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Oh look, CBS again

post #1 of 148
Thread Starter 
Notice how the whole "tons of explosives" story is bullshit.

http://www.drudgereport.com/nbcw6.htm
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post #2 of 148
Which part exactly? That is was reported to the IAEA two weeks ago?
Quote:
In a letter to the IAEA dated October 10, Iraq's director of planning, Mohammed Abbas, said the material disappeared sometime after Saddam's regime fell in April 2003, which he attributed to "the theft and looting of the governmental installations due to lack of security."

That Bush knew less than 10 days ago?
Quote:
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Monday that five days after the IAEA received the letter from the Iraqi government, the agency alerted U.S. officials in Vienna, who in turn told national security adviser Condoleezza Rice. She then alerted Bush, McClellan said.

That the military recognized to have hundreds of tons of weapon stocks unaccounted for, including the explosives that could, entre autre, be used for triggering a nuclear device?
Quote:
"In the grand scheme -- and on a grand scale -- there are hundreds of tons of weapons, munitions, artillery, explosives that are unaccounted for in Iraq," the official said.

That the site was secured by the IAEA until the war begon, and the US failed to prevent the material from getting into the wrong hands?

What part of the story is bullshit, exactly?
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post #3 of 148
Hewre's whan an embedded NBC reporter said this morning:
Quote:
Amy Robach: And it's still unclear exactly when those explosives disappeared. Here to help shed some light on that question is Lai Ling. She was part of an NBC news crew that traveled to that facility with the 101st Airborne Division back in April of 2003. Lai Ling, can you set the stage for us? What was the situation like when you went into the area?

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. Um, as a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. Almost, we stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

AR: Was there a search at all underway or was, did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

AR: And there was no talk of securing the area after you left. There was no discussion of that?

LLJ: Not for the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. They were -- once they were in Baghdad, it was all about Baghdad, you know, and then they ended up moving north to Mosul. Once we left the area, that was the last that the brigade had anything to do with the area.

AR: Well, Lai Ling Jew, thank you so much for shedding some light into that situation. We appreciate it.
post #4 of 148
And what did the Iraqi interim gov't have to say about it?

Quote:
Earlier this month, in a letter to the I.A.E.A. in Vienna, a senior official from Iraq's Ministry of Science and Technology wrote that the stockpile disappeared after early April 2003 because of "the theft and looting of the governmental installations due to lack of security."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/in...=all&position=
post #5 of 148
Aww, the conservative counter-attack looks to have fizzled out.

Face it, it was a massive fuckup.
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post #6 of 148
Oh look, Republican media again...

Free airtime for candidates in California. *Republican* candidates, that is.

Full story here.

Quote:
Attempting to boost Republican Party prospects, the owner of a chain of Central Valley television and radio stations has donated $325,000 in air time for GOP candidates in many of the state's hottest legislative elections.

The contribution by Harry J. Pappas comes in the final days of campaigning, and those involved in the campaigns could not recall another instance in which a California media mogul donated time on public airwaves for advertisements to benefit one party over another.

Critics say the contribution is a clear attempt to sway close elections, is likely to raise new questions of media bias, and violates federal law requiring broadcasting companies to provide equal time to political candidates.

"They're the public's airwaves," said attorney Karen Getman, who represents the Assembly Democratic Caucus and formerly served as chairwoman of the state's Fair Political Practices Commission. "You're not free to give them to one side in a partisan debate."
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post #7 of 148
AND

April 10th wasn't the first time US troops had been there. A week earlier other US troops did "spot visits to some of the 1,100 buildings" and found lots of explosives at the site.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/ne...eadiness01.htm
post #8 of 148
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
AND

April 10th wasn't the first time US troops had been there. A week earlier other US troops did "spot visits to some of the 1,100 buildings" and found lots of explosives at the site.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/ne...eadiness01.htm

I think you've all missed the point. The point is the LIBERAL media was going to hold this until the most inconvenient time for Bush. It was a delibrate effort to influence the election, even if it was a big fuck up for the administration. CBS is apparently on a quest to destroy any credibility it had left.
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post #9 of 148
A 60 minutes report on the sunday following when the story broke?!?!?! Oh, the horror! How unusual!

You want to know where the story came from and why it's a big deal?

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/arc..._24.php#003777
post #10 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
I think you've all missed the point. The point is the LIBERAL media was going to hold this until the most inconvenient time for Bush. It was a delibrate effort to influence the election, even if it was a big fuck up for the administration. CBS is apparently on a quest to destroy any credibility it had left.

So the media should not report things damaging to the president?

I'm not following your train of logic here.
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post #11 of 148
Thread Starter 
No, they HELD the story. The NYT beat them to it. They were going to hold a story that they had for awhile, then release it at a damaging time. Can you guys please read?
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post #12 of 148
This is regurgitated news, on top of everything else going on here.

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post #13 of 148
They did not hold the story. RTFA!
Quote:
But finally, on Oct. 10, the Iraqis formally notified the IAEA, and on Oct. 15, the IAEA formally notified the Bush Administration. In press guidance prepared for release in the event news got out, but not released until today [OCT 24], when requested by The Nelson Report, State Department spokesmen confirmed the Iraqi government and IAEA report dates, and that 350 tons of dual use high explosives could not be accounted for.

Drudge, as usual, is completely FOS. The nelson report broke the story two days ago.
post #14 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
A 60 minutes report on the sunday following when the story broke?!?!?! Oh, the horror! How unusual!

You want to know where the story came from and why it's a big deal?

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/arc..._24.php#003777

Interesting stuff. I think this quote really puts into perspective the scale of the fuck-up here:

Quote:
moving this material would have taken a fleet of about forty big trucks each moving about ten tons of explosives. And this was at a time -- the week before and then during the war -- when Iraq's skies were positively crawling with American aerial and satellite reconnaissance.

Considering that al Qaqaa was a major munitions installation where the US also suspected there might be WMD, it's difficult to believe that we wouldn't have noticed a convoy of forty huge trucks carting stuff away.

Almost makes you think the 'looters hypothesis' may not be a viable explanation.....
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post #15 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
No, they HELD the story. The NYT beat them to it. They were going to hold a story that they had for awhile, then release it at a damaging time. Can you guys please read?

Isn´t the government free to issue a press release on stuff like this? If they wanted to avoid the story so close to the election they could have made a press briefing month ago.
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post #16 of 148
Wow, if Drudge says it, it must be true!

Here, from your heroes at Fox:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83252,00.html

In its haste to support the Bush admin. Fox, in an AP article dated Friday, April 04, 2003, said that what was found at Al Qaqaa were signs of "Iraq's chemical preparedness". Oops.
Quote:
Col. John Peabody, engineer brigade commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, said troops found thousands of 2-by-5-inch boxes, each containing three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.
Initial reports suggest the powder is an explosive, but tests are still being done, a senior U.S. official said. If confirmed, it would be consistent with what the Iraqis say is the plant's purpose, producing explosives and propellants.

Want more? From the Chicago Tribune via Lexis-Nexis: from the Chicago Tribune, Sept. 30, 2004:
Quote:
The insurgents probably are using weapons and ammunition looted from the nearby Qa-Qaa complex, a 3-mile by 3-mile weapons-storage site about 25 miles southwest of Baghdad, said Maj. Brian Neil, operations officer for the 2nd Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, which initially patrolled the area.

The site was bombed during last year's invasion and then left unguarded, Neil said.

"There's definitely no shortage of weapons around here," he said.

Enter David Kay.
Quote:
David Kay, the CIA's former chief weapons hunter in Iraq, believes that the material was looted in the immediate aftermath of the war.

He said he saw the facility in May 2003, "and it was heavily looted at that time. Sometime between April and May, most of the stuff was carried off. The site was in total disarray, just like a lot of the Iraqi sites."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-explosives26oct26,1,5204158.story?coll=la-home-headlines


There is more info. if one only bothers to take 5 minutes to look for it.
So when did the Bush admin. find out about it? McClellan says recently, others say it had been known for a while. Time to huddle and get the lie....er....everyone on the same page guys.
post #17 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
I think you've all missed the point. The point is the LIBERAL media was going to hold this until the most inconvenient time for Bush. It was a delibrate effort to influence the election, even if it was a big fuck up for the administration. CBS is apparently on a quest to destroy any credibility it had left.

Bullshit. Your initial post says "Notice how the whole "tons of explosives" story is bullshit". Your title says 'Oh look. CBS again".

When you and your source were proven wrong, your point went from the story is bullshit to look at the timing. lol Brilliant!
post #18 of 148
Goal Posts, meet new position. New Position, meet goal posts.
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post #19 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
I think you've all missed the point. The point is the LIBERAL media was going to hold this until the most inconvenient time for Bush.

New funniest post ever. All this this time I thought the NYTimes was the liberal media!
post #20 of 148
Quote:
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 11:16 AM EDT (1516 GMT)

(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new twist, after a television news crew embedded with the U.S. military during the invasion of Iraq reported that the material could not be found when American troops arrived.

NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.

While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives, they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that reportedly went missing, according to NBC.

....what's going on with story? Are we talking HMX, RDX or just regular explosives?


Would it be too much to ask the the guys from the 101st who were there?

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post #21 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Would it be too much to ask the the guys from the 101st who were there?

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Here's whan an embedded NBC reporter said this morning:
Quote:
Amy Robach: And it's still unclear exactly when those explosives disappeared. Here to help shed some light on that question is Lai Ling. She was part of an NBC news crew that traveled to that facility with the 101st Airborne Division back in April of 2003. Lai Ling, can you set the stage for us? What was the situation like when you went into the area?

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. Um, as a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. Almost, we stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

AR: Was there a search at all underway or was, did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

AR: And there was no talk of securing the area after you left. There was no discussion of that?

LLJ: Not for the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. They were -- once they were in Baghdad, it was all about Baghdad, you know, and then they ended up moving north to Mosul. Once we left the area, that was the last that the brigade had anything to do with the area.

AR: Well, Lai Ling Jew, thank you so much for shedding some light into that situation. We appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
AND

April 10th wasn't the first time US troops had been there. A week earlier other US troops did "spot visits to some of the 1,100 buildings" and found lots of explosives at the site.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/ne...eadiness01.htm

So no one really searched it at that time.
post #22 of 148
hmmmm from The Corner


Quote:
LOOSE CANNON [Cliff May]
Josh Marshall is making the claim that NBCs debunking of the Times story (that explosives were looted from Al Qaqaa after the U.S. seized it) is now officially no longer operative.

His basis for that is a subsequent NBC story saying that it's not clear that those troops from the 101st were actually anywhere near the bunkers that reportedly contained the HMX and RDX.

Not clear, eh? Not clear to whom?

Even the NYT story on Monday quotes I.A.E.A. experts saying that they assume that just before the invasion the Iraqis followed their standard practice of moving crucial explosives out of buildings, so they would not be tempting targets.

Wanna bet they moved them more than a stones throw away?

And count me dubious that the 101st Airborne didnt know what to do when it reached a major weapons site.

And count me astonished that if the 101st didnt know what they were doing that should be an issue from which one candidate would dare attempt to take partisan advantage.
Posted at 05:25 PM


--this all stinks to high heaven, and it's old news -- even if it is true .

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post #23 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
--this all stinks to high heaven, and it's old news -- even if it is true .

Of course you knew about it right? And of course it's no big deal if those explosives end up or have already been used against both US and Iraqi military.

That thing you quoted has 3rd grade arguments. We're not talking about two trucks worth of explosives. We're talking about massive amounts that would've required a massive operation to move AND store elsewhere. And, ever heard of them things called satellites?

I know you're desperate and will die defending Bush...but maybe you should read some of the posts/links above and....get real? A little?
post #24 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Quote:
And count me dubious that the 101st Airborne didnt know what to do when it reached a major weapons site.


You guys make it too easy!

The 101st sure as hell didn't know what they were doing when they 'found' 'plutonium' at al tuwaitha, which, in reality, was the most famous IAEA sealed stock of uranium in Iraq.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83821,00.html

So sorry, but Cliff May's position has already been invalidated.
post #25 of 148
I'd let this shake out a little more before going in for the kill. Uranium? Plutonium? Whatever it was, was it secured?

edit: Mr. May's comment is valid, esp. with the IAEA's concerns that the iraqis would move the 'dope'.

It is odd that the 101st hasn't wieghed in. It's also odd that 340 ton(ne?)s of explosives were "looted". You don't loot 340 tonnes, you start your own trucking company. Odd that the "looters" would be so thorough, too.


Wait and see.

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post #26 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Uranium? Plutonium? Whatever it was, was it secured?

Check out the date "apr 11, 03." It's oooold news. Like I said, what they found was the big, famous IAEA-sealed uranium stock and they broke the seals and thought it was plutonium (which would be impossible).
post #27 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Check out the date "apr 11, 03." It's oooold news. Like I said, what they found was the big, famous IAEA-sealed uranium stock and they broke the seals and thought it was plutonium (which would be impossible).


No, I meant did they leave it ungarded after discovering it, or was there some sort of procedure followed?

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and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #28 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
No, I meant did they leave it ungarded after discovering it, or was there some sort of procedure followed?

Doesn´t have to be mutual exclusive.
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post #29 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
No, I meant did they leave it ungarded after discovering it, or was there some sort of procedure followed?

There were sort of proceedures, but the biggest problems were disorganization and the bush admin's hatred of the IAEA (oh, and lack of troops):

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0504-11.htm

And really the bigger point is that the 101st clearly isn't the entity to be getting an expert opinion from, contrary to what NRO folks may believe.
post #30 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
No, I meant did they leave it ungarded after discovering it, or was there some sort of procedure followed?

Now you're starting to get to the bottom of the problem!!!

I will say that it doesn't matter . . . the way that the GOP has been working through their cohort/echo chamber, all that they need to do is voice a counter story, no matter how quickly it is shown to be absolutley full of crap,
Long enough for those who want to believe . . . have wanted to believe every single time such a moment has taken place . . . believe that it is all merely some liberal myth making and that all that is needed is more Conservative myth making to counter it.

Thus it continues the absolute travesty, the false operating principles of todays discourse, -mostly on the right as far as I can tell- which states that there is no right and wrong, no falsities, merely equal and opposite sides that can argue their position endlessly until vote time

and even then, RE:the right and votes, it all appears to be about forcing an issue, not discovering the true from the false

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post #31 of 148
This is outrageous. The leftist media makes things up and Kerry runs around the country repeating it. Can't you see how dishonest this whole bunch is? There is an element in this world that hates our President will will stop at nothing to derail him. Next week the people will speak and the left can crawl back into its hole. The President will win this election and perhaps by a landslide.
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post #32 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
This is outrageous. The leftist media makes things up...

So its a lie CM?
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post #33 of 148
A couple of things.

On the FUD thing pfflam, you could be right, but it's pretty telling how suceptible CBS is as fars as casting dispersions on their intentions. CBS was clearly working agianst Bush in it's time of re-releaseing an old story -- republican FUD or no FUD -- it won't take too many more instances of this to harm CBS's ability to "report" the news.

wikipedia says that RDX weighs 1.82 g/cm³ so 340 tonnes would beeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (somebody check my math)

340000 kg X 1000 kg/g = 340,000,000g

340,000,000g div 1.82 g/cm³ = ~ 187,000,000cm³

187,000,000cm³ div 1,000,000cm³/m

187 m³ of RDX

187 (cubic meters) = 244.586766 cubic yards (from google)

16 yd³ per tandem axle dump truck

....so say roughly 15 dump truck loads (with out any packing)

that's a whole lotta lootin' -- I do have visions of 15 tonka-yellow dump trucks heaped with RDX, each with a full rooftop complement of AK-47 wielding mujahadeen, boucning around the desert. Sounds like something out a Cheech and Chong movie.

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and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #34 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
CBS was clearly working agianst Bush in it's time of re-releaseing an old story

IT'S NOT AN OLD STORY. Drudge is WRONG. I already gave you guys the facts twice just on this page:
Quote:
But finally, on Oct. 10, the Iraqis formally notified the IAEA, and on Oct. 15, the IAEA formally notified the Bush Administration. In press guidance prepared for release in the event news got out, but not released until today [OCT_24], when requested by The Nelson Report, State Department spokesmen confirmed the Iraqi government and IAEA report dates, and that 350 tons of dual use high explosives could not be accounted for.

According to all of the actual information you and I have now, CBS has done and is doing absolutely nothing unusual.

In fact, CBS should run the story, but as they said after rathergate, they aren't going to criticize bush.
post #35 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
I think you've all missed the point. The point is the LIBERAL media was going to hold this until the most inconvenient time for Bush. It was a delibrate effort to influence the election, even if it was a big fuck up for the administration. CBS is apparently on a quest to destroy any credibility it had left.


Oh geez! Earth to SDW, earth to SDW?


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post #36 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
IT'S NOT AN OLD STORY. Drudge is WRONG. I already gave you guys the facts twice just on this page:

According to all of the actual information you and I have now, CBS has done and is doing absolutely nothing unusual.

In fact, CBS should run the story, but as they said after rathergate, they aren't going to criticize bush.


Acutally this had been one of Kerry's talking points for while. Perhaps the RDX component is new, but that is all.

CBS releasing the story on the very eve of the election can't be a conicidence.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #37 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
IT'S NOT AN OLD STORY. Drudge is WRONG. I already gave you guys the facts twice just on this page:

According to all of the actual information you and I have now, CBS has done and is doing absolutely nothing unusual.

In fact, CBS should run the story, but as they said after rathergate, they aren't going to criticize bush.

I want to echo Giant's point...

IT'S NOT AN OLD STORY!

Jeebus you people are dense!
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #38 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
I want to echo Giant's point...

IT'S NOT AN OLD STORY!

Jeebus you people are dense!

It's baffling, isn't it?
post #39 of 148
from kerryspot.com

is seeing a lot of these .mil emails:

Quote:
I was serving as a [identifying information removed by the Kerry Spot] staff member during the time in question. The Commander on the site had complete real time intelligence on what to expect and possibly find at the Al-QaQaa depot. The ordinance in question was not found when teams were sent in to inspect and secure the area. When this information was relayed, Operational plans were adjusted and the unit moved forward. Had the ordinance in question been discovered, a security team would have been left in place.



now, doubtless they are all lies -- but just in case they aren't, it sounds a little more like reality -- rather than a 'bunch of clueless army pukes' playing with themselves, then running off to Baghdad.

Remember that bit about the 'pure-and-simple truth' that Bush (personally, mind you) let those weapons "get looted"?


wait and see

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #40 of 148
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
It's baffling, isn't it?

You can't possibly mean that this not a new story for the IAEA.


so....do you mean that this from Drudge is not true?:

Quote:
Elizabeth Jensen at the LOS ANGELES TIMES details on Tuesday how CBS NEWS and 60 MINUTES lost the story [which repackaged previously reported information on a large cache of explosives missing in Iraq, first published and broadcast in 2003].

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
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