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Country afraid of Gays,,, Bush Wins - Page 3  

post #81 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Mated
And I do not believe that homosexuality needs to be taught to 12 year olds, or that gays should be free to advocate or promote their personal choice to minors.

But, sadly that is exactly what will happen.

Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Mated
But legislating a personal faith that discriminates against the choices of consenting adults as a constitutional amendment is by far a bigger crime IMO.

1% of the population is 'gay', so that means that 99% of the population will be forced (no choice) to adopt it as being 'normal'. It will be forced by gay activists into school books and curriculum. Look at the overcompensation with regard to the black community. It is already happening on TV. Name me a sitcom that doesn't have a gay character in it. Admittedly I don't watch much TV other than news, but it seems that when I flip through the channels, they are everywhere. It is not even close to proportionate.

If that is what people want to watch, i guess it will continue. It just seems out of whack to me.

Making gay marriage legal only makes that trend worse, or better, depending on your view.
post #82 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Mated
Were talking about young kids being taught about gay sex. Schools, adults, older kids, gays, etc. Kids are inquisitive, they ask questions of others.

That you choose 1 word out of a very logical rational statement to highlight is telling.

As far as I know, no one is talking about teaching school kids about your wonderful list of blowjobs, rectums, fisting, anal sex, etc. Heterosexuals already have all the same kinds of sex that gays have, and there's no reason to believe that an anti-gay marriage amendment has anything to do with the teaching of any of those things in schools. \
post #83 of 335
Would someone please remind me WTF is wrong with Civil Unions?

"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #84 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
As far as I know, no one is talking about teaching school kids about your wonderful list of blowjobs, rectums, fisting, anal sex, etc. Heterosexuals already have all the same kinds of sex that gays have, and there's no reason to believe that an anti-gay marriage amendment has anything to do with the teaching of any of those things in schools. \

Exactly, and 12 year old kids already know more about it than most of their parents, despite the fact that it may not be officially taught. Why is that?

Why do we need to teach kids about Gay sex too?
post #85 of 335
These are stated goals re:kids and homosexuality:

1993 GLBT March on Washington Platform:
"Culturally inclusive Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered Studies program; and information on abortion, AIDS/HIV, childcare and sexuality at all levels of education."

ALL LEVELS? My Fist, er, FIRST grader? WTF?


1973 Gay Rights Platform, Chicago Rally:

"Federal encouragement and support for sex education courses, prepared and taught by Gay women and men, presenting homosexuality as a valid, healthy preference and lifestyle as a viable alternative to heterosexuality."

A gay man telling my first grader how great it is to be gay? In public schools?
WHAT THE FSCK?

"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #86 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
But, sadly that is exactly what will happen.



1% of the population is 'gay', so that means that 99% of the population will be forced (no choice) to adopt it as being 'normal'. It will be forced by gay activists into school books and curriculum. Look at the overcompensation with regard to the black community. It is already happening on TV. Name me a sitcom that doesn't have a gay character in it. Admittedly I don't watch much TV other than news, but it seems that when I flip through the channels, they are everywhere. It is not even close to proportionate.

If that is what people want to watch, i guess it will continue. It just seems out of whack to me.

Making gay marriage legal only makes that trend worse, or better, depending on your view.

You're on very shaky ground with this post as far as Im concerned, and I don't need to tell you that this is exactly the kind of bigotted, intolerant, fundamentalist viewpoint based on nothing more than a personal interpretation of a dodgy book, which I find very disgusting. Lets find something else to talk about.
post #87 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Mated
Why do we need to teach kids about Gay sex too?

1. I don't see any danger of that happening.
2. I don't see what it has to do with these anti-gay marriage amendments.
post #88 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Mated
You're on very shaky ground with this post as far as Im concerned, and I don't need to tell you that this is exactly the kind of bigotted, intolerant, fundamentalist viewpoint based on nothing more than a personal interpretation of a dodgy book, which I find very disgusting. Lets find something else to talk about.

Fine. But you realise that noone forced you to comment on a thread that concerned - GASP - being gay and related matters.
post #89 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
1. I don't see any danger of that happening.
2. I don't see what it has to do with these anti-gay marriage amendments.

1. I think it does, as I remember from school. My personal opinion is that it doesn't need to happen for the reasons I've already stated. Not because im homophobic or fundamentalist.

2. I wasn't responding to the anti-gay marriage arrangements.
post #90 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Fine. But you realise that noone forced you to comment on a thread that concerned - GASP - being gay and related matters.

Who forced you? god? you wanted to share your opinion, well, so did I.

Am I not to have an opinion because your book tells you I am automatically wrong to be tolerant?
post #91 of 335
Anna, hows about you, me, NaplesX, and BRussel do a four-way around the world. Then we can call know of that which we speak.

I love these boards.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #92 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Anna, hows about you, me, NaplesX, and BRussel do a four-way around the world. Then we can call know of that which we speak.

I love these boards.

NaplesX has already tried it with his guitar. I think he tried it with the wrong end though!
post #93 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Mated
Who forced you? god? you wanted to share your opinion, well, so did I.

Hey, wait! You are the one that is asking for a conversation change, not me.
post #94 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Hey, wait! You are the one that is asking for a conversation change, not me.

Do you still plug in your fuzz-box?
post #95 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Mated
Do you still plug in your fuzz-box?

I don't usually use much in distortion, but I just recently bought a pedal -$159.00! It sounds good but man.

What does that have to do with being a gay sinner?

post #96 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I don't usually use much in distortion, but I just recently bought a pedal -$159.00! It sounds good but man.

What does that have to do with being a gay sinner?


You see this kind of pathetic lack of knowledge is why we need more gay lessons in schools....

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #97 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
How does that work? Is there a penalty for not voting?

Yes. m.
Killing me isn't going to help you. It isn't going to do me much good either, is it? -- The Doctor
Killing me isn't going to help you. It isn't going to do me much good either, is it? -- The Doctor
post #98 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Here are the exit polls. Kerry has 18-24 year olds, and loses every single other age demographic (though the others are close).

yep, and unfortunately, it turns out in retrospect that the 18-24 year old demographic was a worthless one to court, with only, what, 10-13% turnign out? after the nearly endless "rock the vote" campaigns to get them to register? i'm not saying THEY are worthless, but 18-24 years olds have so much else going on in their lives at the height of personal transition, voting for a future that seems so far off just never happens.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
post #99 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
yep, and unfortunately, it turns out in retrospect that the 18-24 year old demographic was a worthless one to court, with only, what, 10-13% turnign out? after the nearly endless "rock the vote" campaigns to get them to register? i'm not saying THEY are worthless, but 18-24 years olds have so much else going on in their lives at the height of personal transition, voting for a future that seems so far off just never happens.

Well, they'll most likely vote next time as well. IF they never start, they'll never vote. I think it's probably a good long term strategy.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
post #100 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Election 2004: Fear and Ignorance Rule

FaIR?
post #101 of 335
quote:
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Don't forget Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand, and Sean Penn. One of these three will be missed for their acting abilities. The other two won't be missed.
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
George Soros

You subsidize those guys' taxcuts. Why would you want people like Soros and Jane Fonda and the Hollywood crowd to spend that money abroad?
Let them at least pay sales taxes on the new toys they buy with those nice and juicy war time tax cuts.
post #102 of 335
I think it boils down to this:

Do you care if your kids are gay? If they are born gay would you want them to be forced into a heterosexual lifestyle?

If my daughter turns out to be a lesbian, personally, I don't care. I will be proud of her for being what she is. If gayness is discussed in the classroom as being okay (as well it should) it will make no difference. Safe sex should be taught in the context of gay sex and straight sex alike.

You cannot "turn" someone gay. You cannot "turn" someone straight. You can just accept them for being what they are.

As an activist for Amnesty International and a member of the AIHK LGBT Group, and as a marcher in costume at Hong Kong's FIRST EVER GAY PRIDE MARCH, I see acceptance as the future, and education about acceptance as a civic duty, for straights and gays alike, and I am proud of being part of the progressive force for tolerance.

Most people who are so afraid of equality and social acceptance for gays are really afraid of the possibility of themselves, their family or their offspring being gay. In the first case, there are a lot of people who feel threatened by the prospect of gayness coming close to them in any way, as if it were some kind of highly contagious disease. I don't understand it. We heterosexuals who know we're heterosexuals don't feel threatened in any way by gays. In my case, one of the drag queens at the march asked me back to his flat, and I politely told him I have a girlfriend. I didn't say "I'm not gay". It doesn't matter. If I'm not interested I'm not interested, regardless of the reason. Why can't we just leave it at that. I hope he did find someone to go home with that night. I don't wish loneliness on anyone.

One of my closest friends is gay. He talks about guys with my girlfriend. It doesn't bother me at all. Should it?
post #103 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
My wife and I are seriously considering moving overseas. We were considering this before today's election. But this only motivates us to look into it further.

How hard is it for an American to gain residency and find gainful work?

I understand that if you speak Norwegian, you can become a Norwegian citizen. Ten years ago, I think that you got one year to become proficient at Norwegian and then you were able to take their citizenship test. The UN loves Norway, too.

Australia has a budding movie industry.

Denmark's not safe for movie makers, evidently; might not want to go there.

Have a nice trip and goodbye.

Aries 1B
"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
post #104 of 335
1% is a low figure. I used to hear 10%, but that's been quoted as too much.

The real issue is the fact that people actually care if someone is gay. If you care, you have a problem.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
post #105 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Aries 1B
Have a nice trip and goodbye.

Go swallow a pretzel.

EDIT: Please TRY and swallow a pretzel. And go masturbate. You obviously need a release.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
post #106 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Aries 1B
I understand that if you speak Norwegian, you can become a Norwegian citizen.

REALLY!!!? That's freaking cool. I'd love to live in Norway. Time to start studying.

Hmm... after a brief search, I can't find anything online that corroborates your statement.

Quote:
$ 6 The King, or anyone he so empowers, may upon application grant nationality to a foreign national provided the applicant:

(1) is not less then 18 years of age,
(2) has resided in this realm during the last seven years,
(3) has shown good conduct, and
(4) does nog have substantial debt in connection with maintenance payments.

But that's for citizenship. I guess we should be more concerned about residency. It seems that the main criterion for obtaining residency is getting a job, and...

Quote:
English-speaking people with a fair knowledge of Norwegian have a good chance of getting a job. To find a job, read the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten, available nation-wide, or Teknisk Ukeblad (the magazine for the Association of Norwegian Chartered Engineers), or look for vacant positions at: http://www.jobbguiden.no/ or www.finn.no

So in a way, while "citizen" was not the right word, if you replace it with "resident" it seems like you're generally correct in your statement. So I might start my crash course in Nowegian after all. Especially since I know a little Cantonese. Such a trilingual combination has GOT to be valuable in the job market.
post #107 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Please TRY and swallow a pretzel. And go masturbate.


-That is hands down, no bullshit, the oddest thing I have seen on AppleInciter.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #108 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
-That is hands down, no bullshit, the oddest thing I have seen on AppleInciter.

You make me proud.

P.S. AppleInciter is a great pun.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
post #109 of 335
I'll chime in as one of the resident libertarians.

I am very much against a constitution, or indeed any law, seeking to define marriage.
I understand and emphatize with the desire of gays to get legal equality with heteros.
I also understand the desire of gays to achieve quick and easy "equality" by simply replacing the gender-specific spouse legal terms with gender neutral spouse terms. However, I think this is a lose-lose cause. No matter if the pursuit is successful, it serves to further establish and legitimize the existing law that lets the government dictate the terms of what is supposed to be an union of love. If you settle for something like that, you have achieved no recognition of your *real* rights. Everything that has been changed can just as well be changed back, since by participating in the marriage lawmaking process you have accepted that it is the business of government to tell you what constitutes marriage.

The right way? It's not easy, but it is simple. One by one, amend every law that mentions "marriage", "civil union", "spouse" or some such, till the law no longer takes into account who you live with or associate with.

I think parents have a right to teach their kid what they deem appropriate. If they were free to arrange the kids' learning like they want, including choice of school, there would be no problem. However, as long as school is public and compulsory, I can't bring myself to condemn sex education. These things can be some of the most important for a kid to learn. I think the material should explain the scientific facts of the process of human reproduction, from relationships to sex to pregnancy and birth. Also the facts about STD's, their preventance and birth control. Contrary to some knee-jerk postings on this thread, there is no reason to go into specifics of sex, other than intercourse's function in reproduction. That stuff is hardwired to the kids' brains, so it's not like teaching is even necessary. Right/wrong/do/don't should absolutely be left for parents to teach. It is despicable for a public school to push an agenda. In a loaded issue such as this, the only way to go is to take care to just show the facts, and let the students think by themselves.
post #110 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
1% of the population is 'gay'

Care to share? Every viable research into this topic quotes a percentage closer to 10%
post #111 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Yevgeny
No, the purely empirical facts of the evidence suggest that there is no such thing as morality either way. Tolerance is just as right and wrong as facism because right and wrong are semantic labels with no real meaning. Choosing one over the other is valid without regard to which one you choose because morality is a metaphysical value judgement not rooted in the empirical world. As Hume said, you can show that whipping babies causes them pain, but you cannot show that wipping babies is wrong because "wrongness" is not an empirical quality.

The more horrorific fact of the matter is that tolerance is just as correct as intolerance. Neither is provably right because there is no way to prove what is right. We just like to choose tolerance over intolerance because we are scared of where we think intolerance will take us. Alfred Ayer was right but a post modern society is scared of embracing what he wrote and so we strangely hold onto the cultural moral baggage of modernism while pretending to be post modern.

My 2 cents.

No, Ayer was not right.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #112 of 335
There was discussion of homosexuality in my sex-ed classes when I was a kid (either grade five or six) The teacher also discussed cross-dressing, transexuals and just about everything else possible. And miracle of miracles, the entire class didn't magically turn gay. The only immediate reaction we had was laughing our asses off after class because we heard the teacher say, 'anal sex' and 'transexual'. Which to 11 year old kids is a funny as having your teacher fart in the middle of class. The long term effect was that we all turned out to be very tolerant and the 10% of the class that is gay probably wasn't riddled with as much guilt for loving cock.

I posted this in another thread, Canada's definition of marriage, currently before the Supreme Court is, "Marriage, for civil purposes, is the union between two persons to the exclusion of all others." Churches can do what ever the hell they want. It's not the governments business. But the church cannot get all up in the governments business.
post #113 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
The fact that it was a debate at all is the goddamn problem.

Why am I not suprised
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #114 of 335
Quote:
1% is a low figure. I used to hear 10%, but that's been quoted as too much.

Roughly 10% is the average in the animal kingdom. A survey done years ago now showed about 4% of men (I don't think the survey included women) openly claim to be gay. It's probably closer to 10% in reality, but obviously a lot of gay men choose to lead heterosexual lives or just don't come out of the closet even for a survey. 1% is highly unlikely.

As for teaching that being gay is "normal," I don't think anyone really means normal in terms of average or commonplace as much as they mean "acceptable," or maybe the tired word "tolerance" is more appropriate. Being a redhead isn't normal, nor is being jewish, nor is satanism. But noone is proposing locking these folks out of marriage or other rights. That's admittedly extrapolating a bit, but considering that we can't trample the rights of even nazis in this country, I don't see how we can walk all over gays either. People seem to think this is a power thing, but it's merely about respecting a minority group. While I'm sure there are people who are just as militantly pro-gay-fanatical as there are those who are militantly anti-gay-fanatical, most of us who are for gay rights are simply talking about tolerance and respect. Hey, I'm not into the gay thing myself, but I I'm not going to judge someone else who is.

Quote:
1993 GLBT March on Washington Platform:
"Culturally inclusive Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered Studies program; and information on abortion, AIDS/HIV, childcare and sexuality at all levels of education."

ALL LEVELS? My ...FIRST grader? WTF? [snip]


Yeah, that is a silly idea if that's what they really meant. But I think you know what they really meant, judging by Mr. you put in there. That, and the tasteless joke tossed in.

Anyway, all of this gay education stuff seems to be somewhat beside the point.
post #115 of 335
wrong thread - deleted
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
post #116 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
As for teaching that being gay is "normal," I don't think anyone really means normal in terms of average or commonplace as much as they mean "acceptable," or maybe the tired word "tolerance" is more appropriate. Being a redhead isn't normal, nor is being jewish, nor is satanism. But noone is proposing locking these folks out of marriage or other rights. That's admittedly extrapolating a bit, but considering that we can't trample the rights of even nazis in this country, I don't see how we can walk all over gays either. People seem to think this is a power thing, but it's merely about respecting a minority group. While I'm sure there are people who are just as militantly pro-gay-fanatical as there are those who are militantly anti-gay-fanatical, most of us who are for gay rights are simply talking about tolerance and respect. Hey, I'm not into the gay thing myself, but I I'm not going to judge someone else who is.

Nicely said!!
post #117 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Care to share? Every viable research into this topic quotes a percentage closer to 10%


I think the number the homoskis use is 3%.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #118 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I think the number the homoskis use is 3%.

<dripping sarcasm>

Oh come on. My brilliant, enlightened, erudite professor told me once that we are all a little gay. Kinsey said so. Accept your inner queer, dmz.

"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #119 of 335
I don't care what percentage it is - 3% or 10%. The point is that 90+ percent of your neighbors are strait and against gay marriage. It would cheapen the institution. You may not be willing to buy into that, but the majority of US citizens do, including me.

It is the slippery slope thing, and it has already started. If marriage is defined other than a man and a woman, what stops a mother/son or cousin/cousin or man/woman/man or woman/woman/woman or whatever combination you can think of? Be honest - not much.

It seems that many are equating love exclusively with marriage. I have loved many people in my life, but yet I am only married to one of them. In reality, the spark may not be as bright as it was before, but now we have three children to raise and turn into productive citizens of our community.

And really, that is the mechanics of the marriage union, to reproduce and and replenish a society. Gay marriage would do nothing but give two, non-reproducing members of society a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Hey, don't get me wrong. We all need to feel warm and fuzzy at times. But marriage is a sacred institution to a vast majority of the world. Why not start your own institution. Call it..."The Joining" or something. Be creative and innovative.

Christmas was too "white" our brothers of of more color, so now they have Kwanzaa. Why hijack someone else's tradition?
post #120 of 335
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I don't care what percentage it is - 3% or 10%. The point is that 90+ percent of your neighbors are strait and against gay marriage.

News Flash - not all straight people (who knows about those strait people though, they sound like country music fans) are against gay marriage.
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