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Tiger: Safari to gain native PDF, Postscript support, Spotlight in dialogs

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
With the latest pre-release builds of Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger," Apple's Safari Web browser has gained support for additional file formats while the company's Spotlight technology continues to conquer new territory through the OS.

Apple Computer's forthcoming meta-based Spotlight search technology will be accessible through a wide range of Tiger applications in addition to the Mac OS X Finder, sources tell AppleInsider.

In the most recent builds of the forthcoming OS, Apple has revised its Navigation Services (open and save dialog boxes) to seamlessly incorporate the search technology. In addition to a built-in Spotlight search field, the dialogs sport a Spotlight location bar to further refine searches, effectively reducing the time and patience required to locate files in the file system.



Meanwhile, sources are reporting several other changes to Tiger since the first pre-release of the system, which was distributed in June. By default, screenshots are now saved in PNG format, as opposed to PDF. Additionally, an update to the Tiger's Safari Web browser will display PDF and Postscript documents without the need for a third party plug-in.

Sources have also noted the addition of multiple iChat accounts in the most recent builds of iChat 3.0, a forthcoming update to Apple's instant message software. iTunes integration also remains as an option in the application—albeit non-functional—but tabbed chats have yet to surface.

Apple this weekend seeded Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger build 8A294 to its general developer population, and followed up with a slightly modified release of the same build, which was delivered to employees and trusted third party affiliates on Monday.

Update: iTunes integration in the latest builds of iChat 3.0 does in fact function properly, but requires last week's release of iTunes 4.7.
post #2 of 34
PDF/PS Support in Safari

All I can say is, its about time. I know there is a lot going on with the WebCore team but wouldn't they consider all the PDF talk going on with Quartz that they would natively support PDF and Postscripts documents inline? Ah well, better late then never.

PNG Screenshots

Very nice. For those that haven't invested in 3rd party screen-capture utilities (myself) I'd love to see a return to a lossless compression format for screen and window captures.

Great additions, although depending on how well they integrate PDFs with Safari, Schubert it might be losing mindshare.
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post #3 of 34
All sounds good!

For iChat... does this mean multiple account AT ONCE--like business and personal?
post #4 of 34
iTunes integration DOES work in 8A294...

Just make sure you installed iTunes 4.7
post #5 of 34
Adding PDF to Safari in Tiger is nothing. With the PDFKit, they just have to load a different view. That's nothing special.

Now of course, why didn't they use the private APIs a while ago? Anyone's guess, but this isn't all that significant.
post #6 of 34
The addition of Spotlight to Open/Save dialogs makes a LOT of sense and I really like it.

One thing I would like to see in Navigation Services (Open/Save dialogs) is the ability to rename files within those dialogs. That ability has been in Windows for a long time, and I don't think it would be a bad thing for it to exist in Mac OS, as well.
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by IonYz

PNG Screenshots

Very nice. For those that haven't invested in 3rd party screen-capture utilities (myself) I'd love to see a return to a lossless compression format for screen and window captures.

PNG is lossless. Or did I not understand what you were saying?
post #8 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
PNG is lossless. Or did I not understand what you were saying?

Previous versions of OS X used TIFF (IIRC) then they moved to PDF which is lossy. At least in some of the examples I had at the time they showed artifacts under closer inspection. Now they will be returning to a lossless (PNG) format.
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post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by IonYz

Great additions, although depending on how well they integrate PDFs with Safari, Schubert it might be losing mindshare.

Ooh. Thanks for that.
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post #10 of 34
Now having a spotlight search dialog in the open dialog makes sense, but how does having one in the save dialog work?
post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by MPMoriarty
Now having a spotlight search dialog in the open dialog makes sense, but how does having one in the save dialog work?

Maybe to find the folder you're trying to save a file in?

Honestly... not being sarcastic... but that is about the only reason I can think of to have Spotlight in the Save dialog as well.
post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by ct77
Maybe to find the folder you're trying to save a file in?

Honestly... not being sarcastic... but that is about the only reason I can think of to have Spotlight in the Save dialog as well.

Yeah that's what I figured. Would that really be necessary?
post #13 of 34
it doesn't seem like it would be used a lot, but i can remember times when i couldn't remember exactly what folder i was saving project files to. when you start dealing with networked file servers i bet it becomes much more useful. we had a HUGE system at my last job with literally thousands of separate job folders for different sized layouts. it was a serious PITA to find where to save some files when you were working on them.
post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by MPMoriarty
Yeah that's what I figured. Would that really be necessary?

Saving on top of another file.
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post #15 of 34
the real question is is that does it append your name as the author to every document you create? Because, that would be a litttle weird. Can you also append keywords to your files?
post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Nebagakid
Can you also append keywords to your files?

Just put keywords in each files comments. You can then use Spotlight to search with.
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post #17 of 34
I still can't get Mail 2.0 to connect to my university's Cyrus Imap mail server over SSL. The WWDC version didn't work and neither did this one. Is anyone else able to use mail over SSL. I haven't tried POP yet, but POP is kind of useless for me. I really like the new mail look, but I'm not sure it will get me away from Thunderbird. Thunderbird is the first cross platform mail program that has the same options menu on Windows, Mac and Linux. As a sysadmin in a mixed office environment I can't tell you what a relief it is to have 1 consitent interface after years dealing Eudora which is basically like two completely different programs on Mac or PC.

By the way the "installer" tried to upgrade the WWDC version and that appeared to be a complete mess. I couldn't even get DHCP to work.
post #18 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by IonYz
Previous versions of OS X used TIFF (IIRC) then they moved to PDF which is lossy. At least in some of the examples I had at the time they showed artifacts under closer inspection. Now they will be returning to a lossless (PNG) format.

I don't think you understand the TIFF or PDF formats. Both of them are like .mov in that they (sort of) are shells to fit other formats in. TIFF for instance has both lossless and lossy compressions options, including a jpeg variant (actually 2 variants, but one of them has been disowned as being unworkable in the real world... only Windows uses it now).

PDF is by nature a vector format (the ultimate in lossless), but there are lots of provisions to put in other graphics formats into objects in PDF, such as TIFF, JPEG, GIF, PNG, etc...

The old TIFF screenshots were done losslessly, and the PDF's were the same thing put inside a PDF shell. I don't remember off-hand if either used the ZIP or LZW compression options avalible... and they might not have because Windows computers often have a problem reading those formats (Microsoft has ben unwilling to put support for the standards into the OS). Neither one was lossly, nor do I expect the PNG's to be lossly (although the PNG format does allow for it).

The nice thing about PNG is that every PNG reader out there supports the compression options, and it is pretty good (much better than GIF, and capable of 24bit color whereas GIF is only 8 or 16). I am not arguing against PNG... just making the comment that it is not as big a deal as it was made out to be.
post #19 of 34
PostScript?

Do we have Display PostScript again?

That would be too cool - maybe this is just a ps2pdf by safari.
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by ct77
Maybe to find the folder you're trying to save a file in?

Honestly... not being sarcastic... but that is about the only reason I can think of to have Spotlight in the Save dialog as well.

Well, not just to find the folder per se, but to find where like files are stored so you can store this file there (so you're not looking for a folder name or property, but search for other files dealing with your task, and save this file in or around this area.
post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by ClimbingTheLog
PostScript?

Do we have Display PostScript again?

That would be too cool - maybe this is just a ps2pdf by safari.

In 10.3, Preview, the application, supports displaying PostScript files directly, bypassing Adobe or printing the document. So, basically, Safari would support it in-line. Although I can't say I've ever come across a PS file while using a browser.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by ClimbingTheLog
PostScript?

Do we have Display PostScript again?

That would be too cool - maybe this is just a ps2pdf by safari.

The latter. DPS is history.
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post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Well, not just to find the folder per se, but to find where like files are stored so you can store this file there (so you're not looking for a folder name or property, but search for other files dealing with your task, and save this file in or around this area.

That makes a lot of sense.

Damn, for Spotlight and it's tight integration with the OS alone, Tiger is going to kick ass.

I predict the need for and use of huge hierarchies of folders will drop off dramatically. In time, I think people will just start saving files in one or a few locaitons, using Smart Folders to group files and Spotlight to find what they need, when.

Perfect for "messy desk" type people like me. =)
post #24 of 34
You obviously didn't install from the DVD. You probably just mounted and ran osinstall.mpkg correct? If you do this SSL connections will not work in safari or any other OS service. You have to burn to dvd and install. Not sure why but it just is.

Quote:
Originally posted by phasornc
I still can't get Mail 2.0 to connect to my university's Cyrus Imap mail server over SSL. The WWDC version didn't work and neither did this one. Is anyone else able to use mail over SSL. I haven't tried POP yet, but POP is kind of useless for me. I really like the new mail look, but I'm not sure it will get me away from Thunderbird. Thunderbird is the first cross platform mail program that has the same options menu on Windows, Mac and Linux. As a sysadmin in a mixed office environment I can't tell you what a relief it is to have 1 consitent interface after years dealing Eudora which is basically like two completely different programs on Mac or PC.

By the way the "installer" tried to upgrade the WWDC version and that appeared to be a complete mess. I couldn't even get DHCP to work.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by ct77
In time, I think people will just start saving files in one or a few locaitons, using Smart Folders to group files and Spotlight to find what they need, when.

Perfect for "messy desk" type people like me. =)

You have NO IDEA the depths of laziness I will soon sink to My file naming will improve slightly, and my file organization will collapse into chaos. My desktop will be a mess. And I won't care since I'll still find everything
post #26 of 34
Well the new OS is looking good eh?
Does anyone know how spotlight searches on remote volumes?

For instance - does it
1) create a local index of a remote volume? (very quick)
OR
2) send a remote MacOSX-computer a spotlight query, and get sent the results (quick, network efficient, and takes up NO local hard disk space) OR
3) use the old search system for remote volumes?

Anyone know?
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by GregAlexander
Well the new OS is looking good eh?
Does anyone know how spotlight searches on remote volumes?

For instance - does it
1) create a local index of a remote volume? (very quick)
OR
2) send a remote MacOSX-computer a spotlight query, and get sent the results (quick, network efficient, and takes up NO local hard disk space) OR
3) use the old search system for remote volumes?

Anyone know?

No, I don't know, but I'd have to believe it'd be item #1 (I'm assuming you can index a remote volume, I don't know why you couldn't). Item 2 wouldn't work too well because
(a) the other computer might not be OS X,
and
(b) you have to deal with permissions and such, so the results would have to be returned not only after reading the index, but then checking the permissions of each result to make sure you have permissions to see the file or its contents.

But, if we assume its (1), then does that mean the results are available even if the server isn't connected? You know, so, if you need to find a file, you can search all your networks and local disks, find its on a particular share, and then just connect to that one (rather than the 20-odd other shares you connect to). Or at least know, when you're on the road, that its sitting on the server, and call someone to mail it to you (if you can't connect remotely).
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
No, I don't know, but I'd have to believe it'd be item #1 (I'm assuming you can index a remote volume, I don't know why you couldn't). Item 2 wouldn't work too well because
(a) the other computer might not be OS X,
and
(b) you have to deal with permissions and such, so the results would have to be returned not only after reading the index, but then checking the permissions of each result to make sure you have permissions to see the file or its contents.

But, if we assume its (1), then does that mean the results are available even if the server isn't connected? You know, so, if you need to find a file, you can search all your networks and local disks, find its on a particular share, and then just connect to that one (rather than the 20-odd other shares you connect to). Or at least know, when you're on the road, that its sitting on the server, and call someone to mail it to you (if you can't connect remotely).

But how does that relate to privacy? If I connect to my friends Mac to get a file, will I have all his document info on my Mac and similarly my info on his? (Not to mention the waist of space if I have indexes of multiple Macs on my laptop!) And isn't Spotlight suppose to take forever to initially index everything?

I'm sure they have some sort of solution for this (or is this what stopped M$ from getting their head around WinFS)
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post #29 of 34
According to the info linked from Apple's ADC pages in this thread, Spotlight Store is created and accessed per filesystem, i.e., per volume and stores metadata for files on that volume only. Spotlight can be told to search on remote volumes and pull up data from the store quickly rather than having to index the whole volume itself or keeping that Store index data on the home drive. It's a modular approach.

How that intersects with privacy and permissions, I don't know. Spotlight might respect user permissions for files as part of its metadata store. If that's not true, remember that Spotlight only cares about metadata, not the files themselves, so at least they won't be able to open the referenced file. Still, I suspect that Spotlight must be permissions aware, or else imagine all the gobbledygook it would bring up from hidden files and folders on your root volume alone!
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
According to the info linked from Apple's ADC pages in this thread, Spotlight Store is created and accessed per filesystem, i.e., per volume and stores metadata for files on that volume only. Spotlight can be told to search on remote volumes and pull up data from the store quickly rather than having to index the whole volume itself or keeping that Store index data on the home drive. It's a modular approach.

Cool. So what happens when connecting to Mac OS 10.0-10.3, Linux, or Windows?

Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
How that intersects with privacy and permissions, I don't know. Spotlight might respect user permissions for files as part of its metadata store. If that's not true, remember that Spotlight only cares about metadata, not the files themselves, so at least they won't be able to open the referenced file. Still, I suspect that Spotlight must be permissions aware, or else imagine all the gobbledygook it would bring up from hidden files and folders on your root volume alone!

But imagine, Girlfriend tries to find file and searches for everything created in the last 7 days and finds all sorts of 'interesting' stuff in a FileVault account or a friends connected computer. Sure she can't open any of it, but the metadata could be just as incriminating.

Not that it would ever happen or anything!
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post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by miggs97
Cool. So what happens when connecting to Mac OS 10.0-10.3, Linux, or Windows?

Same as now, I imagine - a limited fallback. Apple has really taken the philosophy of graceful fallback to heart.

Quote:
But imagine, Girlfriend tries to find file and searches for everything created in the last 7 days and finds all sorts of 'interesting' stuff in a FileVault account or a friends connected computer. Sure she can't open any of it, but the metadata could be just as incriminating.

Not that it would ever happen or anything!

Easy one - permissions are another metadata. Have an implicit search criteria of 'files I can read'.
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post #32 of 34
Interesting responses. The fallback to searching older systems must be some type of issue - though I imagine Apple is less worried about old Mac OS systems and more about Windows. I wonder if Apple would release a 'service' for Windows to aid in Apple searching - it could even be a Rendezvous based search that also seemlessly gives you the smb and share details to connect to the computer.

Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
(b) you have to deal with permissions and such, so the results would have to be returned not only after reading the index, but then checking the permissions of each result to make sure you have permissions to see the file or its contents.

Doesn't spotlight have to do that now anyway?

I mean, I share my actual computer with 2 other people. If I do a local hard disk search spotlight is going to have to NOT bring up their files - I have no right to see them (and if I can't open them anyway there just noise in my results!).
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by webmail
You obviously didn't install from the DVD. You probably just mounted and ran osinstall.mpkg correct? If you do this SSL connections will not work in safari or any other OS service. You have to burn to dvd and install. Not sure why but it just is.

Here's what I did to get synch server working with my .mac account, but also fixes SSL issues with Mail, and https issues with Safari:

I am using my existing .mac account. You just need to make sure the files X509Anchors and X509Certificates from an earlier Panther install are in /System/Library/Keychains, and then go to the developer site http://www.mac.com/1/tiger_developer_setup.html and login with the appropriate test or existing .mac account that you put in your .mac preferences pane.
post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by IonYz
PDF/PS Support in Safari

All I can say is, its about time. I know there is a lot going on with the WebCore team but wouldn't they consider all the PDF talk going on with Quartz that they would natively support PDF and Postscripts documents inline? Ah well, better late then never.

Coming up from adobe even sooner
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