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Fallujah - Page 2

post #41 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Looks like it's kicked off.

This bit is reassuring:

--
Colonel Gary Brandl of the United States Marine Corps commented:_
"The enemy has a face. It is Satan's. He is in Fallujah, and we are going to destroy him."
--


Can't demonize the enemy much more than that. Too much Jack Van Impe Ministries for Col. Brandl.

Well, we've been called the Great Satan for so long, so nyah-nyah, no you're Satan.

I hate humans. When do the cats and bunnies take over?
"The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics...
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"The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics...
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post #42 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius


This is not a Crusade or war against Islam. No way.


I've agreed with you about everything up to this point. The individual soldiers are not on a crusade, they are just following orders of the retards. I believe that cross on the tank is more about protection/luck then anything else.

It could do just as well on the inside though.
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post #43 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ast3r3x
I've agreed with you about everything up to this point. The individual soldiers are not on a crusade, they are just following orders of the retards. I believe that cross on the tank is more about protection/luck then anything else.

It could do just as well on the inside though.

Apologies, it didn't convey yhe meaning I intended, probably bad idea - actually I posted it in the wrong thread (meant the Theocracy) but it wouldn't let me edit -- database problems. Seems to happen a fair bit.

Anyway, let me make one thing clear. My argument is not that the troops are fundies but that they are being targetted by the fundies. And if you're in a situation where you might die any minute - well, who can blame you taking a bit of religion.

BUT the same religious nutters that are blighting the landscape back home are at it in Iraq. THE GOVERNMENT are turning this into a religious crusade/war, not anyone else.

It is also a deliberate policy imo.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #44 of 426
The city is overrun by terrorists. It must be cleaned out for Iraq to move further. How far out of touch can the left be?
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #45 of 426
Thread Starter 
Reports are coming in that 35 US soldiers have been captured by the Iraqi resistance fighters.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #46 of 426
God fucking damnit! Fucking chickenhawk bastards.

How do Republican voters live with themselves?
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #47 of 426
Thread Starter 
It's starting to stink real bad.

The US have targetted the main hospital and arrested Doctors and staff - preventing them from attending to any casualties that will undoubtedly occur.

Boston Globe

Quote:
One main goal for taking the hospital first was likely to control information. The facility was the main source of Iraqi death tolls during the first U.S. siege of Fallujah in April, and U.S. commanders accused doctors there of exaggerating numbers, fueling public outrage that eventually forced the Marines to pull back from the city at that time.

The U.S military said Monday that insurgents controlling the hospital were ''forcing the doctors there to release propaganda and false information.''

My bold. This is a new low. Taking out the hospital so it cannot report casualty figures.



More on this outrage at Under the Same Sun.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #48 of 426
"Your job is to arrest the killers but if you kill them, then so be it "

Allawi, in an address to Iraqi troops
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #49 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
It's starting to stink real bad.

The US have targetted the main hospital and arrested Doctors and staff - preventing them from attending to any casualties that will undoubtedly occur.

Isn't it against the Geneva Convention?

How far will they go?!



(Unfortunately, there is no "Smiley" with tears in its eyes... )
post #50 of 426
Quote:
1/3/2004: Terrorists took hostage 4 Jordanians in Iraq.

11/2/2004: Terrorists blew up an Iraqi oil ministry official.

11/2/2004: Terrorists blew up more than 12 people in Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq.

11/1/2004: Terrorists blew up 15 people staying at a hotel in Tikrit, Iraq. 8 people were injured.

10/31/2004: Terrorists took hostage three election workers in Afghanistan.

10/31/2004: Terrorists blew up 7 people in a car bombing in Baghdad, Iraq. 19 people were injured.

10/30/2004: Terrorists beheaded a Japanese hostage in Iraq.

10/30/2004: Terrorists took hostage a Polish woman in Iraq.

10/18/2004: Terrorists beheaded 2 Macedonian hostages in Iraq.

10/18/2004: Terrorists blew up 12 people in two days in Baghdad and Mosul, Iraq.

10/11/2004: Terrorists blew up 2 Iraqis in Mosul, Iraq.

10/11/2004: Terrorists beheaded 2 Turkish contractors in Iraq.

10/10/2004: Terrorists blew up more than 10 people in Baghdad, Iraq. More than 15 were injured.

10/10/2004: Terrorists beheaded a British hostage in Iraq.

What about the American terrorists and war criminals who have murdered 100,000+ Iraqi civilians in the last 18 months? Oh...they do it for the benefit of big corporations...so thats just fine.

15,4. 2, 10.....that is certainly 15,4,2, and 10 too many. But I thnk 100,000 is 100,000 too many. Unless Iraqi civilians are lesser human beings, and deserve to die because (a) they don't have a Christian or Jewish label (b) they have brown skin (c) they dont consume many US products? What is the BushCorp justification for this new holocaust?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #51 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
"Your job is to arrest the killers but if you kill them, then so be it "

Allawi, in an address to Iraqi troops

Why are you quoting Allawi? The man is a known terrorist. Oh, perhaps thats why he has found favor amongst his Bushite terrorist colleagues.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #52 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by ast3r3x
I've agreed with you about everything up to this point. The individual soldiers are not on a crusade, they are just following orders of the retards. I believe that cross on the tank is more about protection/luck then anything else.

It could do just as well on the inside though.

I agree with it being 'wrong' to display the cross on the outside of the vehicle, just as it's unauthorized to wear any religious device on the outside of your uniform.

But I got a chuckle out of him being upset with his view of it being a 'Crusade', but aparently it's OK for Imans to openly call for a 'Holy Jihad' against the US and other western countries.

You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #53 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by iPoster
but aparently it's OK for Imans to openly call for a 'Holy Jihad' against the US and other western countries.

Actually theologically it IS ok.

The issue here is a hypocrisy I am objecting to rather than a religious teaching.

Islam teaches that if someone attacks you you can fight back, This is the literal translation of the Arabic word 'jihad' - ie 'struggle' not 'war'. It is used in the sense of 'overcoming an obstacle'. The word for war is 'harb' which is from a quite different root.

So the point is the Imams seem to be acting in accordance with their scriptures.

Now let's look at Christianity, where the teaching of Jesus on what you should do if attacked is also clearly outlined:

Quote:
But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other cheek (Matthew 5:39)

So even if you like to throw around the 'evil' canard (as so many do - it's the new black) then to be a Christian then you must not resist an evil person

So the issue is one of hypocrisy.

It is also one of unprovoked aggression.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #54 of 426
Does your Bible have an Old Testament segovius? It still counts.
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post #55 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Does your Bible have an Old Testament segovius? It still counts.

Actually it doesn't. The NT is quite clear that JC brought a New Covenant that replaces the old:

Quote:
Heb 8:6-9 (KJV):

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord...."

In that he saith, "A new covenant," he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #56 of 426
Merriam-Webster:
Quote:
Main Entry: ji·had
Variant(s): also je·had /ji-'häd, chiefly Brit -'had/
Function: noun
Etymology: Arabic jihAd
1 : a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty; also : a personal struggle in devotion to Islam especially involving spiritual discipline
2 : a crusade for a principle or belief

Cambridge International:
Quote:
Definition
jihad __[Show phonetics]
noun
1 [C or U] a holy war which is fought by Muslims against people who are a threat to the Islamic religion or who oppose its teachings

2 [C] a spiritual fight against the evil in yourself

Muttaqun Online Islamic Dictionary:
Quote:
Jihad: To fight and kill in the path of Allah, the enemies of Allah, for the cause of Allah. _It can also be used to mean to strive in the path of Allah.
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post #57 of 426
Like the signature iPoster, nothing like spreading a little more hate to make the world better.
post #58 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by iPoster
Merriam-Webster: Cambridge International: Muttaqun Online Islamic Dictionary:

This is plainly incorrect.

Arabic, as you may know, is a root language with no vowels. The vowels are inferred by context.

Accordingly, the roots generally relate to similar matters. That is to say, Jihad is spelled JHD and the vowels inferred. words in this family mean things along the lines of the following: struggle, labour, fatigue etc.

They are all spelled JHD and none of them mean war - war is not related to struggle, labour etc.

The Arabic for war is 'harb' - the HRB root. Words with this root (which interestingly does not occur in the Qur'an) are along the lines of fighting.

The word for holy war is harb-e-maqadas.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #59 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick1138
Like the signature iPoster, nothing like spreading a little more hate to make the world better.

Looks like we've got a live one in iPoster.

You can always tell where they got their quotes and what they believe. This is a cut and paste from:

Deception in the Church (that title is probably the only true statement on the site).

It's quite a classic actually - starting off like this:

Quote:
UNHOLY QUOTES FROM THE KORAN THAT PROMOTE TERRORISM

Warning: The following quotes are blasphemous. They are taken from the Koran (translated by N.J. Danwood). By reading these quotes you will have a basic understanding of the Muslim religion, the wars and tension in the Middle East, and the terrorism on September 11:

The ignorance and intolerance of this poisonous little number - which is unfortunately representative of a widespread and increasing attitude - is aptly demonstrated by the 'quotes' (none of which relate to terrorism as claimed) and some of which are manifestly incorrect - both theologically (in interpretation) and in translation.

Another laughable apology for information is the story below the 'terrorist quotes' at that link where the author displays an complete incomprehension of basic Arabic and his own religious tradition that is hysterical to anyone remotely familiar with the region and its cultures - Christian or Muslim.

The word 'Allah' is the Arabic word for God - it is not a proper name as (say) Jehovah. Even the Arab speaking Christians use it for God. Understandably since it is the Arabic word for God

How can people so intolerant and ignorant as the 'thinkers' who churn out this hate-literature not be totally discredited ? It's unbelievable - medieval even.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #60 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Does your Bible have an Old Testament segovius? It still counts.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Actually it doesn't. The NT is quite clear that JC brought a New Covenant that replaces the old:

Whoa, whoa... Hold the phone book. You mean the Bible contradicts itself?
post #61 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Whoa, whoa... Hold the phone book. You mean the Bible contradicts itself?

well, it's true. The whole point is that the of laws in the old testament, applies to jews, while christianity after Paul was open to gentiles (everyone), and so they did not have to follow the mosaic laws...

Interestingly enough, the more fundamental christians seem to prefer the old testament best...
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post #62 of 426
DHM

DHM

DHM
post #63 of 426
Why do the fundies support a war for the freedom and salvation of Muslims anyway?
post #64 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
Why do the fundies support a war for the freedom and salvation of Muslims anyway?

They don't.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #65 of 426
sorry seg, I was missin' a ''
post #66 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Looks like we've got a live one in iPoster.

You can always tell where they got their quotes and what they believe.

Hmmm, I probably got that from the site you mentioned; after a discussion in another thread about the Koran, I did a Google of 'Koran quotes', I would guess about 80% of the sites that came up held the same views.

Have I ever read the Koran? No, but I've never read all of the Bible either. (I'm an atheist if you must know) I have been to the Middle East on a number of occasions, and am intelligent enough to know that the majority of muslims are just like the majority of any other religious group. (peace-loving, just want to have a decent job and raise a family, etc.) But is seems like Islam is the one religion easily interpreted to be a violent, vengeful one. If that quote is misinterpreted, along with the many others along the same vein, what is the correct interpretation of it?

Basically, am I an ignorant racist who thinks all Muslims should be dragged behind a pickup or shot? Not at all, but I do think Islam, as it is presently interpreted by many, is a 'broken' religion...yes.

BTW, I would like to know what you think of this site? Not as biased as the other one mentioned.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #67 of 426
Quote:
No, but I've never read all of the Bible either.

You should read Kings and Chronicles. All of the major religions have their share of prejudice and hatreds - even the peace loving Buddhists - but it helps little to fan the flames higher than they already are.
post #68 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by iPoster
But is seems like Islam is the one religion easily interpreted to be a violent, vengeful one. If that quote is misinterpreted, along with the many others along the same vein, what is the correct interpretation of it?

Basically, am I an ignorant racist who thinks all Muslims should be dragged behind a pickup or shot? Not at all, but I do think Islam, as it is presently interpreted by many, is a 'broken' religion...yes.

BTW, I would like to know what you think of this site? Not as biased as the other one mentioned.

Well, firstly I should apologise for my earlier prejudging of you and assuming you had some agenda. So...apologies.

Re the first point: Islam can be portrayed as the negative things you say - and guess what, it's right-wing fundamentalist Christians who are doing it.
That is to say: they have an active campaign to spread negative (and false) propaganda.

Why should this be ? Why are they so intolerant ? Islam accepts Christianity and Judaism. You won't find such propaganda from the Islamic side - not against the religion itself.

So, no - Islam is not 'broken'. It is portrayed as that by people who have a mission to do so. That's not to say there aren't some 'nutters' in Islam or equivalents of the fundies but we are talking about the religious doctrine when we say Islam - otherwise we must say Muslims, and 'some' Muslims at that.

This second site is a bit better - still biased though but we can work with it

Firstly - we can discount Khomenei. Shi'i Islam is a schismatic sect that represents less than 5% (possibly a bit more) of Islam. It is heterodox and even within it Khomenei is more or less acknowledged as a deranged maniac - which he was.

Using him as 'evidence' for their argument is not only lame it shows a lack of other avenues of attack and little knowledge of what Islam actually is.

The quotes -let's take a few:

Quote:
There shall be no compulsion in religion.

This one blows their whole argument out of the water ! The first one !

Quote:
Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love the aggressors.

What's the problem with this ?

The 'kill them where you find them' lines following are out of context - they were addressed in a full-on war situation.

As to the quotes at the bottom from people claiming the Qur'an is a rehash of Hagarene texts - this is really a joke. It misses the point entirely - it is not a question of whether the Qur'an is from God or Muhammad, it is a work of art. It is never viewed in this way for 2 reasons:

1) the west cannot evaluate it as such because they do not use Arabic
2) the Muslims in general have played this down because of the legalistic aspects of the Qur'an which are (to them) more important.

But it revolves just the same - literary scholars are unanimous taht it is an epic poem and one of the world's masterpieces of poetic expression (content aside). Whoever wrote it was a literary genius and as such it is hardly likely to be a compendium of past pre-Islamic juridical texts.

This site is biased unfortunately, in fact, most of the people who create sites such as this are really non-thinkers rather than those who have an agenda (though they exist too unfortunately) - if they were scholars or wanted the truth of the matter they would have found all this out for themselves. But they don't care.

One more thing: 'unbelievers' in Arabic (and 'infidels' if you must) refer very specifically to people who do not believe in God. You would be classed as one for example.

The term does not, cannot and never has applied to people who hold a religious belief. The Qur'an is quite explicit that Jews and Christians (some of them - just like only some Muslims) will go to 'heaven'. Jews and Christians are believers. Unbelievers are atheists.

Similarly, idolaters are idol-worshippers of a specific kind - basically the Meccan cult of Muhammad's time.

I find it strange that it is the rabid fundie Xians who hate Islam so much (just like they hate gays and God knows what else) - Islam has always been accepting of Judaism and Christianity (in the sense it accepts them as TRUE), I need to say that again actually: Islam accepts Judaism and Christianity as true religions.

Muhammad learned all his religious teaching from Christians before his foundation of Islam at age 40. That's 20 years of hanging out and talking to Christian monks before he himself taught a thing.

Of course they were real Christians in that instance and unfortunately they would also be labeled as heretics or 'evil sinners' by the current crop, bit like Jesus himself really.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #69 of 426
Thread Starter 
Back on topic - looks ike the US are using cluster-bombs and nail-bombs again.

Oh and guess what ? Zarqawi isn't in Fallujah.

Sick

Raed

Riverbend
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #70 of 426
Foreign Terrorists Running Fallujah

I thought that was a nice summary of events leading up to Fallujah today.
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post #71 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
Foreign Terrorists Running Fallujah

I thought that was a nice summary of events leading up to Fallujah today.

It's pretty much right-on.

The only issue I'd have personally is with the 'thugs' angle. While undoubtedly there ARE a large number of thugs - Wahabis, Kuwaitis and Osama wannabees roaming around, I am wondering if the line that 'they are all thugs' is not a tad too Bushian.

Put it this way: in addition to the 'thugs' and foreign Jihadis - there MUST at some point also be a resistance by the ordinary Iraqis. To suggest otherwise is to believe they support the occupation or are too lame to attempt to do anything about it - neither are true.

Perhaps that resistance hasn't started - but personally I find that difficult to believe. I think it is there but does not distinguish otself from the 'thugs'. And it is not in the Bush admin's interest to make this distinction either.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #72 of 426
segovius-- I have started to read River's Blog. Do you know anything more about the author than is obvious on the page? I'm just curious about who she is.
post #73 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac on a Mac
segovius-- I have started to read River's Blog. Do you know anything more about the author than is obvious on the page? I'm just curious about who she is.

I don't know much about her other than what she occasionally says - basically that she used to be a computer programmer, lives in Baghdad and is about 25 etc....

Sorry, I'm not much help there.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #74 of 426
Thanks segovius. I will keep reading. Her accounts are eye opening.
post #75 of 426
18 dead and a 100 heavy wounded american soldiers so far... That's more than I had expected...

I'm not looking forward to the resistance and civilian numbers.
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post #76 of 426
In interviews on US television, Gen Myers said: "We hope that in the next few days we'll be able to return Falluja to the citizens there without the intimidation that the insurgents brought."

I love this. What are they supposed to return to????
post #77 of 426
The numbers of casualties got me thinking. With only about 130.000 troops in Iraq. And at the moment 200 wounded to 18 dead US soldiers in falluja the last three days. The insurgents have made quite an impact in the occupying force.
There are fresh soldiers replacing the ones who come home, no doubt.

But the If you go by a 100 to 10 wounded dead ratio. Then there are actually over a 1000 dead and 10.000 wounded US soldiers from iraq right now. This constitutes about 10% of the US force deployed.

If it's right, then this is quite a number actually... just food for thought.
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post #78 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by New
The numbers of casualties got me thinking. With only about 130.000 troops in Iraq. And at the moment 200 wounded to 18 dead US soldiers in falluja the last three days. The insurgents have made quite an impact in the occupying force.
There are fresh soldiers replacing the ones who come home, no doubt.

But the If you go by a 100 to 10 wounded dead ratio. Then there are actually over a 1000 dead and 10.000 wounded US soldiers from iraq right now. This constitutes about 10% of the US force deployed.

If it's right, then this is quite a number actually... just food for thought.

1% dead and 10% wounded are minuscule losses. Furthermore, half of the wounded return to action in 72 hours (DoD), so really only 5% is wounded in a remotely serious fashion. This in a period of over one and a half years, so dead and seriously wounded per year = about 4%. In the US, mortality rate in the general population is close to 1%. I'd say the US troops are very, very safe by any objective measurement.
post #79 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
1% dead and 10% wounded are minuscule losses. Furthermore, half of the wounded return to action in 72 hours (DoD), so really only 5% is wounded in a remotely serious fashion. This in a period of over one and a half years, so dead and seriously wounded per year = about 4%. In the US, mortality rate in the general population is close to 1%. I'd say the US troops are very, very safe by any objective measurement.

Not according to this article.

Quote:
Two aircraft carrying 102 injured soldiers arrived yesterday. Another 125 injured arrived earlier in the week and more were expected today.

Only seriously injured soldiers are evacuated from Iraq to Landstuhl, the biggest American military hospital outside the US.

"This is one of our peak periods," a hospital spokeswoman, Marie Shaw, told Reuters. "We are very busy. It is more than we have seen in the last couple of months because we used to admit about 30 patients a day."

So only seriously injured troops ever get taken to Landstuhl and the hospital normally (ie since operations began NOT since the escalation of the past few months) sees 30 casualties per day.

That's 800 plus per month SERIOUS (ie not the 'patch-em up and send -em back out' type) injuries before the current escalation which is evidently far worse because the spokeswoman claims they are 'very, very busy' as opposed to previously - that is: much, much busier than 800 very serious injuries that necessitate removal from the theatre per month.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #80 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
So only seriously injured troops ever get taken to Landstuhl and the hospital normally (ie since operations began NOT since the escalation of the past few months) sees 30 casualties per day.

That's 800 plus per month SERIOUS (ie not the 'patch-em up and send -em back out' type) injuries before the current escalation which is evidently far worse because the spokeswoman claims they are 'very, very busy' as opposed to previously - that is: much, much busier than 800 very serious injuries that necessitate removal from the theatre per month.

This doesn't invalidate the numbers I posted... just goes to show things are escalating fast right now. The heated-up situation clearly hasn't continued long enough to make a dent in the one-and-a-half year average.
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