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The Making of the Terror Myth

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
If you are in the UK there is what promised to be a very interesting (and groundbreaking) documentary starting next Wednesday entitled The Power of Nightmares: the Rise of the Politics of fear.

This is incredible that in a prime time slot for three nights there is an in-depth exposure by a leading film-maker of the BS we've been constantly fed for three solid years.

Some of the interesting topics to be covered:

Dirty Bomb: threat is remote and the radiation highly unlikely to actually kill anybody according to scientific tests.

Quote:
"I don't think it would kill anybody," says Dr Theodore Rockwell, an authority on radiation, in an interview for the series. "You'll have trouble finding a serious report that would claim otherwise." The American department of energy, Rockwell continues, has simulated a dirty bomb explosion, "and they calculated that the most exposed individual would get a fairly high dose [of radiation], not life-threatening." And even this minor threat is open to question. The test assumed that no one fled the explosion for one year.

Al-Qaeda: doesn't exist (as any informed observer already knows) but the film offers some convincing back-up evidence undisputed by the authorities. For instance:

Quote:
al-Qaida did not even have a name until early 2001, when the American government decided to prosecute Bin Laden in his absence and had to use anti-Mafia laws that required the existence of a named criminal organisation.

'Al-Qaeda' is merely the US name for a network of loose, unorganised and (in some cases) barely connected terrorists cells - none of whom are answerable to a single leader as there isn't one.

Which explains why they don't care about OBL.

The statistics from the UK Home Office relating to terrorist arrests since 911 bear out the proposition:

Arrests = 664
Guilty verdicts = 17 (majority Irish Republicans & Sikh militants)
Al-Qaeda linked = 0

Straussians: it's time we had this out there for the public to see - the role of these jokers in promulgating the myth of America's role as a 'fighter against evil' and hence the premise of the documentary: they invented the myth of terror to control the populace and gain political power.

This looks like a key documentary and one that is long overdue for the public to see - this is the sort of programming that needs the widest possible audience.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #2 of 17
Awesome. It's about time. This fascist "fear" factor has followed Orwell's prophecy perfectly (do you like the alliteration?), and is being used in the exact ways he predicted. Create an enemy to control the populace. Instead of being a warning, 1984 is proving more and more to have been a handbook for the power hungry.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Awesome. It's about time. This fascist "fear" factor has followed Orwell's prophecy perfectly (do you like the alliteration?), and is being used in the exact ways he predicted. Create an enemy to control the populace. Instead of being a warning, 1984 is proving more and more to have been a handbook for the power hungry.

Yep, definitely overdue. I hope that this will get shown in the US but somehow I have doubts.

Maybe things aren't that bad if something like this can get on air - I guess we should reserve judgement till we see it though.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #4 of 17
I find it funny when things that have always been known are all of a sudden a new discovery that has been covered up so we wouldn't know the "truth".


Anyone that read an article about dirty bombs years ago knew that other than the bomb blast they were unlikely to kill anyone with radiation. It was in all the papers. Try explaining that to your average commuter that wouldn't know an alpha particle from a helium atom stripped of its electrons and given a push. All they know is that the subway station they use would be "radioactive" if a dirty bomb were to go off in it. Of course depending on how well the bomb was made and what isotope was used the station would be off limits until cleaned. Then try to get people to use it.

Anyway yes it's a big conspiracy on behalf of the government to scare us into complacency. Dirty bombs, big boogie men organizations that don't exist despite killing 3000 people and leveling 220 floors.

It's just like that movie Rio. It's all made up.
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
...big boogie men organizations that don't exist despite [somebody] killing 3000 people and leveling 220 floors.

Fixed it.

Let's say I've got a dozen or so buddies from my local pub who are against the war. Powerdoc's got his own buddies from his spa who are also against the war. And Shawn has his chess club. One day, we call eachother up and agree to organize a flyer distribution to educate people against the war. One of us helps strategize, one gets financial backing, and one prepares the materials. We successfully distribute flyers at the same time through a coordinated effort.

Later I might or I might not work with Powerdoc, or I might work with Bunge instead of Shawn. Or Powerdoc might work with Bunge without Shawn's or my participation.

Are we all part of an "organization"? Does such an "organization" exist?

The problem is that once you define it as such (let's call our example "Okay-Doh"), it basically serves as a promotion for those who agree with such ideas, and more sympathisers will say "I want to join Okay-Doh". And we've got a great marketing channel for growth of support where previously there hadn't been one.
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I find it funny when things that have always been known are all of a sudden a new discovery that has been covered up so we wouldn't know the "truth".


Anyone that read an article about dirty bombs years ago knew that other than the bomb blast they were unlikely to kill anyone with radiation. It was in all the papers. Try explaining that to your average commuter that wouldn't know an alpha particle from a helium atom stripped of its electrons and given a push. All they know is that the subway station they use would be "radioactive" if a dirty bomb were to go off in it. Of course depending on how well the bomb was made and what isotope was used the station would be off limits until cleaned. Then try to get people to use it.

Anyway yes it's a big conspiracy on behalf of the government to scare us into complacency. Dirty bombs, big boogie men organizations that don't exist despite killing 3000 people and leveling 220 floors.

It's just like that movie Rio. It's all made up.

Al Qaeda were responsible for 911

But al-Qaeda don't exist

Yes they do - the proof is 911

Ergo: if 911 happened then al Qaeda must have been responsible.

It's moved on to the level of actual brainwashing now. No other explanation can cut it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Al-Qaeda: doesn't exist (as any informed observer already knows) but the film offers some convincing back-up evidence undisputed by the authorities. For instance:
"al-Qaida did not even have a name until early 2001, when the American government decided to prosecute Bin Laden in his absence and had to use anti-Mafia laws that required the existence of a named criminal organisation."

That statement is just false. The US gov't had been using that name since the mid to late 1990s, according to Richard Clarke, who would know. And of course it exists. It may be loosely structured, but that doesn't mean it didn't (or doesn't) exist. The US gov't was focusing on them since the 1990s when they were involved in several terrorist attacks. I'm not sure I would trust what you see in the documentary.
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
That statement is just false. The US gov't had been using that name since the mid to late 1990s, according to Richard Clarke, who would know. And of course it exists. It may be loosely structured, but that doesn't mean it didn't (or doesn't) exist. The US gov't was focusing on them since the 1990s when they were involved in several terrorist attacks. I'm not sure I would trust what you see in the documentary.


Maybe not. I guess we'll need to see it.

But I think what is meant by 'exist' is exist in the sense of say, the Library of Congress. As I understand it, al-Qaeda was the name of a website that was an umbrella focus point of various Islamist groups.

Translated from Arabic it means 'the base' and clearly refers to a location (such as the website or other logistic point) rather than an organisation.

I did not know the info about the US needing the name to prosecute and I don't know if it is true. I do know that the various groups under the 'al-Qaeda' rubric all have actual group names too so this supports the initial theory. Zarqawi's group for example is called al-Tawhid though he is often claimed to be 'in al-Qaeda'. Similarly Bin Laden's group is properly called 'The group for the preservation of the Holy Sites'.

I don't recall any person claimed by the US to be in al-Qaeda actually using that name in statements. Normally they would use the 'Holy Places' name above or 'The Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places'.

What I think has happened here is another kind of blowback.

The Islamist mentality or perhaps method (which the west still hasn't fully grasped) is to try to defeat the west with it's own western weapons - to exploit western weakness (and fear). Thus they will dress hostages in the same suits as the US used in Abu Ghraib, when the western propaganda started talking about the barbaric nature of beheading you got a spate of them.

Similarly, when the US started trying to scare it's own populace by promoting a false 'al-Qaeda' meme (as in the sense of a kind of James Bond 'evil' octopus-like organisation) then disparate groups laid claim to that for their own small scale actions. It was a way of turning the west's propganda against itself but it doesn't mean that such an organisation exists.

There are now hundreds of such outfits and more forming all the time (thanks George). Each has its own leader and they may or may not co-operate. There is no monolithic organisation.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #9 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius

Translated from Arabic it means 'the base' and clearly refers to a location (such as the website or other logistic point) rather than an organisation.


I've also heard it translated as 'Foundation', specifically, when Isaac Asimov's Book was published in arabic the title was "Al Qaeda'
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post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
I've also heard it translated as 'Foundation', specifically, when Isaac Asimov's Book was published in arabic the title was "Al Qaeda'

Yes, foundation as in that of a building.

I don't know Asimov's book - does it refer to a foundation as in an Organisation ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius

I don't know Asimov's book - does it refer to a foundation as in an Organisation ?

The Foundation series is a pretty popular sci-fi series, Using advanced mathematics, this dude hari seldon forsees the fall of the galactic empire and a 30,000 year long dark age before a new empire arises. In order to soften the blow, he realizes the foundation, which is established on the fringe of the galaxy, and whose purpose is to create the Encyclopedia Galactica, which will enable humanity to retain all it's knowledge so they can recreate a new galactic empire in 1000 years instead of 30,000.

good books.
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post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
The Foundation series is a pretty popular sci-fi series, Using advanced mathematics, this dude hari seldon forsees the fall of the galactic empire and a 30,000 year long dark age before a new empire arises. In order to soften the blow, he realizes the foundation, which is established on the fringe of the galaxy, and whose purpose is to create the Encyclopedia Galactica, which will enable humanity to retain all it's knowledge so they can recreate a new galactic empire in 1000 years instead of 30,000.

good books.

Sounds interesting - I've always avoided science-fiction, not sure why. Think it's probably a snobby attitude I picked up at school, I might check some out.

Re the translation: the trouble with translating Arabic in this sense is that it is a root language - words are grouped around consonants (in this case: qaf - ayn - dal = our Q, a kind of glottal stop we don't have and our D) and therefore can mean many different things (though usually connected) depending on the context and the inferred placement of vowels which are not always written.

So it is not a wrong translation - it could mean foundation, base, camp or even method.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #13 of 17
So, prey tell, who exactly flew planes into 3 buildings?

The cole bombing, the embassy bombing? I could go on and on...

So since AQ does not exist, why are so many here criticizing Bush for saying he is not too worried about OBL?

As a matter of fact how do you know anything exists? This could be a "Matrix" mock world.

I am so confused...

Now I see why people refer to the left-wingers as looney.

Ridiculous.
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
So, prey tell, who exactly flew planes into 3 buildings?

The cole bombing, the embassy bombing? I could go on and on...

So since AQ does not exist, why are so many here criticizing Bush for saying he is not too worried about OBL?

As a matter of fact how do you know anything exists? This could be a "Matrix" mock world.

I am so confused...

Now I see why people refer to the left-wingers as looney.

Ridiculous.

I'll try to explain, although I think tonton's reply to scott above probably says it best:

There exist numerous Islamist fundamentalist groupings with varying agendas. A useful list of the ones operational in Iraq and their current aims can be found here.

Some of these groups are opposed (such as Sunni and Shi'i groupings), some have contrary and conflicting agendas. Some work together sometimes for limited purposes. Each has their own 'rules' and leadership.

They are, in short, all separate entities.

In answer to your question it was (unless you are conspiracy-minded) one of these who flew the planes into the buildings, in your terms.

The problem arises when the US administration tries to claim that all these different groups are all really one monolithic entity called al-Qaeda.

This is not true in the sense that there is no one mastermind (OBL) commanding a massive cell structure which constitutes one sole organisation.

At best, OBL is just one commander of one group that is part of a large subset of Islamist groups.

Yes, they are dangerous, yes they probably want to kill you but no, they are not all in communication and working in tandem in a vast enterprise.

So when people say 'al-Qaeda doesn't exist' you should read it as saying that 'many small independent dangerous evil groups exist as opposed to one large super-evil group'.

It's not just a matter of semantics - it 's important. It may well be that the group that planned 911 ended when all its members died on their suicide mission.

That doesn't mean there aren't other equally dangerous groups - it does mean we haven't been told the truth.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #15 of 17
While the full official name of Usama bin Ladin's outfit is the World Islamic Front for Jihad against the Jews and the Crusaders
(Al-Jabha al-Islamiya al-Alamiya le-Jihad al-Yahudi w-al-Salibiyin :
الجبهة الاسلاهية العالمية لجهاد اليهود والصليبيين ),
it's often reffered to, notably by Usama himself in interviews given to the Al-Jazeera television channel, as the Organisation of the Base (al-Tanzim al Qada : تنزيه القعدة ) which in this case is indeed synonymous with foundation as in a building's (Usama's family is in the construction business, after all).

It's not a rigid hierarchical organigramme as in a state administration or a big company, more of a chamber of commerce or a loose confederation, or a network of fluid like-minded organisations which may at times use a pool of common resources (numerous innocuous businesses, from small to medium-size, from shipping, to home-building, to auto parts, etc.), and which may join for a particular job. It's a form of organised criminality albeit of a more flexible kind, geographically wide-spread, with a difference: here profit is but a mean, the goal being political as well as religious.

Modern states and their security apparati have difficulties grasping such concepts, and so tend to treat the loose umbrella outfit as if it was the same kind of operation they are.
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

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« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


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post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I'll try to explain, although I think tonton's reply to scott above probably says it best:

There exist numerous Islamist fundamentalist groupings with varying agendas. A useful list of the ones operational in Iraq and their current aims can be found here.

Some of these groups are opposed (such as Sunni and Shi'i groupings), some have contrary and conflicting agendas. Some work together sometimes for limited purposes. Each has their own 'rules' and leadership.

They are, in short, all separate entities.

In answer to your question it was (unless you are conspiracy-minded) one of these who flew the planes into the buildings, in your terms.

The problem arises when the US administration tries to claim that all these different groups are all really one monolithic entity called al-Qaeda.

This is not true in the sense that there is no one mastermind (OBL) commanding a massive cell structure which constitutes one sole organisation.

At best, OBL is just one commander of one group that is part of a large subset of Islamist groups.

Yes, they are dangerous, yes they probably want to kill you but no, they are not all in communication and working in tandem in a vast enterprise.

So when people say 'al-Qaeda doesn't exist' you should read it as saying that 'many small independent dangerous evil groups exist as opposed to one large super-evil group'.

It's not just a matter of semantics - it 's important. It may well be that the group that planned 911 ended when all its members died on their suicide mission.

That doesn't mean there aren't other equally dangerous groups - it does mean we haven't been told the truth.

Well I would agree with most of that except the point that they DON'T all work in concert.

I would suggest that they use the small cell structure to their advantage so that people like yourself will point to their differing views in other areas to discredit any linkages. I will put forth that their is an overabundance of evidence suggesting they do work together.

It really is quite ingenious, if you think about it.

I don't remember being fooled into thinking that AQ is equal to all terrorists. I do know that many of todays terrorist groups trace back to a handful of origins. It's not like these organizations hate each other.

The fact is that many of today's terrorist entities have a working relationship. You can thank the Sudanese government and Hassan al Turabi and SH's "Popular Islamic Conferences" for that.
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I will put forth that their is an overabundance of evidence suggesting they do work together.

I don't remember being fooled into thinking that AQ is equal to all terrorists. I do know that many of todays terrorist groups trace back to a handful of origins. It's not like these organizations hate each other.

Well, some work together - some claim to be 'al-Qaeda' to play into western fears or to make themselves seem bigger than they are.

Some actually do hate each other as it happens too. That doesn't stop them both hating the US of course but it does suggest they might not trust each other.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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