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French and Germans to Kerry... hell no - Page 3

post #81 of 125
9/30/04 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Quit saying they have the upper hand on Kerry when he will likely go down to defeat instead of prevailing in part because their actions discredit him.

Of course they have the upper hand. The U.S. needs (or wants) their support.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #82 of 125
9/30/04 at 4:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Of course they have the upper hand. The U.S. needs (or wants) their support.

No Kerry wants their support. Bush asked for it, and then went ahead anyway. He continues to periodically ask for it.

To make it quite clear, we do not need them. We prefer not the take the burden alone, but we will.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #83 of 125
9/30/04 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
No Kerry wants their support. Bush asked for it, and then went ahead anyway. He continues to periodically ask for it.

To make it quite clear, we do not need them. We prefer not the take the burden alone, but we will.

Nick

Uh, yeah if this was 1918!

The world doesn't work that way anymore. And anyone who doesn't see that is living in the past.


OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
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post #84 of 125
9/30/04 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
No Kerry wants their support. Bush asked for it, and then went ahead anyway. He continues to periodically ask for it.

To make it quite clear, we do not need them. We prefer not the take the burden alone, but we will.

Did Bush ask for it because he didn't want it?

They have to say no to keep relatively positive relations with the current administration. They are smart to say no to keep their populations positive. They are smart to say no to force Kerry, if he wins, to negotiate for their support.

It's crystal clear. You're in denial.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #85 of 125
9/30/04 at 7:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Did Bush ask for it because he didn't want it?

They have to say no to keep relatively positive relations with the current administration. They are smart to say no to keep their populations positive. They are smart to say no to force Kerry, if he wins, to negotiate for their support.

It's crystal clear. You're in denial.

We're just going to disagree on this. Laying more cards on the table never puts you in a better position of strength. The more options you have, the less strident a position taken, the easier it is to reverse it.

You basically argue the opposite here. It might make sense to you, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #86 of 125
9/30/04 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You basically argue the opposite here. It might make sense to you, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

Actually, I'm arguing that they shouldn't put any more on the table. Saying they would give Kerry troops does just this, lays all of their cards on the table. By saying no, they're keeping their current position without showing anything else.

I think you want to see the no as definitive, which would mean that they laid their cards on the table. I see the no as a non-answer for all of the reasons I've said before. It's a political no in my opinion.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #87 of 125
9/30/04 at 7:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Actually, I'm arguing that they shouldn't put any more on the table. Saying they would give Kerry troops does just this, lays all of their cards on the table. By saying no, they're keeping their current position without showing anything else.

I think you want to see the no as definitive, which would mean that they laid their cards on the table. I see the no as a non-answer for all of the reasons I've said before. It's a political no in my opinion.

Well there you go. That last paragraph pretty much sum up the difference. I consider silence to be laying no cards on the table. You consider saying no to be a NON-Answer?!? To me it sounds like a definate answer. Not only that, but it shows a continuation of a previous policy.

It seriously undermines the Kerry contention that their policy is based off Bush and not world or self-interest. Kerry argues that they would act in the world and self-interest, but basically Bush is so terrible that they sit on the sidelines. Kerry claims that they would come off these sidelines if he were elected. Silence isn't laying a card down. It is holding them close to your chest and allowing someone to believe what they want about the unrevealed cards/answers. Kerry could have filled that unrevealed information with whatever he desired. Now instead he has been undermined.

Nick

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #88 of 125
9/30/04 at 8:02pm
No offense, but I think you're simply misunderestimating politics.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #89 of 125
10/1/04 at 5:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
No offense, but I think you're simply misunderestimating politics.

No offense but that the understanding of politics is exactly why silence would have been profoundly effective while not pinning allowing anyone to claim they undermined Bush. It is the win/win scenario politically and they didn't choose it.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #90 of 125
10/1/04 at 4:43pm
By remaining silent they're telling the current president that they may in fact be willing to give Kerry support. That undermines their current and potentially future relationship with the president of the United States.

That's unacceptable politically.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #91 of 125
10/1/04 at 4:58pm
Even if we'd agree to send troops in Iraq it wouldn't changed things a lot.
We're a small country after all.
We don't have a lot of military people: Just enough to protect ourselves, not enough to 'invade' another country ;-) ( just joking )
So don't count on this(us) to solve YOUR problem(s)
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post #92 of 125
10/6/04 at 9:39pm
Hell maybe?
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #93 of 125
10/6/04 at 10:31pm
I am always cautious with this type of report Bunge, but if it's true, it's not very good for Bush. He screwed up a support voluntary, because he was too much in a hurry. And why was he in a hurry : because there was so many WOMD to be find by the US inspectors ...

Anyway it's just conjectures ...
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post #94 of 125
10/7/04 at 2:11am
Interesting (if true, but I think it is - Every options were kept opened at that time)

I love this part of the article:
" The book also discloses that French officials became convinced the United States had eavesdropped on Chiracs phone conversations after a U.S. official warned a French military official that the relationship between your president and ours is irreparable on the personal level. You have to understand that President Bush knows exactly what President Chirac thinks of him. "

Chirac is known for having a (sometimes) very colorfull langage in private.
I'd really like to know what he "thinks of him" in his own words ;-)
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post #95 of 125
10/7/04 at 2:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by pierr_alex
Chirac is known for having a (sometimes) very colorfull langage in private.
I'd really like to know what he "thinks of him" in his own words ;-)

Probably pretty close to what most people outside of head-in-the-ground neoconservativism think of him. Colorful language and all.

That brings to mind a question I have. Don't any of you Bush supporters care at all that the majority of the entire rest of the world hates him, thinks he's a joke, thinks he's evil, stupid, self-serving...(ad nauseum)? Doesn't that bother you at all? From an international perspective, GWB is the least respected American in history. Ever. And that affects the amount of respect the average American as afforded as well.

I don't know. When Bill Clinton was president, in general, EVERY nation outside of the US had a certain amount of respect for him. At the time I was proud to be an American. Now, as a human rights activist, I actually apologize for being an American. Seriously. The Bush administration has made fools of all of us. I am truly sorry for the terrible, selfish, stupid things my country's leader has done. And that is unacceptable. My country went from the moral high-ground to the moral shithouse in a single administration. And anyone with integrity would agree.
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post #96 of 125
10/7/04 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
That brings to mind a question I have. Don't any of you Bush supporters care at all that the majority of the entire rest of the world hates him, thinks he's a joke, thinks he's evil, stupid, self-serving...(ad nauseum)? Doesn't that bother you at all? From an international perspective, GWB is the least respected American in history. Ever. And that affects the amount of respect the average American as afforded as well.

I think the answer is obvious... Bushies pretend that international dislike of Bush is a badge of honor. Them foreigners all hate on Bush, ya see, because he's tough, stands strong, and don' let 'em push the Dubya around, nosiree. They're all freedom haters! Whadda we care what they think?
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We were once so close to heaven
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post #97 of 125
10/7/04 at 6:09am
They think patriotism means slamming every country but the US. The foolish logic goes like this: I love my country because it's the best, so all other countries suck compared to US.
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post #98 of 125
10/7/04 at 7:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Probably pretty close to what most people outside of head-in-the-ground neoconservativism think of him. Colorful language and all.

That brings to mind a question I have. Don't any of you Bush supporters care at all that the majority of the entire rest of the world hates him, thinks he's a joke, thinks he's evil, stupid, self-serving...(ad nauseum)? Doesn't that bother you at all? From an international perspective, GWB is the least respected American in history. Ever. And that affects the amount of respect the average American as afforded as well.

I don't know. When Bill Clinton was president, in general, EVERY nation outside of the US had a certain amount of respect for him. At the time I was proud to be an American. Now, as a human rights activist, I actually apologize for being an American. Seriously. The Bush administration has made fools of all of us. I am truly sorry for the terrible, selfish, stupid things my country's leader has done. And that is unacceptable. My country went from the moral high-ground to the moral shithouse in a single administration. And anyone with integrity would agree.

I don't remember everything being a roll in the hay for Clinton. I remember him being accused of blowing up aspirin factories in Iraq. I remember him taking lots of heat for basically not backing down after the U.S.S. Cole was hit. I remember plenty of negative articles about his lack of true progress in the middle east, etc. Happy and progress aren't the same thing.

I can't say I have traveled abroad and read the newspapers or spoken to the actual people in various countries since Bush took office. My view on it though is that our own media bias is reflected even more abroad in part because there are no counterbalances to it with regard to speech. I always find it very curious that a large majority of the blue states are basically the large media centers. Chicago, New York, California for example. Also the rest of us don't consider France and Germany, or even a decent chunk of Europe to be the rest of the world.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #99 of 125
10/7/04 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I don't remember everything being a roll in the hay for Clinton. I remember him being accused of blowing up aspirin factories in Iraq. I remember him taking lots of heat for basically not backing down after the U.S.S. Cole was hit. I remember plenty of negative articles about his lack of true progress in the middle east, etc. Happy and progress aren't the same thing.

I can't say I have traveled abroad and read the newspapers or spoken to the actual people in various countries since Bush took office. My view on it though is that our own media bias is reflected even more abroad in part because there are no counterbalances to it with regard to speech. I always find it very curious that a large majority of the blue states are basically the large media centers. Chicago, New York, California for example. Also the rest of us don't consider France and Germany, or even a decent chunk of Europe to be the rest of the world.

Nick

Ask the man on the street (or the woman on the street) in Europe and in Asia, and yes, Clinton was respected. There was no denying it. That said, so were Reagan, and, in greater China, anyway, Nixon.

Now as to the second half of your post, did you ever stop to think that the people living near media centers might be... I dunno... better informed? That also explains the so-called "bias" in the education sector. Stop and chew on that for a bit. Maybe you should pay attention to the intelligent people around you, in school, as well as in countries that realize that the US is not the center of the world. The most mature thing a man can do is to admit that he's wrong. Saddam didn't have any weapons. And "desire" for weapons, without any action toward getting them, is not enough to account for this war, and all of its cost in lives, economics, the prospect for peace, and respect for America.
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post #100 of 125
10/7/04 at 7:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Ask the man on the street (or the woman on the street) in Europe and in Asia, and yes, Clinton was respected. There was no denying it. That said, so were Reagan, and, in greater China, anyway, Nixon.

Now as to the second half of your post, did you ever stop to think that the people living near media centers might be... I dunno... better informed? That also explains the so-called "bias" in the education sector. Stop and chew on that for a bit. Maybe you should pay attention to the intelligent people around you, in school, as well as in countries that realize that the US is not the center of the world. The most mature thing a man can do is to admit that he's wrong. Saddam didn't have any weapons. And "desire" for weapons, without any action toward getting them, is not enough to account for this war, and all of its cost in lives, economics, the prospect for peace, and respect for America.

Actually television is pretty terrible with regard to informing people. It gives them a bite of sugar instead of a meal of true nutrition. You also forget that I do work in education. The complaints about public education are generally true with regard to test scores and things of that nature. It is also true that education is overwhelmingly filled with women which definately tend to trend Democratic. They trend that way because very often they end up divorced and want the government for a husband. At the elementary level, 95% of all teachers are female.

So the factors you mention that you believe help explain away the bias actually confirm it. Try again.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #101 of 125
10/7/04 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
They think patriotism means slamming every country but the US. The foolish logic goes like this: I love my country because it's the best, so all other countries suck compared to US.

You have just proved yourself a parrot.

Bush's job is to protect US interests, period. Sure, some uneducated rednecks feel that way, but most straight thinking people see things more clearly.

The very same attitude by your past forefathers, right after WWII, prevailed at that time. Read this and replace Europe with Iraq where appropriate.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1...hallplan1.html

You will find that GWB is following the pattern established way back then. You will also see that any standing in the way was met with a pullout of support for that nation. The plan to help EU recover worked and is proven. There is no reason to believe the same approach won't work in Iraq.

The fact that you and others ignore, despite knowing it's truthfulness, is that the ME and the world is better off without SH in power. You want the luxury of being able to criticize this president, so you won't admit the latter fact. Fine. But, everyone knew that drastic measures were needed to put down the SH problem and quell the growing threat and the widespread acceptance of terrorism in the ME. Spin till you are dizzy, if you haven't already. For the rest of us that want right to be done, recognize the Iraq war for what it is. An attempt to do the right thing for the US and in turn the rest of the world.

Consider it an intervention.
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post #102 of 125
10/7/04 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
You have just proved yourself a parrot.

Bush's job is to protect US interests, period. Sure, some uneducated rednecks feel that way, but most straight thinking people see things more clearly.

The very same attitude by your past forefathers, right after WWII, prevailed at that time. Read this and replace Europe with Iraq where appropriate.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1...hallplan1.html

You will find that GWB is following the pattern established way back then. You will also see that any standing in the way was met with a pullout of support for that nation. The plan to help EU recover worked and is proven. There is no reason to believe the same approach won't work in Iraq.

The fact that you and others ignore, despite knowing it's truthfulness, is that the ME and the world is better off without SH in power. You want the luxury of being able to criticize this president, so you won't admit the latter fact. Fine. But, everyone knew that drastic measures were needed to put down the SH problem and quell the growing threat and the widespread acceptance of terrorism in the ME. Spin till you are dizzy, if you haven't already. For the rest of us that want right to be done, recognize the Iraq war for what it is. An attempt to do the right thing for the US and in turn the rest of the world.

Consider it an intervention.

How exactly is the world better off? You make a statement--you should be able to back it. I've seen reports that say terrorism is on the rise (Colin had to eat crow a few months back). I've seen reports that say violance in Iraq has gone up since we've invaded. I've seen reports that say AQ recruitment has gone up. I've read reports of 100's of inocent people dying in nightclubs due to AQ car bombers. I've read a lot of govenrment released reports that counter your view. What proof you do have to support it?
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #103 of 125
10/7/04 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
How exactly is the world better off? You make a statement--you should be able to back it. I've seen reports that say terrorism is on the rise (Colin had to eat crow a few months back). I've seen reports that say violance in Iraq has gone up since we've invaded. I've seen reports that say AQ recruitment has gone up. I've read reports of 100's of inocent people dying in nightclubs due to AQ car bombers. I've read a lot of govenrment released reports that counter your view. What proof you do have to support it?

I stated what I believe. You can choose to adopt any view you wish.

I will mention a couple of threats that no longer exist now, as a result of the Iraq intervention:

1.) UNOFF program - it was costing the world billions (US) and SH was putting a lot of that money into his war chest.
2.) Libya's WMD programs.
3.) The vast underground WMD superstore supported through Libya
4.) SH's threat to Israel
5.) SH's threat to Kuwait
6.) SH's threat to the Kurds
7.) SH's threat to any of his own people that even looked at him funny.
8.) SH's constant and consistent treats toward the US and it's allies, in virtually every speech he gave since 1990.

I could go on, but what is the point? You're already addicted to the DNC Kool-aid.
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post #104 of 125
10/7/04 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
You have just proved yourself a parrot.

You have a lot of nerve.
Quote:
Bush's job is to protect US interests, period. Sure, some uneducated rednecks feel that way, but most straight thinking people see things more clearly.

How the hell would you know what 'straight thinking people see,' Clinton Body Count?
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post #105 of 125
10/7/04 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX I stated what I believe. You can choose to adopt any view you wish.

I will mention a couple of threats that no longer exist now, as a result of the Iraq intervention:

1.) UNOFF program - it was costing the world billions (US) and SH was putting a lot of that money into his war chest.

What fucking war chest? He had no army (2 week war remember that). He had no WMD. He had no pilotless attack drones. He had nothing we said he had!!!


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2.) Libya's WMD programs.

Which a) we didn't know about and b) were given up as a result of British negotiations and 20 years of sanctions


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3.) The vast underground WMD superstore supported through Libya

I guess you've missed the big headlines on all news sources--except newsmax--that these WMD's didn't exist.


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4.) SH's threat to Israel
5.) SH's threat to Kuwait
6.) SH's threat to the Kurds

It's our job to protect Isreal from a toothless dog. Do you not understand that SH HAD ZERO FUCKING WMD and no attack capability.

Also, Kuwait/Kurds: The two US submarines and one US carrier in the Gulf at all times played a big role in SH no attacking these countries places. Add the constant US warplane coverage and you'll see the Kurds were safe. Now place the costs of containment on one side of the scale and the costs of war on the other. Human lives and $$$. War loses out no matter what you say/feel/believe because the FACTS trump your feelings.

Quote:
7.) SH's threat to any of his own people that even looked at him funny.

What about all the other bad men in power then? Should we wage costly wars to impose or brand of freedom upon them if they like it or not? BTW hom many inocnet Iraqis have died over the last 18 months?


Quote:
8.) SH's constant and consistent treats toward the US and it's allies, in virtually every speech he gave since 1990.

Please... Who the fuck cares about a "Threat" Kim Jumg Ill threatenes us all the time. The growl of a tootless dog is just that--a growl.

Quote:
I could go on, but what is the point? You're already addicted to the DNC Kool-aid.

This from a Jim Jones Bush follower.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #106 of 125
10/7/04 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
You have a lot of nerve.

How the hell would you know what 'straight thinking people see,' Clinton Body Count?

Amusing how you cling to those sophomoric tactics.

Stick your right hand thumb and your pointer finger out at 90 degrees from each other and place that on your forehead. Look in mirror. Wave hello to yourself.
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post #107 of 125
10/7/04 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I will mention a couple of threats that no longer exist now, as a result of the Iraq intervention:

1.) UNOFF program - it was costing the world billions (US) and SH was putting a lot of that money into his war chest.

You've mentioned the oil for food program a couple of times in recent threads...I'd be very interested to see where your information is coming from. Can you provide sources for the following assertions?

- The oil for food program was costing the world billions.

- That a significant portion of these billions was coming from the US.

- That Saddam Hussein was putting the money he skimmed into weapons development / stockpiling.


Cause it really seems to me like you are pulling these facts right out of your own arse. But hey, I'm open to learning something new.
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post #108 of 125
10/7/04 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Amusing how you cling to those sophomoric tactics.

WTF are you on? You come out of nowhere attacking me with "You have just proved yourself a parrot." STFU.
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Stick your right hand thumb and your pointer finger out at 90 degrees from each other and place that on your forehead. Look in mirror. Wave hello to yourself.

WTF are you even talking about? You're the one that buys into any crap geocities conspiracy theory you can find. And you have the nerve to say I use 'sophomoric tactics.' You are just making totally random stupid statements.

Go pick fights with someone else.
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post #109 of 125
10/7/04 at 9:47am
Nick, what in the hell do you expect France and Germany to say? Sure, we'll send in troops if Kerry gets elected? That would be pretty dumb of them, and it would be bad for Kerry as well, because it would look like France and Germany are manipulating the election, which they would be - and YOU would be the first to point that out.
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post #110 of 125
10/7/04 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Amusing how you cling to those sophomoric tactics.

Stick your right hand thumb and your pointer finger out at 90 degrees from each other and place that on your forehead. Look in mirror. Wave hello to yourself.


Talk about sophomoric!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #111 of 125
10/7/04 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I stated what I believe. You can choose to adopt any view you wish.

I will mention a couple of threats that no longer exist now, as a result of the Iraq intervention:

1.) UNOFF program - it was costing the world billions (US) and SH was putting a lot of that money into his war chest.
2.) Libya's WMD programs.
3.) The vast underground WMD superstore supported through Libya
4.) SH's threat to Israel
5.) SH's threat to Kuwait
6.) SH's threat to the Kurds
7.) SH's threat to any of his own people that even looked at him funny.
8.) SH's constant and consistent treats toward the US and it's allies, in virtually every speech he gave since 1990.

I could go on, but what is the point? You're already addicted to the DNC Kool-aid.

If we attacked everyone who fit this discription in the world ( or even close to it ) we'd be busy around the clock!

Get real! Lots of figures in the world hate the U.S. and threaten their neighbors but we didn't attack them. But, we've already been over all of this.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #112 of 125
10/7/04 at 12:50pm
What about Cuba for Christ's sake!!! How dare Fidel Castro threaten the us with his-----WORDS!!!

<chant_until_lungs_hurt>Bomb Cuba.</chant_until_lungs_hurt>

Seriously Naples, how do you justify the war? The reasons you gave don't cut it by a long shot. The fellowship of the shrub is failing due to the lies. Weak reasons for war. Poorly executed post-war. Troops are dying. Inocent Iraqis are dying. AQ recruiting has skyrocketed. Terrorist attacks have gone up. Violence in Iraq is escallating. How do you truely justify this?
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #113 of 125
10/7/04 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
WTF are you on? You come out of nowhere attacking me with "You have just proved yourself a parrot." STFU.

WTF are you even talking about? You're the one that buys into any crap geocities conspiracy theory you can find. And you have the nerve to say I use 'sophomoric tactics.' You are just making totally random stupid statements.

Go pick fights with someone else.

Look, lets put this to rest right now.

The thread where that was brought up was discussing controversies involving presidents, if memory serves. I simply pointed out that there are people that believe in such conspiracy theories such as the "Clinton Body Count" line of thought, and not all of them are big dummies as you would like everyone to believe. And the link that I was from here originally. A respected radio personality from pittsburgh:

http://www.warroom.com/

I never said that I bought into the whole conspiracy, just that it existed and seems to persist, despite you calling it "kooky" or whatever.

Move on.

Is it one of those keywords that makes the utterer a "Kook"? If so you have said the keyword ten fold over me.

I will say it again... Sophomoric, on your part.

EDIT: Fixed spelling so that the peanut gallery would settle down.
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post #114 of 125
10/7/04 at 1:34pm
I hear giant is a great cook - he bakes a delicious cooky
eye
bee
BEE
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eye
bee
BEE
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post #115 of 125
10/7/04 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
What about Cuba for Christ's sake!!! How dare Fidel Castro threaten the us with his-----WORDS!!!

<chant_until_lungs_hurt>Bomb Cuba.</chant_until_lungs_hurt>

Seriously Naples, how do you justify the war? The reasons you gave don't cut it by a long shot. The fellowship of the shrub is failing due to the lies. Weak reasons for war. Poorly executed post-war. Troops are dying. Inocent Iraqis are dying. AQ recruiting has skyrocketed. Terrorist attacks have gone up. Violence in Iraq is escallating. How do you truely justify this?

The problem is that many US conservatives feel they have the obligation to support Bush whatever he did.

If Bush lost the elections, I am ready to bet, that some conservatives voices will be more vocal against the Iraq war. Powell for example was not very big for this war, but he was obliged to follow the president and neo cons line. Unfortunately he was not brilliant at this game, and he lost credibility : bad for a man who derserved more than this.
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post #116 of 125
10/7/04 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
I hear giant is a great cook - he bakes a delicious cooky

Mmmmmmm. kookies.

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post #117 of 125
10/7/04 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
What about Cuba for Christ's sake!!! How dare Fidel Castro threaten the us with his-----WORDS!!!

<chant_until_lungs_hurt>Bomb Cuba.</chant_until_lungs_hurt>

Seriously Naples, how do you justify the war? The reasons you gave don't cut it by a long shot. The fellowship of the shrub is failing due to the lies. Weak reasons for war. Poorly executed post-war. Troops are dying. Inocent Iraqis are dying. AQ recruiting has skyrocketed. Terrorist attacks have gone up. Violence in Iraq is escallating. How do you truely justify this?

War is hell.

But the time is past to justify it. It is underway and you either win or lose. If you back away you loose. If you show uncertainty, you lose. If you show weakness, you lose.

Terrorist attacks will go up because of the bold attack on 9/11. It was a victory for radical Islam. Who is to say that if not for Iraq, the US mainland would have sustained even more attacks. Who is to say that 9/11 isn't the cause for the new recruits to AQ?

You seem to be more than willing to speculate in your favor, but not the other way.

As far as I am concerned, any tie with AQ is good enough reason to oust SH, given his vast history. There are many, many connections between AQ (and many other terrorist groups) and SH. Maybe not enough for you to consider SH a threat, but to me more than enough.

Not only that, the total disregard for human life and the atrocities committed by him, in itself, is also more than enough for me.

The UNOFF revelations are more than enough for me.

As far as Castro goes, is he developing WMD is AQ filtering in and out of his country at the aid of his government? Has he disregarded 17 UN resolutions? Has Castro dropped chemical weapons and wiped out whole towns?

You can't honestly justify bad actions with other bad actions? Well maybe you can. I can't.
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post #118 of 125
10/7/04 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
War is hell.

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post #119 of 125
10/7/04 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Mmmmmmm. kookies.


That was my first thought too.

Very funny. Homer is my hero
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post #120 of 125
10/7/04 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Homer is my hero

Why doesn't that surprise me?
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