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Ali Dashti: Re Irshad Manji (Take 2)

post #1 of 125
Thread Starter 
Posted September 10, 2004 04:30 PM
Quote:
I share your misgivings of Irshad Manji, the darling of the PC and Left intelligentsia.

The interesting thing about Irshad Manji is when she is pressed as to why she does not leave Islam, considering all she knows of Islam, replies in an apologetic and devious way, that there are many good things in Islam and she hopes for a more peaceful interpretation of the Koran or a Reformation. On both counts, she knows that this is not possible. As long as she continues to define herself as a Muslim, ipso facto, she believes that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah and is the role model for mankind. How on earth anyone can honestly regard Mohammed as a role model for mankind, beats me.

So why does she and Schwartz do it. To me there is a lurking suspicion that this is all part of the war. Deception and disinformation have always been part of a major war and both Schwartz and Manji are practising it. In the last two years there has been a hue and cry in the West, trying to find the Moderate Muslims (MM). This desire to find MM is crucial to the continuation of multi-culturalism. Without MM, the whole project dies. The LLL thus gives these two individuals far greater space then honest ex-Muslims such as Ali Sena and Ibn Warraq.

And so here they are, Schwartz and Manji, for their own reasons, willing to satisfy the panic search for MM. But these two do it for their own reasons. As confessed Muslims, they realise that the Muslim project in the West is at a dangerous pass. No MM and the PC multi-culti LLL media will begin to come to conclusions that endangers the ummah in the West. So the LLL multi-culti crowd and the Ummah need each other for their own particular projects. However, given the exponential growth of the Ummah in the West, all it requires is for Manji, Schwartz and others who may follow them, to lull the West for another 30 years or so. By then it will be too late, according to their way of thinking, for LLL and us, to do anything about it. Well they are wrong. We are awake to the danger. In fact most Western leaders are awake to the danger but are not yet ready to state the case.

I think we would be far better relying on Ali Sena, when he states that Islam cannot be reformed. He probably, has far more knowledge and understanding of Islam then Manji. Genuine honesty is the one single attribute that seems to be missing from the writings of Manji and Schwartz. It is what damns them.

It is said that with present demographic trends, Europe will be Muslim before the end of the century. I believe this would mean the end of Western civilization. Is talk of Islamic reform by so called moderate Muslims just a sinister Islamic tactic of deception (See: Takkiya/ Taqqiya), and do we still have the luxury to be believing them?
post #2 of 125
Which is exactly why people need to be educated on the pagan origins of their religion.

'there is no evidence of a Christian or Islamic God'.

'All ancient religions were formed on sun-worship - and this was understood by a large proportion of its followers'

'Christianity and Islam' are rehashed ancient sun-worship, foolishly taken literally and were propogated by cruel force, terror, and ignorance.

'Christianity and Islam both breed intolerance, bigotry, self-deceit, violence, terrorism, conflict, intolerance, mistrust and ignorance.

This is the real education that will possibly save mankind from the forthcoming religious armageddon which appears to be coming more strongly every day.
post #3 of 125
Western civilization?

What do you define as western civilization?
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post #4 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Western civilization?

What do you define as western civilization?

Where do you live?
post #5 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Where do you live?

Lets say Bangkok.
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post #6 of 125
What about people who live in Greenwich, 00° longitude ? Are they west or east ?
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post #7 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by Stoo
What about people who live in Greenwich, 00° longitude ? Are they west or east ?

According to ghost killa, that would depend on the color of their skin.
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post #8 of 125
"As long as she continues to define herself as a Muslim, ipso facto, she believes that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah and is the role model for mankind. How on earth anyone can honestly regard Mohammed as a role model for mankind, beats me."

Some well-known Christian Role Models:

Martin Luther
John Calvin
post #9 of 125
In the 18th Century, it was said that with then current trends, London would be covered by 12 feet of horse shit.

Something about horse shit and this thread ... now, what was it ...
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post #10 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Lets say Bangkok.

I meant from what planet?

post #11 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
According to ghost killa, that would depend on the color of their skin.

post #12 of 125
Thread Starter 
Seems by the response I'm getting so far, not many here are really fazed by the prospect of Islamic domination over Europe/ Eurabia, and are probably eagerly awaiting that day.


At least we know where we all stand.
post #13 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Seems by the response I'm getting so far, not many here are really fazed by the prospect of Islamic domination over Europe/ Eurabia, and are probably eagerly awaiting that day. At least we know where we all stand.

No, people are just tired of your racist crap.
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post #14 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
No, people are just tired of your racist crap.

No. Your crude personal attacks are getting tired.
post #15 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Seems by the response I'm getting so far, not many here are really fazed by the prospect of Islamic domination over Europe/ Eurabia, and are probably eagerly awaiting that day.


At least we know where we all stand.

Yes, that's right Mika. I can't wait for the day that sharia law rules my life, and my personal freedoms are curtailed.

Allahu akhbar.

Twat.
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post #16 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
No. Your crude personal attacks are getting tired.

Well quit making racist comments and no one will be able to point them out.

Tired of personal attacks? What was the post to which I responded...

Quote:
Seems by the response I'm getting so far, not many here are really fazed by the prospect of Islamic domination over Europe/ Eurabia, and are probably eagerly awaiting that day.

Let me guess, you'll lie and say that wasn't meant as a personal attack, right?

Religion will continue to transform, rise in power and fade away. Deal with it.
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post #17 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Well quit making racist comments and no one will be able to point them out.

Is lying a compulsive disorder for you bunge? There's nothing I've said that can be remotely regarded is racist. Nothing. Of course pointing out the truth automatically qualifies any non-leftist as a "racist" or "fascist" or "nazi", etc. This tired old tactic of screaming "racist" or "stupid" at anyone you leftists mofos disagree with is typical, but on this board it has become an epidemic. (I hope the moderators start taking some disciplanary action in this regard).
post #18 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Yes, that's right Mika. I can't wait for the day that sharia law rules my life, and my personal freedoms are curtailed.

Allahu akhbar.

Twat.



How is it that you're still allowed to get away with this kind of behavior is beyond me.
post #19 of 125
Thread Starter 
My view is that waiting and indulging Islamists means waiting for law and order to break down. As the muslim population expands and grows more malevolent in Europe, laws will be of little help. There will be nothing stopping armed Islamic mobs from terror attacks, murdering the infidels in their homes and in the streets. They have done such on many occasions in other parts of the world. This expansionist totalitarian ideology is evil and its rabid misogynistic followers are hell bent on world domination as they rape, rob, torture, lie and kill to reach that goal.
post #20 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
My view is that waiting and indulging Islamists means waiting for law and order to break down. As the muslim population expands and grows more malevolent in Europe, laws will be of little help. There will be nothing stopping armed Islamic mobs from terror attacks, murdering the infidels in their homes and in the streets. They have done such on many occasions in other parts of the world. This expansionist totalitarian ideology is evil and its rabid misogynistic followers are hell bent on world domination as they rape, rob, torture, lie and kill to reach that goal.


And the same can be said of Christian Fundamentalist in other periods of time. And Vikings. I like Vikings...

In all cases the human will to overcome humanity's weaknesses, such as irrational fear which leads to overheated assumptions and conculsions that bring about angry responses and needless loss of life, wins. You ghost killa are just the other side of the coin... spin coin spin...
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post #21 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
And the same can be said of Christian Fundamentalist in other periods of time. And Vikings. I like Vikings...

In all cases the human will to overcome humanity's weaknesses, such as irrational fear which leads to overheated assumptions and conculsions that bring about angry responses and needless loss of life, wins. You ghost killa are just the other side of the coin... spin coin spin...


These forces weren't beaten back by people burying their collective heads in the ground. And screaming "RACIST" at someone pointing out the dangers this murderous expansionist ideology presents to our civilization isn't going to help defeat this menace.
post #22 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
These forces weren't beaten back by people burying their collective heads in the ground. And screaming "RACIST" at someone pointing out the dangers this murderous expansionist ideology presents to our civilization isn't going to help defeat this menace.

It is not politically acceptable to raise this issue.
It is not militarily acceptable to raise this issue.

It is however possible to defeat this problem, if it exists, by educating members of the various religions as to the origins and reality of their 'evil' doctrines, of which I gave insight into in my first reply.
post #23 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
These forces weren't beaten back by people burying their collective heads in the ground. And screaming "RACIST" at someone pointing out the dangers this murderous expansionist ideology presents to our civilization isn't going to help defeat this menace.

You are part of the problem.
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post #24 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
You are part of the problem.

What do you mean?
post #25 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
What do you mean?

Let us just say that the sucess of the Muslim extremists is strongly dependent on the psychology of the belief that they (the Muslim people, and their culture) is under attack from the West. You have expressed a similar view that "our" way is under attack from Islam and its minions. Basically, this view on either side results in more death than is necessary. It is a matter of history that these views are wrong.
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post #26 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Let us just say that the sucess of the Muslim extremists is strongly dependent on the psychology of the belief that they (the Muslim people, and their culture) is under attack from the West. You have expressed a similar view that "our" way is under attack from Islam and its minions. Basically, this view on either side results in more death than is necessary. It is a matter of history that these views are wrong.


Interesting. One certainly could argue that such attitudes can increase and harden tensions between groups. A valid point, no doubt. But do you not believe that there exists an existential clash between our two value systems? And is any amount of "diplomacy" going to alleviate it?
post #27 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Let us just say that the sucess of the Muslim extremists is strongly dependent on the psychology of the belief that they (the Muslim people, and their culture) is under attack from the West. You have expressed a similar view that "our" way is under attack from Islam and its minions. Basically, this view on either side results in more death than is necessary. It is a matter of history that these views are wrong.

Just want to interject for a minute with a question hardee:

Hasn't military expansionism always been a major part of Islamic doctrine?

I don't want to minimize the stupid dealings the West has had with Arabian dictators that have made things worse. But in another thread we were discussing Islamic expansionism and the Crusades, and it dawned on me that this thing has been going on far longer than "the West" as we know it, has existed.
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post #28 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Just want to interject for a minute with a question hardee:

Hasn't military expansionism always been a major part of Islamic doctrine?

I don't want to minimize the stupid dealings the West has had with Arabian dictators that have made things worse. But in another thread we were discussing Islamic expansionism and the Crusades, and it dawned on me that this thing has been going on far longer than "the West" as we know it, has existed.

Then you should go back to history class.

The spread of christianity has been A) more violent by far, B) going on longer in a violent fashion, by far.

I would just like to point out that in Islam, Jesus is accepted as an important role-model. So there.
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post #29 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
Is lying a compulsive disorder for you bunge? There's nothing I've said that can be remotely regarded is racist. Nothing.

And then, a few posts down...

Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
My view is that waiting and indulging Islamists means waiting for law and order to break down. As the muslim population expands and grows more malevolent in Europe, laws will be of little help. There will be nothing stopping armed Islamic mobs from terror attacks, murdering the infidels in their homes and in the streets. They have done such on many occasions in other parts of the world. This expansionist totalitarian ideology is evil and its rabid misogynistic followers are hell bent on world domination as they rape, rob, torture, lie and kill to reach that goal.


Who's the liar now?
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post #30 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by rampancy

Who's the liar now?

I think you might be defining racist as anti-religious.
post #31 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
I think you might be defining racist as anti-religious.

Mika certainly isn't anti-religious. Just anti-any-religion-other-than-Judiasm. A racist to be more precise.
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post #32 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
No, people are just tired of your racist crap.

That's why he's been banned so many times.
post #33 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Mika certainly isn't anti-religious. Just anti-any-religion-other-than-Judiasm. A racist to be more precise.

I suggest you keep checking your private messages box. You might have an important message from one of the moderators regarding your gag.
post #34 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
I suggest you keep checking your private messages box. You might have an important message from one of the moderators regarding your gag.

You know Ghost, if you want to get a second (or third) chance here at these boards, maybe you should change your strategy a bit. If you show some capability of normal discussion, then there is probably room for you here.

But if your not interested in debate, then your all your efforts here are pretty futile...
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post #35 of 125
Thread Starter 
Having trouble with the server today... but here's an article that doesn't try to hide the facts under the carpet

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=5096

Quote:
Swedens third-largest city, Malmo, according to the Swedish Aftonbladet, has become an outpost of the Middle East in Scandinavia: The police now publicly admit what many Scandinavians have known for a long time: They no longer control the situation in the nationss third largest city. It is effectively ruled by violent gangs of Muslim immigrants. Some of the Muslims have lived in the area of Rosengard, Malmo, for twenty years, and still dont know how to read or write Swedish. Ambulance personnel are attacked by stones or weapons, and refuse to help anybody in the area without police escort. The immigrants also spit at them when they come to help. Recently, an Albanian youth was stabbed by an Arab, and was left bleeding to death on the ground while the ambulance waited for the police to arrive. The police themselves hesitate to enter parts of their own city unless they have several patrols, and need to have guards to watch their cars, otherwise they will be vandalized.

The Nordgardsskolen in Aarhus, Denmark, has become the first Dane-free Danish school. The students now come entirely from Denmarks fastest-growing constituency: Muslim immigrants.

Also in Denmark, the Quran is now required reading for all upper-secondary school students. There is nothing wrong with that in itself, but it is unlikely, given the current ascendancy of political correctness on the Continent, that critical perspectives will be included.
post #36 of 125
Thread Starter 
We also have to ask if contemporary Islam is a religion or a political movement. After all, if Islam rejects the separation of church and state. Does Islam deserve the same legal protection as does contemporary Christianity in our society?
post #37 of 125
Some on these boards are dogmatic, annoying, dangerous even; on both sides of the debate.

You're sick. I mean, you are ill; I advise you to seek psychiatric help if you have not already done so. I mean it man.

Try here maybe; not sure if you're still in Israel. Good luck Mika.
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post #38 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by ghost killa
We also have to ask if contemporary Islam is a religion or a political movement. After all, if Islam rejects the separation of church and state. Does Islam deserve the same legal protection as does contemporary Christianity in our society?

Contemporary Christianity has like all religions a major segment that doesn't believe in the separation of church and state. Indeed, the most sucessful movements in Christianity in the last decade have been those calling for increased participation of the church in all things including government. By your logic then, we should kick these people out because they don't "believe" in our system of governance.

And no, I do not believe that the religion of Islam is fundamentaly opposed to a democratic society. I also realize by looking at history, the most progress Western Society made after the fall of Rome and before the establishment of the nation-state occured in the areas under Muslim rule...

To answer Frank's question, the militaristic aspect of Islam is not a property that is universal in the history of Muslim States. And as a counter point, European Imperialism which has resulted in the deaths of many millions more people than Muslim "Imperialism," was always couched in Christian terms; in fact, the same terms that Christian missionaries use today. Violence is necessarily the product of trying to enforce an ideology on a people that already have an understanding of the world.

On a side note: Religious tolerance is a new concept in the history of human civilization. Think about it.
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post #39 of 125
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Contemporary Christianity has like all religions a major segment that doesn't believe in the separation of church and state. Indeed, the most sucessful movements in Christianity in the last decade have been those calling for increased participation of the church in all things including government. By your logic then, we should kick these people out because they don't "believe" in our system of governance.

And no, I do not believe that the religion of Islam is fundamentaly opposed to a democratic society. I also realize by looking at history, the most progress Western Society made after the fall of Rome and before the establishment of the nation-state occured in the areas under Muslim rule...

To answer Frank's question, the militaristic aspect of Islam is not a property that is universal in the history of Muslim States. And as a counter point, European Imperialism which has resulted in the deaths of many millions more people than Muslim "Imperialism," was always couched in Christian terms; in fact, the same terms that Christian missionaries use today. Violence is necessarily the product of trying to enforce an ideology on a people that already have an understanding of the world.

On a side note: Religious tolerance is a new concept in the history of human civilization. Think about it.

Thanks for this nice post.
post #40 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Contemporary Christianity has like all religions a major segment that doesn't believe in the separation of church and state.

Name them.
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