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What does this mean for Democrats?

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
Assuming Bush wins, which is a reasonable assumption at this point, what is the Democratic party going to do?

Republicans will have the House, Senate, Presidency and with that Presidency will come the Conservative Supreme Court Justices.

That last spot is the one place Democrats can make a stand, but with the blacks eyes these last couple of electins have given them as far as losing representation, is blocking justice nominations a path they want to walk down?

I would like to have an open and honest discussion about where there are to go from here. So if you're hard core right wing and the best thing you can come up with is "they're screwed", please get lost.
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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post #2 of 54
The talking heads on TeeVee say that some of the exit polling indicates that "values" was high on the minds of people exiting the polls. I guess that doesn't favor Kerry. I'll let others figure out why or why not?
post #3 of 54
If I were in the Democratic Party, I'd just step down and watch what they did. Believe me, NOT saying anything while they temporarily screw up the country and kill more than 1,100 men and women by sending them to harms ways, would be more effective then 2 years of campaigning on behalf of Democrats.

Some people vote for Bush just because they think that they should give a second chance to a guy that is being accused by the other party of this and that. That is a significant amount of votes that could go to the Democrats if they just, simply, let them f...k things up.
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post #4 of 54
And here is why Democrats just don't get it and will lose time and again to a lack luster republican candidate.
post #5 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Some people vote for Bush just because they think that they should give a second chance to a guy that is being accused by the other party of this and that. That is a significant amount of votes that could go to the Democrats if they just, simply, let them f...k things up.

Perhaps. But there is also a large number of people currently voting Kerry not because they favor him or Democratic Politics, rather they just want Bush out. Democrats can just as easily lose those votes as they could gain the ones you speak of.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #6 of 54
The Democrats....

...they'll regroup and come up with another attack strategy, but at least they won't be going by their 40-year old playbook...
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Crunch for the Cure!
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post #7 of 54
After Clinton they went right back to the 40 year play book. Democrats have no new ideas and refuse to change.
post #8 of 54
And the new ideas you speak of would be, "God hates Gays", and "We'll smoke 'em out"?

dang...
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
And the new ideas you speak of would be, "God hates Gays", and "We'll smoke 'em out"?

dang...

that wasn't new...
...i mean it was in the Bible

good try though
Crunch for the Cure!
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---------------------------------
God created Adam and Eve, He didnt create Adam and Steve
-Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
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Crunch for the Cure!
http://www.find-a-drug.org/

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God created Adam and Eve, He didnt create Adam and Steve
-Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
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post #10 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
And the new ideas you speak of would be, "God hates Gays", and "We'll smoke 'em out"?

dang...

I can't tell you what the new ideas are because the democrats don't have any. Other than tax more and pay for more social welfare programs. Maybe they should call it the "New Deal". Yea that's catchy!
post #11 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I can't tell you what the new ideas are because the democrats don't have any. Other than tax more and pay for more social welfare programs. Maybe they should call it the "New Deal". Yea that's catchy!


You claim to have new ideas. I'm asking about your new ideas, of course, apart from "God hates gays", "We'll smoke 'em out", and the best of all "they hate our freedom...." (ooh, i remember the best of the best...), "we went to war, to catch this guy, after all, he once tried to kill my father..." (Bush claiming that Saddam tried to kill GHB.)

hmmmmmm... re-read the Bible Neo; I think you read it with the medieval mind.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #12 of 54
No I said the democrats don't have new ideas. Unless you know if some I haven't heard about.
post #13 of 54
And I'm saying what your (Republican) new ideas.
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post #14 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
And I'm saying what your (Republican) new ideas.

This thread is about democrats.
post #15 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
This thread is about democrats.


Sure it is, but you claim they don't have new ideas, which means you do. I don't believe you do, so I want to be sure you do.

Anyway, don't answer. I already got my answer.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #16 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Sure it is, but you claim they don't have new ideas, which means you do. I don't believe you do, so I want to be sure you do.

Anyway, don't answer. I already got my answer.

Don't tell me you got it from Dan Rather...
Crunch for the Cure!
http://www.find-a-drug.org/

---------------------------------
God created Adam and Eve, He didnt create Adam and Steve
-Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
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Crunch for the Cure!
http://www.find-a-drug.org/

---------------------------------
God created Adam and Eve, He didnt create Adam and Steve
-Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
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post #17 of 54
Thread Starter 
So much for intelligent discussion.

Another bicker thread. God knows we don't have enough of those. Scott, I asked for ideas for their future, not analysis of the present...
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
post #18 of 54
Round up the fags.

Bomb another Godless country.

Order up another round of tax cuts.
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post #19 of 54
Can't do much about voter fraud.
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post #20 of 54
What does it mean? Hmmmm:

1. The People do not agree with your vision for America.

2. 51% of people are Bush voters... 3 million more than Kerry.

3. Of those with the opportunity to speak on the issue, 75% or so do not want gay marriage.

4: Dem's LOST seats in both houses of the US Congress.

5: The BS didn't work. Michael Moore included.

6: You have FOUR more years of Bush and two more years of Republican congressional control.

Shall I go on?
8)
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post #21 of 54
Hopefully they realize that doing things like stabbing people like Howard Dean in the back is a bad idea.

The Democratic Party can go straight to hell for all I care (and for all I've cared since before the 2000 election).

Idiots.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #22 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Hopefully they realize that doing things like stabbing people like Howard Dean in the back is a bad idea.

The Democratic Party can go straight to hell for all I care (and for all I've cared since before the 2000 election).

Idiots.

Howard Dean could have won. Maybe. A hell of a lot closer than John F'n Kerry. So what if a guy gets orgasmic at a rally and screams?


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post #23 of 54
And Howard Dean wouldn't have forgotten Poland.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #24 of 54
this means the first woman president in 2008
post #25 of 54
Hillary is unelectable. Do you honestly believe that middle America will vote for a woman? That's even more delusional than people who thought Kerry had a shot at winning.

We will have a black male president before we have a female president, you can bet the house on that. Anyone who has paid even the tiniest bit of attention to America's history with regard to race and gender relations would know that.

The best shot the Dems have is someone like Dean. They need a fire-breather. No lifer from Congress.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #26 of 54
middle america who cares? take ohio and fight for florida and it is done. and there are women in middle america believe me.
post #27 of 54
Quote:
Spontaneously, I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik and said to Bernie, "Thank God George Bush is our President." And I say it again tonight, "Thank God George Bush is our President."

Rudy Giuliani
30 August 2004
RNC Convention Speech

What is to happen to the democrats? A downward spiral for some time. As the mayor said, thank God President Bush and the Republicans are in office, for the foreseeable future, so we dont have to worry about what will become of the democrats. You have four plus years of self-loathing to figure it out.
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post #28 of 54
So you don't care if (that?) there is no opposition to keep the Republicans in check?
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post #29 of 54
The democratic party in America is dead. It's either going to limp along like it currently is (waiting for another Clinton) or it's going to get smart and remake itself as a truly centrist party.

It's going to take a long time, though. At least 20 years.
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post #30 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
And here is why Democrats just don't get it and will lose time and again to a lack luster republican candidate.

Like the lack luster republican candidate you voted for yesterday? Gotta admit I agree with this part of your post.
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post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Hillary is unelectable. Do you honestly believe that middle America will vote for a woman? That's even more delusional than people who thought Kerry had a shot at winning.

We will have a black male president before we have a female president, you can bet the house on that. Anyone who has paid even the tiniest bit of attention to America's history with regard to race and gender relations would know that.

The best shot the Dems have is someone like Dean. They need a fire-breather. No lifer from Congress.

I think that this is absolutely correct.

To address the thread. I really do hope that this doesn't mean the collapse of America's only opposition party. It should be obvious why.

Democrats, and 'liberals', aren't 'the enemy'. It's shameful that 'liberal' has become a perjorative term. Disagreeing with liberalism is one thing but this attempt to build a consensus that can only alienate half the country at the expense of the civilised exchange of ideas is terribly dangerous and makes the country poorer.

Liberal American values and politicians make just as valid a part of the nation's political history as conservative. The Democratic Party's more conservative than it's ever been, as far as I can make out from their Presidential candidate.

They do certainly need a fire-breathing Howard Dean to grab back the middle ground and pound on about social justice, diplomacy, corruption, the government's social contract, civil rights and whatnot.

That's not going to be this Democratic Party then, and that's worrying for the rest of us and bad for America.
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
I think that this is absolutely correct.

To address the thread. I really do hope that this doesn't mean the collapse of America's only opposition party. It should be obvious why.

Democrats, and 'liberals', aren't 'the enemy'. It's shameful that 'liberal' has become a perjorative term. Disagreeing with liberalism is one thing but this attempt to build a consensus that can only alienate half the country at the expense of the civilised exchange of ideas is terribly dangerous and makes the country poorer.


...

Why do you knee jerk and blame this on the right? Do you think Moore's special brand of patriotism brought people together or maybe helped to polarize them? Do you think Dean's admonishment to the south to stop voting on "god, gays and guns" brought people together or maybe helped to polarize them? Maybe the ACLU should keep supporting terrorists' rights while at the same time relentlessly attacking the boy scouts?

Nope! It's all the Right's fault.
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Why do you knee jerk and blame this on the right? Do you think Moore's special brand of patriotism brought people together or maybe helped to polarize them? Do you think Dean's admonishment to the south to stop voting on "god, gays and guns" brought people together or maybe helped to polarize them? Maybe the ACLU should keep supporting terrorists' rights while at the same time relentlessly attacking the boy scouts?

Nope! It's all the Right's fault.

But that's just the point: he can't say the things he does without someone like you questioning his patriotism.
Thanks for making my point for me so rapidly and succinctly. While I'm at it, ask yourself why 'conservative' isn't a pejorative term when 'liberal' is.

Oh, and if you'd seen his last film you'd know that Moore's a patriot.
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
But that's just the point: he can't say the things he does without someone like you questioning his patriotism.

I didn't question his patriotism. I just called it a special brand. Do you think Moore helped or hurt Kerry's election? Do you think he brought people together or pushed them apart?


Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Thanks for making my point for me so rapidly and succinctly. While I'm at it, ask yourself why 'conservative' isn't a pejorative term when 'liberal' is.

Oh, and if you'd seen his last film you'd know that Moore's a patriot.


Thanks for showing me the tunnel vision of the left is intact.
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I didn't question his patriotism. I just called it a special brand.

It's almost impossible to have a rational discussion with someone who can say something like that with a straight face.
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post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
It's almost impossible to have a rational discussion with someone who can say something like that with a straight face.


Aw! Come on Harald didn't you know there are different brands of patriotism to fit any occasion. Just like cigars or liquor.

Not!

Scott's just not grasping the concept of right and wrong.
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #37 of 54
I'll ignore stupid comments and say that I think Moore starts off from a position of being a patriot. It's his sloppy execution that results in lies and distortions about his own country and its leadership that make is so special.


So anyone want to pull their head out of the sand and answer the question? Did Moore help to bring people together or "polarize them"?
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I'll ignore stupid comments and say that I think Moore starts off from a position of being a patriot. It's his sloppy execution that results in lies and distortions about his own country and its leadership that make is so special.


So anyone want to pull their head out of the sand and answer the question? Did Moore help to bring people together or "polarize them"?


Bush holding the hand of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is a lie? G. H. Bush's video of visiting King Abdullah and talkign to him about oil is a lie?

Osama's family leaving the US after 9/11 as laid down by Prince Bandard (the favorite ambassador of Bush) is a lie?

Hamid Karzhai being an advisor of Unocal is a lie? Unocal's CEO being one of the biggest donators to Bush's campaign is a lie? Halliburton getting 7 billion dollar no-bid contracts is a lie? Cheney still getting salaries from Halliburton is a lie?

Moore is a filmmaker, not a politican. His job is not to bring people together, but to make films. He made a film, and the guy that was in charge of bringing people together, made the country even more polarized and divided. Or is this one of Moore's lies too?
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post #39 of 54
Here and here.


Moore may not be trying to bring people together but don't try to tell me the blame for the "polarization" rest with republicans.

Here's an image that helps bring people together. Nothing "polarizing" about it.

post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott


Moore may not be trying to bring people together but don't try to tell me the blame for the "polarization" rest with republicans.

Moore does not make policy. He reacts to it.

Damn, Moore is the new Bill Clinton, isn't he?
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