort out whatever probs they are facing and just fix the FVCKER!!!! It is panful to have to wait three months for something I have paid in full for.

iDunno.

iDunno, I don't know that the language was necessary, kind of childish I think. You and I are frustrated waiting but I believe the people at Apple who have their careers tied up in this or at NVIDIA who know this failure could damage the entire company have a lot more than some cash at risk. I don't want to be the guy at Apple or NVIDIA that gave the go ahead for announcing and production of this. There is no one more interested in getting this resolved more than them! No one! You have to believe that iDunno.

I'm thinking once this is resolved you will see your new Mac in much less than 3 months. It's raining G5's without the 6800's now. It'll rain G5's with the 6800 the minute this snag is fixed. Believe it!
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post #11 of 35
My ship date for just the 6800 is still:

On or before
09/17/2004

Order Date
07/08/2004
08:10 AM PST

Of course 2 minutes after I post this it'll probably get pushed back...
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post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by iDunno
As someone who ordered a G5 with this card, three weeks ago, I wish they would sort out whatever probs they are facing and just fix the FVCKER!!!! It is panful to have to wait three months for something I have paid in full for.

iDunno.

I thought they couldn't charge you until they shipped the thing.
post #13 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by 1douglask
Well everybody, to guess the NVIDIA card was the problem is not new. Way not new. 1. I give Apple credit for holding off shipping the 30" displays. Good move.

...

The blame game is a waiste of time. Apple is doing very well handling a very serious problem.


ROTFLMAO.....


Best Apple Apologist - EVER!



How's this: Apple shouldn't ------- announce a product and take orders by having only what are effectively just prototypes/early production runs to show, yes, including crucial 3rd party components that it requires. Time and time again they announce things too soon. All they care about is press coverage, customers be damned. JIT manufacturing and low inventories look nice when things are flowing, but this looks idiotic to the rest of the business world.

I'm taking orders on solar powered flying cars now, just having some production problems, we'll work it out soon.
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post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
ROTFLMAO.....


I'm taking orders on solar powered flying cars now, just having some production problems, we'll work it out soon.

Now that is funny. I like these new guys.
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post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by 1douglask
iDunno, I don't know that the language was necessary, kind of childish I think. You and I are frustrated waiting but I believe the people at Apple who have their careers tied up in this or at NVIDIA who know this failure could damage the entire company have a lot more than some cash at risk. I don't want to be the guy at Apple or NVIDIA that gave the go ahead for announcing and production of this. There is no one more interested in getting this resolved more than them! No one! You have to believe that iDunno.

I'm thinking once this is resolved you will see your new Mac in much less than 3 months. It's raining G5's without the 6800's now. It'll rain G5's with the 6800 the minute this snag is fixed. Believe it!

Relax dude... read it again, I was refering to the computer as the fvcker. Not having a go at either company. Because I don't care whose fault it is, just so long as they fix it.

iDunno.
PS. I think a little language is understandable since they were very quick to take my $4909 for a computer they are unable to supply me with. Especially since I am a student and am unable to work from home until I get the G5.
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post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
I thought they couldn't charge you until they shipped the thing.

Am down in Australia, and am going through a third party as they offer a good discount for "key customers" - am getting the G5 with nvidea geforce 6800 ultra ddl for $4909 (this also includes free three year warranty - something Aussie student now have to pay for - so it is cheaper than the student discount by $150) instead of the usual $5335... but you have to pay in full as they are doing a BTO (It sounds dodgy as I type it... but it is legit, they are the company that supplies our school with computers)

iDunno
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post #17 of 35
I just ordered a dual 2.5 with the 6800 ultra (my first Mac) and it's showing as "on or before" 5th November... October is going to be one long month But I knew it would be 4-6 weeks when I ordered it so I don't blame Apple in the slightest...
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
ROTFLMAO.....


How's this: Apple shouldn't ------- announce a product and take orders by having only what are effectively just prototypes/early production runs to show, yes, including crucial 3rd party components that it requires. Time and time again they announce things too soon. All they care about is press coverage, customers be damned. JIT manufacturing and low inventories look nice when things are flowing, but this looks idiotic to the rest of the business world.

But then apple gets slammed for not pre-announcing stuff and letting people know what direction they're going in. Its a double-edged sword. People complain when Apple surprises them with a new computer or display, without any foreknowledge its being released, because they just bought one yesterday and now its outdated. Then people complain when Apple pre-announces products to let people know what's coming, whining they're not available and as such, shouldn't be announced. Make up your damn mind, people! (Oh, and its not like Apple is alone in this realm, EVERYONE pre-announces stuff for next month, next quarter, or even next year).
post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
[snip]I'm taking orders on solar powered flying cars now, just having some production problems, we'll work it out soon.

Do you have a pre-production model you could demo for us?
post #20 of 35
Regardless of who's holding up shipment, Apple is ultimately the one to blame.
In business, customers don't need to know the details of the screw up. It is incumbent on Apple to make sure their suppliers meet deadlines and can deliver on time. There's an old addage that says, you're only as good as your supplier.
If they're incompetent, you look incompetent too.
post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by satchmo
Regardless of who's holding up shipment, Apple is ultimately the one to blame.
In business, customers don't need to know the details of the screw up. It is incumbent on Apple to make sure their suppliers meet deadlines and can deliver on time. There's an old addage that says, you're only as good as your supplier.
If they're incompetent, you look incompetent too.

So tell me Satchmo, is it that your perfect and everything always goes exactly as you planned that you judge Apple or is it that you need to find blame in others to make yourself feel good?
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post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by 1douglask
So tell me Satchmo, is it that your perfect and everything always goes exactly as you planned that you judge Apple or is it that you need to find blame in others to make yourself feel good?

LOL...

Right, we love blaming Apple.

One or 2 delays is expected now and then but Apple makes it an art...

Hardware:
30" Cinema Display - Nvidia (supplier)
iMac G5 - ("...our planning was obviously less than perfect")
Power Mac G5 - IBM's fault... (supplier)
iPod Mini - Hitachi's fault (supplier)
XServe RAID - (unknown reason, probably IBM)
Dual Xserve G5 - (unknown reason, probably IBM)

...others...

Either Apple is being lied to each time by these suppliers (because Apple obviously needs to get credible confirmation from suppliers that they can meet demand before Apple makes an announcement) or else Apple knows about the probable delays but says "screw it, we'll announce and take pre-orders and just blame you guys later". Either they know or they don't know, they're being lied to or are doing the lying. Either/or.

(To change the old phrase sightly) "Dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit" seems Steve's style more than anything else. And I love the guy and the company and the products, it's just out of control now.

I'm still on an iBook out of spite from the time I went to an Apple store with $3000 in my pocket and they had no stock off-the-shelf PowerBooks to sell me. Screw it, I bought a Canon 10D instead...

Calumet and Canon know how to run their businesses.

Pre-announcing so early, to me, just means I automatically don't even think about buying anything new from Apple for at least the first 6 months of a product's life. But by then much of the hype has worn off and I get suddenly content to use the G3 macs I have even longer. Hell, I missed out on the G4 generations for the same reason.
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post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq


One or 2 delays is expected now and then but Apple makes it an art...


They fell so far behind at a few critical times throughout their history it has put a massive damper on their image. Even from within their own user base.
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post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by 1douglask
So tell me Satchmo, is it that your perfect and everything always goes exactly as you planned that you judge Apple or is it that you need to find blame in others to make yourself feel good?


What are you? Twelve years old?
It's not about feeling good blaming Apple (or any company for that matter). In fact, I'm probably the most ardent Apple fan, but I'm certainly not blind to reality.

It's about accepting responsibility as any mature corporation would do. Not crying and pointing fingers everytime you hit a roadbump.
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by satchmo

What are you? Twelve years old?
It's not about feeling good blaming Apple (or any company for that matter). In fact, I'm probably the most ardent Apple fan, but I'm certainly not blind to reality.

It's about accepting responsibility as any mature corporation would do. Not crying and pointing fingers everytime you hit a roadbump.

And I quote you Satchmo: "Apple is ultimately the one to blame."
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post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by 1douglask
1. I give Apple credit for holding off shipping the 30" displays. Good move.

What choice do they have? Ship monitors that are unusable?

Quote:
I am pleased with Apple for having the courage to step back and be honest... [/B]

post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by wilco
What choice do they have? Ship monitors that are unusable?



Actually, they could have. They, from what I understand, had a choice. They didn't ship them. Exactly my point. They did what was right.
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post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by 1douglask
Actually, they could have. They, from what I understand, had a choice. They didn't ship them. Exactly my point. They did what was right.

Are you kidding? Do you really think that shipping unusable monitors is an option? They did the only thing they could possibly do avoid a worse PR hit.
post #29 of 35
As of this afternoon I was advised by my vendor that the 30" display AND the 6800 card were shipping ON OR BEFORE 9/30. (My reseller chose to order my G5 without the 6800 and the display and 6800 separately. They felt I would get the system quicker if the G5 was stock. I trust them 100%)

According to them this date change went from ? to ? weeks to an exact date which indicates, to them, that it will be shipped on or before 9/30.
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post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by wilco
Are you kidding? Do you really think that shipping unusable monitors is an option? They did the only thing they could possibly do avoid a worse PR hit.

No I am not kidding and I agree that it would have been a big PR hit but that does not change the fact that they could have. They could have done a lot of things but stepped back, announced the 10/25 date, a lot farther out than anyone wanted to hear, took the hit and set out to fixing the problem.

They had a problem. No one on this planet wanted to get this fixed more than the people at Apple and NVIDIA. No one. For a corporate crisis Apple handled this well. All the whining won't change that.

NOW, as I stated in my earlier post on this thread, I felt Apple gave them selves "insurance" by going to the 10/25 date so as not to risk moving the date out yet again ( an excellent corporate PR move ). As I just posted my 30" and 6800 are now scheduled for 9/30 or before shipping. They made me happy that I won't have to wait until 10/25 and, in fact, that will be only about 10 days after the ESTIMATED delivery date I was originally promised. Crisis or no crisis I find 10 days after my original ESTIMATED shipping date most satisfactory.
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post #31 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by 1douglask
And I quote you Satchmo: "Apple is ultimately the one to blame."

Yeah....and your point is?
I never denied blaming Apple.
post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq

Hardware:
30" Cinema Display - Nvidia (supplier)
iMac G5 - ("...our planning was obviously less than perfect")
Power Mac G5 - IBM's fault... (supplier)
iPod Mini - Hitachi's fault (supplier)
XServe RAID - (unknown reason, probably IBM)
Dual Xserve G5 - (unknown reason, probably IBM)

What components does Apple produce alone!? Of course its the suppliers that cause delays, but its still Apple's fault. Perhaps they should begin to announce their products when the production ramp has started, and not weeks beforehand
post #33 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Sopphode
What components does Apple produce alone!? Of course its the suppliers that cause delays, but its still Apple's fault. Perhaps they should begin to announce their products when the production ramp has started, and not weeks beforehand

I think they wait to start production so no one can let us Future Hardware fiends know the full details of the new stuff before Steve-O gets to wow us at some press event.

You don't see many other computer companies making the big deal Apple does over new products / product updates. Maybe Dell fans (is there such a thing?) aren't foaming at the mouth waiting for Mikey to spill his guts on the latest Inspiron update.
post #34 of 35
The problem, I think, is that Steve thinks he's got the power to make suppliers do what he wants. He'll announce something way ahead of time to put pressure on the suppliers to deliver but it almost always backfires. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the suppliers weren't delaying the Mac components on purpose just to spite Steve.

When ATI announced their new card a few days before a certain keynote we won't mention, Steve, in his fury, decided to not ship the card to 'punish' ATI. But who is he really punishing? ATI must have been laughing its ass off. Sure, they might have lost a bit of money...but nothing compared to Apple who probably had to remove all the ATI cards from its almost-shipping Macs, and replace the cards with another card. Change all the ads that had any mention of the ATI card.

But that's not all...Apple probably lost more money than ATI but also customer respect. Apple was essentially punishing its customers by downgrading the video card.

Apple only has ~3% marketshare...I think its safe to say the suppliers have the power over Apple. Steve should get off his high horse and back to reality.

Steve has got to stop pre-announcing products the way he does. I thought Apple was all about secrecy nowadays...why not go all the way and not announce the product until its fuckin' shipped.
post #35 of 35
So do we have any idea on when this card will be released yet?

iDunno
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