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Jobs Are Still Bad

post #1 of 58
10/31/04 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 
I say this from recent experience with some open positions we have and some people I know trying to find work. The most obvious evidence is the quantity and quality of people apply for positions at my organization (Library). We recently had an entry level position open (~$25K/year), and we got ~70 resumes. 5-10 years ago we would have gotten 3. But, as has been the case for a few years now, every time a position opens we get resumes left and right, including multiple coworkers giving us multiple resumes from their family and friends.

Not only that, but a large percentage of applicants are way over qualified. I was shocked by the number of people applying for this entry level job with graduate degrees or coming from much higher level positions.

I knew this was a problem for the past couple years, but I had assumed it improved. I discussed it with our HR folks and they said there hasn't been a noticeable change in the past year and that it's not limited to the Library or the University.
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post #2 of 58
10/31/04 at 12:49pm
Yeah but we have tons of fast food jobs available. What are you complaining about?!
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post #3 of 58
10/31/04 at 1:18pm
I think it's terrible that the libraries get huge tax breaks while they outsource american jobs. Someone needs to stop them!
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post #4 of 58
11/1/04 at 4:27am
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
I say this from recent experience with some open positions we have and some people I know trying to find work. The most obvious evidence is the quantity and quality of people apply for positions at my organization (Library). We recently had an entry level position open (~$25K/year), and we got ~70 resumes. 5-10 years ago we would have gotten 3. But, as has been the case for a few years now, every time a position opens we get resumes left and right, including multiple coworkers giving us multiple resumes from their family and friends.

Not only that, but a large percentage of applicants are way over qualified. I was shocked by the number of people applying for this entry level job with graduate degrees or coming from much higher level positions.

I knew this was a problem for the past couple years, but I had assumed it improved. I discussed it with our HR folks and they said there hasn't been a noticeable change in the past year and that it's not limited to the Library or the University.

A quick question? How many of these resumes actually follow up with a call or some other sort of personal contact?

I ask this because I have seen several friends in the last couple years be able to use jobs sites to basically spam their resumes all over the place. Sites like Monster basically allow you to search using any sort of criteria you want and then send your resume off to anything that is even close.

You might be witnessing a technological change more than a job change.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #5 of 58
11/1/04 at 5:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
A quick question? How many of these resumes actually follow up with a call or some other sort of personal contact?

I ask this because I have seen several friends in the last couple years be able to use jobs sites to basically spam their resumes all over the place. Sites like Monster basically allow you to search using any sort of criteria you want and then send your resume off to anything that is even close.

You might be witnessing a technological change more than a job change.

Nick


I live in Oregon where the unemployment is among the worst in the nation. Uh no.


Jobs are still bad. The unemployment part of the bad economy has had plenty of time to right itself. No excuses please.
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post #6 of 58
11/1/04 at 5:17am
La la la la la la la la la Bush bad, lost jobs la la la la la la la la not listening.
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post #7 of 58
11/1/04 at 5:19am
Nonsense. He was at the U2 Press conference and seemed to be recovering well.
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post #8 of 58
11/1/04 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
I live in Oregon where the unemployment is among the worst in the nation. Uh no.


Jobs are still bad. The unemployment part of the bad economy has had plenty of time to right itself. No excuses please.

Pretend for a second that local law and policy can have an effect as well.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #9 of 58
11/1/04 at 5:45am
Meanwhile, everyone can still claim the 'economy' is doing well.

Funny, how the 'economy' doesn't have much to do with the economic prosperity of the average american. Instead, the 'economy' is now merely an indicator of how well the wealthy are doing.
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post #10 of 58
11/1/04 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally posted by dfiler
Meanwhile, everyone can still claim the 'economy' is doing well.

Funny, how the 'economy' doesn't have much to do with the economic prosperity of the average american. Instead, the 'economy' is now merely an indicator of how well the wealthy are doing.

Yes when they talk about things like record home ownership among everyone in the United States, I can see how that only applies to the "rich."


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #11 of 58
11/1/04 at 6:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
A quick question? How many of these resumes actually follow up with a call or some other sort of personal contact?

A whole lot. Just for that one entry level position, for instance, we had multiple people coming in person beforehand to let us know they existed and even one of the people we interviewed flew in from penn (and he's the 2nd choice).

Note, too, that resumes don't even make it out of our HR offices easily (that's a long story for another day), so you can't just send a standardized cover letter and expect it to even get to us.

But monster.com (which was a big deal even in the late 90s when there were far less applicants) doesn't explain why so many people are dramatically overqualified. I've also talked to heads of other departments in the university about how we have had to develop complex cutting criteria just to sift through the resumes.
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post #12 of 58
11/1/04 at 6:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Yes when they talk about things like record home ownership among everyone in the United States, I can see how that only applies to the "rich."

That's been a nice little factoid, but we all know that hiding within it is a potentially bad situation.
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post #13 of 58
11/1/04 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Yes when they talk about things like record home ownership among everyone in the United States, I can see how that only applies to the "rich."


Nick

Meanwhile, these homeowners are further in dept than ever before. These homeowners also are working more hours per week than ever before. Both parents are increasingly likely to be working multiple part time jobs that don't provide health bennefits.

Homeownership has risen, but mostly due to artificially low interest rates. Thus, the rise isn't an indication of our 'economy' doing well but rather the feds keeping rates low because the economy is doing badly.

Check out this link:
http://www.danter.com/statistics/homeown.htm

You'll see that ownership is up by just a few percentage points.

Meanwhile...
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post #14 of 58
11/1/04 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
That's been a nice little factoid, but we all know that hiding within it is a potentially bad situation.

I don't consider it bad at all.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #15 of 58
11/1/04 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by dfiler
Meanwhile, these homeowners are further in dept than ever before. These homeowners also are working more hours per week than ever before. Both parents are increasingly likely to be working multiple part time jobs that don't provide health bennefits.

Homeownership has risen, but mostly due to artificially low interest rates. Thus, the rise isn't an indication of our 'economy' doing well but rather the feds keeping rates low because the economy is doing badly.

Check out this link:
http://www.danter.com/statistics/homeown.htm

You'll see that ownership is up by just a few percentage points.

Meanwhile...

Yes, try moving the unemployment rate up by "just a few percentage points" and see if no one cares. How about change the rate of growth for the economy "just a few percentage points" in either direction and look at the results.



A few percentage points is a very big deal when you are talking about almost three hundred million people. I suppose you must be a Bush supporter. I mean that tax cut for the "rich" dropped the top rate "just a few percentage points."


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 58
11/1/04 at 7:42am
Every silver lining has a dark clowd.
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post #17 of 58
11/1/04 at 7:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I don't consider it bad at all.

And that's why you are careless and make mistakes.
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post #18 of 58
11/1/04 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Yes, try moving the unemployment rate up by "just a few percentage points" and see if no one cares. How about change the rate of growth for the economy "just a few percentage points" in either direction and look at the results.



A few percentage points is a very big deal when you are talking about almost three hundred million people. I suppose you must be a Bush supporter. I mean that tax cut for the "rich" dropped the top rate "just a few percentage points."


Nick

I don't know what you're arguing against with this Nick.

Nobody here is claiming that homeownership is meaningless.
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post #19 of 58
11/1/04 at 8:17am
Quote:
Nonsense. He was at the U2 Press conference and seemed to be recovering well.

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post #20 of 58
11/1/04 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
And that's why you are careless and make mistakes.

Care to point out my mistakes? Go ahead, put them on display for all to see. You must know about them since you claim to be informed not only about all my investments, but also the good versus bad ones.

Why don't you quote my networth for me while you are at it...


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #21 of 58
11/1/04 at 9:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Care to point out my mistakes?

We see you make mistakes in just about every post.

But WRT to this, looking at just about any economic situation and saying you 'don't consider it bad at all' is just asking for trouble. dfiler pointed out some of the issues that make the current situation risky. There are others, like the fact that housing prices are really inflated. There's absolutely nothing certain about the housing situation, and we are all taking risks.

One thing your responses in another thread made clear, however, was that you didn't anticipate the tremendous growth of at least one major industry that benefitted from the war. It's apparent that one of the reasons was likely a problem that afflicts many people who apparently hold opinions shaped by political ideologies: the inability to recognize real motives of economic movers because doing so would undermine parts of the ideologically-based belief system.

And this is what we are seeing here. Rather than dealing with the situation in a realistic manner, you've offered a series of excuses, much in the way many bush supporters did with qaqaa. The problem here, however, is that there is no justification for stripping all of the externalities off of something like a homeownership statistic when it's an issue the people you are talking to have to deal with in their own lives in the real world.
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post #22 of 58
11/1/04 at 9:37am
giant is correct. We are a hairs breath away from a complete collapse. Soon there will be riots in the streets and no one but Bush is to blame. That's the only legitimate explanation. You'd have be a blind Bush zealot to think things are not on the edge of total disaster.
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post #23 of 58
11/1/04 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
giant is correct. We are a hairs breath away from a complete collapse. Soon there will be riots in the streets and no one but Bush is to blame. That's the only legitimate explanation. You'd have be a blind Bush zealot to think things are not on the edge of total disaster.

A bit off topic but I'll bite. (The following comments aren't economically focused.)

There are already are riots in the streets... just not american streets.

Nearly the entire world thinks we're already experiencing total disaster. A superpower has invaded and occupied another country against the urgings of the rest of the globe. Rightfully, they place the blame for the current state of affairs on the current administration.
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post #24 of 58
11/1/04 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
giant is correct. We are a hairs breath away from a complete collapse.

Well, that's not what I'm saying at all, but none of us expect any honesty out of you anyway.
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post #25 of 58
11/1/04 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
giant is correct. We are a hairs breath away from a complete collapse. Soon there will be riots in the streets and no one but Bush is to blame. That's the only legitimate explanation. You'd have be a blind Bush zealot to think things are not on the edge of total disaster.

He thinks he's being sarcastic. But actually he's pretty much summed it up. Well, maybe not riots, but increased poverty, increased homelessness, higher crime rates and lower standards of living. And it is Bush's fault. And Reagan.
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post #26 of 58
11/1/04 at 10:01am
Quote:
Soon there will be riots in the streets and no one but Bush is to blame.

Only if he wins: Will the left riot when Bush Wins??.
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post #27 of 58
11/1/04 at 10:04am
Has anyone here seen MASKED & ANONYMOUS? I highly recommend it.
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post #28 of 58
11/1/04 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Yes when they talk about things like record home ownership among everyone in the United States, I can see how that only applies to the "rich."


Nick

In California it does.
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post #29 of 58
11/1/04 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
We see you make mistakes in just about every post.

So that would be a "no" on being able to outline my mistakes. Nice to see you can still turn it into a personal insult though since you have no backing.

Quote:
But WRT to this, looking at just about any economic situation and saying you 'don't consider it bad at all' is just asking for trouble. dfiler pointed out some of the issues that make the current situation risky. There are others, like the fact that housing prices are really inflated. There's absolutely nothing certain about the housing situation, and we are all taking risks.

So that would be a "no" on being able to point out my mistakes, but now I'm just "asking for trouble."

We are not "all" taking risks. There are some of us who are not heavily leveraged. Some of us have excellent cashflow and will scoop up this discounted property from people who bid them too high while stupidly speculating. Plus you do realize that when people are less likely to buy a house, they become more likely to rent. That makes my rents go higher which again, improves my cashflow.

In fact for me, the party is just getting ready to begin. These are the lean times for rents. The disconnect between rents and house payments has grown too large. People will commit to a higher than necessary house payments instead of lower rents because they believe they will get some sort of insane appreciation. They will buy the house that rents at $1200 a month for $1800 a month in house payments because they think they are going to get 20% appreciation on it.

The second they decide they aren't getting the appreciation, a whole lot of them are going to want that $1200 house. So many in fact that it will easily become a $1300-1350 house. Rents and house payments will come back closer together. The house price will depreciate enough to knock the house payment back down to say $1500-1550.

Silly man, I'm a landlord. Rents have been DEPRESSED during record home ownership. The second people stop buying, they still need a place to live and when they won't buy, they RENT. When they walk away from $1800 a month, $1350 for the exact same property looks like a steal. Property appreciation is nice for my net-worth but it isn't liquid. I don't get to spend it month to month. I especially don't get to spend it on houses that could be 30% lower in price on a foreclosure.

If/When housing prices drop 30%, I'll be the happiest man in this forum.

Quote:
One thing your responses in another thread made clear, however, was that you didn't anticipate the tremendous growth of at least one major industry that benefitted from the war. It's apparent that one of the reasons was likely a problem that afflicts many people who apparently hold opinions shaped by political ideologies: the inability to recognize real motives of economic movers because doing so would undermine parts of the ideologically-based belief system.

Translated. You know nothing about my finances, and you don't like my political beliefs, so obviously I'm going to end up bad.

I love the total lack of hard information in your posts. You let others fill it in for you and then later claim you weren't saying what they filled in for you. It is hilarous to watch.

Quote:
And this is what we are seeing here. Rather than dealing with the situation in a realistic manner, you've offered a series of excuses, much in the way many bush supporters did with qaqaa. The problem here, however, is that there is no justification for stripping all of the externalities off of something like a homeownership statistic when it's an issue the people you are talking to have to deal with in their own lives in the real world.

Hahahahaha... God. I need to wipe the tears away. Yes, us Bush supporters have stripped away all the externalities. We've ignored things like the 5.4% growth rate. The actual growth of the economy. The slight raise in interest rates to offset an economy that might actually risk overheating because it is so strong.

Thanks for the laugh. I'll continue to do so, all the way to the bank.

Thanks also for the lack of hard information, the continual insinuation and insults that pass for information in your posts and for discrediting yourself better than I could.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #30 of 58
11/1/04 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
We've ignored things like the 5.4% growth rate. The actual growth of the economy.

GDP? It's already slowed down to ~3 then 3.7 since the beginning of the year and it's driven by consumer debt and gov't spending.

So you want a mistake pointed out there your are ^^. Like I said, you make mistakes in just about every post. It's not a insult, unless you find the truth insulting.
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post #31 of 58
11/1/04 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
GDP? It's already slowed down to ~3 then 3.7 since the beginning of the year and it's driven by consumer debt and gov't spending.

So you want a mistake pointed out there your are ^^. Like I said, you make mistakes in just about every post. It's not a insult, unless you find the truth insulting.

Do you also find it insulting to mention that we've had two interest rates hike this year to help bring about part of that slowed growth? We also have $50 oil which has knocked a bit of growth off. Neither of those are policies the president can directly control. Also nothing is terrible about 3-4% growth. I don't know what you are expecting, but that is certainly a reasonable range.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #32 of 58
11/1/04 at 1:42pm
Thread Starter 
And a big crimp affecting oil prices, among many other big crimps, has been supply problems because of ongoing conflicts in the ME. Hopefully someone can fix Iraq enough to keep our companies there. Oh, wait. You don't believe in that. Not to mention that we need to be developing alternative energy sources and that this oil rise has most people expecting GDP growth to slow over the next couple of years (though, barring any more stupid bush admin moves, it should stay in the 3% range).

One of the major issues with future oil prices is the potential for a future bush admin to attack Iran, not to mention Bush's unwillingness to tap the strategic reserves.

So, yeah, it does have a lot to do with whether we have Kerry or Bush in the White House for the next 4 years.

Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Neither of those are policies the president can directly control.

In other words, you are wrong here, meaning this is the second post in a row where you made a mistake.

Let's rehash:

1. GDP growth is has been is 3.7% and expected to slow not "5.4%" as you claimed.
2. Presidential policies do very much affect oil prices.

So that would be a definite yes on being able to outline your mistakes.
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post #33 of 58
11/1/04 at 2:17pm
Thread Starter 
BTW, I decided to read the rest of your post and couldn't help but notice how interesting it was that you went from claiming that home ownership as an indicator of economic success to discussing how you believe you've positioned yourself for an inevitable drop in home ownership, a decline due to exactly what dfiler and I pointed out. p^~p much?
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post #34 of 58
11/1/04 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Blah Blah Blah...

In other words, you are wrong here, meaning this is the second post in a row where you made a mistake.

Let's rehash:

1. GDP growth is has been is 3.7% and expected to slow not "5.4%" as you claimed.
2. Presidential policies do very much affect oil prices.

So that would be a definite yes on being able to outline your mistakes.

You did catch a typo. If you know current financial stats you should have known it was a type though rather than wasting all that time on it.

Unemployment rate is 5.4%. I didn't mean to say growth rate there. The fact that I mentioned them twice should have tipped you off. I type too fast to sometimes.

That dealt with, no one believes 3.7% growth is bad. You are also welcome to mention which presidential policies you believe are affecting the oil prices. I've read that production is at full tilt and that China is manipulating the prices via some hording. Toss in your two cents there.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #35 of 58
11/1/04 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
BTW, I decided to read the rest of your post and couldn't help but notice how interesting it was that you went from claiming that home ownership as an indicator of economic success to discussing how you believe you've positioned yourself for an inevitable drop in home ownership, a decline due to exactly what dfiler and I pointed out. p^~p much?

giant, for someone who claims not to hate it when people can't understand "complicated" things, you sure seem to play dumb a lot.

Record home ownership can still occur even with price declines. Record stock ownership has still occurred even while we have ridden out a bubble. No one would suggest that middle class folks having enough money to invest in stocks or real estate is a sign of financial hardship, regardless of whether they get a short term loss or hold for the long term gain. They would never even suggest that having enough money to invest and choosing not to invest out of fear of financial risk is a hardship.

You and dfler suggested that the market could be in a bubble and that we "all" were at risk as a result. I showed you how I am not at risk. If the market goes up or down, I benefit. Smart financial planning yields gains no matter what kind of market you are in. It simply changes what you do, but doesn't change the fact that you can still make money. Finally lack of home price appreciation doesn't even mean people will have financial hard times. It simply means they might put their money somewhere else like stocks where they hope for a better return. None of this is hard to understand. I really don't get why you play coy on it.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 58
11/1/04 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Pretend for a second that local law and policy can have an effect as well.

Nick


I said " No excuses please ".

It's been way too long since the job market has been really good for those to work.


Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #37 of 58
11/1/04 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
That dealt with, no one believes 3.7% growth is bad.

Please adjust that growth percentage for the mammoth debt we now have. It's probably about a -47.2% growth rate.
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post #38 of 58
11/1/04 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
La la la la la la la la la Bush bad, lost jobs la la la la la la la la not listening.


In a nutshell this is at the heart of the problem.



OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #39 of 58
11/1/04 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I don't consider it bad at all.

Nick


I'm sure!
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post #40 of 58
11/1/04 at 8:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You did catch a typo. If you know current financial stats you should have known it was a type though rather than wasting all that time on it.

Unemployment rate is 5.4%. I didn't mean to say growth rate there. The fact that I mentioned them twice should have tipped you off. I type too fast to sometimes.

COULD YOU POSSIBLY LIE MORE OBVIOUSLY?
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman and now he's flat out lying about it
We've ignored things like the 5.4% growth rate. The actual growth of the economy. The slight raise in interest rates to offset an economy that might actually risk overheating because it is so strong.

You didn't mean to say growth rate? A 3 sentence long typo? Absolutely, positively pathetic.
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