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M. Moore is a cunning fat bugger.

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
Moore is not entering F9/11 in the best documentary catagory in order to get F9/11 on to TV screens across America prior to the election. Clever move. Moore instead is entering the best film catagory.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...9&section=news
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post #2 of 31
There was never any doubt that F9/11 was going to hit video store shelves before the election. The release date of the film for theatrical distribution put it in the ideal distribution schematic to roll out it's video release right on time.

However, I don't know if I'd give Moore all the credit for this maneuver. The Weinstein's are geniuses in film marketing. Plus I'm pretty sure they're Democratic supporters who back Kerry (assumption based on their religion, geographical region, and industry affiliation). They knew exactly what they were doing when they bought the negative back from Disney.

The next election cycle should be interesting. F9/11 has set a precedent. And since Republicans are the masters at media manipulation, it will be fascinating to see what propaganda films they manufacture in the future. Will Democrats be able to tap into Hollywood's sympathies to support Democratic candidates and take full advantage of the movie-making machine? Will GOP mastery of creating something out of nothing trump the Dems like they usually do?

Who knows? But it will be fun to watch.
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post #3 of 31
Hollywood is the last stand for media. Perhaps video games as well, but they're not very political. If Hollywood swings right it'll be a very scary time indeed.

I want the newspapers back on the left.
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post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Hollywood is the last stand for media. Perhaps video games as well, but they're not very political. If Hollywood swings right it'll be a very scary time indeed.

I want the newspapers back on the left.

Shit, I'd like any major media outlet that has a large circulation or audience back on the left. The Republicans have the entire media running scared of being labeled "liberal". Sure, I love the liberal magazines and online trades, but their circulation numbers are miniscule compared to the big papers and news networks.

I want a major news network that simply refuses to budge from their liberal filter in the same way Fox refuses to budge from theirs. Because everyone else is too consumed with avoiding the "liberal" label while Fox embraces their conservative one.

Michael Moore has been hitting the media hard with his follow questions. He's been very critical of the media's role in the run up to war. And for good reason.

On a side note, isn't it funny that the very same Republicans that are whining that Swift Boat Vets are not getting a fair shake in the media are the very same Republicans who actively tried to suppress F9/11 from being released. Funny, isn't it?
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post #5 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Moore is not entering F9/11 in the best documentary catagory in order to get F9/11 on to TV screens across America prior to the election. Clever move. Moore instead is entering the best film catagory.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...9&section=news

Be kind of hard to call it a documentary, being it's largley a work of fiction!


(ie, few actual facts. And no, I don't like Bush and I'm not trolling...)
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #6 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by iPoster
Be kind of hard to call it a documentary, being it's largley a work of fiction!


(ie, few actual facts. And no, I don't like Bush and I'm not trolling...)

Fiction? Name one thing in that movie that is fiction (ie. a lie).
post #7 of 31
Too bad most americans hate Moore. This will only help Bush. After americans throw a brick into their TeeVee after seeing Moore's hatefest they wont vote for Kerry if Democrats paid homeless people cigarettes to for them.
post #8 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Too bad most americans hate Moore. This will only help Bush. After americans throw a brick into their TeeVee after seeing Moore's hatefest they wont vote for Kerry if Democrats paid homeless people cigarettes to for them.

When you wish upon a star
Makes no difference who you are
Anything your heart desires
Will come to you

If your heart is in your dream
No request is too extreme
When you wish upon a star
As dreamers do

Fate is kind
She brings to those to love
The sweet fulfillment of
Their secret longing

Like a bolt out of the blue
Fate steps in and sees you through
When you wish upon a star
Your dreams come true




_
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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post #9 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Fiction? Name one thing in that movie that is fiction (ie. a lie).

You can start here...
Or here...

Not to say it's completely void of facts, but to say Moore is a fair and balanced film-maker is like saying Rush is a moderate talk show host. That movie is pure political propoganda disguised as a 'documentary'.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by iPoster
You can start here...
Or here...

Not to say it's completely void of facts, but to say Moore is a fair and balanced film-maker is like saying Rush is a moderate talk show host. That movie is pure political propoganda disguised as a 'documentary'.

Here is a line-by-line factual backup of F911.

There are no "lies" in F911. Infact, none of the websites you linked above actually show there are any lies. They only prove the logical law that implications based on false premises are always true.

Also, no one claimed Moore is "fair and balanced". He doesn't claim so himself.
post #11 of 31
post #12 of 31
post #13 of 31
This is by far one of the best criticisms of Moore I've ever read. It shows that Moore is without a point other than to be against Bush. He (moore) goes in so many different directions in his attempt to get Bush that he contradicts himself and in the end has nothing to say.


Unfairenheit 9/11
The lies of Michael Moore.

By Christopher Hitchens
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Moore is not entering F9/11 in the best documentary catagory in order to get F9/11 on to TV screens across America prior to the election. Clever move. Moore instead is entering the best film catagory.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...9&section=news

political issues aside I thought the film as a film itself was shit. Looked like shit, made like shit, written like shit. Moore may make controversial films, he may garner a lot of attention and he may convince the convinced but he does not make great films....documentary or not.
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
This is by far one of the best criticisms of [myself] I've ever read. It shows that [I am] without a point other than to be against [Kerry]. [I (Scott) go] in so many different directions in [my] attempt to get [Kerry] that [I] contradicts [my]self and in the end [have] nothing to say.

Except that the things Moore says against Bush are basically all true.

As opposed to...

"There's no doubt in my mind that Kerry stretched the truth wrt to the medals. I can't prove it but his actions after the war are clear." - Scott

This is not a lie, but is an attempt at presenting opinion as fact.

"Kerry testified to things that he did not have first hand knowledge of and pushed beyond being colorful." - Scott

This is a lie, because it's been proven over and over again that Kerry presented the testimony of others, and did not falsely testify to anything himself.

"You'd have to be a moran to vote for Kerry." - Scott

That's certainly more intelligent than anything Moore has to say...

"What? Bush avoided serving in Vietnam and Kerry tried to avoid serving in Vietnam but couldn't?" - Scott

This is one of the most idiotic statements I've ever seen. Kerry tried to avoid serving by enlisting voluntarily?

"He requested swift boat duty because at the time swift boats had easy duty and were not very involved in the war. He wanted to avoid the fighting." - Scott

Pure unsubstantiated opinion presented as fact.

"Kerry just want [sic] to cut and run."

Again. Pure conjecture. I've never seen Michael Moore make any unsubstantiated predictions like this.

Anyway, I could go on and on, and while Scott keeps spewing off his anti-Kerry half-truths and lies, he criticizes Moore for doing much less, but in a more public forum.

Practice what you preach.
post #16 of 31
scott of course michael moore isn't "fair and balanced" you dumbass. Did we berate Rush Limbaugh for not being "fair and balanced"!?

Now, there is a news channel that makes that claim...I call it Faux News
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post #17 of 31
What spin might Neocons produce?

Did you miss FOX's reinterpretation of the Pentagon's creative fiction called The Jessica Lynch Story.

I'm sure you'll find it on the shelves next to Moore's Academy Award winner... or nominees... or independent classics... or movies of the week... or b-grade schlock... or other respectable historical fiction... or just plain fiction... or maybe that holiday video of the log burning.
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post #18 of 31
People like Moore appeal only to the left that already hates Bush. His movie accomplishes nothing more than insuring his supply of Twinkies and Doritos for the next 6 months.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
People like Moore appeal only to the left that already hates Bush. His movie accomplishes nothing more than insuring his supply of Twinkies and Doritos for the next 6 months.

Do you believe Rush Limbaugh "hates" liberals? Do you believe Sean Hannity "hates" Democrats? Do you believe Mike Savage "hates" lefties?

I do. The evidence is empirical.

And they spew their hate every morning for three to four hours daily.

Michael Moore made ONE movie.

Oh, and I'm sure Rush Limbaugh is FAR wealthier than Michael Moore is and it certainly insures his supply of oxy-contin.
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post #20 of 31
Isn't it funny that guys like Scott were fire-bombing Michael Moore for weeks before F9/11 came out, supported the censorship of the film, bullied theater chains from screening prints, etc.

And then they all act incensed with their fake outrage when liberals complain that the Swift Boat Veterans are lying.

They decry insensitivity to our war heroes and veterans.

And then wear purple heart bandaids at the RNC.

They bitch and complain about "hate" coming from the left.

And then put on the biggest hate-fest in decades at their convention.

They get all up in arms about Hitler references.

Yet fall silent when Bill O'Reilly, Brit Hume, Sean Hannity and Mike Savidge refer to Democrat propaganda of something straight out of Goebbels.
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post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Isn't it funny that guys like Scott were fire-bombing Michael Moore for weeks before F9/11 came out, supported the censorship of the film, bullied theater chains from screening prints, etc.

I never supported the censorship of the film.
post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I never supported the censorship of the film.

... but the rest of your post was absolutely on the money.
meh
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meh
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post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
...
"You'd have to be a moran to vote for Kerry." - Scott

That's certainly more intelligent than anything Moore has to say...
...


You don't get the joke do you?



Rock and roll baby, freedom of speech!
post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
...

"He requested swift boat duty because at the time swift boats had easy duty and were not very involved in the war. He wanted to avoid the fighting." - Scott

Pure unsubstantiated opinion presented as fact.

...


Read here.

Quote:
When Kerry signed up to command a Swift boat in the summer of 1968, he was inspired by the example of his hero, John F. Kennedy, who had commanded the PT-109 patrol boat in the Pacific in World War II. But Kerry had little expectation of seeing serious action. At the time the Swift boats -- or PCFs (patrol craft fast), in Navy jargon -- were largely restricted to coastal patrols. "I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry wrote in a book of war reminiscences published in 1986.
post #25 of 31
Where Was George?
Or any other Chickenhawk?
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post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by curiousuburb
Where Was George?
Or any other Chickenhawk?

Bravely defending the Texas skies against all those North Vietnamese air raids.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #27 of 31
My point Northgate is that Moore's film will change noones mind about the election. It is just a rally point for the leftist Bush haters. What do Rush and Sean and Mike Savage have to do with this?
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post #28 of 31
How many here have seen the film?

1
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post #29 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
How many here have seen the film?

1

With firm opinion like that he must've seen it, oh, zero times.
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post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
My point Northgate is that Moore's film will change noones mind about the election.

Well Clinton hater I have some news for you. F9/11 is changing minds:

A famous Republican pollster recently told Michael Moore the following:

Quote:
He told me how he had conducted an informal poll with "Fahrenheit 9/11" audiences in three different cities and the results were all the same. "Essentially, 80% of the people going IN to see your movie are already likely Kerry voters and the movie has galvanized them in a way you rarely see Democrats galvanized.

"But, here's the bad news for Bush: Though 80% going IN to your movie are Kerry voters, 100% of those COMING OUT of your movie are Kerry voters. You can't come out of this movie and say, 'I am absolutely and enthusiastically voting for George W. Bush.'"

His findings are similar to those in other polls conducted around the country. In Pennsylvania, a Keystone poll showed that 4% of Kerry's support has come from people who decided to vote for him AFTER seeing "Fahrenheit 9/11" -- and in an election that will be very close, 4% is a landslide. A Harris poll found that 44% of Republicans who see the film give it a positive rating. Another poll, to be released this week, shows a 21-point shift in Bush's approval rating, after just one viewing of the movie, among audiences of undecideds who were shown "Fahrenheit 9/11" in Ohio.

My pollster friend told me that he believes if Kerry wins, "Fahrenheit 9/11" will be one of the top three reasons for his election. Kerry's only problem, he said, is how many people will actually be able to see it before election day. The less that see it, the better for Bush.

My point about Limbaugh, Hannity and Savage is that they too have an impact on the electorate. And they have a microphone on for several hours EVERY DAY. And they are even better at spin and innuendo than Michael Moore could ever dream of being. And yes, they are the original "haters" of democracy and free elections.
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post #31 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
How many here have seen the film?

1

I've seen it twice. Almost everyone here at the office has seen it or plans on seeing it on DVD in October.
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