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Real proof that Bush has lied to the American people.

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
From this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Sep11.html

Quote:
The White House now says that Bush left Texas, where he was first assigned when he joined the Air National Guard, for Alabama in the spring of 1972 because his priorities changed and he wanted to work in the political campaign of a family friend, Winton "Red" Blount, who was running for the U.S. Senate.

But in his 1999 autobiography, Bush omits mention of his suspension from flight status. He says only that "I continued flying with my unit for the next several years" after being turned down in 1970 for a program known as "Palace Alert" that might have taken him to Vietnam.

White House spokesmen said there was no point in Bush taking his required pilot's physical in 1972 because he had already decided to move to Alabama, where there were no F-102 planes. To fly another plane, he would have had to undergo extensive retraining.

Whatever Bush's reasons for failing to take the physical, he seems to have put in minimal service at best in Alabama. According to his official personnel records, made public by the White House and the Pentagon, he failed to show for any drills between May and October 1972, even though Air Force regulations required him to attend 90 percent of scheduled drills, barring events "beyond his control."

Others who have posted to this forum have called Kerry a liar because of information found in his biography--information never disproven BTW. Well race fans, boys and girls, guys and dolls, or whatever you like Bush lied to us and the proof is in the quote. He did not serve as his biography once proclaimed. Documents--excluding the memo's-- tell the truth. Bush is a liar. If he's willing to lie about his military experiences then I wonder if he'd be willing to lie about Iraq and WMD? Just a thought.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #2 of 38
Unfortunately for you that it appears that Kerry will in fact lose this election. The forthcoming debates are just too structured for any surprises, and the prez will simply prepare enough to answer any issue adequately. The democrats must win the Senate races, and I'm surpised that people donated a quarter of a billion to Kerry when the Senate races are something to actually win.

Regarding lying, it's a bit shocking that the Kerry Silver Star is a Category V counterfeit. Maybe one of his Yale Skull and Bones buddies was running the medals office at the time:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect...ws-lips27.html
post #3 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by mugwump
Unfortunately for you that it appears that Kerry will in fact lose this election. The forthcoming debates are just too structured for any surprises, and the prez will simply prepare enough to answer any issue adequately. The democrats must win the Senate races, and I'm surpised that people donated a quarter of a billion to Kerry when the Senate races are something to actually win.

Regarding lying, it's a bit shocking that the Kerry Silver Star is a Category V counterfeit. Maybe one of his Yale Skull and Bones buddies was running the medals office at the time:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect...ws-lips27.html

What does your post have to do with Bush lying to you me and the rest of the world?
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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post #4 of 38
Thread Starter 
Krugman examines Bush's problem with being honest in this opinion article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/op...10krugman.html

Where's the outrage trumpt? I seem to recall you getting bent out of shape due to Kerry's bio yet you're quite as a church mouse about Bush's lies.

Enjoy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #5 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Krugman examines Bush's problem with being honest in this opinion article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/op...10krugman.html

Where's the outrage trumpt? I seem to recall you getting bent out of shape due to Kerry's bio yet you're quite as a church mouse about Bush's lies.

Enjoy.

Good article

And that strategy has been discussed elsewhere in tiny blips in the media and noted that it is a Bush strategy: forcast too high in the short term so that the bad performance looks good in comparison.

I think that prolepsis is a term for that kind of trope . . . .

and why is nobody discussing the fact that the real numbers behind Bush's Medicare bill were forcebly kept away from an accountant that was trying to get them to show Congress before the vote? . . . an act of deliberately witholding information . . . in other words, a deliberate lie

I cannot remember the details . . . Giant, Faust, wanna help out with this one?
Do you know the details?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #6 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Krugman examines Bush's problem with being honest in this opinion article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/op...10krugman.html

Where's the outrage trumpt? I seem to recall you getting bent out of shape due to Kerry's bio yet you're quite as a church mouse about Bush's lies.

Enjoy.

Dear Readers,

Just a small editorial note to let you know that although trumptman is a well regarded, thoughtful poster, he does possess a life which he does attend to while not posting on these boards.

Thanks,

The Management.

P.S. Yes the document above is in fact FORGED as being from management. Though CBS still used it on 60 minutes for their latest story, "Faust9, billions posted, yet no one served"


-----------------------

Now to the matter at hand.

First you can call an omission a lie if you desire. It is your right to do that. Although I haven't encountered a famous person or politician yet that doesn't omit some negative information from their past. I'm sure Bush probably left the DUI out as well.

The difference and this is what causes the outrage on the Kerry side is not omission. It is that he details actual events, LIFECHANGING events that he then uses for politican gain against an assuption that you cannot question or doubt him in part because of that event.

Let's see how this would work politically.

Bush: Congress needs to pass my legislation for tax cuts because I did not go to my physical and as a result was suspended from flying... BTW I forgot to mention that to you previously.

Kerry: You need to vote to pass my bill banning assault weapons. When I was in Cambodia during Christmas of 1968, being shot at by people we wouldn't even admit were aiding our enemies, I said to myself, I wish I were home. It so troubles me to believe that these same weapons are available for ready sale here in the United States. That Cambodia episode SEARED into my memory the need to keep such weapons out of the hands of the general citizen.

Ummmmmmmmmm.....yeah, I can see why one gets investigated, and the other one doesn't. I can see why one causes outrage and the other one doesn't.

Bush, right or wrong in his omission, doesn't use it as a bully club to hit others over the head with.

Kerry, right or wrong in his outright lies, does use his service and episodes in it real or imagined as a bully club to attack Bush, Dean and Edwards among others.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 38
Nick the lie is this:

"I continued flying with my unit for the next several years"

There is no one on earth who would accept one and a half years as equivalent to "several years". Unless they are deliberately trying to mislead or distort the facts. In other words, lying.
post #8 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Nick the lie is this:

"I continued flying with my unit for the next several years"

There is no one on earth who would accept one and a half years as equivalent to "several years". Unless they are deliberately trying to mislead or distort the facts. In other words, lying.

If you want to parse the wording, and take issue with a particular word. It is totally your right. It is also your right to be bewildered when others don't take issue or don't even care.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #9 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
If you want to parse the wording, and take issue with a particular word. It is totally your right. It is also your right to be bewildered when others don't take issue or don't even care.

Nick

'Parse the wording'? Leave my frigging English language alone! 'Several' means 'more than two.' That's the definition of the word. To put it another way, that's what the word MEANS.

It's not 'parsing' to point this out.

"Did you take out the rubbish?"
"Yes."

"You didn't take out the rubbish!"
"I said "no."
"You didn't- you said 'yes'!"
"Don't parse my words."
post #10 of 38
So now Nick thinks it's not lying as long as it's said in words. It's all becoming clear now.
post #11 of 38
We are not going to get rid of Bush with the "Bush lied" and "where are the weapons" and "Bush dodged the military" mantras. The pro Kerry people and anyone else who is anti-Bush needs to focus on convincing the voters that Kerry is a good choice. I think that the warn out anti-Bush mantra is falling on deaf ears across the country and has become little more than preaching to the choir. People in the US SHOULD care about these issues, but they don't seem to.
post #12 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
'Parse the wording'? Leave my frigging English language alone! 'Several' means 'more than two.' That's the definition of the word. To put it another way, that's what the word MEANS.

It's not 'parsing' to point this out.

"Did you take out the rubbish?"
"Yes."

"You didn't take out the rubbish!"
"I said "no."
"You didn't- you said 'yes'!"
"Don't parse my words."

Did Bush serve for several years? Yes.
Did Bush serve for several years from 1970 on? Well no.

Did Bush remember that the program he had applied for "Palace Alert" in 1970? No, the words that indicate the timeline for the program there are not his. They are part of the research that occurs from the interview.

Did Bush utter the words "1970" and "several years"? No.

Bush was speaking in a generalized manner. The details were added by the biographer. There isn't any intent to lie nor does the sequence change anything about Bush and his intent.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Did Bush serve for several years? Yes.
Did Bush serve for several years from 1970 on? Well no.

Did Bush remember that the program he had applied for "Palace Alert" in 1970? No, the words that indicate the timeline for the program there are not his. They are part of the research that occurs from the interview.

Did Bush utter the words "1970" and "several years"? No.

Bush was speaking in a generalized manner. The details were added by the biographer. There isn't any intent to lie nor does the sequence change anything about Bush and his intent.

Nick

Oh... So I get it now. Thanks man for make it all clear.

Are you ready?

Whan the biography is about John Kerry and approved by John Kerry and you don't like what it says then John Kerry is a liar.

When the biography is about GWB and approved by GWB and you don't like what is said then the biographer is a liar.

Got it.

I honesty cannot believe you have the gall to post this clearly partisan stance when you criticised me in another post for pointing out that the Iraq war is a failure.

Face it--you held Kerry to a standard and refuse to hold Bush to that same standard. Way to be conservative.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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post #14 of 38
Thread Starter 
Error Will Robinson Error.

[edit]I know it's Danger will Robinson--not error.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #15 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Oh... So I get it now. Thanks man for make it all clear.

Are you ready?

Whan the biography is about John Kerry and approved by John Kerry and you don't like what it says then John Kerry is a liar.

When the biography is about GWB and approved by GWB and you don't like what is said then the biographer is a liar.

Got it.

I honesty cannot believe you have the gall to post this clearly partisan stance when you criticised me in another post for pointing out that the Iraq war is a failure.

Face it--you held Kerry to a standard and refuse to hold Bush to that same standard. Way to be conservative.

You've clearly moved beyond rational thought at this point.

Let me make this simple for you.

Did Bush serve for several years? Yes.

Did Kerry EVER go to Cambodia? No.

No one, not even Kerry's "Band of Brothers" will say that he went to Cambodia. There isn't a mistake about a timeline, or a mistake about what place in Cambodia. Kerry NEVER went to Cambodia.

If Kerry's biographer had written a statement like the Bush statement, no one would give a damn. If they did, they you would shrug your shoulders and ignore them. There is a big difference between getting a detail wrong on a timeline and claiming you went to places and did things that you never did. If you can't see the difference, then too bad for you.

Here's a little real world example to help you relate a little better.

*I graduated from college in four years.

Oh, sir, you walked through in June, but your grad check uncovered a class that you needed. You then took the class during summer school and got degree confirmation in August/September.

*Well, I still didn't start a fifth year.

Yeah, that was four years and three months... LIAR, LIAR, pants on fire.

Versus...

*During my four years at college I can remember the many lessons learned while starting at quarterback for our football team.

Uh, sir, you were never on the football team.

*Well, um, I did spend more time on the second string than starting that's true, but I did learn lessons when I did start.

Uh... sir, you were never on the football team.

*Well I did spend some time on the scrimmage squad and most of those people were allowed to letter and be declared members of the official team.

Uh...sir... you were never on the team. You never wore a uniform. You never even played football in any context.

*Silence.

If you can't understand why people care about one, and not the other, again too bad for you because any rational person can easily see this.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Did Bush serve for several years? Yes.
Did Bush serve for several years from 1970 on? Well no.

Did Bush remember that the program he had applied for "Palace Alert" in 1970? No, the words that indicate the timeline for the program there are not his. They are part of the research that occurs from the interview.

Did Bush utter the words "1970" and "several years"? No.

Bush was speaking in a generalized manner. The details were added by the biographer. There isn't any intent to lie nor does the sequence change anything about Bush and his intent.

Nick

After this post I never, ever want to see you complain about 'parsing' again.



Although fair's fair, I quite concede the point you go on to make. You're right.
post #17 of 38
The problem is that the educational and IQ level of Bush supporters is so low that they think idiocy is a religion. The Bush presidency is a testament to a failed US educational system. It has failed Mr. Bush and millions of other people over the last 50 years. Most people know nothing about history, they think the US has liberated France while Adolf was ready to send a couple V2s to NY. The US has brought so much intelligence back from Nazi Germany i.e Wernher von Braun and such people. Jet engines, VWs... What will we get from Iraq? Terror experts.

We need peace which is only possible if we no longer need what other people have. Imperialism will cause WW3 no doubt and the last few thousand years clearly point to the fact whoever starts any war looses. The list of instances to support this is too long even for the internet.

If you vote for Bush you are for solving things with fire. Cleansing things by burning them down. Slightly cavemanish...and many who start fires get burned themselves. If you vote for Kerry you will exclude millions from understanding what our president says because they simply do not have the language skills it takes to follow an intellectual speech.
post #18 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
[B]The problem is that the educational and IQ level of Bush supporters is so low that they think idiocy is a religion.

Post of the Month.
Fucking brilliant.
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post #19 of 38
Dismissive and ultimately helps the Bush admin. to think as much. This is why Bush has walked all over Democrats, Congress, the UN, etc. for the past 4 years. Keep dismissing him and his allies, and keep losing out.
post #20 of 38
trumpt:

You are working with word substitution here. This is what the Bush autobiography says: "continued flying with my unit for the next several years"

Flying.

"Flying" is not "serving".

They are different words and you swapped one for the other as if they were the same.

Bush lied.
He didn't even fly for several years in total, he flew for less than 2. Several is not less than 2 in any twist of the language you care to bring.

This is a stupid subject, but even more stupid is your attempt to move the goalpost.
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post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
The US has brought so much intelligence back from Nazi Germany i.e Wernher von Braun and such people. Jet engines, VWs... What will we get from Iraq? Terror experts.

Now this is a great perspective. Thanks!

I've often heard people try to say that not going to war with Iraq would have been like the US not going to war against Germany... a misguided Neville Chamberlain-esque appeasement policy or an excessive isolationism that would have come back and bitten us.

There are a number of reasons I think that comparing Saddam Hussein's Iraq to Nazi Germany makes for a very flawed analogy, and if asked why I'd have mentioned the Gulf War response when Iraq actually did try to grab more territory, the presence of patrolled no-fly zones, weapons inspectors (even if sometimes thwarted), the existence of technologically means such as spy satellites for monitoring Iraqi activity, etc.

But bringing up Wernher von Braun really nails it. Germany was much more of a threat than Iraq ever was because in some areas Germany was a more technologically advanced nation than the US at the time.

I do realize that all it takes is one stray nuke, technological superior or not to our own nukes, to ruin your day, but if that's the criteria for invasion Iran or Korea would have been better targets. Spending much less than $200 billion to secure old Soviet nuclear materials so that terrorists couldn't get a hold of them would have made us much safer than invading Iraq, simply because Saddam might have been planning to makes some nukes.
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
trumpt:

You are working with word substitution here. This is what the Bush autobiography says: "continued flying with my unit for the next several years"

Flying.

"Flying" is not "serving".

They are different words and you swapped one for the other as if they were the same.

Bush lied.
He didn't even fly for several years in total, he flew for less than 2. Several is not less than 2 in any twist of the language you care to bring.

This is a stupid subject, but even more stupid is your attempt to move the goalpost.

Here, I'll even give you the most leftist source I can find on this, just to shut you up. It even includes pretty pictures to help you comprehend.

Again, let's break it down.

Pretty timeline for Grove

If you go from the entire time he is flying, it is from 1968 to 1972. If you want to only count the time he flew with the 111st, it is about two and a half years.

If you want to complain that two and a half should only be called a couple and not several, again, that is your fancy, but don't be surprised at the lack of outrage over a "lie."

Bush served for several years.
Bush flew for several years.
Bush served with the 111st for... 2.5 years. You can call it whatever you want.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #23 of 38
The time between the end of Bush's training and the end of Bush's flying is 22 months, which is not 2.5 years.

You can be a condescending prick all you like, but I'm not the one saying that "fly" and "serve" are the same words.
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post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
[B]Here, I'll even give you the most leftist source I can find on this, just to shut you up. It even includes pretty pictures to help you comprehend.

Obviously, despite pretty pictures, that leftist source is still too difficult for YOU to comprehend (see 2 below).

Quote:
If you want to only count the time he flew with the 111st, it is about two and a half years.

Two things:

1) I don't want "to only count the time he flew with the 111st", I want to count the time he flew after flight training which is what the Bush lie is all about. It happens to be the same though.

2) July 1970 - April 1972, yeah, that's easily two and a half years, if not even a whole lot more. However, Bush is probably even worse at these things than you are. It's quite likely he figured 1970-1972 are 3+ years and didn't even make the false claims deliberately.
post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by 123
2) July 1970 - April 1972, yeah, that's easily two and a half years, if not even a whole lot more. H

That's either 21 months, if you're counting from the end of one month to the beginning of the other, or, it is 23 months . . . . neither figure is 2.5 years

One year and elevn months is not 'several years'
Now granted that this whole thing is silly . . . . except that when it is Kerry being scrutinized thusly it never seems to be silly, merely visious and dirty.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by 123
Obviously, despite pretty pictures, that leftist source is still too difficult for YOU to comprehend (see 2 below).


Two things:

1) I don't want "to only count the time he flew with the 111st", I want to count the time he flew after flight training which is what the Bush lie is all about. It happens to be the same though.

2) July 1970 - April 1972, yeah, that's easily two and a half years, if not even a whole lot more. However, Bush is probably even worse at these things than you are. It's quite likely he figured 1970-1972 are 3+ years and didn't even make the false claims deliberately.

Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
The time between the end of Bush's training and the end of Bush's flying is 22 months, which is not 2.5 years.

You can be a condescending prick all you like, but I'm not the one saying that "fly" and "serve" are the same words.

Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
That's either 21 months, if you're counting from the end of one month to the beginning of the other, or, it is 23 months . . . . neither figure is 2.5 years

One year and elevn months is not 'several years'
Now granted that this whole thing is silly . . . . except that when it is Kerry being scrutinized thusly it never seems to be silly, merely visious and dirty.

Do we no longer consider training with the unit to be flying with the unit?

I mean Kerry got his first, self-inflicted purple heart while still in his first month of training in Vietnam, but of course we won't discount that. We will count that as part of his massive four months and eleven days of service in Vietnam. Note that when Kerry is training, it is service, but when Bush is training, I guess it isn't. Training with the 111st must not be "flying" or "serving" with them.


Bush record

December of 69 to June of 1970, Pilot Trainee 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron.

You guys have moved into the truly pathetic realm.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #27 of 38
'self inflicted' is a lie . . . proven in the very records of the time written by a SBV4B himself . . . let it go little man
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
'self inflicted' is a lie . . . proven in the very records of the time written by a SBV4B himself . . . let it go little man

Self-inflicted is not a lie. Ask the commanding officer and the officer on the boat with him.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Self-inflicted is not a lie. Ask the commanding officer and the officer on the boat with him.

Boat? Bob Dole wasn't on a boat when he almost blew himself up with a grenade.
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post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Boat? Bob Dole wasn't on a boat when he almost blew himself up with a grenade.

Yes and according to the logic of some here, he probably wasn't on active duty or serving his country either.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Yes and according to the logic of some here, he probably wasn't on active duty or serving his country either.

That's what people say about Kerry, even though he volunteered. It is strange, isn't it.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
That's what people say about Kerry, even though he volunteered. It is strange, isn't it.

Actually the only thing I have heard said about Kerry is that it is odd for him to call himself braver than others for volunteering when he received four deferments and then volunteered after the fifth deferment was denied.

In all honestly, the Kerry volunteering thing has been way overplayed. Kerry was not rushing into war or service. Had he gotten another deferment, I have no doubt he would have taken it and not served.


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Actually the only thing I have heard said about Kerry

Well, when you listen to nothing but talking point echo chamber, that's hardly surprising.

Opening your ears and your mind just might help....
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post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
...I have no doubt....

Well that settles it.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #35 of 38
Trumpt really has no doubts about Bush at all. He's taken the Bush bait hook (as in 9/11 being used as a political tool), line (as in the Swift Liars) and sinker (as in the sinking economy).

Why question our government? Why have doubts? Why assert our political right to say our government could, and should do better? Why? Because that's what America is all about.

Trumptman is really, absolutely Anti-American for having "no doubts".
post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Well, when you listen to nothing but talking point echo chamber, that's hardly surprising.

Opening your ears and your mind just might help....

Are you claiming Kerry did not receive or use deferments just like Cheney who he criticized for not servicing?

Cheney received five. Kerry applied for five and received four.

/sarcasm
But John Kerry is so brave.... he saw a need and just rushed right off to help defend American ideals.

/sarcasm off

John Kerry did what he could, no different than any other person he cares to criticize. If he had gotten the fifth deferment, he would be just like Cheney. Instead he volunteered to gain some control over his placement. It was a very common and commonly understood was to deal with that draft back then. If you knew you were going to be drafted, you signed up in order to gain some measure of control over what was happening to you.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #37 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Trumpt really has no doubts about Bush at all. He's taken the Bush bait hook (as in 9/11 being used as a political tool), line (as in the Swift Liars) and sinker (as in the sinking economy).

Why question our government? Why have doubts? Why assert our political right to say our government could, and should do better? Why? Because that's what America is all about.

Trumptman is really, absolutely Anti-American for having "no doubts".

Actually Trumptman has repeatedly stated that he would give his vote to any candidate that limited immigration, (raises employment, wages and allows unionization while also helping the environment) would truthfully be a fair trader instead of a free trader, would balance the budget, and would truly defend our own borders.

Both candidates hold the exact same views here. There is no difference between them. So I have to choose on other issues.

But I hear no doubts about Kerry, heck I don't even hear doubts about CBS and their forged documents. It is the left who drank the kool-aid. They are the ones running two fantastically rich guys as being for the common people. They are the ones who are straddling the Iraq/WOT issue. Heck Kerry even claims he is going to cut corporate taxes.

So don't be hypocritical Ton, you've claimed I had no doubts and I mentioned them. Now mention yours about Kerry.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #38 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Actually Trumptman has repeatedly stated that he would give his vote to any candidate that limited immigration, (raises employment, wages and allows unionization while also helping the environment) would truthfully be a fair trader instead of a free trader, would balance the budget, and would truly defend our own borders.

Both candidates hold the exact same views here. There is no difference between them. So I have to choose on other issues.

But I hear no doubts about Kerry, heck I don't even hear doubts about CBS and their forged documents. It is the left who drank the kool-aid. They are the ones running two fantastically rich guys as being for the common people. They are the ones who are straddling the Iraq/WOT issue. Heck Kerry even claims he is going to cut corporate taxes.

So don't be hypocritical Ton, you've claimed I had no doubts and I mentioned them. Now mention yours about Kerry.

Nick

Doubts?

Quote:
Originally posted by tonton (posted 09-10-2004 02:37 PM)
I've studied some of the claims made by the forgery crew, and I'm starting to think that the documents are probably fake. This is a bad reflection on a few Kerry supporters.

Objective analysis of Bush policy?

Quote:
Originally posted by tonton (posted 08-24-2004 10:02 AM)
I honestly think that we shouldn't knee-jerk this one. Let's see whether and how companies exploit the above loopholes first, because the benfit to certain employees is there.

You mean a stron Kerry supporter actually LOOKS at the issues from a fair and unbiased point of view? Couldn't be!!!
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