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The First Debate

post #1 of 183
9/30/04 at 6:50pm
Thread Starter 
Wow. Bush has done WAY worse than I thought he would. Stuttering, stumbling, trying to look convincing (like he always does, squinting, pursing his lips) and faking looking sad about sending soldiers to die. I don't know how the GOP can spin his win but I'm sure they'll try.

Kerry was good, but needs energy. Edwards would whoop his ass...sigh...

I like this one: Bush goes "the only thing consistent in my opponent is that he keeps changing his positions."
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #2 of 183
9/30/04 at 6:58pm
um is it my perception or does bush come across
as really really arrogant ?
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post #3 of 183
9/30/04 at 6:59pm
He also comes of as stubborn when he speaks of his Iraq strategy.
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post #4 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
He also comes of as stubborn when he speaks of his Iraq strategy.

i think you mean petulant
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post #5 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:02pm
I'm sure a lot of pundits will somehow manage to spin this debate as a Bush win... but I don't know how.

By any objective standards, Kerry is whipping Bush's ass! Kerry sounds prepared and in charge, very presidential, and has solid arguments to make.

Bush is stumbling, bumbling, and sounds about as prepared as a high school kid who forgot to do his homework and got called on unexpectedly in class. His responses aren't amounting to much more than a half-dozen or so pre-memorized talking points and jibes that he can't even remember very well.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #6 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:03pm
Thread Starter 
Both. He is the worst: arrogant and ignorant. I've noticed they often go hand in hand. Sort of like the high-horse dumbass "conservatives" around here.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #7 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:04pm
Bush keeps singing the same song too. Kerry has laid out Bush's failings--about 20 of them so far--while Bush has be-bopped the Flip-flop line. Oh, remember, we didn't join the world court fella's.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #8 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:04pm
Thread Starter 
Nukeyular.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
post #9 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:05pm
Thread Starter 
I had to admit I was getting nervous, I thought he'd be slick. He's not. Only blind sheep would take him seriously in this debate. He is not doing well.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
post #10 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally posted by madmax559
i think you mean petulant

not yet but give him time.
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post #11 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:13pm
how did this guy become prez much less a govenor ?
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post #12 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:13pm
Thread Starter 
"...uh uh I just know how this world works."

Just like the conservative idiots on this board, full of unqualified one-liners that are just BS.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
post #13 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
"...uh uh I just know how this world works."

Just like the conservative idiots on this board, full of unqualified one-liners that are just BS.

"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #14 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:15pm
I actually think Bush is much better now than he was 4 years ago. He is making a lot of stupid mistakes as I would expect, but he seems to have learned the ability to actually respond to comments made by his opponent during the actual debate. He couldn't do that 4 years ago.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #15 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:17pm
WAY too many "it's tough" and "mixed message"s from Bush. Stop repeating them fr God's sake!

I find Bush's performance to be lacking, but I also have found both guys to be wothout the real substance I had hoped for, but not expected.

All in all it's going as I figured.

15 minutes to go...
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #16 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:24pm
Anybody want to take any bets that the post-debate spin over the next two weeks will be conjecture about what happened to Kerry's orange tan? It's be called Makeupgate!

I wouldn't put it past Ed Gillespie.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #17 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:26pm
Talking about N. Korea and Bush brings up Saddam!!! Idiot.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #18 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:27pm
Has anybody else noticed that Bush's camera never shakes, never moves, is always rock solid. Kerry's camera seems to have a case of the shakes. Plus the camera is constantly being raised, lowered, bouncing.

Fox?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #19 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
WAY too many "it's tough" and "mixed message"s from Bush.

Yeah but he kept calling them "mexed missages."
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post #20 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:41pm
Kerry smoked Bush. I was surprised at how pathetic Bush looked and sounded.

Kerry did quite well.

Kerry is mostly too liberal for me, but on foreign policy he wins over Bush. Now, lets see about Domestic. If he tries to out-hispander Bush in terms of an illegal alien amnesty and not cutting back legal immigration he will also be off my radar.

So as for now I will never pull the lever for Bush.
Whether I pull it for Kerry is still up in the air.
www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
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www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
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post #21 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:44pm
I don't think Bush understood the concept of kerry being against how bush has handled things. Every time kerry made that point bush said "but you supported them in the first place"
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #22 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:50pm
Bush lost the debate.

Bush failed.

Kerry spoke very well and I will most likely support Kerry in November.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #23 of 183
9/30/04 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Anybody want to take any bets that the post-debate spin over the next two weeks will be conjecture about what happened to Kerry's orange tan? It's be called Makeupgate!

I wouldn't put it past Ed Gillespie.

Actually Kerry tried with his usual spin to criticize from all sides and ended up sounding like an idiot.

For example he criticizes the President for using Afghan troops to pursue Osama instead of our own. (Called it outsourcing) Then he claims he basically wants to outsource the war on Iraq by using Iraqi troops along with the troops of allies, while bring our own troops home.

I mean are we really going to believe that Afghan warlords are bad, but somehow Iraqi warlords are going to be good for us with regard to pursuing and ending terrorism?

The point is pursuing and ending terrorism is going to eventually be done with the various trained troops within these self-governing countries. However Kerry again shows how he can't really build up and instead must rip or tear down. Allies we have are the coalition of the bribed, those who didn't come along will under him, even while the say they won't. Troops who assist our troops are untrained warlords, who he will be glad to use just as soon as he is in office. Prime ministers in these countries are puppets. Treaties, like Kyoto, which Kerry voted against are signs that we have lost respect in the world.

Not a bit of it convincing.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #24 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Actually Kerry tried with his usual spin to criticize from all sides and ended up sounding like an idiot.

For example he criticizes the President for using Afghan troops to pursue Osama instead of our own. (Called it outsourcing) Then he claims he basically wants to outsource the war on Iraq by using Iraqi troops along with the troops of allies, while bring our own troops home.

I mean are we really going to believe that Afghan warlords are bad, but somehow Iraqi warlords are going to be good for us with regard to pursuing and ending terrorism?

The point is pursuing and ending terrorism is going to eventually be done with the various trained troops within these self-governing countries. However Kerry again shows how he can't really build up and instead must rip or tear down. Allies we have are the coalition of the bribed, those who didn't come along will under him, even while the say they won't. Troops who assist our troops are untrained warlords, who he will be glad to use just as soon as he is in office. Prime ministers in these countries are puppets. Treaties, like Kyoto, which Kerry voted against are signs that we have lost respect in the world.

Not a bit of it convincing.

Nick

AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

YOU WERE FUCKING OWNED!
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post #25 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Actually Kerry tried with his usual spin to criticize from all sides and ended up sounding like an idiot.

For example he criticizes the President for using Afghan troops to pursue Osama instead of our own. (Called it outsourcing) Then he claims he basically wants to outsource the war on Iraq by using Iraqi troops along with the troops of allies, while bring our own troops home.

I mean are we really going to believe that Afghan warlords are bad, but somehow Iraqi warlords are going to be good for us with regard to pursuing and ending terrorism?

The point is pursuing and ending terrorism is going to eventually be done with the various trained troops within these self-governing countries. However Kerry again shows how he can't really build up and instead must rip or tear down. Allies we have are the coalition of the bribed, those who didn't come along will under him, even while the say they won't. Troops who assist our troops are untrained warlords, who he will be glad to use just as soon as he is in office. Prime ministers in these countries are puppets. Treaties, like Kyoto, which Kerry voted against are signs that we have lost respect in the world.

Not a bit of it convincing.

Nick

"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #26 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:05pm
I don't know whether Bush or Kerry won the debate, but I think Kerry won the swing votes.

You're either voting Bush or not Bush. Kerry presented a strong enough image to vote for. He got lots of little jabs in and Bush wasn't his usual cocky self. Bush seemed overly upset and not calm and collected. So if they appeared as equals or near equals, that's good enough for you to vote for Kerry if you have doubts about Bush. He was much stronger than he appears in the newspapers.
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post #27 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:07pm
>For example he criticizes the President for using Afghan troops to pursue Osama instead of our own. (Called it outsourcing) Then he claims he basically wants to outsource the war on Iraq by using Iraqi troops<

You need to look up the word OUTsource. Iraqi soldiers happen to be in........Iraq
www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
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www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
Reply
post #28 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally uttered by Bush
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post #29 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
>For example he criticizes the President for using Afghan troops to pursue Osama instead of our own. (Called it outsourcing) Then he claims he basically wants to outsource the war on Iraq by using Iraqi troops<

You need to look up the word OUTsource. Iraqi soldiers happen to be in........Iraq

You mean.... we're... not taking over Iraq??
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post #30 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant

You left out the silent pause before that
www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
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www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
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post #31 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:13pm
Call me kooky but when they showed Bush during the split screens while Kerry was speaking he looked like this:



to me.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #32 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
You left out the silent pause before that

and stamping fists on the desk

FOUR MORE WEEKS! FOUR MORE WEEKS! FOUR MORE WEEKS! FOUR MORE WEEKS!
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post #33 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
and stamping fists on the desk

And Deer caught in the headlights stare
www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
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www.numbersusa.com
www.fairus.org
www.usenglish.org
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post #34 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:20pm
Debate! if the word has ever sunk to a new low, we had it here tonight. The questions were pre-screened, soft-soapers...and both parties avoided the really gnarly issues.

The debate was quite even....neither party smoked the other.

The most noticeable thing was the lighting. If any of you noticed, the lighting on Bush was soft and golden, and Kerry looked harsh and grayed out. Or was it the makeup job?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #35 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:20pm
I think the lack of Scott, SDW, Naples, etc here at the moment is very telling.

Even the ignorants know when they're owned.

Run and hide mofo's

"Your world is crumbling"
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post #36 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
I think the lack of Scott, SDW, Naples, etc here at the moment is very telling.

Beat me to it.
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post #37 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
The questions were pre-screened, soft-soapers...

Yet Bush couldn't even speak properly.
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post #38 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
I think the lack of Scott, SDW, Naples, etc here at the moment is very telling.

Even the ignorants know when they're owned.

Run and hide mofo's

"Your world is crumbling"

I think that there are so many people here right now in the first place is also very telling.
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #39 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
I think the lack of Scott, SDW, Naples, etc here at the moment is very telling.

Even the ignorants know when they're owned.

Run and hide mofo's

"Your world is crumbling"

Watching the debate again on video, I reckon Kerry had a small edge. But it's not going to make much of a difference re. the election, which is what counts. Its almoist a certainty that it's going to be Bush for another 4 years, not that I look forward to that outcome.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #40 of 183
9/30/04 at 8:35pm
  • rok
  • the Casbah
anyone catch the daily show's review of the debate? i mean, clark and guiliani sure had different views on how the debate went, huh?

p.s. if the democratic election crew has two licks of sense among them, they had better have picked up on one crucial detail:

bush does not like to be told he is wrong to his own face. you can see it gets under his skin quickly, and the role of the challenger to an incumbent is to say that the current direction is wrong, so george had better get a thicker skin FAST. i see the democrats seeing a seam in the armor and hitting it for all they're worth now.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
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