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Fear Fear Fear Fear Fear

post #1 of 225
Thread Starter 
Bush and his party need be shown the door in this next election. These people are using fear in every move they make. Fear to control the public.

Public we need to fight this.

Fear Movie in Quicktime

Your thoughts on this?

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #2 of 225
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #3 of 225
brilliant!
post #4 of 225
and kerry doesn't--hmmm the draft, scaring seniors about social security, says we didn't buy enough equipment , then he doens't say that he voted against the appropriations bill--kerry running desparate
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #5 of 225
I wouldn't try to play the parties against each other on this. Each knows that if it was their card to play, they wouldn't resist playing it.

I think Kerry's stance that if the US were just "nice enough" the world would have solved the Iraq, or terror situtation "equitably" is disingenuous at best. Ignoring the fact that there was a lot of money changing hands in sactioned Iraq, or that the EU isn't using this situation to hold America's feet to fire belies a lack or realism on Kerry's part.

What distrubs me is that Kerry wants to posit this in the same way he promises "fixing healthcare" by through more money at the same system, or that SS is doesn't need immediate attention. The only point to those sorts of statements is that he wants to be in power, using any means to cast disperisons on his opponent.

I think this election has all the qualities of a Pepsi vs. Coke ad push.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #6 of 225
The sad thing is, fear works.

Karl Rove and Co. have, for instance, quite effectively created a demographic group they like to call "security moms".

Ask a "security mom" why she's for Bush, and she'll say "because of terrorism". She may not even be able to articulate the implied reasoning "because Bush will handle terrorism better and make me safer". The best she'll likely come up with is to repeat an unfounded anti-Kerry slur like the deliberately misinterpreted "global test" or "Kerry would wait until we got attacked to do anything!".

Then again, Bush himself wouldn't be able to articulate why he'd be better at handling terrorism either. He can't do much better than his deluded supporters, relying on repeated stump-speech lines which represent the maximum depth of his own understanding.

I'd seen the video you linked to before. In other speech Bush gave yesterday in NJ, Bush managed to repeat "September the 11th" thirteen times during one short speech (with an incongruous September 4th thrown in, just to reassure us that this is Bush we're dealing with here).
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #7 of 225
to be fair, both parties have been guilty of this in the past. the dems did the same thing for years regarding social security. "those nasty republican are going to take away your social security, don't vote for them." and it's not like the "communist threat" was ever over blown by either side over the years as well.
post #8 of 225
How did people get so afraid ?

I would have said 'Americans' but I thought it might be misconstrued - hell, I'll go with it.

How is it that people can be so scared for Bush (or Kerry) to play on ?

Something's wrong at a deeper level in our societies (and I mean the UK too) for this fear to be there.

It's not just a response and imo our 'leaders' are just a symptom of a deeper malaise. They are the most scared of any of us.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #9 of 225
Bush is using fear? HAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA. Stop, you're killing me.

Bush comes out and says "no draft, period". Kerry, the very next day, starts talking about a second Bush term carries with it the likelihood of a draft.

Edwards says that Bush's "January Surprise" will cut SS benefits by 45%.

The Democrats have an AUTHENTIC memo out instructing their minions to accuse Republicans of voter intimidation "even if none exists" and to strike "premptively".

Bush is now the fear monger? Fellowship, with all due respect you are full of shit.


Shetline:

Nice condescension in your post. You know, OF COURSE a "security mom" isn't smart enough to make her own choice. Gee, it couldn't be that she rightly believes Bush will be more aggressive with terrorism, keeping the war off our shores. It couldn't be that, could it?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #10 of 225
Good point SDW2001!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #11 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Bush is using fear? HAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA. Stop, you're killing me.

Bush comes out and says "no draft, period". Kerry, the very next day, starts talking about a second Bush term carries with it the likelihood of a draft.

All politicians use fear tactics, typically 'fear' of what the other candidates policies might do. If you truly think that the other guys policies are going to have scary consequences, that's a fair argument to make, especially if you can back it up substantively.

Kerry has good reasons to believe that Bush's go-it-alone (and no, I'm not forgetting Poland!) policies will force conditions for a draft, regardless of what Bush says, because we're so over-extended now. Can Kerry get more help from our allies? Who knows? But he's got a better chance than Bush, that's for sure.

Bush, on the other hand, can make no sound, or even reasonably plausible argument, for willfully distorting Kerry's words to pretend that Kerry would "give France a veto on defending America" or that he'd "wait until after America was attacked" to defend America. (Like Bush waited, after ignoring Richard Clarke and the "Bin Laden determined to Strike America" PDB, for example.)

Taking an actual tragic event and using droning repetition, and droning false associations (like always trying to mention 9/11 and Saddam within a few breaths of each other, over and over again, while slyly avoiding exact wording that connects the two) is quite a different thing, and a very exploitative and shamelessly opportunistic form of fearmongering.
Quote:
Nice condescension in your post. You know, OF COURSE a "security mom" isn't smart enough to make her own choice. Gee, it couldn't be that she rightly believes Bush will be more aggressive with terrorism, keeping the war off our shores. It couldn't be that, could it?

I am being condescending. I won't pretend I'm not. A lot of security moms and NASCAR dads, and even a lot of the brie-eating Volvo drivers who'll be voting for Kerry with me... I think a lot of them are complete idiots.

I think the majority of voters, liberal and conservative, vote based on very shallow reactions to emotional hot-button issues. Depth of consideration of the issues is a rare thing. The Republicans, however, with Karl Rove and the like running the show, have simply become far better, and far more shameless, at crass manipulation of these weaknesses in judgement.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #12 of 225
We just had a few typical American voters on BBC tv from both parties, I wonder WTF is right with Americans? Not one of them could speak, still going on about the issues we we discussing 4 months ago. Don't the average 'mericans even read the news, watch the tv, do some research? WTF is wrong with the average person in your nation??????

Should be a good night tomorrow, we have the 'fear program' on tv,
post #13 of 225
Let's just be honest and realize that fear is a tactic both sides use often and quite well. As do the poeple who support either party.

Does anyone think the Political Outsider forum is right-wing? Me neither.

Does anyone care to count the overwhelming number of gloom and doom threads have been posted over the last 6 months? Me neither.

Fear is a motivator. Everyone is trying to motivate people to vote a certain way. I don't like it, but it's a strategy that is used equally by every single major and independent politcal party in the United States.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #14 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
We just had a few typical American voters on BBC tv from both parties, I wonder WTF is right with Americans? Not one of them could speak, still going on about the issues we we discussing 4 months ago. Don't the average 'mericans even read the news, watch the tv, do some research? WTF is wrong with the average person in your nation??????

Should be a good night tomorrow, we have the 'fear program' on tv,

No. Americans are all idiots, and everyone else on the planet is better than the best US citizen.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #15 of 225
..and I'd like to add that becoming a global superpower was an accident.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #16 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Bush comes out and says "no draft, period". Kerry, the very next day, starts talking about a second Bush term carries with it the likelihood of a draft.

Kerry says, "I won't raise taxes for anyone except those making more than $200,000/year." Two minutes later Bush starts saying Kerry's gonna raise taxes on EVERYONE cus he's a tax & spend liberal.

Hmm... goes both ways.
post #17 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Bush comes out and says "no draft, period". Kerry, the very next day, starts talking about a second Bush term carries with it the likelihood of a draft.

Young people fear a draft because, unlike their President, they read. Just from one day's news in one paper alone:
Pre-war plans assumed US troops in Iraq would drop to 30,000 within 6 months
Preparations for a draft of medical professionals
Army plans to shorten combat tours in Iraq
Krugman summarizes draft fears

But it's all fear-mongering by the Liberal Media, right?
post #18 of 225
Cheney uses fear of nucler weapons to scare the population http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nati...rtner=homepage

Now lets address something here though: Bush himself said we'll be attacked sometime in the future, so how does Cheney gey away with saying stuff like this? Oh, nevermind. Lazy press-corps and handpicked audiences wearing rose colored glasses.

This last little nugget is disgusting IMO

Quote:
``I thought, frankly, the other day what John Edwards suggested when he made his comments about Christopher Reeve, that somehow if John Kerry were president, Christopher Reeve could get up out of his wheelchair and there all of his problems would be solved, I really thought was an inappropriate remark, especially given ... well, given the false hope it engendered,'' Cheney said.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #19 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
All politicians use fear tactics, typically 'fear' of what the other candidates policies might do. If you truly think that the other guys policies are going to have scary consequences, that's a fair argument to make, especially if you can back it up substantively.

Kerry has good reasons to believe that Bush's go-it-alone (and no, I'm not forgetting Poland!) policies will force conditions for a draft, regardless of what Bush says, because we're so over-extended now. Can Kerry get more help from our allies? Who knows? But he's got a better chance than Bush, that's for sure.

Bush, on the other hand, can make no sound, or even reasonably plausible argument, for willfully distorting Kerry's words to pretend that Kerry would "give France a veto on defending America" or that he'd "wait until after America was attacked" to defend America. (Like Bush waited, after ignoring Richard Clarke and the "Bin Laden determined to Strike America" PDB, for example.)

Taking an actual tragic event and using droning repetition, and droning false associations (like always trying to mention 9/11 and Saddam within a few breaths of each other, over and over again, while slyly avoiding exact wording that connects the two) is quite a different thing, and a very exploitative and shamelessly opportunistic form of fearmongering.

I am being condescending. I won't pretend I'm not. A lot of security moms and NASCAR dads, and even a lot of the brie-eating Volvo drivers who'll be voting for Kerry with me... I think a lot of them are complete idiots.

I think the majority of voters, liberal and conservative, vote based on very shallow reactions to emotional hot-button issues. Depth of consideration of the issues is a rare thing. The Republicans, however, with Karl Rove and the like running the show, have simply become far better, and far more shameless, at crass manipulation of these weaknesses in judgement.


There it is. The implication that the American people are stupid and that they are vulnerable to the evil genius Karl Rove.

As for Bush distorting, well...what exactly is Kerry's position on war then? He voted against the 1991 Gulf War when we had ALL of the things that he is asking for now, including money. Hell, we nearly made a profit on that war. We had 34 nations involved. We had a UN resolution authorizing force. He voted against giving Bush 41 the authority to go to war. Now, he votes FOR a war in which we had less support internationally and monetarily. How can that be justified? It cannot be. It simply can't. Kerry compounded the craziness by voting against the supplmental package (days after saying a US Senator wouldn't do so because it would be reckless, reagrdless of whether or not he got the version of the bill he wanted). Distortion? Hardly. Kerry not only is too much of an internationalist PUSSY to be the Commander in Chief, he doesn't even know he's one. That's the sad part. He's not even being true to his pacifist anti-war liberal roots.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #20 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
Kerry says, "I won't raise taxes for anyone except those making more than $200,000/year." Two minutes later Bush starts saying Kerry's gonna raise taxes on EVERYONE cus he's a tax & spend liberal.

Hmm... goes both ways.

Well, maybe because the vast likelihood is he WILL. This is exactly what Clinton ran on....middle class tax cuts. But funny, I seem to recall one of the buggest increases in history. Kerry is a true liberal. Liberals raise taxes...that's just the way it goes. Liberals run as fiscal conservatives, then turn around and raise taxes. Clinton did it. Rendell just did it in PA, after campaining on NOT raising the state income tax. In fact, the only way true liberals get elected in this country is to LIE and run as the aformentioned fiscal conservatives.

Even if Kerry's promise holds true, which it won't because 1) He's most likely lying just as Clinton did and 2) The Republican Congress (which will be maintained in all likelihood) will never allow it, then his plan WILL affect small subchapter S corps, just as Bush says it will. I know because my Dad owns a small business as a subchapter S. Kerry's plan would do real damage to people in small business. Further, Kerry's plan doesn't bring in enough revenue to pay for what's he's proposing. Those are just the facts.

Sometimes fear is based on reality....and history.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #21 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Cheney uses fear of nucler weapons to scare the population http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nati...rtner=homepage

Now lets address something here though: Bush himself said we'll be attacked sometime in the future, so how does Cheney gey away with saying stuff like this? Oh, nevermind. Lazy press-corps and handpicked audiences wearing rose colored glasses.

This last little nugget is disgusting IMO

Or, maybe...Cheney is talking about the most real and largest threat of our time. Maybe he's actually taking it as seriosuly as it should be taken.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #22 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Or, maybe...Cheney is talking about the most real and largest threat of our time. Maybe he's actually taking it as seriosuly as it should be taken.

What, by saying that only the Bush admin can stop this sort of attack? Get real.

PS. I've worked with nuclear materials more than most and I can safely say the a dirty bomb is not the biggest threat. A real Nuc is a big threat but making one is not like throwing together a pipe bomb...
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #23 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Bush is using fear? HAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA. Stop, you're killing me.

Bush comes out and says "no draft, period". Kerry, the very next day, starts talking about a second Bush term carries with it the likelihood of a draft.

Edwards says that Bush's "January Surprise" will cut SS benefits by 45%.

The Democrats have an AUTHENTIC memo out instructing their minions to accuse Republicans of voter intimidation "even if none exists" and to strike "premptively".

Bush is now the fear monger? Fellowship, with all due respect you are full of shit.


Shetline:

Nice condescension in your post. You know, OF COURSE a "security mom" isn't smart enough to make her own choice. Gee, it couldn't be that she rightly believes Bush will be more aggressive with terrorism, keeping the war off our shores. It couldn't be that, could it?


Sure you're not talking about yourself. Bush is using / has used fear all along. It's really obvious! Everytime he wants a distraction there's another terror alert. I was just talking to a coworker about this very thing today and how it's gotten WAY OUT OF HAND. You can't defend this one so don't even try. People are afraid to go anywhere. It's really stupid!!!!!!!


Oh! And not soon enough ........


OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #24 of 225
This play-to-people's-fears thing has definitely gotten out of hand. The current Drudge headline (yes, I read Drudge. But I read lots of other stuff too.) is "Cheney: Terrorists May Bomb U.S. Cities". Now come on.

What is taking so long for the term FUD to make it into politics?
post #25 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Sure you're not talking about yourself. Bush is using / has used fear all along. It's really obvious! Everytime he wants a distraction there's another terror alert. I was just talking to a coworker about this very thing today and how it's gotten WAY OUT OF HAND. You can't defend this one so don't even try. People are afraid to go anywhere. It's really stupid!!!!!!!


Oh! And not soon enough ........


OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!

Great post jimmac! Bush is using fear! Don't even try to argue! Everytime he wants a distraction he issues an alert! I can't prove that, but I'll say it anyway! With an exclamation point! AND I'LL USE CAPS BECAUSE BUSH IS WAY OUT OF HAND. People are afraid! They won't be with Kerry!
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #26 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by Noleli2
This play-to-people's-fears thing has definitely gotten out of hand. The current Drudge headline (yes, I read Drudge. But I read lots of other stuff too.) is "Cheney: Terrorists May Bomb U.S. Cities". Now come on.

What is taking so long for the term FUD to make it into politics?

Terrorists aren't plotting to bomb US cities then? I suppose you COULD think that. But I don't.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #27 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
What, by saying that only the Bush admin can stop this sort of attack? Get real.

PS. I've worked with nuclear materials more than most and I can safely say the a dirty bomb is not the biggest threat. A real Nuc is a big threat but making one is not like throwing together a pipe bomb...

I think that yes, the Bush administration will do a better job than a Kerry administration would. Absolutely.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #28 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Great post jimmac! Bush is using fear! Don't even try to argue! Everytime he wants a distraction he issues an alert! I can't prove that, but I'll say it anyway! With an exclamation point! AND I'LL USE CAPS BECAUSE BUSH IS WAY OUT OF HAND. People are afraid! They won't be with Kerry!

Are you blind? Cheney 's telling this country that without Bush/Cheney this country will be attacked by a nuclear weapon.

Kerry is using the draft--a real possability BTW--while BC is using fear of dying!!! Wake up.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #29 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
There it is. The implication that the American people are stupid and that they are vulnerable to the evil genius Karl Rove.

Implication? It's a flat-out admission. Of course the American people are vulnerable.

Do you think Americans are inherently superior to the German people of WW2 or the Chinese of the Cultural Revolution when it comes to resistance to propaganda?

News flash! All people everywhere are vulnerable to propaganda. What's scary is that one of the most important safeguards of a free society, a vigilant and objective press, with a sense of duty that places public service over ratings and circ numbers -- is something that's becoming more and more rare in the US.
Quote:
Kerry not only is too much of an internationalist PUSSY to be the Commander in Chief, he doesn't even know he's one.

The kind of person who sneers "PUSSY" like that is not the kind of person who can be reached by argument or reason.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #30 of 225
There are terrorists planning attacks on America!!?? Like, right this minute!!??


OMG!!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #31 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Bush comes out and says "no draft, period".

Shouldn't that have been "Read my lips. No draft, period!"?

W doesn't have to work toward reelection anymore. Lord knows what he'll do. He already broke every single one of his Y2K campaign promises. Who's to know that he won't do it again, and have some convenient excuse related to the WOT to do it? I know, as an intelligent person, according to W's track record, that there's a risk there. So does John F. Kerry.
post #32 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Well, maybe because the vast likelihood is he WILL. This is exactly what Clinton ran on....middle class tax cuts. But funny, I seem to recall one of the buggest increases in history. Kerry is a true liberal. Liberals raise taxes...that's just the way it goes. Liberals run as fiscal conservatives, then turn around and raise taxes. Clinton did it. Rendell just did it in PA, after campaining on NOT raising the state income tax. In fact, the only way true liberals get elected in this country is to LIE and run as the aformentioned fiscal conservatives.

Even if Kerry's promise holds true, which it won't because 1) He's most likely lying just as Clinton did and 2) The Republican Congress (which will be maintained in all likelihood) will never allow it, then his plan WILL affect small subchapter S corps, just as Bush says it will. I know because my Dad owns a small business as a subchapter S. Kerry's plan would do real damage to people in small business. Further, Kerry's plan doesn't bring in enough revenue to pay for what's he's proposing. Those are just the facts.

Sometimes fear is based on reality....and history.

I see you're drinking the Koolaid too.

From this very nonpartisan Slate link that criticizes both sides for tax policy:

Quote:
Republicans charge that Clinton promised a middle-class tax cut and delivered a tax increase instead. That is not quite right. A promise to increase taxes on the affluent was, in fact, a central feature of Clinton's 1992 campaign. And almost two-thirds (63 percent) of the projected revenues in Clinton's tax increase hit high-income couples (over $140,000 a year) and individuals (over $115,000). Most of this came from an increase in the top income-tax rate. Another 15 percent of Clinton's revenue came from tax increases on business, primarily a rise in the corporate income-tax rate and new limits on the deduction for entertainment expenses. These also were campaign promises made and kept, not broken.
post #33 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Shouldn't that have been "Read my lips. No draft, period!"?

W doesn't have to work toward reelection anymore. Lord knows what he'll do. He already broke every single one of his Y2K campaign promises. Who's to know that he won't do it again, and have some convenient excuse related to the WOT to do it? I know, as an intelligent person, according to W's track record, that there's a risk there. So does John F. Kerry.

When the time comes, there will be a draft. Another attack on America,

"we'll I said we didn't need a draft, but we have been attacked, and we must respond, it is unpatriotic not to have a draft in these dangerous times, and it is hard work."
post #34 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
There are terrorists planning attacks on America!!?? Like, right this minute!!??

OMG!!

I know! I know! Let's wage a war on someone who's NOT planning any attacks on the US and doesn't even have the capability to do so in any way, so that we can show that we're doing something about it, even though it'll cost us billions, and will actually have the reverse effect of INCREASING the threat of terrorism. Let's do that! That's the ticket!
post #35 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
When the time comes, there will be a draft. Another attack on America,

"we'll I said we didn't need a draft, but we have been attacked, and we must respond, it is unpatriotic not to have a draft in these dangerous times, and it is hard work."

Yes, that was my point. I forgot these common men need things to be spelled out to them more clearly than usual.
post #36 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Well, maybe because the vast likelihood is he WILL. This is exactly what Clinton ran on....middle class tax cuts. But funny, I seem to recall one of the buggest increases in history. Kerry is a true liberal. Liberals raise taxes...that's just the way it goes. Liberals run as fiscal conservatives, then turn around and raise taxes. Clinton did it. Rendell just did it in PA, after campaining on NOT raising the state income tax. In fact, the only way true liberals get elected in this country is to LIE and run as the aformentioned fiscal conservatives.

Even if Kerry's promise holds true, which it won't because 1) He's most likely lying just as Clinton did and 2) The Republican Congress (which will be maintained in all likelihood) will never allow it, then his plan WILL affect small subchapter S corps, just as Bush says it will. I know because my Dad owns a small business as a subchapter S. Kerry's plan would do real damage to people in small business. Further, Kerry's plan doesn't bring in enough revenue to pay for what's he's proposing. Those are just the facts.

Sometimes fear is based on reality....and history.

Well, maybe the vast likelihood is Bush WOULD create a draft. This is exactly what he's running on... no draft. But funny, I seem to recall a war in the past where we had a draft... that's just the way it goes. Conservatives run as compassionate conservatives, then turn around an go back on their word. Bush did it. After campaigning against nation building... and now he's nation building. In fact, the only way conservative liars get elected in this country is to LIE and run as the aforementioned compassionate conservatives.

Even if Bush's promise holds true, which it won't because 1) He's most likely lying just like he already did and 2) the military generals and troops will never allow it, then he will instate a draft, just as Kerry says he will. I know because my dad knows some military general. Bush's plan requires more troops. Further, Bush's plan doesn't bring in enough people to fight the war he's in the middle of. Those are just the facts.

Sometimes fear is based on reality....and history.
post #37 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
...internationalist pussy ...

Can GWB sustain the American life style without international support aka cheap Walmart goods from China, computer chips from Taiwan and oil from the middle east? Does GWB still think he can force the world to do his bidding?

Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
... pacifist anti-war liberal roots.

Does that imply GWB is a war monger with an ego larger than the current US deficit?

________________________________________

Having a balanced view on international politics doesn't mean someone is a coward. GWB's cowboy style politics will bring the US to ruin in the long run...
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #38 of 225
Ra - talking about fear and with regard to your sig - there is another training exercise imminent, this one by FEMA in accordance with its CERT (Community Training and Response Team) program.

The program starts nationwide on 25th October and is entitled 'CERT and terrorism'.

It will conclude with a Disaster Simulation and Examination on - you guessed it - election day

Linkypoo.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #39 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by talksense101
Can GWB sustain the American life style without international support aka cheap Walmart goods from China, computer chips from Taiwan and oil from the middle east? Does GWB still think he can force the world to do his bidding?



Does that imply GWB is a war monger with an ego larger than the current US deficit?

It must, by definition, prove Bush is a hypocrite/liar or SDW doesn't know what he's talking about. Because:

a) SDW clearly implies that a pacifist is a bad thing and categorically states Bush is at the opposite end of the spectrum.

b) Bush claims to be a Christian which is to actually be a pacifist by definition.

The right-wing mindset at work.

Can you afford to allow this mode of thought in positions of power ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #40 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
It must, by definition, prove Bush is a hypocrite/liar or SDW doesn't know what he's talking about. Because:

a) SDW clearly implies that a pacifist is a bad thing and categorically states Bush is at the opposite end of the spectrum.

b) Bush claims to be a Christian which is to actually be a pacifist by definition.

The right-wing mindset at work.

Can you afford to allow this mode of thought in positions of power ?

[Binary Robot Scott's head explodes.]
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