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Prepping started for Iran war - Page 2

post #41 of 188
11/18/04 at 2:28pm
Iran is a tough cookie. It doesn't look anything like the guerillas in Iraq, and has more than AK-47's and RPG's. I'd like to see Rummy, Condy, Georgi and Wolfovitwy, and lets not forget the architect of Iraqi war Cheney grab arms and go and fight and 'spread freedom'.

Especially the funny trio Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz. Those are the true heroes of todays world, and the true masters of the darkest corners of history.
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post #42 of 188
11/18/04 at 2:33pm
Check out this blog post from The Washington Monthly:
Quote:
You know, I'm more than willing to believe that a nuclear-armed Iran would be a very bad thing indeed. But take a look at what's been going on just in the past few weeks:

The Israelis have made it clear that they believe Iran is fast becoming an imminent threat that justifies preemptive attack.

There's a multinational effort underway to persuade Iran to stop enriching uranium. The Europeans think they've reached a solid agreement, but the United States remains skeptical.

An exile group is loudly claiming that the Iranians are lying and there's a secret enrichment facility the Europeans don't know about.

Liberal hawk Kenneth Pollack has a big new book out telling us how dangerous Iran is.

(The url above includes links to sources showing what's been going on.)
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post #43 of 188
11/18/04 at 2:38pm
The only reasonable thing to do from an iranian-regime-point-of-view would be to get those nuke pretty darn fast...
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post #44 of 188
11/18/04 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally posted by New
The only reasonable thing to do from an iranian-regime-point-of-view would be to get those nuke pretty darn fast...

...while maintaining public order:

http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/001327.html


Poor kid.

Does this kind of stuff earn the government the allegiance of the Iranian People?

Poor kid.

Aries 1B

PS: New, this post is not an attack. I'm just saddened by the murder of this kid.
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post #45 of 188
11/19/04 at 12:54am
Quote:
Originally posted by Aries 1B
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/001327.html

Hmmmm.... Very strange site, indeed. It was just registered in september under domains by proxy (to hide ID) and I don't see any indication of who's doing the site on the home page at all. Just scanning the page I see it borrows a story from Voice of America and has at least one pro-israeli, anti-semitism article.
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post #46 of 188
11/19/04 at 1:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Hmmmm.... Very strange site, indeed. It was just registered in september under domains by proxy (to hide ID) and I don't see any indication of who's doing the site on the home page at all. Just scanning the page I see it borrows a story from Voice of America and has at least one pro-israeli, anti-semitism article.

Looks like it's part of the program.

I shall dig into this a bit. Meanwhile, where did you find it and how Aries 1B ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #47 of 188
11/19/04 at 2:09am
Thread Starter 
Ok - the site is a partner of the Radio Network KRSI: Radio Sedaye.

If you click the link on the IranPress page you will go to the KRSI homepage and see the nice photo of Bush with the congratulations message ! Nice touch !

Actually this is a very clever site - it is designed to look like it is Iranian made, typically Iranian webwork in fact, But in reality KRSI broadcasts from Los Angeles.

But wait, there's more....

Quote:
With a touch of under-statement - "we are trying something a little out of the ordinary today" - one of America's most influential neo-conservative lobby groups this week started broadcasting a live radio chat-show out of its Washington headquarters and into Iran, featuring interviews with opposition activists in both countries.

The teaming-up of the well-funded and well-connected American Enterprise Institute (AEI) with Los Angeles-based Radio Sedaye Iran (Voice of Iran) marks a new step in the efforts of the US right to influence regime change in the Islamic republic.

Exactly the same MO as they used in Iraq. 'Influential ex-pats' who are essentially Americans touted as 'pro-democracy' opposition (think Chalabi) and a constant drip-drip of misleading and false propaganda.

Who can doubt this is prepping now ?

Financial Times article from whence quote above derives
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #48 of 188
11/19/04 at 2:28am
Just to make things clear:

Stuff like this happens in iran. The iranian regime is certainly not my favourite. These things happen in many muslim countries.

- And many christian.

But your site is not an independent source. Try Amnesty. I bet they have a whole section on iran.

Regarding the war. It's not happening. Not right now anyway. If elections in iraq free up some US forces. - Then the situation is different.
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post #49 of 188
11/19/04 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Ok - the site is a partner of the Radio Network KRSI: Radio Sedaye.

If you click the link on the IranPress page you will go to the KRSI homepage and see the nice photo of Bush with the congratulations message ! Nice touch !

Actually this is a very clever site - it is designed to look like it is Iranian made, typically Iranian webwork in fact, But in reality KRSI broadcasts from Los Angeles.

But wait, there's more....
Quote:
With a touch of under-statement - "we are trying something a little out of the ordinary today" - one of America's most influential neo-conservative lobby groups this week started broadcasting a live radio chat-show out of its Washington headquarters and into Iran, featuring interviews with opposition activists in both countries.

The teaming-up of the well-funded and well-connected American Enterprise Institute (AEI) with Los Angeles-based Radio Sedaye Iran (Voice of Iran) marks a new step in the efforts of the US right to influence regime change in the Islamic republic.

Exactly the same MO as they used in Iraq. 'Influential ex-pats' who are essentially Americans touted as 'pro-democracy' opposition (think Chalabi) and a constant drip-drip of misleading and false propaganda.

Who can doubt this is prepping now ?

Financial Times article from whence quote above derives

Thanks, that's exactly what I figured. AEI backed propaganda. You are absolutely right that it's the same MO.
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post #50 of 188
11/19/04 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Looks like it's part of the program.

I shall dig into this a bit. Meanwhile, where did you find it and how Aries 1B ?

Honestly, I don't remember. That page struck me as 'less than spontaneous' as well. Sad story about the boy, though. That story, if true, if representative of conditions in Iran and if a source of outrage to Iranians in the Street (which would tell about their value system - of which I know nothing about), tells me that Regime Change in Iran could, perhaps, be brought about from Within. With Discrete Assistance.

If, if, and if...

Aries 1B
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post #51 of 188
11/19/04 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Aries 1B
Honestly, I don't remember. That page struck me as 'less than spontaneous' as well. Sad story about the boy, though. That story, if true, if representative of conditions in Iran and if a source of outrage to Iranians in the Street (which would tell about their value system - of which I know nothing about), tells me that Regime Change in Iran could, perhaps, be brought about from Within. With Discrete Assistance.

If, if, and if...

Aries 1B

I could name five nations right now with way worse human rights abuses than Iran. Community level human rights violations are in no way a reason to invade Iran, rather than say Pakistan, India, Indonesia, China, North Korea, and any number of African nations, who all have a far worse, well documented history of human rights abuse, both at the community and government level. Using human rights as an excuse to invade Iran (or Iraq, for that matter) is hiding the true motivation for action.

By the way, Afghanistan is producing more opium than ever in the country's history. The war on drugs has apparently been abandoned by the very conservatives that launched it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em? When do we start "terrorist attacks" that kill innocent civilians? Oh, yeah, we already do that, too!

Way to get those foreigners on our side, George!

My dick is far better at gaining moral high ground than the neocons are. And they talk about values?
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post #52 of 188
11/19/04 at 9:38pm
The US doesn't have the troops to go into Iran. They have to show (and actually have) success in Iraq before moving on. That, unfortuneatly IMHO will not happen very soon. Now if they can hand over Iraq and the troops are in the region already, then its time to start worrying big time.
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post #53 of 188
11/19/04 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
The US doesn't have the troops to go into Iran. They have to show (and actually have) success in Iraq before moving on. That, unfortuneatly IMHO will not happen very soon. Now if they can hand over Iraq and the troops are in the region already, then its time to start worrying big time.

I hate to say it, but there's another option: the US can turn Iraq into a giant military base.
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post #54 of 188
11/19/04 at 10:00pm
The US has plenty of troops to go into Iran. They're already stationed on either side of it. As we've seen it doesn't take many men on the ground to waste a country. It just takes a shitload to not ruin it. We apppear to be rather understaffed for that sort of mission.
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post #55 of 188
11/19/04 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Aries 1B
That story, if true, if representative...

You need to reevaluate what you think you know if you are getting info from deceptive AEI-backed propaganda efforts.

I look forward to never, ever, ever hearing any BS about the 'liberal media' from you again, seeing as though you have no honest interest in critically assessing your information sources.
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post #56 of 188
11/19/04 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
As we've seen it doesn't take many men on the ground to waste a country.

a country, but not any country.
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post #57 of 188
11/19/04 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
The US has plenty of troops to go into Iran. They're already stationed on either side of it. As we've seen it doesn't take many men on the ground to waste a country. It just takes a shitload to not ruin it. We apppear to be rather understaffed for that sort of mission.

Bingo. Ding ding ding.

Iraq is not about Iraq. Afghanistan is not about Afghanistan. They are about the entirety of the ME, world peace, communication, stability, peak oil...and Iran is the next step.
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post #58 of 188
11/19/04 at 11:37pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
a country, but not any country.

Well that's specifically when I said "a" and not "any"
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I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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post #59 of 188
11/20/04 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
You need to reevaluate what you think you know if you are getting info from deceptive AEI-backed propaganda efforts.

I look forward to never, ever, ever hearing any BS about the 'liberal media' from you again, seeing as though you have no honest interest in critically assessing your information sources.

Life's full of disappointment: Kerry on the junkheap, CBS/NYTimes credibility in tatters, and I'm going to continue to post whatever The Guidelines allow.



Aries 1B
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post #60 of 188
11/20/04 at 11:11pm
You're proud of being openly dishonest and hypocritical.

It never ceases to amaze me how die-hard bush supporters have completely abandoned logic and honesty. It's actually really scary, and in many ways that go far beyond Iran.
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post #61 of 188
11/21/04 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
It never ceases to amaze me how die-hard bush supporters have completely abandoned logic and honesty.

In all honesty, and this will last for the rest of my life, it ceased to amaze me on November 3, 2004. I will never again underestimate the stupidity.
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post #62 of 188
11/21/04 at 11:20am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story...356189,00.html

I particularly surprised by the willingness of Powell to issue official statements based on nothing once again...
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #63 of 188
11/21/04 at 11:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by New
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story...356189,00.html

I particularly surprised by the willingness of Powell to issue official statements based on nothing once again...

It's a sign it's moving quickly - very quickly.

They had hoped to get Iran on the nuclear issue over time with a slow build-up to prep the mind of the public but the EU/Iran deal blew it out of the water.

They need to go soon.

Note all this 'evidence' is all from the last few days but the EU deal specifically agreed that it would come into effect MONDAY - they aren't even giving it a chance.

You'd think they'd be glad - but no - they WANT all out war.

Military action being reviewed

Bush steps up Iran rhetoric

And if that isn't enough Bush is also giving the macho John Wayne routine to the North Koreans.

Something will go off soon. And it won't just be the morons who voted for this that have to pay the price of the insanity.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #64 of 188
11/21/04 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
In all honesty, and this will last for the rest of my life, it ceased to amaze me on November 3, 2004. I will never again underestimate the stupidity.

Calling the people you disagree with stupid is a major reason the Democrats lost on November 4th.

As for the topic, I haven't been follow this too closely, and Canadian media aren't hyping Iran as much as the U.S. media is (by what I see in this thread, anyway.)

But I remain unconvinced that the U.S. is seriously looking at fighting a war on two major fronts at the same time. Even those who haven't served in the military are aware of those dangers, and I really don't see that Bush has the political room to push another war through.
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post #65 of 188
11/21/04 at 11:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Calling the people you disagree with stupid is a major reason the Democrats lost on November 4th.

Bullshit. Total, 100% bullshit. Republicans first made Asshole Radio mainstream in the US, then moved the tactic to the internet, the most well-known example being Free Republic.

The simple cold, hard fact is that the republican victim act, like the fantasy of republican fiscal responsibility, is nothing but an overt lie.
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post #66 of 188
11/22/04 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
We got a time frame now: within six months.

And more from Sunday's Guardian:

Quote:
Pentagon hawks have begun discussing military action against Iran to neutralise its nuclear weapons threat, including possible strikes on leadership, political and security targets.

.

Bring em on....
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #67 of 188
11/22/04 at 9:02am
What if Russia backs Iran along with other nations that get their oil supply from it? Will we go in for all out war? What if one of those missiles hit American soil?
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post #68 of 188
11/22/04 at 9:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by talksense101
What if Russia backs Iran along with other nations that get their oil supply from it? Will we go in for all out war? What if one of those missiles hit American soil?

The threat of Russia or China backing Iran is a very real one.

Also, the US will be going it alone in any event. There's no way they can get a coalition together - only Toady will want to go along but even he won't be able to persuade the UK public and his own party this time.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #69 of 188
11/22/04 at 7:03pm
However they figure out how to do it Iran must not be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons.
A country whose Congress chants 'Death to America' is a target for our military.
Unlike Iraq, Iran is a legitimate target.
I would hope for covert action, but action is necessary.
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post #70 of 188
11/22/04 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
The US doesn't have the troops to go into Iran. They have to show (and actually have) success in Iraq before moving on. That, unfortuneatly IMHO will not happen very soon. Now if they can hand over Iraq and the troops are in the region already, then its time to start worrying big time.

We have plenty of troops wasting time and money in Europe and Asia. Personally Id rather see them on our borders stopping illegal aliens, but there are enough to do the job if need be.

Its Bush's fault that he allowed it to get this far. His buddy Putin helped Iran build their nuclear reactors. Now Putin says he's also concerned about Irans nuclear intentions. A brilliant statesman.
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post #71 of 188
11/23/04 at 12:47am
Thread Starter 
Stop threatening people and they won't feel they need protection.

Bush is heading for his Waterloo and unfortunately he's taking America with him.

As ever they will be the ones who have to pick up the tab - and this one will be a bank-breaker.

Can't stop it now, The people have spoken.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #72 of 188
11/23/04 at 1:48am
Thread Starter 
For those of the 'US cannot fight on two fronts' school of denial - Check this out - looks like the hawks are pushing for massive troop reductions in Iraq:

Quote:
Those arguing for immediate troop reductions include key Pentagon advisers, prominent neoconservatives, and some of the fiercest supporters of the Iraq invasion among Washington's policy elite.

Gee- I can't imagine why the warheads would want that - I mean what will they do with all those troops ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #73 of 188
11/23/04 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Its Bush's fault that he allowed it to get this far. His buddy Putin helped Iran build their nuclear reactors. Now Putin says he's also concerned about Irans nuclear intentions. A brilliant statesman.

While your sentiments about Bush are surprising, don't forget that America sold Saddam WMD precusor chemicals, and then got concerned with him later. If Putin's stupid, then there must have been stupid defence secretaries in the 80s.

Rumsfeld: a brilliant statesman.
meh
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post #74 of 188
11/23/04 at 1:56am
Thread Starter 
What politicians actually say doesn't mean that much. I think they used to call it diplomacy.

Putin is under pressure to sing with the choir but he is also re-invigorating the Russian nuclear programme and he is no fool whatever else you think of him. Iran is no threat to him but Bush could be.

I don't think he's going to sit back and let the US ***-up the region even more. That's one of the reasons why Russia is selling more Sunburn missiles to Iran.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #75 of 188
11/23/04 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
While your sentiments about Bush are surprising, don't forget that America sold Saddam WMD precusor chemicals, and then got concerned with him later. If Putin's stupid, then there must have been stupid defence secretaries in the 80s.

Rumsfeld: a brilliant statesman.

You wont see me defending our policies. We make stupid mistakes piled upon stupid mistakes.
However, Iran is a real threat. There are plenty of folks there who want the religious leaders out of office, but we cant wait until that happens. Iran actively supports terrorists and any country whose Govmnt chants 'Death to America' must be dealt with. I wish israel would be the one to do it, but if they dont, we need to act.
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post #76 of 188
11/23/04 at 11:51pm
Here we go. Here we go.

I remember all this rhetoric before the Iraq war; people hyping up the threat and resting the entire civilized world's future on one state and one 'weapons progamme.'

I didn't think you lot would fall for it again but you are.

One prediction: this time, not even Britain will back this fucking ludicrous endeavour. Israel will have a pop with those US bunker busters and the world will be less safer as it is now Iraq is a terrorist haven.
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post #77 of 188
11/24/04 at 12:37am
What about this scenario: Iraq holds elections ( 'Iraq, a democracy now, is an ally in the WOT' ), Iraq beefs up its army... U.S. & Iraq invade Iran... thoughts?
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post #78 of 188
11/24/04 at 12:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
What about this scenario: Iraq holds elections ( 'Iraq, a democracy now, is an ally in the WOT' ), Iraq beefs up its army... U.S. & Iraq invade Iran... thoughts?



Have you ever heard the name "Sistani" ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #79 of 188
11/24/04 at 1:17am
Clue me in...
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post #80 of 188
11/24/04 at 1:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
Clue me in...

Sistani is the 'big cheese' in Iraq - he is undoubtedly a man of peace and he has almost total control of the majority Shi'i there. In terms of that they revere him and would do whatever he says.

Up till now he has been saying work with the Americans or at the very least, don't oppose them. And that is why the insurgency is as small as it is. Sadr tried to be a rebel and the US couldn't sort him out but Sistani neutralised him in one meeting.

So far he hasn't spoken on Fallujah and he hasn't condemned the Americans. Yet. That's why the insurgents consists of minority Sunni fighters, a few stray Shi'i on occasion, ex-Ba'athists and a lot of foreign Jihadis. The majority Shi'i are obeying Sistani's calls for peace.

Just as a ballpark figure, Sistani's followers number about 7.5 million in Iraq. That's 7.5 million currently obeying his implicit orders to support/not oppose the occupation. He has massive support in Iran too as this is his powerbase.

I'm not sure if he would order a Jihad if the US attacked Iran, no-one really knows. But if he did.......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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