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post #81 of 426
This is what I mean when I say I'd expect insurgents to be able to do much more damage per fighter:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/11/in...3e20d7f56307e1

The US troops know the precise building the fire is coming from. They have their own snipers in position. They bombard the building several hours and they do not manage to kill the sniper(s).

If the insurgents did this constantly in areas that are not active battlefields, the US troops wouldn't have that kind of alertness, fire support, medevac that they now have in an active battlefield like Falluja, so there would be basically no chance to catch the insurgents. The insurgents could switch position at will by blending into the civilians.
post #82 of 426
Here is a good article that covers the depth of the need for serious diplomatic, strategic and tactical work in Iraq.

It is thoughtful and well written . . . I was reading it and was impressed, then I saw who wrote it and was not surprised.

Clark on Fallujah and Iraq
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #83 of 426
And here is an interactive list of every dead US soldier.

Every one...

It's worth a minute of your time...

I'm having some problems with the flash in safari, but reloading the pages seems to fix things.
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post #84 of 426
For the worlds mightiest military, its not showing a great deal of mighty-ness in Iraq. It can't capture a city from people with snipers.

What a load of crap.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #85 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by New
And here is an interactive list of every dead US soldier.

Every one...

It's worth a minute of your time...

I'm having some problems with the flash in safari, but reloading the pages seems to fix things.

Thanks for that link. Theirs is a destiny that doesn't include happy-endings..
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #86 of 426
So we go through this exercise that gets a lot of people killed and from what I can make out almost nobody thinks it's really of any use.

Attack Fallujah, insurgents leave (or as the SCLM would have it, "slip away" AKA "walk out".

Leave Fallujah, insurgents return. Stay in Fallujah, get slowly ground down by snipers and bombs. Push Iraqi "security forces" to the front and watch them disappear/run away/get killed.

Meanwhile, continue to fuel Iraqi resentment at the American occupation. Kill more civilians. Prattle on about getting "the bad guys". And when it's all said and done, Iraq is not in the least more secure.

Same goes for the other hot spots starting to flare up. There just aren't enough troops to take and hold 3 or 4 or 5 Iraqi cities, and an ongoing massive city by city military occupation doesn't make any sense anyway.

And yet somehow this never gets mentioned in the press. It's all Bush talking points, about "flushing out the resistance" and "torture houses" and "foreign fighters" and "turning the corner" and "liberating the city" and "the coming elections".

As if something were being accomplished. As if things were being managed. As if this were a step on the way towards some goal, instead of just more thrashing in the quagmire. How many "pivotal moments" and "windows of opportunity" does this make now? After the invasion. After Saddam is caught. After electricity is restored. After the provisional government is set up. After schools are built. After the "dead enders" are rounded up. After Chemical Ali is caught. After sovereignty is handed over. After elections are scheduled. It will never end. At some point somebody will have to say "good enough" and we will depart in a haze of cliches and grotesque lies.

Hey, mom and dad, thanks for the life of your son. Didn't mean shit. He died for a slogan in the mouth of an opportunistic dumb-fuck.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #87 of 426
Falluja insurgents fighting to the end

Dum de dum. Unless the US kills every Iraqi, this isn't going to end. Another hot spot will flare up after this city. The US forces need to realize that they cannot put fear into the local populace and force them into submission. The citizens of Iraq are a proud lot.

Whatever happened to diplomacy and common sense?

Quote:
"Some of the bodies we found had been eaten by stray dogs and cats. It was a very painful sight."

Quote:
But a U.S. Marine commander, Colonel Mike Shupp, said he had not heard of any Iraqi civilians trapped inside.

"There is no need to bring supplies in because we have supplies of our own for the people. Now that the bridge is open, I will bring out casualties and all aid work can be done here," he said from Falluja's hospital.

Quote:
The Falluja offensive has fuelled violence across Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland, especially in the northern city of Mosul, where gunmen roam some districts following an uprising.

Insurgents overran a police station in Mosul on Sunday and U.S. troops, backed by Iraqi security forces, battled for two hours to retake it, the U.S. military said. At least four explosions shook the city on Monday, residents said.

The U.S. general in charge of security there, Brigadier General Carter Ham, said the situation was tense and he expected it to take some time to quell the insurgency.

There were also heavy clashes between U.S. troops and insurgents in Baquba, about 40 miles north of Baghdad on Monday, after militants attack several police stations.

U.S. helicopter gunships and tanks battled militants in Baiji, 125 miles north of Baghdad, on Sunday, and fighting continued in the town of Ramadi, to the west of Falluja, which has been a hotbed of insurgency for the past year.

\
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #88 of 426
Thread Starter 
More freedom brought to the evil scum by forces of good:

Quote:
Hussein moved from house to house " dodging gunfire " and reached the river.
_
"I decided to swim ... but I changed my mind after seeing U.S. helicopters firing on and killing people who tried to cross the river."
_
He watched horrified as a family of five was shot dead as they tried to cross. Then, he "helped bury a man by the river bank, with my own hands."
_
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #89 of 426
sadness
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #90 of 426
Thread Starter 
Pictures from Fallujah: what's the fucking point of all this madness ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #91 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
For the worlds mightiest military, its not showing a great deal of mighty-ness in Iraq. It can't capture a city from people with snipers.

What a load of crap.

Except that we lost 38 men to their 1200, and we took over an entire city inside a week's time.
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post #92 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Except that we lost 38 men to their 1200, and we took over an entire city inside a week's time.

Guess these numbers still somehow makes your proud... right?
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post #93 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Except that we lost 38 men to their 1200, and we took over an entire city inside a week's time.

Because the insurgents have relocated.

Gonna need to flatten some more cities and civilians soon.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #94 of 426
The focus on territory is just like wiping your nose to cure a flu.
post #95 of 426
What's the point you say? I have a better question: What should we be doing instead of fighting? Should we allow the city to remain under rebel control? After all, you could continue to use it as a political football.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #96 of 426
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
What's the point you say? I have a better question: What should we be doing instead of fighting? Should we allow the city to remain under rebel control? After all, you could continue to use it as a political football.

There's a question before that: why are there rebels present that can control anything ?

Or if you like: what are they rebelling against ?

And please don't say 'freedom'. I just couldn't take it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #97 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Pictures from Fallujah: what's the fucking point of all this madness ?

Quote:
It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it.

~Robert E. Lee
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #98 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
There's a question before that: why are there rebels present that can control anything ?

Or if you like: what are they rebelling against ?

And please don't say 'freedom'. I just couldn't take it.

But that question doesn't do anything to solve what problems there are. We are in Iraq whether you like it or not, and now we must do whatever it takes to win. If you ask me, it's about time we staged this kind of offensive. We can't just sit back and allow a terrorist insurgency to take hold.

Right or wrong, the situation is what it is. You can't just criticize US actions without offering some real alternative.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #99 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
What's the point you say? I have a better question: What should we be doing instead of fighting? Should we allow the city to remain under rebel control? After all, you could continue to use it as a political football.

I understand that was a rhetorical question but I can't help answering it.

Get out of the whole country at once. It's up to the Iraqis how they rule themselves. If they are not prepared to stand for what they believe in, there would be no democracy in US-occupied Iraq, no matter what the US did. OTOH, a lot of the fighting will die down with US gone, since a large part of the insurgence is a part of it simply to oppose the occupation. Any fighting that still goes on after that is for the control of Iraq, and that fight is simply unwinnable for a handful of foreign extremists in a relatively secular country like Iraq. Whether democratic or not, the new government would be Iraqi.

The path to Falluja is decades long and paved with blunders. The US has to publicly acknowledge that. That is the first in a series of many steps to prevent the same bullshit from happening again, and to convince at least Osama's secular collagues if not Osama himself to cease hostilities towards the US. Certainly their recruiting will get harder if the would-be recruits haven't heard of a US bombing or Israeli assassination that week, that month, that year...
The "world police" power trip has got to go. No more funding crackpot dictators and installing puppet governments. No more arms deals with anyone who is the aggressor in a recent or ongoing war, or is likely to use those weapons against their own civilian population.

What the US does not need to do is to fix what they broke in Iraq. Whatever "impartial help" the US government wished to provide, it would prove to be like a glue addict sent to an aerosol can factory for rehabilitative work. If history is any judge, the Iraqis are better off with US taking off and not coming back. If you still feel guilty after five years, there is probably some form of government in place in Iraq by then. Just send that government a pile of dollars, no strings attached, if you're honest about giving and not just looking for an excuse to throw some second-hand pork to US businesses.
post #100 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Except that we lost 38 men to their 1200, and we took over an entire city inside a week's time.

Except that the military was fighting against 'thugs' and 'insurgents' as you call them. They don't have any preperation, and the most advanced weapons they have are RPGs.

Try and fight against, oh say, China and we'll see how many men we lose and many they lose. When you call it the world mightiest military, you don't mean that the world is the US and Falluja only, do you?

There are a lot of armies out there in the world that can crush this resistance in Falluja in 2 days with 2-3 lost men. But we're the best and strongest and most clever and __ and __ and __ (you fill in the blanks).

Its a damn shame, that's all. Damn shame.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #101 of 426
Gotta love these internet armchair generals.
post #102 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Gotta love these internet armchair generals.


Yeah, they're a real Royal Pain in the Ass.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #103 of 426
Quote:
U.S. Marine Kills Wounded Iraqi
A U.S. Marine shot and killed a wounded and apparently unarmed Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in the former insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, according to dramatic pool television pictures broadcast Monday. A Marine spokesman in Washington said the shooting was under investigation.

post #104 of 426
What the fuck!!!

How much of this sort of thing is going on?!?!

This is very very very bad!!!

That Marine just shot down our 'good-will' forever in the eyes of the Muslim world!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #105 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
What the fuck!!!

How much of this sort of thing is going on?!?!

This is very very very bad!!!

That Marine just shot down our 'good-will' forever in the eyes of the Muslim world!

Believe me. It's been shot for a long time.
post #106 of 426
This is pathetic. I think we have to add someone to the axis of evil. This is no Christian nation.
post #107 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
What the fuck!!!

How much of this sort of thing is going on?!?!

This is very very very bad!!!

That Marine just shot down our 'good-will' forever in the eyes of the Muslim world!

Makes you wonder why de the US dead/wounded ratio is 200/40 while the insurgents is 1200/?

kill, kill, kill...
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #108 of 426
U.S., Iraqi Troops Begin Mosul Operations

Fallujah is old news. NEXT!
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #109 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
I have a better question: What should we be doing instead of fighting?

ahhh!
so, now the bitter reality of the situation is slowly beginning to sink in, eh? there aren't many options now.
before the invasion everyone who warned about this very exact situation was put off as being weak and what else ... remember powell: "you break it, you own it." well, that's what we got now, and the only options are "fight, fight, fight".
why do you think that all the people who opposed this war are so exasperated? because they knew that once you go in, the way the coalition of idiots did, your options tend to be reduced to "fight, fight, fight".
and then you and the other warmongers on this forum have the gall to demand that we come up with alternative plans.
Quote:
You can't just criticize US actions without offering some real alternative.

we had an alternative but you didn't want to listen. you got us into this mess, you fucked up. you had a chance on nov. 2 - but you fucked up that opportunity as well.
so now that your line-of-thinking has gotten us into this hell without alternatives, you tell us that we can't critisize the US without any alternatives?
if it weren't so sad, i would admit to the brilliance of your tactics. next thing you know, it will be "the arrogant liberal elite that got us into this mess".

hey, you should apply for a job in this administration, i hear there are some vacancies there ...

post #110 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Except that we lost 38 men to their 1200, and we took over an entire city inside a week's time.

Fallujah 2004, New York 2001. International terrrorism is alive and well, under the auspices of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney et al, who join the ranks of the most evil intentioned and despicable bunch of slimeballs to disgrace the human race.

I wish someone was able to conduct citizens' arrests upon these international outlaws, these icons of cowardice, deception, murder and mayhem. I wish every other nation in the rest of the world could be on the side of humanity, rather than appeasing these current masters of terror, and warn these people "do not ever ever visit here, or you will be summarily arrested, charged with war crimes and locked up". Its time the world did something en masse, and stopped these lunatics, who now represent the greatest threat to civilized values since their mentor in the 1930s in Europe.

The only appropriate places for Bush and his out-of-control band of butchers are prison cells, and for the rest of their lives. It is the only way that the United States can regain the degree of respect and standing that has now been lost to 90% of the rest of the world, and for many many reasons.

I hold little hope.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #111 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Gotta love these internet armchair generals.

Gotta love it too...especially coming from someone who appeases terrorists.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #112 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by bryan.fury
ahhh!
so, now the bitter reality of the situation is slowly beginning to sink in, eh? there aren't many options now.
before the invasion everyone who warned about this very exact situation was put off as being weak and what else ... remember powell: "you break it, you own it." well, that's what we got now, and the only options are "fight, fight, fight".
why do you think that all the people who opposed this war are so exasperated? because they knew that once you go in, the way the coalition of idiots did, your options tend to be reduced to "fight, fight, fight".
and then you and the other warmongers on this forum have the gall to demand that we come up with alternative plans.

we had an alternative but you didn't want to listen. you got us into this mess, you fucked up. you had a chance on nov. 2 - but you fucked up that opportunity as well.
so now that your line-of-thinking has gotten us into this hell without alternatives, you tell us that we can't critisize the US without any alternatives?
if it weren't so sad, i would admit to the brilliance of your tactics. next thing you know, it will be "the arrogant liberal elite that got us into this mess".

hey, you should apply for a job in this administration, i hear there are some vacancies there ...


Well said and thank you.
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post #113 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
That Marine just shot down our 'good-will' forever in the eyes of the Muslim world!

Did they show the footage of this on US television? Anybody who hasn't seen it should go watch it. In case you can't find it, I'll describe it for you.

The mosque is a semi ruin. Inside, rubble, fallen masonry and twisted metal litters the floor. Several figures are huddled against the wall. One is lying under a blanket in the middle of the floor near a pillar.

Clearly, they're all either injured or in bad shape. The Marines enter, shouting and hollering, high on adrenalin and testosterone. One approaches one of the figures slumped against the wall. He yells something at him. The person doesn't appear to move. Then the Marine takes aim, the barrel of his gun a mere 2 or 3 feet from the unmoving figure. They stopped the footage there on the nightly news but the soundtrack continues. A shot rings out.

I remember a not dissimilar incident from the Vietnam War but that guy could still stand up.

Now Margaret Hassan has been shot dead. For those of you who want to follow your warped interpretation of an eye for an eye, it looks like your wish is coming true.


And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself, what a wonderful world...........
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Tomorrow shall be love for the loveless;
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post #114 of 426
You forgot the part where the Marine shouts "He's faking dead" before he shoots the guy.

Was the guy laying there wounded? Was he laying there to ambush them? Who knows... give the situation a little time to become more clear.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #115 of 426
pleease...
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #116 of 426
Please what? Maintain a level head and not assume I know what happened, when it's certain nobody here does?

No thanks...
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #117 of 426
It's funny how you libs are all over the place. It wasn't long ago when you were all suggesting that the US take on N. Korea. Or even Iran.

You guys really can't pick a position can you?

Was it not your side that suggested a draft? Replacing volunteers with forced foot soldiers.

Wasn't it your side that continues to suggest that the world would be better off with SH and his criminal friends in power?

Wasn't it the libs that continually propped up the corrupt UN that may be ultimately responsible for letting this whole thing happen?

Isn't it the libs that praise and wish to reward France, Russia and Germany for cowardly acts like selling banned weapons to Iraq under the very sanctions that they put in place?

And now after all of the irresponsible and short sighted, if not treacherous decisions made by these countries and entities, you want to cry because negotiations that were never designed to work, didn't and now force is the only option.

I think it may be time to reevaluate your world view, the left's is failed and will certainly come back to bite us, IMO.
post #118 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
It's funny how you libs are all over the place. It wasn't long ago when you were all suggesting that the US take on N. Korea. Or even Iran.

You guys really can't pick a position can you?

Was it not your side that suggested a draft? Replacing volunteers with forced foot soldiers.

Wasn't it your side that continues to suggest that the world would be better off with SH and his criminal friends in power?

Wasn't it the libs that continually propped up the corrupt UN that may be ultimately responsible for letting this whole thing happen?

Isn't it the libs that praise and wish to reward France, Russia and Germany for cowardly acts like selling banned weapons to Iraq under the very sanctions that they put in place?

And now after all of the irresponsible and short sighted, if not treacherous decisions made by these countries and entities, you want to cry because negotiations that were never designed to work, didn't and now force is the only option.

I think it may be time to reevaluate your world view, the left's is failed and will certainly come back to bite us, IMO.

I hate to interupt this rant but you are TRULY full of shiit and absolutely, incomparably, miasmatically screwed up . . .

you are just saying whatever bullshiit crosses your mind . . . . what a buffoon!

*to mods: sorry folks . . ban away if need be
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #119 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
It's funny how you libs are all over the place. It wasn't long ago when you were all suggesting that the US take on N. Korea. Or even Iran.

You guys really can't pick a position can you?

Was it not your side that suggested a draft? Replacing volunteers with forced foot soldiers.

Wasn't it your side that continues to suggest that the world would be better off with SH and his criminal friends in power?

Wasn't it the libs that continually propped up the corrupt UN that may be ultimately responsible for letting this whole thing happen?

Isn't it the libs that praise and wish to reward France, Russia and Germany for cowardly acts like selling banned weapons to Iraq under the very sanctions that they put in place?

And now after all of the irresponsible and short sighted, if not treacherous decisions made by these countries and entities, you want to cry because negotiations that were never designed to work, didn't and now force is the only option.

I think it may be time to reevaluate your world view, the left's is failed and will certainly come back to bite us, IMO.

Drugs?

I have never heard anyone but the nutters on the right think that bombing Iran was a good idea.

Would the world be better off it Saddam (murderous piece of shit that he is) was still in power? Why, of course, yes. Only a delusionist would think otherwise.

Do the Iraqis consider themselves better off? Only the ones on Fox. They hate you, and it's America / Britain's fault.

The UN made this happen did it? Forced America to invade Iraq? Uh huh. I seem to remember the security council thinking invading Iraq was a fucking dreadful idea and giving you the finger. WE TOLD YOU SO.

And stop with the shrill-o-whine about Germany and France. This 'the left is failed' gubbins shows you've mistaken the life of the US for the life of the rest of the planet. We've just not got fundamentalists taking over all branches of the government and a staggeringly sucessful propaganda machine making believe that our friends are actually our enemies. So things look a bit different.

That includes Britain too, baby. When's Blair's gone things will be different because popular thought here is the same as over the channel.

These Euro-states are just as disfunctional as any rapacious capitalist state has ever been, America included. No more evil.

Just calm down.
meh
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meh
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post #120 of 426
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Drugs?

Nope.

Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
I have never heard anyone but the nutters on the right think that bombing Iran was a good idea.

To the contrary. It was said that in order for Bush's decision to be considered legitimate and consistent, he would then have to attack Iran and N. Korea. Have you forgotten these infamous arguments

Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Would the world be better off it Saddam (murderous piece of shit that he is) was still in power? Why, of course, yes. Only a delusionist would think otherwise.
Do the Iraqis consider themselves better off? Only the ones on Fox. They hate you, and it's America / Britain's fault.

Approx. 1400 people slaughtered each month for the last 30 years at the hand of SH would disagree with you. Thats the ones we know about. But I am sure you're right.

Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
The UN made this happen did it? Forced America to invade Iraq? Uh huh. I seem to remember the security council thinking invading Iraq was a fucking dreadful idea and giving you the finger. WE TOLD YOU SO.

Once again, your probably right. But this article would disagree with you.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/inte...?id=1320532004

The number keeps growing and growing as time goes bye.

The UN was not deterring Iraq in any way whatsoever.

And now the UN is refusing to cooperate in the investigation.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1405/5087715.html

HMMMM.....?

Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
And stop with the shrill-o-whine about Germany and France. This 'the left is failed' gubbins shows you've mistaken the life of the US for the life of the rest of the planet. We've just not got fundamentalists taking over all branches of the government and a staggeringly sucessful propaganda machine making believe that our friends are actually our enemies. So things look a bit different.

Well...

http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/12/iraq.equipment/
http://washingtontimes.com/national/...2637-6257r.htm
and...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Oct7.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,716376,00.html
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030...1256-6822r.htm

I could go on and on but that would be silly, you have invoked the "fundamentalist" label and therefore it must be true, and if I disagree, I must be one. Sooooo..... Moving along.

Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
That includes Britain too, baby. When's Blair's gone things will be different because popular thought here is the same as over the channel.

These Euro-states are just as disfunctional as any rapacious capitalist state has ever been, America included. No more evil.

Just calm down.

Heh?
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