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Apple to announce 4G iPod with color display, report confirms

post #1 of 105
Thread Starter 
Apple Computer is set to finally unveil its rumored high-end photo-savvy iPod.

Apple news and rumor site ThinkSecret claims that Apple Computer will introduce an iPod with photo-viewing capabilities within the next 30 to 60 days, further corroborating an AppleInsider report published earlier this year.

According to the rumor site, the player will now sport a 60GB drive rather than the previously rumored 50GB. Other details remain the same including a 2-inch color liquid crystal display, audio/video-out capabilities, and a suggested retail price of $499.

The web site adds that the player will also feature synchronization with Apple's iPhoto application.

Word of the color LCD equipped 4th generation (4G) iPod first broke in March, but when Apple Computer introduced its 4G iPods in August, the purported model was curiously missing from its offerings.

No precise introduction date was reported.
post #2 of 105
it is interesting, as this will becoming really popular, whereas the features are already out, but not in iPod form

this will be amazoing. The ability to just hit a slideshow anywhere... be great
post #3 of 105
Congrats to AI on getting this scoop in March. I hope it's true (and not TOO bulky) because I want one!

Think of what people already do all the time: show photos to friends on a camera's own tiny, low-quality LCD. I use my 1.6" LCD all the time for that.

Now the iPod adds:

* Easy navigation of tons of photos

* More photos than your camera alone can show

* Slideshows with music! Including NON-photo presentations like screens from Keynote!

* Output to TV. (Some cameras have that, some don't--it's great!)

* Easy synching (at least for Mac... PC users can drag photos in if nothing else)

And album art display wouldn't hurt either. Hook your iPod to your stereo AND your TV
post #4 of 105
Man no point in posting threads first if AI doesnt look to see if they have already been done !
post #5 of 105
I hope that it'll have video playback capabilleties.

It would be really nice no to have to bring along 15-20 DVD/CDs every time it's my turn to bring along movies for the movienights with my friends. Instead (if I could afford one) I'd just rip my DVDs and download the movies that I or my friends would want to see onto the iPod and bring that along. Then it just a question of connecting it to the TV, perhaps showing some quick previews on the LCD beforehand and off we go.
post #6 of 105
If they've had the sense to let you download images directly from a digital camera it'll be worhtwhile. Of course, ideally that would mean a USB and/or firewire port right on the device. Don't see that happening.
post #7 of 105
Does this mean iPhoto for windoze?
post #8 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by darkestbeforedawn
Does this mean iPhoto for windoze?

Damn good question! I hadn't even thought about that...
post #9 of 105
darkestbeforedawn has the best question of all the posts I've seen on any site about this.

I honestly believe that iPhoto for windows will be part of the announcement ... for these simple reasons:

1. Apple stresses that the iPod is for Mac and PC.

2. Apple is not going to split the line of iPods. This is still and iPod. Perhaps the slogan will go something like ... the best just got better.

3. Adobe just released/announced Photoshop Elements 3. They themselves call it the perfection companion to iPhoto. But elements is much more popular on the PC side because it includes Photoshop Album, which is the WIndows version of iPhoto for all practical purposes.

4. You just can't tell me that this will be a Mac only product. Even if there is no iPhoto for Windows announcement, one has to assume it's coming.

I"m a 100 percent Mac person, but Apple's foray into digital picture on both platforms is a win-win in every way.

All that's missing is my post from a year ago. Where is the Apple picture frame. This is the start of it.

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: (many, but here's a few)

1. Is there a chance this will be wireless? Wifi via Airport Express type of deal?

2. Some way to get the memory card to read into the iPod. As a photographer who carries around 3 1GB cards, this is a dream.
post #10 of 105
If you are going to have iphoto support in the new iPod, then I think a natural progression after that would be iMovie support too.

Wouldnt it be cool to have your iMovies on your iPod too, but not so much to view them on your iPod, but to connect your ipod up to a Tv and use the ipod as a portable playback unit. The screen can be used like the small lcd screen is used on a vid camera, purely for reference, but for proper viewing it will just play directly on your tv, now to me that would be cool and better justify the entire product.

However photos for a start is great. I travel alot and I know it would be cool to have my photos on my ipod so that when I am missing my loved ones I can look at their pics aswell as listen to my fave music at the same time.
post #11 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by legaleagle
1. Is there a chance this will be wireless? Wifi via Airport Express type of deal?

Awesome. All we need is an A|X 2.0 that includes video out. Even if the bandwidth isn't enough to support full video, it would be enough to support photo display and info display, i.e. track info for iTunes/iPod. Awesome. And not too far from what we already have.
post #12 of 105
Re Windows iPhoto: maybe, but not necessarily. PC users already must manually drag-and-drop for some non-music features like Address Book. It's not as nice as on Mac but they can still use the feature. So this could work the same way--with third parties stepping in to streamline the process.

Re wireless: I doubt it. The iPod already IS wireless in that it doesn't need to communicate with other devices during its primary operation. And you don't need to synch your music constantly anyway. And the dock makes connection easy when the time comes--you have to charge anyway after all. And Firewire is faster than wireless. (Yes there ARE uses for wireless, but not of widespread core usefulness to justify the cost.)

Re video: The iPod doesn't have the processing power to decode real quality video. (These new Windows gizmos don't either: blown up to TV size, the movies look terrible.) I doubt Apple will include any video ability if it can't be used well.

Re all of those things one day... very likely. But not this time around I don't think. The time has not come.
post #13 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by legaleagle
3. Adobe just released/announced Photoshop Elements 3. They themselves call it the perfection companion to iPhoto. But elements is much more popular on the PC side because it includes Photoshop Album, which is the WIndows version of iPhoto for all practical purposes.


Maybe Apple could let Adobe make Photoshop Album update Windowz iPods and therefore keep the good software for us, and also help heal the rift between Apple and Adobe?
post #14 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by nagromme

Re video: The iPod doesn't have the processing power to decode real quality video. (These new Windows gizmos don't either: blown up to TV size, the movies look terrible.) I doubt Apple will include any video ability if it can't be used well.

Are you sure about that? PDA-CPUs these days offer a pretty good performance. And the resolution of DVD quality video is not that high.

But unless Apple does open an iTMS equivalent for video, I do not think we will be seeing video capabilities: by most countries' copyright laws circumventing a method of copy protection is illegal - in some EU countries it even is a criminal act.

Further more, I don't think that today's (iPod sized)batteries are capable of handling long movies yet.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mickster

If they've had the sense to let you download images directly from a digital camera it'll be worhtwhile. Of course, ideally that would mean a USB and/or firewire port right on the device. Don't see that happening.

That would be a very cool feature. They basically already have a FW/USB-port on the iPod - the dock connector - they just need to add the additional controller hardware.

And since the small USB-plugs that go into cameras follow a standard, Apple could develop a simple cable/adapter.
post #15 of 105
First, let's get serious here. No offense to AI and its staff, but unless you can guarantee that ThinkSecret's sources are completely separate from yours, one rumor site really can't 'confirm' another rumor site's postings. For all we know, the information is coming from the same flawed CIA report (you know, "Hey, there's WMD in iraq. And, over in the US, Apple is about to release a color iPod with A/V out".

As to the 'wishes' (read, 'dreams') of the other posters, I think a few things can be shot down quickly.

1) Its not going to have wireless capabilities. Wireless is power expensive. Adding the capabilities to the iPod would mean you either lose ALL your battery life quickly, or you need a bigger and better battery. And, then, what would it get you in terms of REAL benefit (not just a 'cool' factor)? Very little you couldn't do over just connecting a cable.

2) There isn't going to be an iPhoto for Windows. Reasons:
a) when it was released, it was touted as an example of what could be done quickly with Cocoa. Its a true cocoa app. To get it to work on windows, they'd have a real porting job on their hands (whether it be re-writing iPhoto or updating the Yellow Box).

b) Who on the PC side is going to buy iPhoto for windows? There's already a slew of cheaper/better alternatives on the Windows side (you may not think they're better, but most do a lot more with photos than iPhoto, with just as good a job, if not better, of organizing them - many people still don't like iPhoto's organization). And they can't give it away for free. Because if they did, you'll have a Mac riot on your hands for all those people who paid good money for iLife to get iPhoto.

My advice is to just take the report as it is and stop trying to come up with how its going to be this, that, and the other thing, as you're just going to get disappointed in the end (sorry, but when everyone starts talking about how an iPod with wifi would be cool, and playing movies in the backyard while listening to some itunes, and then you find out it only does photos, and its not wireless, everyone just goes "Geesh, that's all, no one will buy that!")
post #16 of 105
well, the A/V out will be the same as the headphone jack, like it is on so many appliances already.

If it had bluetooth, that would be awesome... but think about having to carry around the A/V cords with you, that is a hassle.
post #17 of 105
So... will you be able to plug in your camera phone, upload the pictures to iPhoto in iPod then synchronize that with your local Mac's or PC's iPhoto library? I think viewing pictures (and/or movies) on a small iPod screen isn't that compelling, but having these devices all speak to one another is much more compelling instead.

I could see Apple making this iPhoto compatibility Mac-only at first and either broker some deal with Adobe to hook into Photo Album or someone else for PCs in the meantime. Remember Apple partnered with MusicMatch for a while when they started making iPods for Windows, and introduced iTunes much, much later.
post #18 of 105
this new ipod sounds cool, but if you have a laptop then its kinda pointless. also, some digital cameras (like Sony Cybershots, have a video out port/cable and a slideshow mode. So i hope it works well for apple, but there are countless "other options" out there.
post #19 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
2) There isn't going to be an iPhoto for Windows. Reasons:
a) when it was released, it was touted as an example of what could be done quickly with Cocoa. Its a true cocoa app. To get it to work on windows, they'd have a real porting job on their hands (whether it be re-writing iPhoto or updating the Yellow Box).

Well, you could argue that the most important aspect of iPhoto is its dependence on Quicktime. iPhoto is a Cocoa app, but it has a lot of custom classes and elements too, so I'm not sure if it's UI is so dependent on Cocoa since it's not using standard libraries and IB elements, though obviously it's structured the same way.

Quote:
b) Who on the PC side is going to buy iPhoto for windows?

Who said anything about buying iPhoto? iTunes is a free download in itself, and iPhoto, if it is coming out for the PC, would come on this new iPod's software CD anyway.

Now, the question that brings up is, what's the profit for Apple -- the Photo printing and book services?

Quote:
My advice is to just take the report as it is and stop trying to come up with how its going to be this, that, and the other thing, as you're just going to get disappointed in the end...

Well, it's fun to speculate, but there are definitely people who invest too much emotionally in this speculation.
post #20 of 105
Heres my thoughs on the question.

The OS the iPod uses has been updated to include stuff like PixtBridge. An updated color-screen iPod might have the following:

1. Import pictures straight from camera to iPod (USB)
2. Print directly from iPod to Canon, Epson and HP printers (USB)
3. Include Video out to be able to show pictures on TV, etc
4. Integrate with Keynote so that you can now keep your presentations on your iPod to connect to a projector, etc
5. Port Keynote to Windows, or at least include a .ppt -> Keynote converter app
6. Include iPod to iPod image copying of single images and albums
7. On-The-Go album creating for slideshows
8. Display album cover art in the background while playing tunes on the iPod (very "transparent" in the background). Adds appealing visual feedback

No WiFi or video. Dont think thats really sellable and neccessary. Its cool to watch videos on hand held devices, but the effect weares off. Including the possibility to show images and to use the iPod as a slide preseter is handy for a lot of music... plus you can easily add music to your iSlides
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In the real world, ignorance is truly a bliss.
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post #21 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Who said anything about buying iPhoto? iTunes is a free download in itself, and iPhoto, if it is coming out for the PC, would come on this new iPod's software CD anyway.

Now, the question that brings up is, what's the profit for Apple -- the Photo printing and book services?

Yes, but like I said, if PC people are getting it for free, I, as a long-time mac user, damn well better be able to get it for free as well. The stink that so many raised when Apple had the 'gall' to charge for iLife was bad enough, now they're going to come out and charge for iLife, but let PC people get its pieces for no charge? Like I said, there'll be rioting in the streets. (Hell, if Apple reverses course and gives away iPhoto4 to mac users, the iLife buyers will riot in the streets. I think anyway you cut it, cars will be burning).

And if you want to sepculate on something of consequence, how about whether apple will be announcing this pre-christmas buying season, or will they save it for MWSF, which will just piss off every ipod gift receivee out there. And if they do announce it for the xmas season, will they (a) actually ship it before then, and (b) actually have any supply to fill demand (history says "No" to both questions).

But since I'm still waiting for that headless-iMac to replace my Beige G3, that set-top box apple's been working on since Steve Jobs took over a century ago, not to mention a computer that has the style, elegance, and portability of the original Apple portable, I'm not getting my hopes high. (Although I'm writing in my prediction of a release date into my iWalk, and going to call my Apple store on my iPhone to see what they have to say).

(Of course, if apple were to release a set-top box, the rumor sites would love it, because they could all lead their articles with "As we first reported back in 1998....".
post #22 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by nagromme

Re video: The iPod doesn't have the processing power to decode real quality video. (These new Windows gizmos don't either: blown up to TV size, the movies look terrible.) I doubt Apple will include any video ability if it can't be used well.

Re all of those things one day... very likely. But not this time around I don't think. The time has not come. [/B]

If this new device retains pretty much the current form factor, I can't see it having video capabilites. As you've pointed out, processing power is lacking.
Harking back to the old days of the original Mac, perhaps it'll be called a iPod Plus...the "Plus" for photos.

However, I could see video a possibility if the device is larger say like the size of an old Newton 2100
post #23 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by satchmo
...perhaps it'll be called a iPod Plus...the "Plus" for photos.

what, no iPod EXTREME????

anyway, i have withheld purchasing this sucker until i felt that Apple had made more of an revolutionary leap than an evolutionary one, and i feel this is it. the controls and capacity were simply feature updates, but the addition of a color display AND to show images natively hearkens a new era of what can be done with this unit. images of contacts, album art, photos from a trip, keynote slides, etc., etc., etc. and wasn't apple recently soliciting developers for software for the ipod? or did i dream that?

basically, i needed something to warrant plunking down half-a-thousand-dollars on something that would fit in my pocket. think about that. UNDERSTAND that.
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

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post #24 of 105
It won't be wireless
It won't play videos
...yet
The processor(s) onboard do actually have MPEG2 playback capability but this is not where Apple is going. We will have to wait until QT7/Tiger for the HVAC codecs. Third parties will have to take care of direct camera syncing, wireless etc. 80gig video out in a year's time?

I really, really hope it can play Keynote presentations (Keynote 2?)

A 2" screen is actually perfectly acceptable for personal viewing if it is of suitable quality; Apple is unlikely to screw up that particular aspect.

Apple's strategy is fantastic. Features are added at a very disciplined pace to ensure that the now considerable iPod 'community' and mass market can comfortably accept new functionality whilst retaining the whole simple device ethos. Apple are like the Sony of old; before Sony fell into the Japanese manufacturers trap of adding complexity and 20 variations of each product every 3 months.

Needless to say this will sell in truckloads.

iPhoto for PC is unlikely as it uses the Quartz/Open GL libraries for scaling etc. The PC would need Longhorn for that. There are plenty of freebee libraries on the PC side.
post #25 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by vinney57
iPhoto for PC is unlikely as it uses the Quartz/Open GL libraries for scaling etc. The PC would need Longhorn for that. There are plenty of freebee libraries on the PC side.

four words:

google, picasa, strategic partnership

*microsoft loses bowel control*
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #26 of 105
I still don't think that a color screen or iPhoto slideshows are necessary
or a major upgrade. Honestly, how often are you showing photos to people?
Would showing photos from a little color screen be that impressive? If
anything I would have expected:

Greyscale Screen
Powerful New Battery (20+ hours)
Integrated AM-FM Radio (useful at ballgames & at the gym)
Different Color Options like the Minis
New games or mini-apps that you can download from Apple.com

As for video, it would be sweet to be able to download shows from my directv
tivo to an iBook or Powerbook but I don't think it will happen for the iPod. If
it had a big screen like Sony's upcoming PSP, that would be a different story.

As for iPhoto for windows, I'd expect to see iChat with a compatible iSight
camera way before iPhoto.
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post #27 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Yes, but like I said, if PC people are getting it for free, I, as a long-time mac user, damn well better be able to get it for free as well. The stink that so many raised when Apple had the 'gall' to charge for iLife was bad enough, now they're going to come out and charge for iLife, but let PC people get its pieces for no charge? Like I said, there'll be rioting in the streets. (Hell, if Apple reverses course and gives away iPhoto4 to mac users, the iLife buyers will riot in the streets. I think anyway you cut it, cars will be burning).

Apple's legal team could incorporate the iPhoto + iTunes license into the purchase of the iPod, i.e. $500 buys you the iPod/accessories included, iTunes 4.x, iPhoto, QT. I don't think iPhoto free for the world is *too* far out there.
post #28 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
this new ipod sounds cool, but if you have a laptop then its kinda pointless. also, some digital cameras (like Sony Cybershots, have a video out port/cable and a slideshow mode. So i hope it works well for apple, but there are countless "other options" out there.

A laptop is too big to have with you everywhere--I'm often wanting to show photos of something and wishing I hadn't left my PB at home. And cameras have a very limited capacity--you have SOME of your photos, and the slideshows lack music.

I DO show photos on both my PB and my camera--often to TV in both cases. But there are big ways in which an iPod could do it better.

Quote:
Originally posted by mello
Honestly, how often are you showing photos to people?

All the time. Often on my camera's littled 1.6" screen. And people are always showing me photos the same way. Because people ALWAYS want to show photos... and sometimes you don't have a pocket full of prints or a laptop handy. And you're forgetting TV output too.

People will LOVE the idea of being able to show off any photo at any time. Set to their favorite music, no less.
post #29 of 105
dude, fucking if you want to show off your Keynote presentations that way, in Tiger you can make an Autormator actions to take the current Keynote, convert it to PDF, convert each PDF page to a single image, import into iPhoto, create a new album with the new photos. Sync with iPod.

I agree that people love to share photos, and this option is good enough for people.. add some zoom maybe, that is what people would like. iPhoto for windows is not too far fetched, and it incorporates the same idea of giving a product away, and then when people realize it is awesome start buying photos from the service...

hopefully
post #30 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by mello
I still don't think that a color screen or iPhoto slideshows are necessary
or a major upgrade. Honestly, how often are you showing photos to people?

I have found one of the best things in owning a powerbook is the portable iPhoto slide show (with music!). I think with the near ubiquitous nature of digital camaras, there are many folks who would love to have their slide show with them.
post #31 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Nebagakid
[Badd some zoom maybe, that is what people would like. [/B]

can you say "ken burns effect"?

hell, consider being able to put anything that can be in PDF format as displayable on the iPod and out via the video-out port. you've suddenly got a pretty mean info machine.

by the way, i assume having the click-wheel opens up some more game possibilities, since you could emulate an old-school directional pad, rather than n just the jog wheel paddle style of games (breakout).
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #32 of 105
I'd rather Apple just finished the iPod's music capabilities so that it had basic functionality... like, say, audio recording, rather than adding whiz-bang things like a color screen.
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post #33 of 105
Surprised none of you have inquired about this yet: what will be the MSRP of this iPod w/ display? $599 starting price? Or is it just coming with a 60GB? If it is, I'm thinkin $699 or something ridiculous like that.
Would it be possible to have iTunes on your iPod now? A color display can drastically change the current display setup on all iPods. I'm thinking though that a color display will drain the battery pretty nicely, so they may not use it for simple things like scrolling through your playlist.
post #34 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by CharlesS
I'd rather Apple just finished the iPod's music capabilities so that it had basic functionality... like, say, audio recording, rather than adding whiz-bang things like a color screen.

It's not worth it to add audio recording capability. It would add cost, weight, and mass for a feature that *most* iPod owners would never use. On the other hand, a high-res color display makes for a more pleasant UI, something that everyone can enjoy.
post #35 of 105
There is a way to get images directly onto the iPod w/o having to go through iPhoto. Belkin makes a media reader for the iPod and a camera connector.

What I think would be good is if there were a way to download on the fly from your camera phone. Maybe there is.
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"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
Reply
post #36 of 105
As much as I think the upgrades are worthwhile, I think Apple is missing out on some crucial functionality that can really drive music sales.
Add Bluetooth support to the iPod with the ability to allow people to connect to the iTunes Music Store via the data connection on their cell phones. The interface could be written purely in WAP 2.0, or they might consider deploying a J2ME application. On EDGE and EV-DO networks there would be enough bandwidth to allow instantaneous playback of purchased songs.
The carriers would love this, simply because it would finally spur some real data usage on their networks. Right now they're barely keeping out of the red trying to recoup the costs of the on-going 3G upgrades. It wouldn't be hard to convince these carriers to drop a link to the music store right at the top of their WAP homepages.
Anyway, that's what I think.
post #37 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by CharlesS
I'd rather Apple just finished the iPod's music capabilities so that it had basic functionality... like, say, audio recording, rather than adding whiz-bang things like a color screen.

You know, it really throws a wet blanket on the proceedings when you bust in here and start demanding reasonable things, Charles.






I just want a 60 GB drive and seamless track-to-track play. So many of my albums fade from one track to the next, and that *blip* pisses me off. Don't tell me to make the whole album one track, either. that's a stop-gap work-around to make up for a missing feature, and I don't always want to listen to the whole album. But when I do, well, I do.

Do what you will, but harm none.

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Do what you will, but harm none.

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post #38 of 105
I am surprised at the way people are dismissing Wifi capabilities. I have Airport Express hooked up to my home stereo. It's cool being able to play music off of my laptop through the external HD attached to my iMac. However, you know what would be the greeatest thing ever? If my iPod could play my tunes through Airport Express. That would be SO much better than having to carry the laptop around the house to DJ with. I'd take connectivity to Airport Express over a color screen, photo capabilities, or any of that other business. After Wifi, video playback is the next thing I'd like to see.
post #39 of 105
Some may remember my version of a photo iPod with video out capabilities posted many moons ago:

post #40 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
2) There isn't going to be an iPhoto for Windows. Reasons:
a) when it was released, it was touted as an example of what could be done quickly with Cocoa. Its a true cocoa app. To get it to work on windows, they'd have a real porting job on their hands (whether it be re-writing iPhoto or updating the Yellow Box).

b) Who on the PC side is going to buy iPhoto for windows? <snip> And they can't give it away for free. Because if they did, you'll have a Mac riot on your hands for all those people who paid good money for iLife to get iPhoto.

Hi,
a) When Apple bought Next they got Webobjects, running using Openstep. Webobjects now uses Cocoa and is still sold on Windows 2000 Server (http://www.apple.com/webobjects/specs.html). So you're right, there must be some work to make that subset of Cocoa work on Windows XP or they'd advertise Webobjects working on XP. Still, they have a solid base and Cocoa was designed to run cross platform, including Windows. If they make it work, other apps will be more easily ported too.

b) It would be a delicate move for Apple to make money and keep existing customers happy. Who knows how they'd do that. For instance, IF Apple doesn't want to give it away, you could have 4 ways to get iPhoto for windows:
- iPhoto comes free with iPod purchase
- iPhoto comes free with .Mac subscription
- HP bundles iPhoto with their computers
- iPhoto is sold standalone for $50

So - I don't think cocoa is a barrier, nor is the selling vs giving away something that would stop them. The politics of what they release on windows is more the barrier - where do they draw the line? Will iPhoto for Windows sell more iPods?
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