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Prepping started for Iran war - Page 5

post #161 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I think we need to either jettison terms like 'evil' or clarify them. I would prefer to leave them out but if you insist....

Imo Bush is 'evil' as far as anything can be. Certainly I have seen more 'evil' in post Saddam Iraq than I have anywhere else.

I do not believe in evil - I do believe in mental illness, spiritual sickness and people who are dead inside. Imo Bush, Saddam and the Taleban leaders would all fall in the category.

It's subjective. You need to be very careful throwing terms like that around, or you should be - I know you are a fundie but let's keep this as a rational discussion.

First, I was using the term that Northgate used.

Second, please do not call me a "fundie"...if you would like to have rational, level-headed discussions with people it is counter-productive to use terms that are intended to insult and incite. Besides you don't know enough about me to "know that I am a 'fundie'". Give it a rest.
post #162 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
First, I was using the term that Northgate used.

Second, please do not call me a "fundie"...if you would like to have rational, level-headed discussions with people it is counter-productive to use terms that are intended to insult and incite. Besides you don't know enough about me to "know that I am a 'fundie'". Give it a rest.

Hehe

Quite an interesting reaction - is it the term you object to or the reality which the term signifies ?

As I have said before and I will have to re-iterate here again now: a term is needed to describe the grouping which exists under that nomenclature and which is very often discussed here

Personally, I don't care what term is used as long as we all know what it means and to what it refers. What I refuse to do is to have to clarify my meaning in one or two complete sentences ad nauseum. Why should I when I can use one word ad nauseum.

And more: it is descriptive - it is not intended to insult. I refuse to take responsibility for other's thin-skin and propensity to get offended (as something which is only in operation when they are apparently on the receiving end).

You are right. I do not know you. But I have observed your actions and drawn conclusions. By their fruits and all that....

Edit: better throw one of these in before I get in trouble...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #163 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Quite an interesting reaction - is it the term you object to or the reality which the term signifies ?

The term. And I don't entirely know what it signifies. It seems (to me) that it is intended to "paint a broad stroke" about bunch of people that you don't seem to know much about.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
And more: it is descriptive - it is not intended to insult.

The problem is, it really isn't very usefully descriptive. It is far to broad and stereotypical.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I refuse to take responsibility for other's thin-skin and propensity to get offended (as something which is only in operation when they are apparently on the receiving end).

I'm not being thin-skinned or offended. I was only making a suggestion that might help you to be viewed with a bit more credibility. Afterall, at least in my view, people that choose to revert to simplistic, stereotypical characterizations of others (as individuals or groups) don't have much credibility...for the simple fact that...well they seem to be prone to making stereotypical generalizations about people or groups (and possibly also events, ideas, etc.).

I personally, try to avoid this (making stereotypical generalizations about people or groups).

Yes, I have seen you (or someone here) make the argument about "well we need some label"...well I'm not talking about (or for) some abstract, ill-defined group of people. I am speaking about me...and about you...and we can try to speak as civil as possible to one another without reverting to vague, stereotypical generalizations about one another. We are (at least I am) able to speak to one another as individuals. If you choose not to, well, I guess that's life.
post #164 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
The term. And I don't entirely know what it signifies. It seems (to me) that it is intended to "paint a broad stroke" about bunch of people that you don't seem to know much about.

If you don't know what it signifies how do you know whether I know about it ?

I know enough - about you and them.

And you assume too much as ever, I grew up with 'fundies', I know many personally and have met probably the majority of those you could name. Am more than likely related to some you would choose.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #165 of 188
The issue isn't so much that the groups are ill-defined, we each know in the context of this place who the "wingers," progressives, liberals, neo-libs, neo-cons etc etc. are. In the broader context of the world out there beyond the .com, none of the same definitions apply...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #166 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
If you don't know what it signifies how do you know whether I know about it ?

I know enough - about you and them.

And you assume too much as ever, I grew up with 'fundies', I know many personally and have met probably the majority of those you could name. Am more than likely related to some you would choose.

Look, again, you really don't know much about me at all...nor me about you...and stop projecting your childhood experiences with "fundies" onto me.

Your arguments can be read, argued, disputed without such gratuitous language. But continue if you wish. It seems clear to intend to.
post #167 of 188
It actually seems that Chris is attempting to bring this place back from the brink...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #168 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Look, again, you really don't know much about me at all...nor me about you...and stop projecting your childhood experiences with "fundies" onto me.

Your arguments can be read, argued, disputed without such gratuitous language. But continue if you wish. It seems clear to intend to.


So who are you?

You posture here, you posture there, but you're careful not to tie anything down too much about your position.


By the way going after N. Korea without more provocation than we've gotten is nuts! There you would have a real war on your hands with a large army and WOMD that could reach our shores for real! I agree that we may have to deal with this eventually but it must be handled carefully ( as long as we aren't attcked first ) or we might see some U.S. history we'll really regret. Plus can we really afford another war? We're already up to our ears because of the Iraq debacle.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #169 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
It actually seems that Chris is attempting to bring this place back from the brink...

Or just playing games and pleading innocence and nobility. The art of deception, pretend you are not doing it. Nice.

I remember some dude called Benzene tried the same tactics not so long ago. Pretended to be all civilized, full of rational thought, no defined positions on the issues, pretending to listen to the arguments, but then he slipped up and the beans were spilled.

Related by any chance?
post #170 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Look, again, you really don't know much about me at all...nor me about you...and stop projecting your childhood experiences with "fundies" onto me.

Your arguments can be read, argued, disputed without such gratuitous language. But continue if you wish. It seems clear to intend to.

Whatever.

Post what you like but please have the respect not to engage me in discussion from this point onwards.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #171 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
Or just playing games and pleading innocence and nobility. The art of deception, pretend you are not doing it. Nice.

I remember some dude called Benzene tried the same tactics not so long ago. Pretended to be all civilized, full of rational thought, no defined positions on the issues, pretending to listen to the arguments, but then he slipped up and the beans were spilled.

Related by any chance?

Nope. Have no idea who that is. In fact...I am about the only one here dumb enough to use my real (full) name as opposed to some alias. Dumb, I say, because, in this day and age I have no idea who might try to hunt me down and harm me because of something I said on a message board...that they happen to disagree with.

I just stumbled into AO one day because I was bored.

Games? Whatever. MarcUK I think everyone can see your games quite clearly.

I haven't tried to deceive anyone about anything. I do have defined positions on some things...but am also wise enough...open enough to see if there are things that might cause those positions to change. It isn't necessary to reveal all my positions on all things...and, in some cases, I don't have defined positions...I'm trying to figure things out and make some decisions (if I really need to)...some things I don't really need to have any defined position about. I am comfortable enough with myself to be uncertain (even confused) about important issues. I don't pretend to know everything about them...or even a alot.

Finally, I'd have to say that there are a couple of "loud mouths"here that don't care to tolerate views other than their own...and don't do much to make such folks welcome by way of reasoned discussion.
post #172 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
So who are you?

You posture here, you posture there, but you're careful not to tie anything down too much about your position.

What do you want to know?
post #173 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Or...you could provide a counter-argument. But I guess we now know you're not interested in doing that.

Or...you could just bother to learn a little bit about a subject before forming an opinion. But I guess we now know you're not interested in doing that.
post #174 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Whatever.

Post what you like but please have the respect not to engage me in discussion from this point onwards.

Hey Chris, me too.

I don't think you're genuine, I want no further interaction with you either.
post #175 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
Hey Chris, me too.

I don't think you're genuine, I want no further interaction with you either.

post #176 of 188
The Iraq War was a mistake because it was not necessary (at the time). Had Bush waited until Saddam screwed up we would have had international support, and would not be knee-deep in debt and fatalities. Bush didn't even consult his father because he wanted to be his own man (an idiot), and decided to consult God instead. Well, either God lied to him or God isn't a very good General because this war has been a disaster on all fronts.

In the meantime, Iran built Nuclear Reactors with the aid of Bush's 'friend' Putin. Iran is the real problem. Bush could have found a way to replace the money Russia was getting from Iran and stopped the construction dead in its tracks.

Bush will go down in history as a complete failure, IMHO.
post #177 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
What do you want to know?


Something a little more definite. Are you someone else here? Are you middle aged or are you young like Common Man ( this is assuming he's telling the truth )? And yes age changes perspective and experiential parameters etc. so yes it makes a difference.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #178 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Something a little more definite. Are you someone else here?

Not sure what you mean? Am I masquerading as someone else? I am me. This is the only login account I have. This is my real name. No jokes. No smoke. No Mirrors.

Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Are you middle aged or are you young like Common Man ( this is assuming he's telling the truth )? And yes age changes perspective and experiential parameters etc. so yes it makes a difference.

No doubt that age makes quite a difference in perspective.

I am 36.
post #179 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
knee-deep in...fatalities

This is a statement that doesn't have much support when compared to historical American military conflicts.

Note, I don't necessarily disagree with some of the other things you've said...but to be fair, people focus a lot on the casualty numbers and don't compare these to other conflicts (which have had much greater fatality counts).

Surely things could escalate here. But, let's deal with the fact as they are now.
post #180 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
This is a statement that doesn't have much support when compared to historical American military conflicts.

Note, I don't necessarily disagree with some of the other things you've said...but to be fair, people focus a lot on the casualty numbers and don't compare these to other conflicts (which have had much greater fatality counts).

Surely things could escalate here. But, let's deal with the fact as they are now.

This is true compared to other wars as they were on-going. This one was supposed to be over, as Bush stated himself.
The problem is is that they didnt secure the borders and now there are so many armaments being used against our forces its as if the war just started all over again.
This war was a distraction from the war on terror, as Bin laden and his cohorts still havent been captured 4 years later.
post #181 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
This is true compared to other wars as they were on-going. This one was supposed to be over, as Bush stated himself.
The problem is is that they didnt secure the borders and now there are so many armaments being used against our forces its as if the war just started all over again.
This war was a distraction from the war on terror, as Bin laden and his cohorts still havent been captured 4 years later.

Agreed.
post #182 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I think we need to either jettison terms like 'evil' or clarify them. I would prefer to leave them out but if you insist....

Imo Bush is 'evil' as far as anything can be. Certainly I have seen more 'evil' in post Saddam Iraq than I have anywhere else.

I do not believe in evil - I do believe in mental illness, spiritual sickness and people who are dead inside. Imo Bush, Saddam and the Taleban leaders would all fall in the category.

It's subjective. You need to be very careful throwing terms like that around, or you should be - I know you are a fundie but let's keep this as a rational discussion.

I have this theory:

I really believe that when you look up at the sky on a clear beautiful day, the color that you see is different, per individual. Of course, from birth we are conditioned that the sky is blue and blood is red, so whatever color you see the sky as is called blue. However if I was connected to your brain and eyes, I may see the sky as my definition of green.

And since we all see the same colors different, we really should cede the use of colors to describe what we see. Don't get me wrong, I believe in black or shades of black, shadows, and highlights. But color, that's way too objective.
post #183 of 188
Naples, I've oftem wondered the same thing about colors as well,

I know youre talking allegorical, but in reality, I believe I found by a bit of thinking and research that we all actually see the same colors if undergoing brain transplants.

Have to go now, no time. Away for a week. Later.
post #184 of 188
We all see the same colors. Colors are related to specialised receptor in our retina : cones. We have three types of cones. Blue always stimulated only a particular kind of cones, whatever the species.

Everyone will say that blue is cold, yellow is warm and red is hot. I think it's encrypted in our DNA.
post #185 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
Draft what?

I don't understand the fear of a draft. It is not bodies that the military is in need of. There is no shortage, nor will there be. Even at the current casualty rate, it is no where near severe enough to even consider a draft as a possibility.

We already have a back door draft in effect. Join for four stay for six is the current policy. Soldiers who were out of the service are being re-enlisted aginst there will.
post #186 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
The premise of this thread is once again hypocritical:

I thought that to be consistent, Bush would have to take on Iran and Korea.

Looks like you are getting complete consistency from this admin if your conspiratorial theories are true.

What are you complaining about now?

Your right if this does turn out to happen the Bush Admin would be consistent....consistently wrong!
post #187 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I have this theory:

I really believe that when you look up at the sky on a clear beautiful day, the color that you see is different, per individual. Of course, from birth we are conditioned that the sky is blue and blood is red, so whatever color you see the sky as is called blue. However if I was connected to your brain and eyes, I may see the sky as my definition of green.

And since we all see the same colors different, we really should cede the use of colors to describe what we see. Don't get me wrong, I believe in black or shades of black, shadows, and highlights. But color, that's way too objective.

Um, and your point is what?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #188 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
Hey Chris, me too.

I don't think you're genuine, I want no further interaction with you either.

Some guys have all the luck...
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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