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Dean for D Chair

post #1 of 184
Thread Starter 
Terry McAuliffe must go. Kerry's loss is proof that running as a Republican and pretending to be a Democrat doesn't work.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/111118/941

The Democrats need a new direction towards liberalism and building their base--they have abandoned workers and have become utterly corporate. There needs be a bloodbath in the leadership of the party. Terry Mcafliffe's politics of supporting conservative positions and appeasing 'moderates' is a 3-time consecutive failure. The Democrats lost senate, house and local races to the facists under his misguided leadership. Republicans running as Democrats can't expect to win against the facists. Just look at what happen to Dashle.

Howward Dean for DNC chair!
post #2 of 184
It may be true that trying to appeal to conservatives and moderates hasn't worked. Unfortunately, it's pretty apparent to me that the reason the Dems lost isn't that they were too conservative, it's that they weren't conservative enough for the electorate.
post #3 of 184
Thread Starter 
No, the Democrats were wishy washy and had no clear platform. The Anybody But Bush is not a good plan to win an election which is essential what Terry McAullife hoped. Kerry had few strong positions on many issues and was essentially alike Bush on most social issues. It didn't work.

The reason Bush did so well is that he has a a very large solid base. The Democratic party is does not have a solid base. Just look at the electoral map -- those Bush states went by large majorities. Most of the Kerry states were squeekers and by much smaller margins.

You need a decent base before you can even think about stealing votes from the other side. Voters need to be galvanized by a candidate with charisma and positions on issues that they aree with, noy a candidate that is very similar to the enemy. Kerry was pathetic. Dashle was pathetic. They lost.
post #4 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
It may be true that trying to appeal to conservatives and moderates hasn't worked. Unfortunately, it's pretty apparent to me that the reason the Dems lost isn't that they were too conservative, it's that they weren't conservative enough for the electorate.

That is exactly right. I couldn't agree more. The Dems need a totally new agenda and new leadership.
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post #5 of 184
Dean cost Kerry the election by forcing Kerry to the left.
post #6 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Dean cost Kerry the election by forcing Kerry to the left.

I think that could be true. Though, Kerry was pretty "left" to begin with.
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post #7 of 184
Mostly WRT to the Iraq war. Kerry should have looked past Iraq and gone hard on Pakistan. Played on the publics admiration and confidence of the military by promising to force Pakistan to open up the country to US troops to get bin Laden.
post #8 of 184
They need to move left, not right. They have no courage of conviction or ideals, though, so they won't. They are idiots, they are playing not to lose and end up never giving themselves a chance to win.

They could've made waves with Dean, instead they went with Captain Pointless with a record of 20 years of stagnant Senate work and a personality to match. What did they expect from Kerry? What do they expect from a party platform that is almost indistinguishable from their opponent's?

I hope another 4 years of Bush will make the Democrats realize that they need to be unapologetic about liberal values.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #9 of 184
Yes, it's a great idea. We need our political candidates to abandon the moderate viewpoint, go to more extremes and further divide the people amongst one another. That will balance out the conservative viewpoint. The last thing we need is a candidate that will bring these sides together.
post #10 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Yes, it's a great idea. We need our political candidates to abandon the moderate viewpoint, go to more extremes and further divide the people amongst one another. That will balance out the conservative viewpoint. The last thing we need is a candidate that will bring these sides together.

Excpet that there are only two high profile moderate Republicans in the country, John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger. The rest are ULTRA-conservative. So with Kerry v. Bush we had a choice between an ULTRA-conservative and a moderate liberal. Which should we have chosen to "unite" the country?

It's not the Democrats that are the dividers. Example: Kerry says "I don't support abortion personally, but I will humbly give each state, and each citizen the right to make their own choices". That's a UNITING point of view, not a dividing one.
post #11 of 184
I don't think moving to the left is a good idea.


Maybe they could take the current platform and rethink the solutions.
post #12 of 184
What a lot of people don't see is that the Republican states are dying. The Republican Party is a white man's party, and the white man is dying as a race in some of traditionally democratic states. Look at Arizona, look at New Mexico... they're hispanicizing at a very fast rate.

And who are they gonna vote for in 4-8 years? I don't think its gonna be the Reps.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #13 of 184
The great brown hope. Immigrants are some of the hardest working industrious people in the country. Fantastic qualities for a Republican.
post #14 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
The great brown hope. Immigrants are some of the hardest working industrious people in the country. Fantastic qualities for a Republican.


They also want education, health care, and decent jobs (talking about the legal ones). None of which is offered by Republicans.

What Reps offer are wars, isolation, and polarization. Why do you think they came to US? Let me tell you: to get the puck away from the same things.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #15 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
What a lot of people don't see is that the Republican states are dying. The Republican Party is a white man's party, and the white man is dying as a race in some of traditionally democratic states. Look at Arizona, look at New Mexico... they're hispanicizing at a very fast rate.

And who are they gonna vote for in 4-8 years? I don't think its gonna be the Reps.

Hispanics largely vote Republican, actually. It's mostly related to their tendency to be Catholics and the "values" associated with their Catholicism, i.e. anti-gay, anti-abortion, etc.
post #16 of 184
They get education, they get jobs (why do you think they came here?). Bush supports guest workers and NAFTA. He's working on a central america trade agreement.

Democrats? In the union pocket. Have a protectionist attitude.


Time for the DNC to think outside the box.
post #17 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Hispanics largely vote Republican, actually. It's mostly related to their tendency to be Catholics and the "values" associated with their Catholicism, i.e. anti-gay, anti-abortion, etc.

CNN claims that latinos went 53-44 for Kerry. I agree, though, that they're largely Catholic, and tend to be more conservative than Irish/Italian Catholics, so they'll probably trend more Rep in the future.

For the Democrats, going "Republican lite" is suicide. Why the hell would anyone vote for a wishy-washy sorta-conservative when they can get the real thing? Meanwhile, your base stays home because they despise you. Kerry failed to excite moderates because he, and the Democrats, failed the "vision thing" test. Some of my wavering friends demanded to know "What will he do different? What does he actually stand for?" Democrats need an ideology, a vision. The Republican vision is easy: lower taxes, unapologetic war, and conservative Christian "values", in that order. I think "Liberty and Justice" would be a nice start for the Democrats.
post #18 of 184
The problem with moving right is that Republicans will take that as a concession and move further right.
post #19 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Excpet that there are only two high profile moderate Republicans in the country, John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger. The rest are ULTRA-conservative. So with Kerry v. Bush we had a choice between an ULTRA-conservative and a moderate liberal. Which should we have chosen to "unite" the country?

It's not the Democrats that are the dividers. Example: Kerry says "I don't support abortion personally, but I will humbly give each state, and each citizen the right to make their own choices". That's a UNITING point of view, not a dividing one.

That's absurd. There are plenty of moderate Republicans.
As far as "dividers" go, you have to be kidding. The majority is supposed to rule in this country. That's why our system is the way it is. The Democrats were unfair and merciless in their open slander of President Bush. THEY created the divide, and they got their asses kicked at the polls because of it. What's amazing is that by listening to them talk, they STILL do not know why they lost so badly acorss the nation. They're openly blaming and mocking the red states. They have become the party of the liberal Northeast and Leftcoast. They've been totally marginalized. It didn't happen by accident or because Republicans are evil.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #20 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Yes, it's a great idea. We need our political candidates to abandon the moderate viewpoint, go to more extremes and further divide the people amongst one another. That will balance out the conservative viewpoint. The last thing we need is a candidate that will bring these sides together.

The "moderate" viewpoint in American right now is right-wing.

You cannot blame this divided nation on liberals. It makes no sense.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #21 of 184
If this is a solution to "win" the Presidency, then this country has no future.
post #22 of 184
How clueless can the Dems be? You lost becasue you are so far out of touch with America. Going further left puts you further out of touch. Dean? Come on. Do you want to win any states next time?
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #23 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
How clueless can the Dems be? You lost becasue you are so far out of touch with America. Going further left puts you further out of touch. Dean? Come on. Do you want to win any states next time?


The reason the Democratic Party has no life is because it went too moderate. It isn't differentiable from the Republicans. The left is where the Democratic Party should place its sights...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #24 of 184
Ok. Go further left.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #25 of 184
useful link:

http://www.slate.com/id/2109133/

Noah thinks that going left, going right and staying put are all bad ways of looking at this. Of course, he has no answer himself, but at least it has some decent points to make against any of these schemes. Maybe a real debate will sprout.
post #26 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
What a lot of people don't see is that the Republican states are dying. The Republican Party is a white man's party, and the white man is dying as a race in some of traditionally democratic states. Look at Arizona, look at New Mexico... they're hispanicizing at a very fast rate.

And who are they gonna vote for in 4-8 years? I don't think its gonna be the Reps.

Do your homework before you throw this shit out, with a stereotype to boot. Hispanics in NM went more Republican than ever. It cost Kerry the state that Gore won. D'OH!

The Dems are in panic mode over the sliding of the Hispanic vote away from the Democratic party. In San Antonio, TX (68%+ Hispanic) Bush won by 11 percentage points. Look at the CNN.com county maps.

A white man's party? I'm in the party, the son of a bus driver and janitor, and last time I checked- black. So lose your Moore-esque BS about the "white man's party." Seems to me the only KKK member in the US Congress is a DEMOCRAT.
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post #27 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Ok. Go further left.

I second that.
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post #28 of 184
I do not think that most people understand what is meant by left.

Jesus was a liberal; and I will leave it at that.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #29 of 184
I'm having a hard time picturing Christ with a 'pro-gay/blind-eye-towards-partial-birth-abortion' agenda.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #30 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I'm having a hard time picturing Christ with a 'pro-gay/blind-eye-towards-partial-birth-abortion' agenda.

So you see him with a 'NeoCon test war on a sovereign nation/giving the spoils to the wealthy' agenda?
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post #31 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar

Jesus was a liberal; and I will leave it at that.

Yep... he came down consistently for abortion. He agreed with forced charity. He thought there were no moral absolutes or eternal consequences for actions. And he did not want religion practiced as part of public society.

Sure. Whatever.
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post #32 of 184
My cynicism is telling me that it doesn't matter if the Democrats move right or left, the only thing that matters is the message-making. Democrats have to retake the Churches, the local offices, and media spin game.

The Republicans won on the basis of religious bigotry and failures on both economics and foreign policy. The Democrats couldn't pound that message through, so therefore, their message making has totally collapsed, not to mention their polling either.

Dean has the right ideas about rebuilding from the local offices on up, so he would be the right person for the DNC chair.

Harry Reid, who seems to have Senate Minority Leader sewn up, is just going to be another Tom Daschle. Someone who will be handicapped and can't stay true to his beliefs because he is in a elephant state, albiet an unusual one.
post #33 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Yep... he came down consistently for abortion. He agreed with forced charity. He thought there were no moral absolutes or eternal consequences for actions. And he did not want religion practiced as part of public society.

Sure. Whatever.


Whoa. Abortion didn't exist. And there are a large number of liberals, like myself, who do not believe that abortion is a valid form of birth control. I would like the right on the books where there exist extenuating circumstances, as in the case of rape or life threatening conditions for the mother etc. Who is forcing you to give charity? All liberals I know base their beliefs very much in moral absolutes. Post-modern thought produces people who are not politically active (sorry but this tired line). As far as eternal consequences, heaven/hell duality aside, clearly, a long drawn out war in a foreign land will produce eternal consequences. The heaven/hell duality has never been a part of any party's political views... You are free to practice your religion, any religion, where ever you choose. The state is not free to tell you not to or to practice a religion.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #34 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Do your homework before you throw this shit out, with a stereotype to boot. Hispanics in NM went more Republican than ever. It cost Kerry the state that Gore won. D'OH!

The Dems are in panic mode over the sliding of the Hispanic vote away from the Democratic party. In San Antonio, TX (68%+ Hispanic) Bush won by 11 percentage points. Look at the CNN.com county maps.

A white man's party? I'm in the party, the son of a bus driver and janitor, and last time I checked- black. So lose your Moore-esque BS about the "white man's party." Seems to me the only KKK member in the US Congress is a DEMOCRAT.


Last time I checked NM wasn't called yet. And I was talking about 4-8 years from now, so hold your fcuking horses.

So what if you're in the party? So is Colin Powell, but that doesn't change the grand total of the White Man's Party. It is very much a white man's party; rich white folks with champaigne bubbles in their jacuzzis.

Seems to me as well, that where KKK was born and still lives, is where Bush won by a maority. That also includes San Antonio, TX. So drop your Cheney-esque BS and accept the fact that demographics are working for the Dems.
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post #35 of 184
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Yep... he came down consistently for abortion. He agreed with forced charity. He thought there were no moral absolutes or eternal consequences for actions. And he did not want religion practiced as part of public society.

Sure. Whatever.



He didn't force his beliefs on others, he didn't support fighting, and he believed everyone should have a choice on earth.
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post #36 of 184
Kerry's team was lilly fscking white, pal. Al Sharpton as the "chocolate ship in the vanilla shake" LOL I hereby expect that no white democrat EVER run against a minority republican. It's that important, right?

Condi, Powell, Elaine. Look! Non-white people as leaders in a Bush administration. Oi Vey! Of my 10 colleagues, four are black, and three of those voted Republican, and not for the first time. Keep droning about rich Republican white man racism. It's not playing. It's losing. Bad.

Racism accusations are so old and tired. The leftists need a new one, beyond racism and class warfare. It's not working, guys. Three elections in a row.... <thud>



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post #37 of 184
When is Obama 35?
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post #38 of 184
And for the record, the people blasting water cannons and using police dogs on my relatives were... Democrats. And the only black on the Supreme Court? Appointed by a Republican. And the Bush tax cut went to all of us, not just white folk.
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post #39 of 184
Yeah, I think we're at a very good point in our history in this sense: blacks can't be seens as a homogenous group of voters, and you can't just place the black population into one column. Well, it's one good thing about this country right now, anyway.
post #40 of 184
The Dems biggest fear: A black conservative Republican.
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