or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Diebold is getting its just desserts.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Diebold is getting its just desserts.

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Well guys and dolls, Diebold is being sued by Cal-ee-for-ne-ya (my best phonetical spelling of Arnold speak).

What's significant about this IMO is that the lawsuit is due to false claims of accuracy and security.

Hopefully other states will follow and these things will get repaired or dropped as a means of voting by November.

Enjoy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #2 of 14
Kind of stupid IMO. When you buy something like that you should come up with a specification for the machine and then test the shipped product to see of it meets the spec'. If California didn't do that who's to blame?

Quote:
Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has said Diebold deceived California with aggressive marketing that led to the installation of touch-screen voting systems that were not tested or approved nationally or in California.

post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Kind of stupid IMO. When you buy something like that you should come up with a specification for the machine and then test the shipped product to see of it meets the spec'. If California didn't do that who's to blame?


http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Storie...095811,00.html

Diebold are to blame. It's difficult to test the shipped product when the vendor has over-promised and can't deliver working hardware and bug-free software on time to test it beforehand.

Some additional reading:

http://www.house.gov/kucinich/issues/voting.htm

Scroll down, and read the Diebold memos.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
post #4 of 14
Well then they shouldn't use it. I work in a hospital and the stuff we buy isn't used until it is both "accepted" and "commissioned". Acceptance testing is done with the buyer and seller to determine that the equipment installed meets the specs in the contract. Commissioning determines that the equipment can be used error free for what its needed for.


If CA bought it and didn't test it, it is their own fault. You get shitty service from your government and it must be the corporations fault.
post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Well then they shouldn't use it. I work in a hospital and the stuff we buy isn't used until it is both "accepted" and "commissioned". Acceptance testing is done with the buyer and seller to determine that the equipment installed meets the specs in the contract. Commissioning determines that the equipment can be used error free for what its needed for.


If CA bought it and didn't test it, it is their own fault. You get shitty service from your government and it must be the corporations fault.



It's California's fault that Diebold's systems don't work. Way to shift that blame!
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #6 of 14
Scott does have a legit point, despite the fact that no one listens here. Who knows, if people can look beyond simple black and white for once, maybe we might learn something, expand out minds and maybe even start a discussion!
post #7 of 14
Jesus christ people is it that fvcking hard to be honest about the situation?

Diebold sold equipment that did not work as they advertised. They are wrong.

California installed equipment without testing it thoroughly. They are also wrong.


Sounds like some shared liability to me.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #8 of 14
Sounds like some FUshiite to me

unless you happen to be a Republican and know how Diebold is gonna win it 'for us in November'

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Kind of stupid IMO. When you buy something like that you should come up with a specification for the machine and then test the shipped product to see of it meets the spec'. If California didn't do that who's to blame?

Do you really know that California didn't provide specifications to Diebold? I don't know if they did or didn't, and I suspect that you don't either.

At any rate, rather than dealing with the a stupid oversimplification of either/or blame, let's look at who deserves the greatest blame here.

Provided to Diebold or not, I think fairly obvious specifications for voting machines, include, oh, I don't know... that they accurately record votes and are strongly resistant to tampering. Are you saying that in the absence of such specifications that Diebold can legitimately claim, "Oh! Gosh, sorry! We thought you wanted the inaccurate, easily-hacked kind of voting machines! Why didn't you say you wanted the reliable, accurate, tamper-resistant sort of machines in the first place?"

As for testing the equipment... well, since CA hasn't used these voting machines in an election yet AFAIK, and they are now reporting problems with the equipment before using them in the upcoming election, one might conclude that someone in CA is, um what's the word? testing yeah, that's it! One might conclude that someone is indeed testing those Diebold voting machines, huh?

If they're just getting around to this testing, the CA officials in charge of the task might be worthy of blame for waiting so long to get around to doing their work, but that would only put partial blame on CA. Diebold would still be, however, worthy of the lion's share of blame here for providing such shoddy (or rigged?) equipment.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #10 of 14
They shouldn't have paid for them if they don't meet the spec'.
post #11 of 14
The definitive websites for all things DRE:

http://www.blackboxvoting.org
http://www.verifiedvoting.org
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
They shouldn't have paid for them if they don't meet the spec'.

Does this shift the largest share of blame to CA? (If you ever bother with such subtle nuances as "share of blame", that is.) Does this shift all blame to CA in your mind, making Diebold blameless? They paid for the stuff without checking it out thoroughly enough (as if you know anything about how payments and deliveries and testing were scheduled), therefore it's all their fault?

I get the impression that you subscribe to a "suckers get what they deserve!" philosophy of life, where anyone who is swindled or cheated or sold substandard goods is the culprit for any failure to cover his own ass, with little or no blame due to swindlers and cheaters and suppliers of shoddy goods.

At least I get the impression that would be the philosophy you subscribe to when it's convenient for you to do so, when you can happily crow about harm to someone you don't like, but that you'd be screaming bloody murder whenever you or your interests were at stake.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
They shouldn't have paid for them if they don't meet the spec'.

<6 months ago.>

Hey, Scott. I want a program that writes glib one line responses to random threads. It seems that you're the one to do that for me.

What was that? You want $1,000,000 to write the program - half now and half upon completion?

Ok. Sounds good. Keep in mind I need this completed before September 8th of this year. This is REALLY important, so that I can test the software before unleashing it.

<2 months pass>

Glad to hear everything is well ahead of schedule. Thanks for the update.

<4 months pass>

Are we still going to be ready for Sept. 8th? We are? Excellent.

<It's now Sept. 8th.>

Thanks for finally coming through and delivering the software this morning. I wish you hadn't lied continually about your capabilities to write and deliver in a timely manner, though.

Hmm.

It seems that your software is faulty. Look how long my post is! It's far exceeding the one line limit that I asked for, and it hasn't accused anyone of being anti-something.

You didn't provide what we agreed to in our contract. Our contract was clear that I needed the completed (and functional) software before today. Can I have my down-payment back, please?

No?

See you in court.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Ahhh, reading this post one thing--one song-- began running through my head. Here it is appropriately modified.

Sheila: Times have changed
Our kids are kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?
Sheila: No, blame California
Everyone: Blame California
Sheila: With all their beady little eyes
And flappin' heads so full of lies
Everyone: Blame California
Blame California
Sheila: We need to form a full assault
Everyone: It's California's fault!
Sharon: Don't blame me
For my son Stan
He saw the darn cartoon
And now he's off to join the Klan!
Liane: And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he tells me to fuck myself!
Sheila: Well, blame California
Everyone: Blame California
It seems that everything's gone wrong
Since California came along
Everyone: Blame California
Blame California
Copy Guy: They're not even a real country anyway
Ms. McCormick: My son could've been a doctor or a lawyer, it's a-true
Instead he burned up like a piggy on a barbecue
Everyone: Should we blame the matches?
Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed him to expire?
Sheila: Heck no!
Everyone: Blame California
Blame California
Sheila: With all their hockey hubbabaloo
Liane: And that bitch Anne Murray too
Everyone: Blame California
Shame on California
The smut we must stop
The trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before someone thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus

Why blame the manufacturer for not delivering the equipment as ordered? Why blame the manufacturer for delivering equipment that didn't even meet state/federal election laws (uncertified software was installed by the manufacturer) Blame California!!!
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Diebold is getting its just desserts.