or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Afghanistan: election boycott
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Afghanistan: election boycott

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
So the democratic process in Afghanistan has descended into chaos. Imagine my shock.

15 of the candidates are boycotting because of the possibility of fraud.

Basically the problem is that each voters thumb is marked with an ink that is supposed to be indelible. Only it isn't - it can be washed off in seconds, thus allowing people to vote innumerable times.

Now, I'm not saying this is deliberate but it does raise some questions:

1) Wtf system is this ? Surely in Afghanistan of all places the west (yes) should make sure that the poll is above reproach - if they are going to talk the talk about bringing democracy they should sure as hell teach people how to do it properly.

2) The candidates boycotting the vote are anti-Karzai. This is significant. Let me put it another way:

Karzai (US puppet) is not boycotting. Therefore: he sees nothing inherently wrong in the system OR he is exploiting it.

This is what really hacks me off. Bush and Blair constantly yadda on about Afghanistan being 'on the road to freedom' and it's a ****ing lie.

It's very simple: Put these countries REALLY on the road to freedom - you gain some credibility points, you might even feel good and malcontents like me have to stfu......

Why the *** can't they just really do what they are lying about actually doing ? It can't be that difficult can it ?



Edit: forgot this link

Oh and can a mod change the title please: 'rigged' is misleading, untrue and totally unacceptable.

I apologise unreservedly. I don't know what came over me.

'Afghanistan: election boycott' is possibly more appropriate ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #2 of 33
segovius you didn't read carefully. Some of the polling places got the ink swapped and they are correcting it.

Seems to me the known losers are using it to toss a wrench into the process.
post #3 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
segovius you didn't read carefully. Some of the polling places got the ink swapped and they are correcting it.

Seems to me the known losers are using it to toss a wrench into the process.

That's not the point though is it ? The thing is that the situation should never have been allowed to arise IF the west were taking it's commitment to democracy seriously.

And what if this issue hadn't come to light ? Karzai would have cruised home, the whole thing would be hailed a glorious success and anyone who expressed any doubts would have been awarded a tin hat.

This is a classic example of how things are being run in this whole post-911 pantomime: the only thing about this example is that it is the 1 in 20 (100 ?) case where it hits the media so they have to do something about it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #4 of 33
Hmm. It has to be worrying, though, that the proces collapsed into a rubberstamp at the last minute. All 14 anti-Karzai candidates boycotted, and the 2 Karzai allies both withdrew in his favor the day before the election. So the first great test of Democracy in Afghanistan shows Karzai running against...himself. We'll see what impact all that has on how the legitamacy of the vote is perceived around the country.
post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
That's not the point though is it ? The thing is that the situation should never have been allowed to arise IF the west were taking it's commitment to democracy seriously.

...


So in your mind some afgans confusing some ink means that "west" was not "taking it's commitment to democracy seriously".


The sky is falling the sky is falling! Just like last time!
post #6 of 33
Segovius,

I've lived in both the Developed and the Third World. In every country I've ever seen, there are always a number of election irregularities, even in the best of countries.

While I applaud your concern for an airtight voting process, We need to understand that this is a country that has been cut off from modernization, even by Third World standards. There's naturally going to be some posturing, and there's no doubt who the U.S. would prefer to see in power.

I've heard doubts cast on the elections up here as well. I don't want to sound like I'm parroting Common Man, but I think the need to see Bush fail miserably is causing some people to sound like they want the Afghan elections to fail.

Bush could recover from such a setback, I'm not sure Afghanistan would.
The elections won't be perfect (I'm sure there are other problems as well), but they must be held and internationally recognized, even if the Afghan government doesn't have full control of the country outside Kabul.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #7 of 33
I for one think that it is a day to be celebrated, What is it, 25 million people are now part of the "free world"?

Congratulations and welcome Afghanistan!
post #8 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
So in your mind some afgans confusing some ink means that "west" was not "taking it's commitment to democracy seriously".


The sky is falling the sky is falling! Just like last time!


First see NaplesX comment below - I shall quote it for you so you don't have to scroll:

Quote:
I for one think that it is a day to be celebrated, What is it, 25 million people are now part of the "free world"?

Congratulations and welcome Afghanistan!

The Free World. Well, yes - the 'Free World' of dubious elections, zero morality, integrity or ethics and subservience to money above any and all considerations. In a way it's true.

Welcome ! Welcome to slavery !

Except Afghanistan has been a seat of civilization for thousands of years and (horribly) they may even have their own way of life.

I think they're going to tell you where to shove your 'freedom' - Oh look they have, that's what this thread's about.

Sky's falling: stop press Note this date - Scott is talking sense. Yes the sky IS falling (no, don't go and look outside it's a metaphor) - I mean your sky.

The cosy, safe, America is an Island, jobs for life, economic security, apple pie, everyone loves us, our leaders are trustworthy, God's in his heaven and all's right with the world sky is falling.....

All the symptoms you habitually blame on 'evildoers' are really just it all falling down.

Everything put together fall apart.

You should get out of denial and find a bunker. It's what your role-model leaders are doing.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #9 of 33
I'll take this over the Taliban trying to figure out the most Islamic way to execute gay men.
post #10 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I'll take this over the Taliban trying to figure out the most Islamic way to execute gay men.

You don't have to take it, you don't live in Afghanistan do you ?

Seems to me it's the people who live there's choice (although of course people like you want to make their choices for them) and guess what ? They'd choose the Taleban over your 'freedoms' - even though they mostly hate the Taleban.

But as usual you're out of the loop.

The Taleban are dead and gone - just a few ragtags still up in the hills like those soldiers in Burma who didn't know the war was over for a decade.

Bit like the wingers too really - still stuck in the Reagan era while the world has moved on.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #11 of 33
Yea? They chose the taliban while staring down the barrel of a rifle. You're making a lot of sense segovius.
post #12 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Yea? They chose the taliban while staring down the barrel of a rifle. You're making a lot of sense segovius.

The Taleban were really the remnants of the mujahidin who ousted the Russians - at that time they were 'good guys' because they were fighting 'Commies' and the bi-polar mindset hadn't then switched from the Reds to the Muslims. Of course now it has turned round again and the Russians are 'good' again purely because they oppose 'terror' - despite the fact that it's the same guys in control.

Whatever. When the Afghans didn't get any help rebuilding after the Ruskies buggered off (didn't get much help before really either) they turned inward and the mujahidin morphed into fundamentalists - I suppose they might have thought that defeating Russia was a divine miracle, which in a way it was.

No gun barrels there at that time. The abuses started a bit later.

But, it's all academic - if you observe my initial post I stated they'd choose the Taleban - ie they would a postulate following the conditions you'd arbritrarily set-up.

You're right though - it was a very stupid thing to say. The Taleban never did anything good for the Afghan people and 'they' was a silly generalisation. Even if this did happen I seriously doubt many Afghans would freely choose the Taleban so you're right to call it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #13 of 33
If you'll forgive the imprecisions that may have intruded in my reminescing.

During the Afghan Jihad, the various groups included among the Mujahidin were of various and diverse stripes, whether ethnically (Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara, etc.), religiously (the city dwellers tended to be more modernised, the rurals more traditional), or politically (Afghanistan was a place of political pluralism before the commie took over the place in the mid nineteen-seventies).
One of the biggest mistakes of the US during the war (and some minor officials in the administration I forget who had notice how misguided it was already at the time), is that they let their aid allocation be managed by the Pakistanis and the Saudis; these in turn propped up not the more active militarily, but those more attuned to their own political/religious agenda (the political being merged with the religious in the best tradition of Din wa Dawla), that's how extremists such Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Burhanuddin Rabbani became powerful. Others, more moderate commanders (like revered warrior Abdul Haq), were more likely to shed blood in battle than accumulate influence.

But aside of causing the death of more than a million within a few years, another far-reaching impact of the Soviet invasion was that some five to six millions fled the country, most of them to Pakistan, finding themsleves in makeshift camps, and completely severed from their social and traditional framework, and their young fell prey to the propaganda dished by Saudi-backed Madariss (singular: Madrassa) dispensing teachings very different from the old-time Afghan religion: Deobandi, with a good amount of Wahhabi thrown in.

In 1989, Soviet troops left Afghanistan, and overnight the US lost all interest. The war was still raging as the communist regime of Najibullah was still fighting, while cracks were beginning to appear among the Mujahidin (funds were not longer as abundant, and the various religiopolitical cheiftains were growing less agreeable to one another). But it was only in 1992 that Kabul fell, after one of Najibullah's own generals, the Uzbek Abdul Rashid Dostum. A junior officer given special forces who fought like Mujahidin and with thier own command structure autonomous from the rest of the Afghan army, Dostum switched sides (and not for the last time), which enabled the Mujahidin to overrun the capital.
Once the popular republic was no more, so was Mujahidin unity. As a the Islamic republic was declared, the various groups started fighting among themselves in several parts of the country (Kabul, Kandahar) while in others (Jalalabad, Herat) a local government kept the peace, with varying degrees of liberality (in Jalalabad for example, the faculty classrooms were attended by both male and female students).

One of the regions most harmed by the civil war was in and around Kandahar, one of the most backward corners in what was now one of the world's most shattered countries.

That's where Muhammed Omar returned from the war, in 1993. Seeing how the countryside and the people suffered from the warlords he gathered local boys along with a few other veterans he knew form way back, and deposed rather brutally a few local chiefs.
Having been schooled in a rather rudimentary fashion at the Paksitani Madariss, this original core of veternans, refugees, and Arghastan-river locals, called themsleves simply students in Arabic: Taliban.
Thus, while Mullah Omar and a few otherof the original Taliban were war veterans, there is neither identity nor continuity between the Mujahidin groups of the nineteen-eighties and the Taliban of the nineteen-nineties; actually once the Taliban became powerful, all the old Mujahidin united once again against them.

The Taliban imposed thier primitive order, based on an ideology very different from the tradition common among Afghans, but the folks found it far better than than the warlords' chaos, and the lack of liberal humanism was not cause for much objection in the Kandahar backwaters where life has always benn less than enlightened.
As Pakistani lorry drivers found the area far more suitable for work, the Pakistani, military, intelligence, and political apparatus (at the time headed by Mrs. Benazir Bhutto) decided to switch affinities from the Hekmatyars and the Massouds to the Taliban. With Pakistani help, the Taliban made quick advances, often co-opting, bribing, as well as fihting their rivals.
Soon the Mujahidin outfits (with their old bigwigs and commanders, Massoud, Hekmatyar, Dostum, et al) had no other option but to forgo their endless feuds and associate one again, not ot much avail: at the end of the nineteen-eighties their Northen Alliance was fighting desperately to keep a few scraps of the Northeast, hepled mostly by Russia.

Taliban rule imposed a very absolute, ruthless, and intolerant order, but it was order nonetheless, and that was something the exuasted population looked forward to after years of war. And while obviously no one asked the Afghans what they preferred, one should notice that among the Afghans refugees in Paksitan many voted with their feet and returned from Pakistan in the first years of Taliban rule. Unsurprisingly, whatever they hoped to find back home, they didn't.
For if the Mujahidin were only good at destroying and uprooting (although the communists were better at it), the Taliban were no good at all at building or growing anything, their brief episode was a disgrace, and soon everyone were tired of them, although the Pakistani and Saudi assistance gave them an overridng advantage over any other contender. It took the renewd involvment of the West on the side of Mujahidin for the Taliban to fall.

The older still look back fondly to the days before the war, before the coup and the king's fall, and might even catch themselves daydreaming about the king's return; the younger ones don't even have that.
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
Reply
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
Reply
post #14 of 33
Some reports from Kabul as given by the totalitarian mouthpiece from D.C.
Quote:
The Washington Post:
Afghan Election Concerns Subside
Several Candidates Back Off Assertions Of Voter Fraud
By Pamela Constable

KABUL, Afghanistan, Oct. 10 -- Controversy clouding Afghanistan's historic first presidential election eased Sunday when several major opposition candidates backed off from assertions that voter fraud and errors at polling places had rendered Saturday's vote meaningless and illegitimate.
[]
Robert Barry, who headed the European delegation monitoring the election, said the opposition candidates' demands to nullify the vote were "unjustified" and would "put into question the expressed will of millions of citizens." He called for a "thorough and transparent investigation" of the polling complaints and said they should be "dealt with as the law provides."

And as given by the tireless friend of the oppressed masses
Quote:
The Independent:
Stand against Afghanistan's 'ink-stained' election starts to crumble
By Justin Huggler in Kabul
11 October 2004

Afghanistan's historic election hung on a pot of ink in the end. Even as the ballot boxes from Saturday's presidential election were on their way to the counting stations, intensive talks were under way behind closed doors to persuade 15 opposition candidates to drop their boycott of the election over alleged vote fraud.
[]
Signs that the boycott was crumbling yesterday came when two of the opposition candidates said they were withdrawing from it and would call for an official investigation of the alleged irregularities instead. Six more hinted that they might follow suit. But the fear is that the damage to the election's credibility may already have been done.

International election monitors from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) conceded that the 15 opposition candidates' central accusation - that indelible ink used to mark voters' fingers and prevent them voting twice, had been faulty and washed off easily - was true.

But the head of the OSCE mission, Robert Barry, said: "The candidates' demand to nullify the election is unjustified and would not do service to the people of Afghanistan who came out, at great personal risk, to vote."

I guess that some of you would blame my fellow occult conspirators' masterfully damage-controlling that sitation too, given that we also control America, the global finances, and the precession of the equinoxes.

Now that's what I call hard work.
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
Reply
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
Reply
post #15 of 33
Yet another leftist attack has fizzled. The elections will be considered a success. There was no violance. The people of Afghanistan have spoken for the first time.

I don't think anything would make the left happier than for Afghanistan and Iraq to explode into all out civil war with millions of dead so they could say "see, Bush was wrong".
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
post #16 of 33
Thread Starter 
Meanwhile back on the planet:

UN to investigate election fraud
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #17 of 33
Let the investigation take place. A minor blip at best. I'm sure a noble international body like the UN will do a fair, thorough and effecient investigation.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
post #18 of 33
And one more thing:


Bush 55%
All others 45%
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
post #19 of 33
And now for the voice of reason:
No matter what past, present or future mistakes have been made or will be made, I for one am very happy that the Afghan people had their first election. It was flawed, and the winner was pre-determined, sure, but there was little-to-no violence, lotsa enthousiasm and a crucial step was made. So i guess the international community, lead by the US, deserves praise for this achievement.
Now, this shouldn't blind us from the harsh reality that stability, democracy and rule of law are still a long and bumpy road away. We recovered the ball, but we still have to score. So criticism that Afganistan is turning into the biggest dope-factory in the world, warlords are controlling big areas and the Bush administration loosing focus and not thinking of the long run (which seems a recurrent pattern in many US policies, i might add) are equally valid.
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
Reply
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
Reply
post #20 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
And one more thing:

Bush 55%
All others 45%

Umm, wrong thread, I'm not sure the people of Afghanistan really give a toss.

Meanwhile - you're argument seems to be:

There is no problem.

Democracy and Freedom are thriving.

It doesn't matter that the problem that doesn't exist is being investigated by the UN.

Whatever the (as yet unknown) result of the investigation into the (non-existent) problem it will show that the (non-existent) problem never existed and that 'Democracy and Freedom' are thriving.

I think you said it best first - the elections will be considered a success.

Just like Iraq.

You should have left it at that. It was as near as correct as you've ever been.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Bush 55%
All others 45%

Common Man seems SO sure of the exact percentage of votes - I gotta wonder if he has a relative working for Diebold or something...
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by SpcMs
And now for the voice of reason:
No matter what past, present or future mistakes have been made or will be made, I for one am very happy that the Afghan people had their first election.

The problem with fabricating elections is that the government will do what is necessary to stay in power and screw up the next round. Russia is an example and so is Pakistan. The international community with vested intrests are only trying to score brownie points with their own electorate by this election.
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
Reply
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
Reply
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Meanwhile back on the planet:

UN to investigate election fraud

Who was in charge of overseeing the election?

That's right Johnny! The answer is the UN itself.
post #24 of 33
I heard that the problems with the elections were minor. ABC news said so, so it HAS to be true.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #25 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I heard that the problems with the elections were minor. ABC news said so, so it HAS to be true.

You heard wrong.

The problems are major. Here is why:

many of the men elected to positions of power and backed by the US are (just like Alawi in Baghdad) war criminals. Here's the list of shame - Google for your own research on these men's US backed crimes.

Mohammed Fahim

Northern Alliance leader. Armed by the US to fight the Taleban - which he did. His forces committed large scale atrocities, hundreds of summary executions and rapes in Kabul.

Was Karzai's running-mate and VP but was dropped when word of his crimes got oiut. Only dropped though - no trial or justice planned and he will take a seat in local government.

Abdul Rasul Sayyaff

Opposed the Taleban so is seen as 'good'. However he is a radical fundamentalist with a track record of murder and war crimes. No problem there. He opposed the Taleban so he's A-OK.

He is ultra-conservative (imagine my shock) and has already appointed his own right-wing hardliners to positions of local power where they are eliminating any liberal voices - first with politics and if that fails, with more basic methods. Should please DMZ, Scott et al at least. Viva democracy.

Abdul Rashid Dostum

Nazi-esque warlord, murderer and special ally of the US. Runs his own large militia but unlike as-Sadr is completely on side with the Bush admin so he gets to rape and kill with impunity.

His special place in the Bush admin affections was earned by his opposition to the Taleban which in the west was promoted as 'allies fighting with us on the ground' but in Afghanistan was referred to more a a reign of terror involving mass rape, murder and torture. Sounds a bit like camp X-Ray.

Oh and did I forget to mention the billions of dollars of drugs business - all of it heading to an American city near you ?

Yep, Afghanistan's doing just fine - who's next for the treatment ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
You heard wrong.

The problems are major. Here is why:

many of the men elected to positions of power and backed by the US are (just like Alawi in Baghdad) war criminals. Here's the list of shame - Google for your own research on these men's US backed crimes.

Mohammed Fahim

Northern Alliance leader. Armed by the US to fight the Taleban - which he did. His forces committed large scale atrocities, hundreds of summary executions and rapes in Kabul.

Was Karzai's running-mate and VP but was dropped when word of his crimes got oiut. Only dropped though - no trial or justice planned and he will take a seat in local government.

Abdul Rasul Sayyaff

Opposed the Taleban so is seen as 'good'. However he is a radical fundamentalist with a track record of murder and war crimes. No problem there. He opposed the Taleban so he's A-OK.

He is ultra-conservative (imagine my shock) and has already appointed his own right-wing hardliners to positions of local power where they are eliminating any liberal voices - first with politics and if that fails, with more basic methods. Should please DMZ, Scott et al at least. Viva democracy.

Abdul Rashid Dostum

Nazi-esque warlord, murderer and special ally of the US. Runs his own large militia but unlike as-Sadr is completely on side with the Bush admin so he gets to rape and kill with impunity.

His special place in the Bush admin affections was earned by his opposition to the Taleban which in the west was promoted as 'allies fighting with us on the ground' but in Afghanistan was referred to more a a reign of terror involving mass rape, murder and torture. Sounds a bit like camp X-Ray.

Oh and did I forget to mention the billions of dollars of drugs business - all of it heading to an American city near you ?

Yep, Afghanistan's doing just fine - who's next for the treatment ?

You are a boob.

The elections went well, many more people turned out than expected. Whoever was elected was done so in a democratic way.

The election in Afghanistan and soon Iraq is more about the future than the past. So, in a region that has been riddled with violence and atrocities, the future is what is important.

It's not perfect and never will be, you and many here will find fault with anything and everything. Look here in the US, things are never perfect, yet we have one of, if not the best democracy on earth. I say it was a good and much needed first step in a long journey.

You seem to want to call things failures before it is appropriate to do so.

I will say it again, defeatist boob. I mean that in the nicest possible way.
post #27 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
You are a boob.

The elections went well.

That's what I said.

They went well for the US admin: all puppets, warlords and murderers successfully installed and the illusion of democracy ready to be fed to the sheeplike unthinking right-wing fanboys waiting in anticipation to lap it up.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #28 of 33
Sego,

Did you really think that full-blown western style democracy would take hold in Afghanistan in one quick step?

I'm sure some people elected after the U.S. Civil war had sections of the populace jumping up and down. One tribe's hero is another's criminal.

Seems you're faulting Bush for not being a miracle worker. Remember, this is a region of the planet where people regularly fought on BOTH sides of the same war and saw no ethical problems with it.

The road to freedom is a bumpy one. I'm happy for them.

BTW, here a Canadian election observer's take on the situation.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #29 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Sego,

Did you really think that full-blown western style democracy would take hold in Afghanistan in one quick step?

I'm sure some people elected after the U.S. Civil war had sections of the populace jumping up and down. One tribe's hero is another's criminal.

Seems you're faulting Bush for not being a miracle worker. Remember, this is a region of the planet where people regularly fought on BOTH sides of the same war and saw no ethical problems with it.

The road to freedom is a bumpy one. I'm happy for them.

BTW, here a Canadian election observer's take on the situation.

Let me get this straight Frank - you're happy that they are now being presided over by murderers and rapists who (like Alawi) are being rewarded for their crimes by being granted positions of power ?

Or do you just not believe it ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #30 of 33
Maybe I'm nuts, but I thought the point of the tread was whether FREE and FAIR elections were held, and whether they went well.

If ABC news' report, and the tangible absence of any reports since, are any indication -- the elections went just fine.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #31 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Maybe I'm nuts, but I thought the point of the tread was whether FREE and FAIR elections were held, and whether they went well.

If ABC news' report, and the tangible absence of any reports since, are any indication -- the elections went just fine.

The people doing the boycotting were the aforementioned war criminals amongst others - one was Karzai's running-mate as I said. They feared that they would somehow be 'ousted' - perhaps even by dubious means.

It seems that there fears were allayed and they called off the boycott 9reasons unknown - meetings secret) and oh look.....they didn't need to worry after all - they got in on a massive vote.

Did I mention they were war criminals ? Maybe the Afghans have short memories about people who murder and kill their families. That must be it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #32 of 33
Look at the funny man running in circles.
post #33 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Look at the funny man running in circles.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Afghanistan: election boycott