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Prepping started for Iran war - Page 3

post #81 of 188
Very interesting... and scary.

By the way, Segovius, where are you in the creationism thread? I really want to hear your take on it.
post #82 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Very interesting... and scary.

By the way, Segovius, where are you in the creationism thread? I really want to hear your take on it.

umm, is there a creationism thread ? I must have missed it - is it in AO ?
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post #83 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
umm, is there a creationism thread ? I must have missed it - is it in AO ?

Yes. It's called "common descent ancestor found" or something like that.
post #84 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Yes. It's called "common descent ancestor found" or something like that.

Cheers, I'll head over there and check it out.
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post #85 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
What about this scenario: Iraq holds elections ( 'Iraq, a democracy now, is an ally in the WOT' ), Iraq beefs up its army... U.S. & Iraq invade Iran... thoughts?

The iraqis have been through enough

What I would like to see is the Arab league rise up and speak out against Irans nuclear intentions. I cant imagine that they are happy to have this happen.
post #86 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
The iraqis have been through enough

What I would like to see is the Arab league rise up and speak out against Irans nuclear intentions. I cant imagine that they are happy to have this happen.

The arab leaders or the arab people?

I believe the arab people are perfectly happy with Iran getting the bomb. Seeing Israel has a whole arsenal aimed at them...
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post #87 of 188
Thread Starter 
Iranians are Persians.

And what New said.
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post #88 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Iranians are Persians.

And what New said.

The word Iran predates the word Persia.

And what New said.
post #89 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
The word Iran predates the word Persia.

And what New said.

And they're not Arabs.

And what Hassan said.
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post #90 of 188
Oops.

What you said the first time.
post #91 of 188
says who?
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post #92 of 188
i havent read all the comments but I can tell you that a war with Iran is just not gonna happen.

I've been there many times and know the country pretty well. Not like a native, but its nowhere near as "easy" as Iraq.

Iran is like mixing the mountains of Afganistan and some parts of deserts of Iraq. Mix in some very motivated soldiers who have a LOT of weapons (not like the pathetic US invasion of Iraq in 2002 against an army that had been 10 years depleated and just not even a half effort.

Iran has lots of tanks, lots of fighters, long range missle systems, millions of soldiers, millions of reservists, para-military, etc.

They do not have the religious problems of Iraq. They are basically all Shiite muslim so, pretty stable. There are some tribal things, but hardly enough to pit one group against another in case of a foreign invasion.

Overall, Iranians are a very proud people who love their country despite all the crap the religious authorities fling at them. Yes, they have issues about capital punishment, torture, and just general ass backwards laws (seen from our point of view), but despite that, as I said before, I dont think you'll get a popular uprising against the religious authorities if the US were to invade.

When I was there, Persians were publicly hating the USA (because they have to) but when you go to a market or just meet common people, they hope you're an american and want to talk, discuss, and they have this thing about wanting to be pen pals. Heh.

Lets not forget that Persia was the most westernized nation outside of Europe for a while. The problem was that the Shah westernized too quickly and upset a lot of people and eventually the extremists took over and the rest is history. The current president, and the former, were/are quite moderate.

Generally the iranian government does not like the religious authorities becaus ethey interfere with everything and are just way too extremist for a lot of things. Unfortunately, they are necessary in order to keep the nation together and not have another extremist revolution like that lunatic Khomeni.

Aaaaanyway... to make a long thing short, the US of A better think 5 times before doing something as dumb as that.
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post #93 of 188
also just wanted to add:

associating Al-Q with Iran is a shot in the dark. Granted, Bush and Cronies managed to somewhat brainwash the American public to invade Iraq on bullshit proof, but it just wouldnt work with Iran.

In general, and most middle eastern countries have figured this one out since a while, its NOT A GOOD THING to harbor and/or encourage terrorist groups in your country.

Why? Because these groups tend to bite you in the arse and topple you down. This happened plenty of times in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, etc.

Saddam Hussein and anyone else would be CRAZY to harbor terrorist groups unless they were their own special operations groups that were created, controlled, and maintained by their respective armies. This is what we generally call "Special Operations" or things like "CIA" in our country. Every country has their own.

But to actually harbor Al-Q in Iran? Knowingly? Thats just pure folly.
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post #94 of 188
Thread Starter 
Well said Zo - one thing though: your argument that a war isn't going to happen seems to hinge on the fact that it would be insane. Which is true.

But that leads to the premise that the Bush admin is not insane enough to do it.

I think that's where the doubt lies.
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post #95 of 188
Ok, I'm just thinking out loud here. I have no proof, nor anything in substance to back this up.

But what if the neo-cons' idea is to recreate Persia?

Wasn't it the British that divided Iran and Iraq? It's an artificial line, drawn through a people that think and worship similarly (well the Shia anyway?)

Is it actually possible to combine the two (should Iran's government somehow fall) and sell it to their people as the new mid-east superpower?

Again, I'm just thinking out loud here. Don't be too cruel.
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post #96 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Iranians are Persians.

And what New said.

I know Iranians arent Arabs, thats why i would think the Arab league could say something without appearing to go against one of their own.

I bet that Arab countries are more concerned about Iran having the bomb than israel. When Israel destroyed Osarik in Iraq they were quite grateful.
post #97 of 188
So let me get this straight, Iran with Nuclear weapons doesnt bother any of you and we would be stupid to go to war with them to prevent that, but not stupid to sit back and allow them to get nuclear weapons?

Talk about a head in the sand mentality.
post #98 of 188
It doesn't bother me any more than Israel with nuclear weapons, supplied by the US.
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post #99 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
It doesn't bother me any more than Israel with nuclear weapons, supplied by the US.

They built their own.

And Im not sure how you can say it doesnt bother you. I find that pretty lame.
post #100 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
It doesn't bother me any more than Israel with nuclear weapons, supplied by the US.

For a country that has been under attack most of it's life, Israel has shown surprising maturity and extreme patience with their ownership of nuclear weapons.

Even with what sometimes seem like daily incursions by terrorists into civilian areas, there is no real public support for a "nuke 'em all" solution virtually anywhere in Israeli society.

Iran, on the other hand, is controlled by nutbars who perform death chants against their political enemies inside their government chambers.

If they get a nuke, they will use it.
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post #101 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
For a country that has been under attack most of it's life, Israel has shown surprising maturity and extreme patience with their ownership of nuclear weapons.

Even with what sometimes seem like daily incursions by terrorists into civilian areas, there is no real public support for a "nuke 'em all" solution virtually anywhere in Israeli society.

Iran, on the other hand, is controlled by nutbars who perform death chants against their political enemies inside their government chambers.

If they get a nuke, they will use it.

Exactly. And they will give them to terrorists who will make a smart bomb. Putin should have known that the Chechens will most likely be a buyer. Yet he stupidly helped Iran build reactors.

A nuclear Iran is a danger to the entire world.
post #102 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
They built their own.

And Im not sure how you can say it doesnt bother you. I find that pretty lame.

Dream on, buddy. They built their own...


So is Iran. What is the problem then?
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post #103 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
For a country that has been under attack most of it's life, Israel has shown surprising maturity and extreme patience with their ownership of nuclear weapons.

Even with what sometimes seem like daily incursions by terrorists into civilian areas, there is no real public support for a "nuke 'em all" solution virtually anywhere in Israeli society.

Iran, on the other hand, is controlled by nutbars who perform death chants against their political enemies inside their government chambers.

If they get a nuke, they will use it.

Its pretty surprising to see a country 'constantly' attacked to be holding others territories.

A country constantly in attack doesn't occupy territories and perform genocide on them. A country that is attacking, however, does.

Iran has never used nukes either. And never says they would. So, double standards ayyyy?
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post #104 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666

A nuclear Iran is a danger to the entire world.

change this to: 'A nuclear Iraq is a danger to the entire world' and you come close to Bush's speeches. Hell even the monkey-face Dicky.

You've started quoting Bush now?
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post #105 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Dream on, buddy. They built their own...


So is Iran. What is the problem then?

Pakistan built nukes also. Who helped them? It can be done without outside help. Find me proof that the US helped Israel with their program.

The problem is that Iran is run by terrorist supporting thugs who chant 'Death to America' . I consider that a problem.
post #106 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Its pretty surprising to see a country 'constantly' attacked to be holding others territories.

A country constantly in attack doesn't occupy territories and perform genocide on them. A country that is attacking, however, does.

Iran has never used nukes either. And never says they would. So, double standards ayyyy?

Genocide? Hardly. Your bias is showing.
Israel has been attacked many times by Arabs. Look it up.
Iran has never used nukes because they never had them. If you trust Iran's word over Israel's you'd be in the minority. The Arabs arent afraid of Israel, they were always more afraid of Saddam. Iran is no friendly neighbor, if Israel destroyed their reactors they would most likely cheer (internally of course, dont want to upset the fanatics).
post #107 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Pakistan built nukes also. Who helped them? It can be done without outside help. Find me proof that the US helped Israel with their program.

france gave israel their nuclear program.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimona ...
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post #108 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by New
france gave israel their nuclear program.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimona ...

France used to pick their allies alot better than they do now.
post #109 of 188
Not really. What's changed is that people in America hear a lot of distortion about France, all the time. France is getting the same kind of treatment as Iraq and Iran do, only watered down a bit.

I mean, consider this. Iraq is all about democracy, right? Because democracies are good, and if Iraq was one then America would like them and so would the whole world.

Well, France is a democracy. But there seems to be reason to hate (yes, hate) France. And do you imagine that an Iraqi democracy that represented the wishes of a people who now hate America would be more or less favourable to America then France?
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post #110 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Not really. What's changed is that people in America hear a lot of distortion about France, all the time. France is getting the same kind of treatment as Iraq and Iran do, only watered down a bit.

I mean, consider this. Iraq is all about democracy, right? Because democracies are good, and if Iraq was one then America would like them and so would the whole world.

Well, France is a democracy. But there seems to be reason to hate (yes, hate) France. And do you imagine that an Iraqi democracy that represented the wishes of a people who now hate America would be more or less favourable to America then France?

It isn't about democracy - that's just a lie for the sheep, some of whom do still believe in the concept.

Your point about France proves that.

There are further confirmers from the other side of the coin as it were, where quasi-fascist undemocratic states are high on the 'friendly and good' nations list. Saudi would be one - Pakistan and Indonesia another.
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post #111 of 188
Quote:
Iran actively supports terrorists and any country whose Govmnt chants 'Death to America' must be dealt with.

OK Mr. Freedom of Speech!

Wow. Just wow. Duuuh?

As for the Two Fronts thing, well, that has ALWAYS been an American priority: being able to fight a war on two fronts. Afghanistan doesn't count anymore because we don't give a shit about it. We already bombed it. Check. Iraq: already bombed: check. Just needs a few troops. Time for Iran. I see it coming. What will happen to Iraq you say? I think terrorists will plan a massive surprise attack on the few troops we leave in Iraq and it will be a bloodbath. A terrible horror. I also think there will be a dirty nuclear bomb attack in the US in the next 4 years. It wouldn't surprise me. I'm glad I'm not living in NYC. And to think, those poor bastards didn't even vote for Bush.

Bush is definitely heading to Waterloo. Hmm didn't he take history and learn about supply lines, and all those other military thingies? I think he's streeetching a bit already.

Man it has to suck to be in the Army right now. And to think I once wanted to do ROTC. The second Bush was in, I was like...haha, no.

Hey steve666 are you ready to join up and die for us just because Iran chants smack about us? yea that's what I thought.

And yes as for the human rights thing...well, there are whole continents that are worse, like Africa, South America, most of Asia...

edit: disclaimer: I don't support Iran's government. Yes they harbor terrorists. They helped Al Quaeda pass through borders.

Does this mean we should invade Iran? No. Diplomacy? Yes.

It's called MAD people. They know if they attacked us with a nuclear bomb, they would become I think as Bush I put it "a glass park." The US does not hesitate to use nuclear weapons when they are necessary and I support this. Stamping out terrorism is important and MAD and our willingness to use nukes is part of the "big stick" we carry while speaking softly. I think we should start watching Iran much closer, and hey, maybe use some intelligence from the CIA and other organizations, although under Porter Goss who knows what their deal is. Multilateral talks would be a good idea too. And I think we should increase our naval and air presence in the region to a large degree.

But then again, I'm an arm chair general. I'd say leave the thinking to experienced leaders, like say, Colin Powell. \
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post #112 of 188
>Hey steve666 are you ready to join up and die for us just because Iran chants smack about us? yea that's what I thought.

And yes as for the human rights thing...well, there are whole continents that are worse, like Africa, South America, most of Asia...

edit: disclaimer: I don't support Iran's government. Yes they harbor terrorists. They helped Al Quaeda pass through borders.

Does this mean we should invade Iran? No. Diplomacy? Yes.

It's called MAD people. They know if they attacked us with a nuclear bomb, they would become I think as Bush I put it "a glass park." The US does not hesitate to use nuclear weapons when they are necessary and I support this. Stamping out terrorism is important and MAD and our willingness to use nukes is part of the "big stick" we carry while speaking softly. I think we should start watching Iran much closer, and hey, maybe use some intelligence from the CIA and other organizations, although under Porter Goss who knows what their deal is. Multilateral talks would be a good idea too. And I think we should increase our naval and air presence in the region to a large degree.

But then again, I'm an arm chair general. I'd say leave the thinking to experienced leaders, like say, Colin Powell<

Ok, let me get this straight because it appears you contradicted yourself a few times there. You do think Iran is supporting terrorists that want us dead, but you dont think we should do something about it.
You say those in charge are loons, but you want us to use diplomacy.

Sorry, but thats just not realistic. If they are a danger to us, and I think you agree that they are, they must be dealt with.
I am no fan of Bush, I cant stand the guy. I actually voted for Gore and Kerry. Iraq was a mistake, the real danger is Iran. If things can be worked out satusfactorily without military action that would be great, but it isnt going to happen.

The Europeans are trying to get an agreement with Iran without physical verification. How the hell is that supposed to work, by taking their word for it? Sorry, we cant allow Iran to get nukes. Whatever it takes must be done.
post #113 of 188
Thread Starter 
Iran launches military exercises on Iraq border

Officials say the exercises are the biggest ever conducted and are specifically to prepare for a possible invasion by the US.

Quote:
The exercise included missiles, rockets, armored personnel carriers, main battle tanks and unmanned aerial vehicles developed over the last decade. Officials said many of these weapons and platforms were introduced into service over the last two years.

Officials said the exercise included 10 infantry divisions as well as artillery, missile and electronic warfare units. They said the air force was providing support for ground units as part of a demonstration of the interoperability between the services.
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post #114 of 188
Thread Starter 
Bullshit update: Dec 04

Yep, it's the 45-minute claim redux

People were stupid enough to buy it last time so why change the formula:

Quote:
The latest generation of missile technology currently being engineered by Iranian scientists will be able to reach the continental United States, former Israeli ambassador to the U.N. Dore Gold said Saturday.

Good one ! But wait, it gets better.....

Quote:
Gold called Iran's capacity to launch a nuclear attack on most of the Western world a "global problem [for] which European governments, the United States and Israel have to come up with a solution."

You can't even call it insulting someone's intelligence because the sheep that swallow this crap haven't got any - they've defined a whole new genre....

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post #115 of 188
Gold is one of the more unsympathetic people I've come across...
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post #116 of 188
In the future most countries will have acess to nuke technology. I don't see how you can stop that. It was complicated in 1950, it's not that difficult in 2004.
post #117 of 188
you know, when Israelis stark talking about nukes, its like pedofiles saying 'yelling at kids is an abuse!'

they did this in iraq, they're doing it in iran. lets see where the 'funny' wheel of death spins last.
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post #118 of 188
Iran cant be allowed to get nukes, period.
Whatever it takes
post #119 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Whatever it takes

Never an acceptable answer. That's the answer for those people too stupid to come up with a peaceful solution.
post #120 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Never an acceptable answer. That's the answer for those people too stupid to come up with a peaceful solution.

There is no peaceful solution with a country that doesnt want peace. A country that pays money to terrorists to kill as many innocents as possible.

You and your ilk are appeasers.

Death to Iran
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