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Another leftist attack bites the dust? - Page 4

post #121 of 278
Could a moderator...it worked! We're off that f-ed up page.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #122 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
So to summarize, you don't say the memos are fakes, just that the people saying they are fakes are incredible liars, hypocrits, not educated, lack expertise, etc.

The real professionals take the exact opposite position of you. They really don't care who brought up that the memos were fakes. They look at the memos and render a decision. Their decision has been uniform. The one Boston Globe expert was basically expressing a possibility and had it quoted as confirmation.

Quote:
Congrats, trumpt! You officially get the prize for most contorted attempt at saving face.

Oh, and let me fix that for you:

This is a more accurate summary.

BTW, I still can't decide. I'm leaning toward unfuckingbelievable.

So in a thread where you've said I must be on drugs and that my posts are "utter horseshit," you have the gall to accuse me of attacking the messenger. You are unreal.

And your "message" is exactly what got attacked and disproved. Guess what, trumpt. No kerning on the memo, contrary to what you were trying to BS here. Next time, don't try to play an expert on something you've never even used. [/B]

Hahahaha



Same shit, different day.

Actually what I've proved is that you will attempt, again and againt to claim expertise but will never step up to the plate and admit that you have none. You have been totally revealed as someone who has no expertise and who enjoys attempting to claim some.

BTW, talk about not distorting the point. Find for me, where I said there was kerning in the memo. All that discussion was generated by Groverat with the following post.

Quote:
Speaking as a journalism major with a metric assload of course hours in print... there is no way to say these are forgeries from where we sit and there is no way these were made in Word.

To mess with the kerning and tracking enough in Word to make that document look the way it does (just look at the "18", that tells you immediately this was not likely produced by a word processor) would point to some big freaking idiots doing it. If you are going to do that, use better software, play on the safe side, use no superscript.

All that led to a discussion about whether or not a typewriter could be properly emulated and using what variables. My only contention was that you could create a font that would emulate a poorly serviced typewriter. I did not claim that such a font had been used in the creation of these documents.

So what you have disproven is nothing. I simply did to you, what you do to others. I asked you to prove your expertise and stop attacking the messanger while avoiding the message.

I've proven quite clearly that...

One, you have or will not state any credentials for expertise.

Two, you have not and will not address the question of whether these memos are forged or not.

Three, you attack the expertise of the messanger in an attempt to discredit the message.

Four, that anyone with real credentials would act as a professional and not exhibit the behavior demonstrated in 1,2 and 3.

Thanks for proving all my points for me.

Care to state your credenials yet? Care to state an opinion on the memos being forgeries? Care to stop attacking me so that you can avoid addressing the first two questions?

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #123 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Same shit, different day.

Isn't is just the same Sunday morning that it was when you two decided to piss all over one another?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #124 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Trumptman
Find for me, where I said there was kerning in the memo.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
You know that there is no kerning on it if it's a word document, don't you?

Originally posted by trumptman
Don't you mean a plain text document? Any Microsoft Word document displayed in MS Word does use the kerning built into the font. Are you honestly claiming that Word cannot display proportionally spaced text?

You clearly stated it, and you were clearly wrong. Kerning was not used in the memos (and tracking isn't kerning).

and the post continues:
Quote:
Put up or shut up. You have no credibility. Everything you've claimed on this topic is utter horseshit. People are posting graphics from sites where people quite easily recreated these memos using nothing more than Microsoft Word. Something you claimed was utterly impossible. You also claimed it would require a custom hand designed font and a page layout program.

I never said these memos couldn't be created in microsoft word, I said that that emulating a "poorly serviced typewriter" (your description) was not something one would do with a simple word processor because it can't be made to look real. In fact, I wrote a long post on why I think so. It's actually fundamentally the same argument put out when attacking the memos as forgeries.
Quote:
Meanwhile everyone and their grandmother has been able to retype the memo, run it through a photocopier for about 10 generations and have it show up looking exactly the same. They've been able to take the first generation and superimpose it on top of the CBS memos and have it look exactly the same. The various news services challenging this have had NAMED experts in their field state their opinion which by the way, happens to be the exact opposite of yours.

Again, contrary to your contorted backtracking attempt, it's crystal clear you are running on the assumption that just because I'm pointing out your dishonesty I automatically think the memos are not forgeries.
post #125 of 278
I have 5 dollars that says trumpt will start arguing that the memos are real if I say they are forged.
post #126 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Originally posted by trumptman
Don't you mean a plain text document? Any Microsoft Word document displayed in MS Word does use the kerning built into the font. Are you honestly claiming that Word cannot display proportionally spaced text?


Quote:
[You clearly stated it, and you were clearly wrong. Kerning was not used in the memos (and tracking isn't kerning).

and the post continues:

I never said these memos couldn't be created in microsoft word, I said that that emulating a "poorly serviced typewriter" (your description) was not something one would do with a simple word processor because it can't be made to look real. In fact, I wrote a long post on why I think so. It's actually fundamentally the same argument put out when attacking the memos as forgeries.

Again, contrary to your contorted backtracking attempt, it's crystal clear you are running on the assumption that just because I'm pointing out your dishonesty I automatically think the memos are not forgeries.

You made a claim about Word. I addressed the claim about Word.

So sad for you. You did this exact thing when you were trying to make claims that I had bragged about my networth. Again, all I am addressing there is a claim about Microsoft Word. I've not made any claim about this document and kerning so you try linking it to a question about what MS Word can and cannot do. I even asked if you were talking about a plain text document and asked you to clarify what it was you were claiming Word could and could not do. It falls right in line with the original discussion about Grove claiming that MS Word could not have created this document.

Now, here's what I will bet $10 dollars on.

That you will never answer these questions.

Will you to state your credenials yet? Will you state an opinion on the memos being forgeries? Will you to stop attacking me so that you can avoid addressing the first two questions?

My bet is no on all three.

<--- I'd be laughing all the way to the bank.
Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #127 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Will you to state your credenials yet?

I have a master's degree in kerning. My thesis was on MS Word checkboxes.
Quote:
Will you state an opinion on the memos being forgeries?

You mean the opinion I expressed a page or two back?
Quote:
Will you to stop attacking me so that you can avoid addressing the first two questions?

I won't answer this one. Buy the wife something nice.
post #128 of 278
post #129 of 278
Quote:

Weird. That "blog" only has one entry. And it's about kerning.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #130 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Weird. That "blog" only has one entry. And it's about kerning.

He doesn't usually do it either
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #131 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Weird. That "blog" only has one entry. And it's about kerning.

Oh wait. It's a woman with a BS in computer science.

Why are we reading her, again?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #132 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Oh wait. It's a woman with a BS in computer science.

Why are we reading her, again?


BSc.

post #133 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
BSc.


OK. My bad.

I say again, WHERE ARE THE EXPERTS?!!?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #134 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Weird. That "blog" only has one entry. And it's about kerning.

?

http://aclearvoice.org/tiki-stats.php
post #135 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
OK. My bad.

I say again, WHERE ARE THE EXPERTS?!!?


Enjoying the weekend?
post #136 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
?

http://aclearvoice.org/tiki-stats.php

So it's been online for 2 days? And the person writing it isn't the person who owns the blog. And the person who's got the ONE post up there isn't an expert in forensic typography.

And yeah. I'm having a pretty good weekend, although at the moment I'm grading and am desperately looking for any distraction I can find.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #137 of 278
I posted an enlarged image of the memo earlier. Why do you need anyone to tell you what your eyes can see for themselves?

post #138 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
I posted an enlarged image of the memo earlier. Why do you need anyone to tell you what your eyes can see for themselves?


1) There is nothing remarkable in Word's ability to print things out, nor is it surprising that Word can print things out that look like text produced on a typewriter from the 70s.

2) A layman's eyes and an expert's eyes are different. This is why I am not in charge of reading keyhole satellite photos.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #139 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
1) There is nothing remarkable in Word's ability to print things out, nor is it surprising that Word can print things out that look like text produced on a typewriter from the 70s.

2) A layman's eyes and an expert's eyes are different. This is why I am not in charge of reading keyhole satellite photos.



Yes. But now that we all know what kerning is and how it works using software like MS Word -- and we know that no such kerning could have existed on memos typed using mechanical typewriters of the 1970's -- it's fairly easy for even us simpletons to draw conclusions based on the images presented. No?
post #140 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Yes. But now that we all know what kerning is and how it works using software like MS Word -- and we know that no such kerning could have existed on memos typed using mechanical typewriters of the 1970's -- it's fairly easy for even us simpletons to draw conclusions based on the images presented. No?

Sure. The problem is that simpletons, myself included, often draw the wrong conclusions.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #141 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Sure. The problem is that simpletons, myself included, often draw the wrong conclusions.


Of course. And that's why we need Big Brother to help us draw the right conclusions.
post #142 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Of course. And that's why we need Big Brother to help us draw the right conclusions.

yeah or at least someone from the Kerry campaign.
post #143 of 278
The. Documents. Are. Not. Forgeries.

George Bush really was a millionaire's playboy son. He really did do the bare minimum he could. He really was off his face on coke and booze for years.

Heavens to Betsy.
post #144 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
The. Documents. Are. Not. Forgeries.

George Bush really was a millionaire's playboy son. He really did do the bare minimum he could. He really was off his face on coke and booze for years.

Heavens to Betsy.

There's actually a term for what's going on here among the right-wingers: cognitive dissonance.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #145 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
The. Documents. Are. Not. Forgeries.

George Bush really was a millionaire's playboy son. He really did do the bare minimum he could. He really was off his face on coke and booze for years.

Heavens to Betsy.

You see, the democrats have been stooping so low for sw long it completely removes any shock value from any of the so called discoveries or revelations and everything looks like a setup.

Bad planning or maybe simply out of touch. Who knows.
post #146 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
There's actually a term for what's going on here among the right-wingers: cognitive dissonance.

It's called winning in the arena of ideas and public opinion.

But I am afraid that many people in politics suffer from that ailment.
post #147 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Of course. And that's why we need Big Brother to help us draw the right conclusions.


post #148 of 278
Heh. Well, if these are fake (and I don't have an opinion either way), I hope that this will be the kind of foot up the ass of the press that they've needed for years now.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #149 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Heh. Well, if these are fake (and I don't have an opinion either way), I hope that this will be the kind of foot up the ass of the press that they've needed for years now.

Agreed.
post #150 of 278
The general public is in danger of loosing interest before there is a definitive judgement on these documents. In terms of marketing strategy, these memos might as well be printed on the backs of the 9/11 comission findings.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #151 of 278
oops!!!! I misspelled commission!


mea culpa:


Main Entry: 1comĀ·misĀ·sion __ Pronunciation_Guide
Pronunciation: kmishn
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: Middle English commissioun, from Middle French commission, from Latin commission-, commissio act of bringing together, committing, from commissus + -ion-, -io -ion
1 a : a formal written warrant or authority granting certain powers or privileges and authorizing or commanding the performance of certain acts or duties <whil'st our commission from Rome is read, let silence be commanded -- Shakespeare> <a commission jail delivery issued by the court> <a commission to serve as notary public> b obsolete : a warrant conferring authority to raise and command a body of troops c : a certificate conferring military or naval rank and authority on officers above a certain rank; also : the rank and command so conferred d : a document issued to a lay worker in the Salvation Army who undertakes certain duties
2 a : an authorization or command to act in a prescribed manner or to perform prescribed acts or duties : INSTRUCTION, CHARGE <the priest was a custodian of Christ's commission to his apostles. "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them" -- M.W.Baldwin> b : an order to perform a particular task or carry out a work <provide a young painter with a profitable commission for a portrait>
3 a : authority to act for, in behalf of, or in place of another <had summoned all the clans which acknowledged his commission -- T.B.Macaulay> b : a task or matter entrusted to one as agent for another <executed a commission for me while he was in Singapore>
4 a : a group of persons directed to perform some duty or execute some trust : a body of commissioners <U.N. commission to investigate differences between the two countries> b : a government agency having administrative, legislative, or judicial powers <regulatory powers exercised by the Federal Trade Commission> c : a city council having legislative and executive functions -- see COMMISSION PLAN
5 : the act of committing , performing, or doing (as a crime, misdeed, or other offense) <the commission of an illegal act> <the sins of omission and commission>
6 : a fee paid to an agent or employee for transacting a piece of business or performing a service <a broker receives a commission on each share of stock bought for a customer> <a commission of 50 cents for each car washed>; especially : a percentage of the money received in a sale or other transaction paid to the agent responsible for the business <a commission of 9 percent on each sale> -- see DEL CREDERE
7 : the act of entrusting, committing , or giving authority <the commission of limited powers to the administrator>
- in commission 1 obsolete : in the exercise of an authority or the performance of an authorized or delegated act <the Moor himself ... is in full commission here for Cyprus -- Shakespeare> 2 or into commission of an office or public trust : under the authority of a commission or commissioners (as during the abeyance of the incumbent) <to usurp to itself the executive power of the king and in effect to put the kingship into commission -- S.B.Chrimes> 3 of a ship : equipped, manned, and under command in readiness for active service <warships will remain in commission when not refitting> 4 : in use or service or in condition for service <put the old car back in commission for a time>
- on commission : with commissions serving as partial or full remuneration for work or services performed <selling bonds on commission>
- out of commission 1 : out of or retired from active service <the ship was placed out of commission after the war> 2 : out of order : not in working order : not in use or operation <the bicycle is out of commission> <the ... strike ... put Alaska's principal ship line out of commission -- New York Times>

Citation format for this entry:

"commission." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (12 Sep. 2004).


_
_

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #152 of 278
Quote:

Actually giant's not full of it. You know that picture you posted earlier? This one:



Done without kerning. The little green footballs word doc: no kerning. In fact, if you grab it and throw kerning on, you see that the Y and A in CYA are too close together.

Don't believe me? Download the word doc used above:
http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/18-August-1973.doc

Note the lack of kerning, then sit down and apologize, mika. You are wrong yet again.
post #153 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I say again, WHERE ARE THE EXPERTS?!!?

Apparently not at that blog.
post #154 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by giant


Done without kerning. The little green footballs word doc: no kerning. In fact, if you grab it and throw kerning on, you see that the Y and A in CYA are too close together.

Note the lack of kerning, then sit down and apologize, mika. You are wrong yet again.


Not at all.


Some have argued that the documents are forgeries because the characters are kerned. Kerning is an operation which tucks characters together to compact space. However, Microsoft Word by default does not kern text. The text of the memo is not kerned. Kerning is a pairwise operation between characters, and each character pair that can be kerned has a specified kerning value. Microsoft fonts and many others come with accompanying kerning data. But kerning is complex, and computationally expensive, and therefore would have slowed down redisplay in a WYSIWYG editor. However, Times New Roman uses a characteristic of Microsoft TrueType fonts called the ABC dimensions, where the C dimension is the offset from the right edge of the bounding box of the character to the next character. If this offset is negative, the character with the negative C offset will overlap the character which follows (in some technologies, the distance from the start of one character to the start of another is called the escapement, so a negative C offset gives an escapement which is less than the character width). This gives the illusion of kerning, or what I sometimes call pseudo-kerning. I discuss the ABC width mechanism in some detail in a book I wrote in 1997
post #155 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Not at all.

The text of the memo is not kerned. [emphasis in original]

Exactly.
post #156 of 278
This gives the illusion of kerning, or what I sometimes call pseudo-kerning. I discuss the ABC width mechanism in some detail in a book I wrote in 1997
post #157 of 278
Seems like the fake memos produced by Bolshevik criminals at the Communist Broadcasting System could only have been made with MS Word.
post #158 of 278
Do you think it makes you less wrong to make it bigger?

same source, flounder.com:
Quote:
The text of the memo is not kerned. [emphasis in original]

If you want to argue about the other features of the text, do so with someone else.
post #159 of 278
Is the sky really blue?
post #160 of 278
Is the thread starter and previous poster really the same person? I know: Let's ask Mika!
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