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Doing my part for the country (Pics)

post #1 of 87
10/27/04 at 7:19am
Thread Starter 
I have my John Kerry bumper sticker and yard sign which both reflect how THIS voter will vote in this election.





I am also happy to report that two of my neighbors across the street also sport John Kerry yard signs and I see no Bush signs at all.

PS: If you are wondering if those are GIANT spiders on my windows you guessed correctly. Halloween decor

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #2 of 87
10/27/04 at 7:27am
Takes a brave man in Texas to put a Kerry sign in his yard. Good job!
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #3 of 87
10/27/04 at 8:10am
Fellowship, you have earned yourself a solid golf clap from your man in Austin.

Excellent work, my fine American friend, excellent work.

proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #4 of 87
10/27/04 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
I have my John Kerry bumper sticker and yard sign which both reflect how THIS voter will vote in this election.

Well aren't you proud of yourself? Does that make you feel good?
MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

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MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

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post #5 of 87
10/27/04 at 8:26am
  • rok
  • the Casbah
nice house.

in the meantime, people have taken to knocking down or removing kerry/edwards signs around the new orleans area. but for every one that's knocked down, five more spring up.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #6 of 87
10/27/04 at 9:01am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
Excuse my ignorance, but the fish?
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #7 of 87
10/27/04 at 9:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Excuse my ignorance, but the fish?

A symbol that Christians use.
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #8 of 87
10/27/04 at 9:10am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
You are such an amazing person fellowship
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #9 of 87
10/27/04 at 9:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
You are such an amazing person fellowship

Not really but thanks for saying such.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #10 of 87
10/27/04 at 10:11am
Fellowship:

Why are you voting for him?
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
To save time, assume I know everything.
Reply
post #11 of 87
10/27/04 at 11:08am
.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #12 of 87
10/27/04 at 11:30am
I''ve been doing my part for the President. I am working with a group that is calling people in Florida to encourage them to vote for the President. I'm not actually doing any calling, but I am helping out where I can.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #13 of 87
10/27/04 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I''ve been doing my part for the President.

Fellowship's post was about doing his part for the country not for any individual.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #14 of 87
10/27/04 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I''ve been doing my part for the President. I am working with a group that is calling people in Florida to encourage them to vote for the President. I'm not actually doing any calling, but I am helping out where I can.

You mean, your part for Rummy, Cheney, and Powell? There is no President.
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post #15 of 87
10/27/04 at 11:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Fellowship:

Why are you voting for him?

I do not like one party to have controlling power of the government. I believe the country is better off with a split government where by for example we have a Republican President with a majority Democratic congress or flip that and have a Democratic President with a majority Republican congress.

Some call this a do-nothing type of government but I believe history shows that the country does best with a split party government.

I also believe that President Bush and his administration have failed the American people in regard to 9/11 by not paying enough attention to the security briefings. I believe 9/11 could have been prevented if the Bush admin. took security briefings more serious and took less vacations during his early days as President.

I believe the war in Iraq is wrong and I believe it is all about securing America's stake in the middle east mostly for energy concerns and after that security "concerns" regarding the middle east to secure this oil supply for the US. I believe when President Bush takes us to war and uses words like terrorists and evil-doers he needs to be frank with the American people as to exactly what we Americans are doing over there. Why did we invade Iraq? I do not believe for one second it is due to any sort of WOT. The Dick Cheney Energy Task Force mapped out Iraq in April of 2001 prior to 9/11 and James Baker
Quote:
But critics expressed grave concern about whether Baker was an appropriate choice for such a crucial job. For instance, one of Iraq's largest creditors is the government of Saudi Arabia. The Carlyle Group does extensive business with the Saudi royal family, as does Baker's law firm, Baker Botts (which is currently defending them in a $1 trillion lawsuit filed by the families of Sept. 11 victims). The New York Times determined that the potential conflicts of interest were so great that on Dec. 12 it published an editorial calling on Baker to resign his posts at the Carlyle Group and Baker Botts to preserve the integrity of the envoy position.

gave Cheney his "Baker Report" which called for "military action" in Iraq. Bush/Cheney abused the patriotism in America directly after 9/11 to divert a so-called WOT to a war in Iraq. This was abuse by the President and I will not endorse such actions by voting for this President.

Link 01

Link 02

Link 03

Link 04

Last but not least:

Link 05

I will not support this.

Bush in my view is a criminal of grand scale and I will not give him my vote.

John Kerry may or may not be many things but he has not taken us to where we are and the country needs to get on track to a sustainable future not a future of secret deals for the Bin Laden, Baker and Bush families at the expense of tax payer $$$ and human life to secure their personal investments.

While I disagree with Kerry over partial birth abortion Bush has no leg to stand on as far as morality is concerned. Bush panders to the "religious right" and I believe "pretends" to be this caring man of God. Nobody can say what Bush is but I find Bush to be anything but a Christian.

What scares me in this country is that many conservative Christians think Bush is this wonderful man of God. I mean after all he says he is.... and he is against partial birth abortions. He wants to ammend the constitution against gay marriage instead of letting the states manage the issue. But I ask these conservative Christians is this really worth it? To support a president who panders simply for your vote (pretending to be this upstanding man of God) which in my view he is nothing of the sort. Is this pandering to the religious right enough to justify the invasion into Iraq?

I think many more Christians need to be critical of this president.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #16 of 87
10/27/04 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
I do not like one party to have controlling power of the government. I believe the country is better off with a split government where by for example we have a Republican President with a majority Democratic congress or flip that and have a Democratic President with a majority Republican congress.

Some call this a do-nothing type of government but I believe history shows that the country does best with a split party government.

I also believe that President Bush and his administration have failed the American people in regard to 9/11 by not paying enough attention to the security briefings. I believe 9/11 could have been prevented if the Bush admin. took security briefings more serious and took less vacations during his early days as President.

I believe the war in Iraq is wrong and I believe it is all about securing America's stake in the middle east mostly for energy concerns and after that security "concerns" regarding the middle east to secure this oil supply for the US. I believe when President Bush takes us to war and uses words like terrorists and evil-doers he needs to be frank with the American people as to exactly what we Americans are doing over there. We did we invade Iraq? I do not believe for one second it is due to any sort of WOT. The Dick Cheney Energy Task Force mapped out Iraq in April of 2001 prior to 9/11 and James Baker gave Cheney his "Baker Report" which called for "military action" in Iraq. Bush/Cheney abused the patriotism in America directly after 9/11 to divert a so-called WOT to a war in Iraq. This was abuse by the President and I will not endorse such actions by voting for this President.

Link 01

Link 02

Link 03

Link 04

Last but not least:

Link 05

I will not support this.

Bush in my view is a criminal of grand scale and I will not give him my vote.

John Kerry may or may not be many things but he has not taken us to where we are and the country needs to get on track to a sustainable future not a future of secret deals for the Bin Laden, Baker and Bush families at the expense of tax payer $$$ and human life to secure their personal investments.

Fellowship

Brilliantly articulated Fellowship.

You are an independent thinker who makes his own choices and decisions. An example to us all regardless of politics or belief.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #17 of 87
10/27/04 at 11:55am
Hear hear!

One of the few religious nuts whose postings I really enjoy reading.
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...

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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...

Reply
post #18 of 87
10/27/04 at 12:20pm
Now Fellowship, kudos and all, but why lie about the giant spiders?

I think we all know that Texas is famous for its "big ass spiders", and there is certainly no shame in the fact that your lovely house is overrun.

Call a big ass exterminator and make your peace with God.

Halloween. Jeesh.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #19 of 87
10/27/04 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Now Fellowship, kudos and all, but why lie about the giant spiders?

I think we all know that Texas is famous for its "big ass spiders", and there is certainly no shame in the fact that your lovely house is overrun.

Call a big ass exterminator and make your peace with God.

Halloween. Jeesh.

Believe it or not I do take my trash out on trash day

This Nov.2 I will do my best to send the trash out of Washington D.C.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #20 of 87
10/27/04 at 1:34pm
.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #21 of 87
10/27/04 at 1:40pm
Good for you Fellowship. How long have you had the signs out? Do you bring it in at night? Seems that Kerry/Democratic signs are collectable items and seem to disappear a lot these days.

Did you hear about the republican "moran" who knocked himself out while stealing Kerry signs? Here's the link. Moran
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post #22 of 87
10/27/04 at 1:44pm
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
I have to say that any 911 conspiracy theory has to be come up with some solid proff.

Clarke has made the most comprehensive description on what happened around 911 in the administration and how the war against terror had/has been conducted before and after 911. Its a very damning testimony against Bush and his administration. But their actions on the day and the measures taken right after he has nothing but praise for (up untill they all started talking about Iraq).

I tend to place most trust in Clarkes version of all I have heard. And in his version there is no room for any conspiracy regarding 911. It might have come handy for the Iraq fixated members of his cabinet but thats another issue altogether.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #23 of 87
10/27/04 at 2:22pm
Good work, Fellows.

What's everyone else doing? I have three bumper stickers on my car: 1) for John Kerry 2) for Kerry Edwards and 3) for U.S. Senate candidate Joe Hoeffel (who badly needs name recognition the most). I also made PB&J sandwiches for the Univision crew that set up the interview with John Kerry after his campaign stop here in Wilkes-Barre last week. Strawberry Jelly. Cut diagonally. Mmm.
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post #24 of 87
10/27/04 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
What's everyone else doing?

I'm going to try to suppress the white vote.
Reply
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post #25 of 87
10/27/04 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Good work, Fellows.
What's everyone else doing?

Good job man. I'm doing the lawn sign and bumper stickers, but I've also given about $4000 to ACT, Move On, and various Dem candidates via the Kos dozen.

After voting for Bush in 2000, even though I live in SoCal and my vote wasn't that important, I will do as much as I can to make up for that pathetic momentary lapse of reason from 2000.

I still have $1000 (of the $5000 I had set aside to contribute this year) left for any worthy last minute need. If you know of any, please PM me and I'll see what I can do.
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 87
10/27/04 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
I do not like one party to have controlling power of the government. I believe the country is better off with a split government where by for example we have a Republican President with a majority Democratic congress or flip that and have a Democratic President with a majority Republican congress.

Some call this a do-nothing type of government but I believe history shows that the country does best with a split party government.

I also believe that President Bush and his administration have failed the American people in regard to 9/11 by not paying enough attention to the security briefings. I believe 9/11 could have been prevented if the Bush admin. took security briefings more serious and took less vacations during his early days as President.

I believe the war in Iraq is wrong and I believe it is all about securing America's stake in the middle east mostly for energy concerns and after that security "concerns" regarding the middle east to secure this oil supply for the US. I believe when President Bush takes us to war and uses words like terrorists and evil-doers he needs to be frank with the American people as to exactly what we Americans are doing over there. Why did we invade Iraq? I do not believe for one second it is due to any sort of WOT. The Dick Cheney Energy Task Force mapped out Iraq in April of 2001 prior to 9/11 and James Baker gave Cheney his "Baker Report" which called for "military action" in Iraq. Bush/Cheney abused the patriotism in America directly after 9/11 to divert a so-called WOT to a war in Iraq. This was abuse by the President and I will not endorse such actions by voting for this President.

Link 01

Link 02

Link 03

Link 04

Last but not least:

Link 05

I will not support this.

Bush in my view is a criminal of grand scale and I will not give him my vote.

John Kerry may or may not be many things but he has not taken us to where we are and the country needs to get on track to a sustainable future not a future of secret deals for the Bin Laden, Baker and Bush families at the expense of tax payer $$$ and human life to secure their personal investments.

While I disagree with Kerry over partial birth abortion Bush has no leg to stand on as far as morality is concerned. Bush panders to the "religious right" and I believe "pretends" to be this caring man of God. Nobody can say what Bush is but I find Bush to be anything but a Christian.

What scares me in this country is that many conservative Christians think Bush is this wonderful man of God. I mean after all he says he is.... and he is against partial birth abortions. He wants to ammend the constitution against gay marriage instead of letting the states manage the issue. But I ask these conservative Christians is this really worth it? To support a president who panders simply for your vote (pretending to be this upstanding man of God) which in my view he is nothing of the sort. Is this pandering to the religious right enough to justify the invasion into Iraq?

I think many more Christians need to be critical of this president.

Fellowship


Very impressive post, Fellow. It was amazing to see your "development" during the last few months here at PO. You're a person who thinks before making a decision, and you documented your decision-making very well here. I just hope there's a lot more Americans like you, who think before voting, and not just vote for their "team".

Very impressive. I wish you all the best, a lot of replacements for the Kerry signs if necessary, and hopefully no wars with your neighbors because of your sign...

Very cool house, by the way. Would like one as well...
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post #27 of 87
10/27/04 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I checked on a couple of those links Fellowship, the first two are believe that a conspiracy is behind that events of 911. One site claims that Dick Cheney was involved in wargames on 9-11-2001 that were exactly the same as the real-world events that occurred. These sites claim that NORAD was prevented from 'truly responding' because of Cheney.

I have been reading the 911 Commission report, and find no mention of these wargames, or any wargames relating to that day's events. I did find that it took 25 minutes from time American Flight 11 turned off it's transponder to the moment F-15s left the ground. That doesn't sound unreasonable.

Is there something you could point me to in the 911 commission report that would support your belief that the events of 911 are conspiritorial in nature, or do you believe that that report is not relevant, or even falsified?

Perhaps you should get to grips with a little bit of reality that may invade your comfort zone. The Executive Director of the 9-11 Commission, the "inquiry" which was delayed and balked at for 411 days by the Bush Administration was Philip Zelikow, a raving neocon who ran the "inquiry" with an iron first, his directive being to prevent the numerous facts aboutt 9-11 that point to (at least) incompetence by the administration from being raised at the inquiry.

The 9-11 "Commission" is nothing short of a national disgrace; the quantity of material that was omitted or prevented from being examined is staggering. Even the testimony of firefighters who reached the 75th floor of the WTC towers was prevented from being presented. Perhaps you should talk to one of the bereaved 9-11 family members who realize they have been ignored, short-changed, and lied to by the Bush Administration. Yes, there were five drills and simulations of 'airplanes flying into buildings situations' going on that day, and if you honestly believe that the neocon controlled "Commission" would allow that information to be presented, you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.

Jesus H ?¢£ing Christ!!

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #28 of 87
10/27/04 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
I have to say that any 911 conspiracy theory has to be come up with some solid proff.

Clarke has made the most comprehensive description on what happened around 911 in the administration and how the war against terror had/has been conducted before and after 911. Its a very damning testimony against Bush and his administration. But their actions on the day and the measures taken right after he has nothing but praise for (up untill they all started talking about Iraq).

I tend to place most trust in Clarkes version of all I have heard. And in his version there is no room for any conspiracy regarding 911. It might have come handy for the Iraq fixated members of his cabinet but thats another issue altogether.


The American people were just fine with the Bush Administration insisting that Saddam Hussein prove to the world that he possessed no weapons of mass destruction.

In the same vein, the Bush Administration should be held to account, and prove to the American people that they were not complicit in the execution of the worst-ever attack on our soil. There has been so much information published in our mainstream media to suggest that there was at the very least, some degree of complicity by the administration, that the onus of proof should be not just with the those who allege government conspiracy, but with the government to prove to the American public that they are not guilty.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #29 of 87
10/27/04 at 4:43pm
.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #30 of 87
10/27/04 at 5:40pm
Thread Starter 
Just to inform I thought I would share that my mom, and sister are not going to vote for Bush. My mother voted for Bush before but will not now. My sister is mostly a republican but will not vote for Bush.

My ladyfriend who comes from a family of republicans will vote for Kerry. She as I will both mark a protest vote. Where not one republican is getting our vote.

My grandparents on my mother's side who were republican are also not voting for Bush in this election.



Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #31 of 87
10/27/04 at 6:40pm
Dale, ever think about voting libertarian?
did you check out that link that I PMed you a few days ago? (votepair.org)

good luck this week, but I'm sure your (and my) experiences will be tame compared to what will go down in the swing states... (the weeks after the election, if it is close, may prove to be a different environment however...)

I hope whoever wins gets it in a landslide...
125/51041 (top .2449%)-Amie Street - awesome independent DRM-free music
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
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125/51041 (top .2449%)-Amie Street - awesome independent DRM-free music
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
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post #32 of 87
10/28/04 at 4:32am
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Don't do it Fellowship!!

There's still time to repent and drink out of toiletbowl #2 instead of toiletbowl #1!!


In all seroiusness, between the military and business concerns, niether will do much differently in terms of terror or foriegn policy. I do believe though, that on things like partial-birth abortion, and using modern economics to address economic issues, Bush is years ahead of Kerry.

But like the man said, Let each man be convinced in his own mind.

Those idiots who support a total ban on partial birth abortion without exception:

1) Don't know what it really is.
2) Don't know when and how often it's actually performed.
3) Don't know the real reasons it's performed when it unfortunately is.

No one wants partial birth abortion to be necessary. Unfortunately, for the health of the mother, and the viability of the fetus, it is sometimes, though rarely, the most humane choice.

Only the people who do not have all of the facts can be against emergency-only PBA. Or the religiously fanatic.

Get educated.
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post #33 of 87
10/28/04 at 6:30am
.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #34 of 87
10/28/04 at 6:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Misinformation has been continually aired on partial birth abortion
------snip---------------

Since this has veered wildly off-topic perhaps you can help me with an observation here.

Surely the rational behind the anti-abortion ethos (other than it being a manufactured issue to procure the right-wing Xian vote) is the sanctity of human life.

So how come the people who shout loudest in this regard do not extend this sanctity to adult human beings in many instances ? Iraq for example - plenty of dead children and civilians there, some even Christians. No problem though.

Clinic workers - these can be assaulted and in some cases killed. Sanctity of human life ? Not in that case.

I guess the sanctity of life argument is a non-starter. So what is the rationale then ?

The method of the terminations ? The context ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #35 of 87
10/28/04 at 6:49am
.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #36 of 87
10/28/04 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I think that has more to do with the "just war" theory.

As for the children, and carnage, it would be the onus of the UN and Saddam himself to answer for the conditions that were brought about by sanctions and the attemps to politicise them.

Also, if free and fair elections are offensive to the players in the region behind the 'insurgents' they need to bear that responsibility as well.

I was thinking more of condoning actions such as the US bombing of civilian areas such as Fallujah and Iskandariyya as well as the physical attacks and threats against clinic workers.

What is this 'just war' - don't recall that from my red-letter Bible. Is it in the Sermon on the Mount ?

Sounds a bit like what fundies (mis) understand by the word Jihad.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #37 of 87
10/28/04 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz

2.President Clinton argued that it is necessary to prevent "serious adverse health
consequences" to the mother.
Not true. The mainstream medical community agrees: There is NO medical necessity for
such a procedure. Even the leading authority on late-term abortion in the United States says
that the procedure is never necessary to preserve a woman's health.2
Furthermore, "health", as defined by law in the abortion context includes all factors -
physical, emotional, psychological, familial and social.3 This is a loophole large enough to
justify any abortion. So, adding any health exception would effectivly negate the ban.
Addition to the modifiers "serious" and "adverse" will not change the way the law defines
health.

I'm not sure how this got onto abortion here, but I want to point out that part of the reason Clinton and Kerry and others wanted the health exception is that they argued it would be unconstitutional if t wasn't included in the law. And guess what, they were right. The "partial birth abortion" law was struck down, exactly because it didn't have the health exception.
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post #38 of 87
10/28/04 at 6:58am
My wife works in the OR. They just had to give a late term abortion to a lady who has cancer. The cancer has metastasized which means the woman will be dead in 3 months, even with the chemo & radiation treatments. In order to perform these treatments they had to remove the child. If the woman was a bit farther along, the legality of performing the abortion would've been in question and the Dr. performing the operation would be taking a huge legal risk in performing the operation.

I'm sure no one wants to hear these stories (heck, my wife's pregnant, I don't want to hear stories about "when pregnancy's go bad") but it's situations like this that, rare as they are, are most likely to be affected by pushing anti-abortion legislation through congress.
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post #39 of 87
10/28/04 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I think that has more to do with the "just war" theory.

As for the children, and carnage, it would be the onus of the UN and Saddam himself to answer for the conditions that were brought about by sanctions and the attemps to politicise them.

Also, if free and fair elections are offensive to the players in the region behind the 'insurgents' they need to bear that responsibility as well.

So let me get this straight.

The people that actually fire the munitions don't actually bear any of the responsibility for the people they kill?
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post #40 of 87
10/28/04 at 7:06am
dmz, after what you said, why do you think 25.000 women and doctors choose for a procedure that is so brutal, while better options are available for the woman's future healt and firtility?

And what do you think of the Republican's refusal to construct the law in such a way that it could not be used to invade existing legislation - sacrificing those 25.000 lives for political gain in stead of real results?
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
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It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
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