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Human common descent ancestor discovered - Page 10

post #361 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
from the NIV

"So make yourself an ark of cypress [c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. [d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish [e] the ark to within 18 inches [f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks."

????????????????? great plan!

Tell me, were Kangaroos on the ark?


What, I am supposing that you expected blueprints in the bible? The ancient hebrews were scholars, not draftsmen. Assuming God did give detailed instructions to Noah, why bother recording all the minutie? As it is, the bible account is the most specific of all the flood accounts. Most just say "a boat" or "a raft", although I do believe one says "a cube."

Also, you are forgetting that Noah was already very old when he was told to build the ark. Do you have any idea how much knowledge one could amass if the lived to, say, even 200 years? As it is now, we barely get an education, squeeze in maybe twenty-thirty years of work, and then we either go senile or die. Noah was a very smart guy.
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post #362 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by benzene
What, I am supposing that you expected blueprints in the bible? The ancient hebrews were scholars, not draftsmen. Assuming God did give detailed instructions to Noah, why bother recording all the minutie? As it is, the bible account is the most specific of all the flood accounts. Most just say "a boat" or "a raft", although I do believe one says "a cube."

well, actually, I was just wondering why Frank claims I hadn't read the Biblical instructions for the ark. Gee it took me about 20 seconds to read it.

Quote:

Also, you are forgetting that Noah was already very old when he was told to build the ark. Do you have any idea how much knowledge one could amass if the lived to, say, even 200 years? As it is now, we barely get an education, squeeze in maybe twenty-thirty years of work, and then we either go senile or die. Noah was a very smart guy.

Oh yeah, a guy built the ark just before his 600'th Birthday, I wonder if he based the structure on him zimmer frame? or coffin?
post #363 of 411
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #364 of 411
Thread Starter 
post #365 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by benzene
Good point. Especially in a society where we tend to regard the ancients as rather quaint and simplistic, it is very hard to attribute to them the sort of accuracy we would like. However, if the Bible really is something more than just a book of ancient texts, it should be reflected in it's accuracy in areas we can test.

Big if - this is selective argument. The whole discussion here centres around the fact that the Bible is NOT something more than a book of ancient texts. Not since the Church started getting creative with it anyway.

This reminds me of another point: why did the Church have the unbelievable arrogance to actually co-opt the sacred texts of another religion and sequester them for their own ends. The NT just wasn't enough - not that it existed at the beginning of the Xian religion - maybe that's why.

The Old Testament is Judaic - it is not Christian, leave it alone !

Quote:
You beat me to it. Actually, I believe that God protected the writings that best told the story, and then handed them to the Israelites, who, if you look back into history, were fanatical about keeping the documents unchanged and protected.

Which is why the Jewish OT is different from the Xian.

Which is why the contemporary documents we have found last century - from Nag Hammadi to the Dead Sea Scrolls paint a hugely different picture.

Either God didn't do such a good job 'entrusting' or else there is something of the human, all too human here. I wonder which it could be ?

Quote:
Good idea. Check the bible out. See if the civilizations that the bible mentioned actually existed. Check out this country of "Ur" that Abraham is supposed to have come from. Stuff like that.

One more time: All this proves is that the original writer was familiar with those historical issues and was perhaps a contemporary It does not prove anything about God

Quote:
What I did, after I reached the conclusion that there had to be a Designer, based upon what I saw in nature, was to go and read all of the major holy books of different religions, like the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, the Bible, etc.
Maybe it was my western bias, but only the Bible told a concise, and where it could be tested, completely accurate story.
I think many Christians, actually, treat God like an inscrutable "divine force". I tend to look at it; "If God wanted to tell the history of the world, how would he do it?".

Well, He sure as hell wouldn't come up with a bunch of contradictory texts, separate them in time of writing by up to 3000 years, divide them across to opposing religions and dump the whole lot in the hands of the psychopathic torturers and murderers of the Catholic Church with a blank cheque to do with them as they wished.

Quote:
Yes, many of them actually. I just read an article by a microbiologist who believes that God made the world work according to certain physical laws, that basically predestined it for evental concious life. I completely disagree with him on the scientific principles of his argument, but his belief is a pretty common one these days.
Heck, I would like to be a naturalist some days. Without God, we're basically intellegent animals. Why bother explaining God at all? I mean, if there is no divine personality to be accountable to, you can do whatever you want, right?

I'm speechless.....


Quote:
No, not really. From where I am, I just look at the fundamental problems that science has trying to fit a naturalistic model into the constrainments of fact. (arguments like the thermodynamics of abiogenesis, irreducible complexity, the absense of macroevolution, etc.) However, if you have an axiom that a Designer made these objects, you are then obligated (at least I was) to do a little research into who this Designer might be.

Good plan, not so sure about the execution....

Quote:
A note to everybody bickering about the euphrates, and the other rivers.
Someone said that a flood as big as the one stated in the bible would (most likely) destroy any existing topography around which these rivers might have existed. (As well as destroying the garden of eden). Absolutely right.
What makes more sense is that as the earth was repopulated after the flood, the same (or similar) names would have been given to major rivers. Especially if the new river reminded the settlers of the old, pre-flood one. A similar analogy would be the tradition of naming cities in America after cities from the country of origin. I grew up just outside of "New London", as a matter of fact.

So the handful of people on the ark had knowledge of all the ancient names of the whole world right ?

Come to think of it, with a storm that big and the wind force required during 40 days it is highly unlikely that a boat could start in the middle east and still be in the middle east when the storm abated.

This suggests more a smaller localised flood and I believe this is the opinion of most scholars today.

Quote:
As for the Ark not holding enough animals, this is a very old argument, one big enough that it's had several books written about it. First, here's a synopsis of one, but the best I have found would be John Woodmorappe's "Noah's Ark: a feasibility study".
Segovius (incorrectly) states that the bible says five of each animal were taken on the ark. Only five of every "clean" animal were taken, i.e. those considered edible. This would (presumably) allow for a faster regeneration of basic herbivores like sheep, cattle, etc.

Genesis 6:19-20: "And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring TWO of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female._ 20Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive."

Genesis 7:2-3): "You shall take with you of every clean animal by SEVENS, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; 3also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth."

And that doesn't count the food supply. Hey, maybe that's what happened to the Dinosaurs....Shem got bored and started....uhh....never mind....
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #366 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Genesis 7:2-3): "You shall take with you of every clean animal by SEVENS, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; 3also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth."

And that doesn't count the food supply. Hey, maybe that's what happened to the Dinosaurs....Shem got bored and started....uhh....never mind....

I just realized that it's 2 'unclean' animals (1 Male/1 Female) and 14 'clean' animals (7 Male/7 Female).

Crazy! It's like someone just made up an allegorical story and was picking numbers out of the air to pad it out.

Why would they want 7 male and 7 female of a 'clean' species of animal? Was there some knowledge of natural selection and that a bigger gene pool was better? Was Noah an unwitting pawn in Darwins theories?

"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #367 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
I just realized that it's 2 'unclean' animals (1 Male/1 Female) and 14 'clean' animals (7 Male/7 Female).

Crazy! It's like someone just made up an allegorical story and was picking numbers out of the air to pad it out.

Why would they want 7 male and 7 female of a 'clean' species of animal? Was there some knowledge of natural selection and that a bigger gene pool was better? Was Noah an unwitting pawn in Darwins theories?


The clean and unclean beasts are listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, I don't know if thats and exhaustive list? Seg?
No Kangaroos there. I wonder why?
post #368 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
I just realized that it's 2 'unclean' animals (1 Male/1 Female) and 14 'clean' animals (7 Male/7 Female).

Crazy! It's like someone just made up an allegorical story and was picking numbers out of the air to pad it out.

Why would they want 7 male and 7 female of a 'clean' species of animal? Was there some knowledge of natural selection and that a bigger gene pool was better? Was Noah an unwitting pawn in Darwins theories?


Yes, but it's worse than that (for the fundies) this is evidence that the book of Genesis was written by two people.

There is an excellent study on this (the whole Bible actually) by Robin Lane Fox called 'The Unauthorised Version'.

Basically he proves that there was a pre-existing Genesis myth that a later redactor took and amalgamated into a developed and articulated story. The second writer left bits of the first's work in place though - perhaps because he was aware of the 'sacred' nature of the text and its subject matter.

Hence the first Genesis quote is by the later writer and mentions ONLY 2 pairs, perhaps he thought that seven was too ridiculous even then.

He also makes other amendments earlier such as the order of the days of creation and the two contradictory creation stories are clearly by different people - even the textual style in the original is quite different.

You can analyse style and vocabulary by word-count (Shakespeare has a vocab of 30,000 words for example) or by usage of certain word patterns and there seems little doubt that Genesis was written by two differing authors.

And that's before the Church started tampering with it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #369 of 411
Thread Starter 
"The fantastic stories about these men living over nine hundred years and not getting around to fathering their children until they had lived a century or two, are the result of an ancient mistranslation of the original numbers. Except for Noah, each young man fathered his first son during his late teens or early twenties, just as young men do today, and they lived into their seventies or early eighties. Noah lived to be 83 years old and Methuselah lived to be 85. The river flood of 2900 BC occurred when Noah was 48 years old and he had been king for ten years.

Nearly all modern translations of Genesis are derived from the Masoretic (Hebrew) Text, because it is generally the most reliable. But there are also two other versions of Genesis: the Samaritan (in an early Hebrew script) and the Septuagint (a Greek translation of an early Hebrew text). The Septuagint numbers were closer to the original numbers, because when scholars translated the Hebrew Pentateuch (which includes Genesis) into Greek at Alexandria, Egypt about 280 BC, they used a Hebrew text that was edited in the 5th and 4th centuries BC. This text was centuries older than the proto-Masoretic Text selected as the official text by the Masoretes after 70 CE, a text that was already corrupted by scribes trying to correct what they thought were errors".
post #370 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
---quotes---

Exactly.

Btw, have you seen this ?.

Apparently SAT test questions are focussing on Creationism now.

Quote:
Students attending school in districts that have phased out the teaching of evolution will no longer be forced to answer SAT questions about the controversial theory. Instead, they'll answer questions about the six days in which God created the earth and the great flood that took place 4,300 years ago.

Very worrying.

I think the guy in the comments section said it best:

"The end is coming my friends, operate as a unit and stay together."
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #371 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK


Actually, this is the first post Marc's ever made that I have found to be really, truly, funny.
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post #372 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Exactly.

Btw, have you seen this ?.

Apparently SAT test questions are focussing on Creationism now.

I absolutely refuse to believe this story is true. First, no science class teaches creationism rather than evolution. That would be unconstitutional. Second, I just don't believe they'd change the SAT to ask questions about the Bible. I just don't believe it.

[edit] err, I believe that's a parody site.
post #373 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I absolutely refuse to believe this story is true. First, no science class teaches creationism rather than evolution. That would be unconstitutional. Second, I just don't believe they'd change the SAT to ask questions about the Bible. I just don't believe it.

Actually, they don't ask knowledge questions at all on the SAT (except perhaps vocab and math)...
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #374 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Exactly.

Btw, have you seen this ?.


You're just trying to give me a hernia? "Hello, morons, it is obviously a joke"

Very fucking sad if True, but I guess it means Europe will become the dominant nation if America continues it's decline into a theocracy.

Anyway, its time to get ready to do some "Sexual Selection" of my own, of the entirely 'natural law kind' (NaplesX), so I must go now. "Hello Bitches, here I come.."
post #375 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Actually, this is the first post Marc's ever made that I have found to be really, truly, funny.

You shouldn't laugh at a joke a "tool of Satan" has made...
post #376 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
And that's before the Church started tampering with it.


You seem convinced that the Bible has been tampered with. Could you provide some documentation on this?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #377 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Exactly.

Btw, have you seen this ?.

Apparently SAT test questions are focussing on Creationism now.

That can not be true. I agree with a good number of the posters at that site that that has to be satire/joke.
post #378 of 411
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #379 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
You seem convinced that the Bible has been tampered with. Could you provide some documentation on this?

prepare to be shredded to hell.
post #380 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
prepare to be shredded to hell.


I doubt it, the Church is fairly self-conscious about these sorts of things.

(unless we're talking about material from a Dan Brown novel)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #381 of 411
This should be fun...
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #382 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I doubt it, the Church is fairly self-conscious about these sorts of things.

(unless we're talking about material from a Dan Brown novel)

So they hide the evidence?

For over 1400 years (1900 really) the church held dominance on literacy. Who the fuck knows what the new testament said in 600 AD versus 1000 AD?
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #383 of 411
Not too long ago a certain church was hiding that a lot of priests had been very bad boys with the young boys. The church can be good at hiding things.

Sorry couldn't resist the easy smear. I agree this has nothing to do with evoultion or who is wrong or right about how we got here.
post #384 of 411
Thread Starter 
According to a literal interpretation of Genesis with the number errors corrected, Genesis actually happened about 400 years before Jesus was supposed to hit the scene. Mmmmm...

I wonder Fundies, why do you accept the NIV, KJV etc. bibles? For all your hatred of Catholics, the Bible is a Catholic book, created by Catholics, voted for by Catholics, perverted by Catholics and propogated by Catholic brutality.

quote
"[Protestantism] Hence, besides having its own symbols or standards of public doctrine, it retained all the articles of the ancient creeds and a large amount of disciplinary and ritual tradition, and rejected only those doctrines and ceremonies for which no clear warrant was found in the Bible and which seemed to contradict its letter or spirit."

I would have thought that you should start rejecting the Catholic Celebrations of Christmas (Sol Invicta - pagan origins 25th December worship, birthday of the invincible sun), as there is no Biblical reference to it. Your Christmas trees, come from a Northern European Pagan tradition of bringing trees inside and decorating them, as a reminder that the sun will be 'born' again on dec25th and new life will start again next spring. Biblical reference Not to do it!!!

Easter (Babylonian origin Ishtar - sun goddess born from a huge 'Easter' egg - Easter weekend date is calculated from pure astrology!) no biblical reference to it.

QUOTE : "Matthew 17
The Transfiguration
1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus."

This is reference to the sun being at it's highest point at the summer Equinox (june21). Just like Jesus, the sun reached it's most powerful position, and from here on out, both the Sun and in the Jesus story, power starts to decline, as the days grow shorter than the nights, and Jesus starts to get into trouble in Jerusalem.

so we have 3 points of our cross, each corresponding to the solar equinox, all we need now is the last one, the Autumn Equixon sep21 - pretty much harvest time, which is of epic significance to ancient civilizations whose existance, survival and trade is based on agriculture. This is the time when the sun passes very close to the star 'Spica' of the constellation Virgo (a virgin woman holding an ear of wheat in her hand) and then the sun passes into Libra (scales of justice). So what is Jesus doing....overthrowing the markets (scales) and merchandisers in the temple, cursing a fig tree, figuratively leaves falling from trees in Autumn before settling down to a nice feast with his disciples.
post #385 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
According to a literal interpretation of Genesis with the number errors corrected, Genesis actually happened about 400 years before Jesus was supposed to hit the scene. Mmmmm...

I wonder Fundies, why do you accept the NIV, KJV etc. bibles? For all your hatred of Catholics, the Bible is a Catholic book, created by Catholics, voted for by Catholics, perverted by Catholics and propogated by Catholic brutality.

quote
"Protestantism, however, by no means despises or rejects church authority as such, but only subordinates it to, and measures its value by, the Bible, and believes in a progressive interpretation of the Bible through the expanding and deepening consciousness of Christendom. Hence, besides having its own symbols or standards of public doctrine, it retained all the articles of the ancient creeds and a large amount of disciplinary and ritual tradition, and rejected only those doctrines and ceremonies for which no clear warrant was found in the Bible and which seemed to contradict its letter or spirit."

Using the bible as a science book is a pure nonsense. This apply in particular with the genesis. There is no need to loose your time with people who have the faith in the scientifical value of the bible.
The funny thing, is that you wrote that some creationists accept the catholic bible and are creationist. Strange if we consider that the creationist theory is not backed by the catholic church.
I am curious to know what Lemaitre (Priest and physic nobel prize) would have said about the creationist thing.

Now, imagine that god made a book who represant is opinions and his morale. How would he manage to make this book simple enough to be understand by simple minds like us humans. Don't you think that he should be in phasis with the current level of understanding of things we have now. D'ont you think, that he will employ as much possible metaphors in order to let us touch abstract thing ?
Don't you think that he will avoid at any cost any scientifical references, because such references are subject to evolution, and thus are doomed to change?
post #386 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
You seem convinced that the Bible has been tampered with. Could you provide some documentation on this?

Definitely.

New Thread
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #387 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Using the bible as a science book is a pure nonsense. This apply in particular with the genesis. There is no need to loose your time with people who have the faith in the scientifical value of the bible.
The funny thing, is that you wrote that some creationists accept the catholic bible and are creationist. Strange if we consider that the creationist theory is not backed by the catholic church.
I am curious to know what Lemaitre (Priest and physic nobel prize) would have said about the creationist thing.

Now, imagine that god made a book who represant is opinions and his morale. How would he manage to make this book simple enough to be understand by simple minds like us humans. Don't you think that he should be in phasis with the current level of understanding of things we have now. D'ont you think, that he will employ as much possible metaphors in order to let us touch abstract thing ?
Don't you think that he will avoid at any cost any scientifical references, because such references are subject to evolution, and thus are doomed to change?

Certain ones cannot change - I would expect God to have mentioned that the earth was a sphere for example and that it was not the centre of the solar system.

These things seem very basic factors in a creation story if it is a true record.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #388 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Certain ones cannot change - I would expect God to have mentioned that the earth was a sphere for example and that it was not the centre of the solar system.

These things seem very basic factors in a creation story if it is a true record.


Causing the "the sun to stand still" is not a statement that the sun revolves around the Earth on a planetary scale.


More contrivance.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #389 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
According to a literal interpretation of Genesis with the number errors corrected, Genesis actually happened about 400 years before Jesus was supposed to hit the scene. Mmmmm...

I wonder Fundies, why do you accept the NIV, KJV etc. bibles? For all your hatred of Catholics, the Bible is a Catholic book, created by Catholics, voted for by Catholics, perverted by Catholics and propogated by Catholic brutality.

quote
"[Protestantism] Hence, besides having its own symbols or standards of public doctrine, it retained all the articles of the ancient creeds and a large amount of disciplinary and ritual tradition, and rejected only those doctrines and ceremonies for which no clear warrant was found in the Bible and which seemed to contradict its letter or spirit."

I would have thought that you should start rejecting the Catholic Celebrations of Christmas (Sol Invicta - pagan origins 25th December worship, birthday of the invincible sun), as there is no Biblical reference to it. Your Christmas trees, come from a Northern European Pagan tradition of bringing trees inside and decorating them, as a reminder that the sun will be 'born' again on dec25th and new life will start again next spring. Biblical reference Not to do it!!!

Easter (Babylonian origin Ishtar - sun goddess born from a huge 'Easter' egg - Easter weekend date is calculated from pure astrology!) no biblical reference to it.

QUOTE : "Matthew 17
The Transfiguration
1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus."

This is reference to the sun being at it's highest point at the summer Equinox (june21). Just like Jesus, the sun reached it's most powerful position, and from here on out, both the Sun and in the Jesus story, power starts to decline, as the days grow shorter than the nights, and Jesus starts to get into trouble in Jerusalem.

so we have 3 points of our cross, each corresponding to the solar equinox, all we need now is the last one, the Autumn Equixon sep21 - pretty much harvest time, which is of epic significance to ancient civilizations whose existance, survival and trade is based on agriculture. This is the time when the sun passes very close to the star 'Spica' of the constellation Virgo (a virgin woman holding an ear of wheat in her hand) and then the sun passes into Libra (scales of justice). So what is Jesus doing....overthrowing the markets (scales) and merchandisers in the temple, cursing a fig tree, figuratively leaves falling from trees in Autumn before settling down to a nice feast with his disciples.


Agian, I disagree. I don't think you are making sense here.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #390 of 411
I was just checking out one of the little propganda booklets (the comics) and remembered how important the persecution complex is to you guys. It's really genius propaganda since it gives you a narrative to retreat to after making totally logically incoherent arguments.
post #391 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Agian, I disagree. I don't think you are making sense here.

How can you disagree If you can't make sense of what i wrote?

Infact, you perfectly understand what I meant, and it makes perfect sense, but you want to keep your head in the sand and plead stupidity. Carry on...

Shall I tell you why Jesus begins his ministry at 30? Shall I tell you why Jesus went to John and got baptised?, shall I tell you why Satan tempts Jesus, shall I tell you why John is put in prison and Jesus not worry? Shall I tell you why Jesus visits Simon and Peter the fishermen? Shall I explain why Jesus is the lamb of God who takes the sin from the world? Shall I tell you why Jesus calms the storm? Shall I tell you why John gets beheaded and rises from the dead? Shall I tell you how it is possible for Jesus to walk on water? Shall I tell you how Jesus rode a foal and ass? Shall I tell you why Judas has to kiss Jesus to identify the most popular man in the area, but no one can pick him out?

Shall I, or will it all go right over your head?
post #392 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
I was just checking out one of the little propganda booklets (the comics) and remembered how important the persecution complex is to you guys. It's really genius propaganda since it gives you a narrative to retreat to after making totally logically incoherent arguments.

Which ones ?

I remember reading those 'Chick' comics when I was a kid - one of them ('This was your life' I think) gave me nightmares for years.

Really powerful stuff - specially the lake of fire that the guy gets chucked into by the angel for looking at the woman.

Eegeh...I'm still shuddering.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #393 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Certain ones cannot change - I would expect God to have mentioned that the earth was a sphere for example and that it was not the centre of the solar system.

These things seem very basic factors in a creation story if it is a true record.

My demonstration was : even if the bible is god own words, this words canno't discribe the world in a scientifical way.

Now Segovius you are free to doubt that the Bible is god own words. I would never contradict you on that subject ...
post #394 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Which ones ?



Really powerful stuff - specially the lake of fire that the guy gets chucked into by the angel for looking at the woman.

Eegeh...I'm still shuddering.....

Damn, that woman was pretty hot, for sure
post #395 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Damn, that woman was pretty hot, for sure

Yeah, I sometimes wonder if impure thoughts count if the babe in question is in a Christian propagandist tract - could I argue a 'honey-trap' defence if they try to chuck me in that fiery lake ?

Not that they would of course or that it would matter - fire being a purely material element which will doubtless have little effect against the etheric material of the disembodied soul
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #396 of 411
Thread Starter 
You have pictures of this chick?
post #397 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Which ones ?

I remember reading those 'Chick' comics when I was a kid ...

Big Daddy

It's one of the typical chick stories where the fundie kid has to go up against the evil teacher and jeering class. It's all part of their mythology that helps them justify beliefs that they know are unjustifiable.
post #398 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
You have pictures of this chick?

OMG - found it on the 'internets'

The trauma is all coming back - I got to go and lie down. I may need medication....Powerdoc ?



Nooooooooooo
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #399 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
OMG - found it on the 'internets'

The trauma is all coming back - I got to go and lie down. I may need medication....
Powerdoc ?



Nooooooooooo

A good alcohool will do the trick

Thanks for your link.

Interesting brainwashing. You are sleeping in the church and therefore you are damned to eternal fire. What a lovely lord.
post #400 of 411
Thread Starter 
Powerdoc, you may want to revoke those pictures of 'Chester and give yourself up for Christ?
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