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Pizza Hut denies man's right to carry a weapon! - Page 3

post #81 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
That's not true on several levels, but this much should be enough: People who choose a career of a violent criminal are not exactly the most reasonable ones around. Do you trust them not to do something stupid? Do you trust them not to decide, in the midst of robbing you, that you are a witness and that's a problem?

It's hard not to notice that the framing here-- that I must either "trust" a criminal or be prepared to match him in firepower-- is exactly what has been used to justify the war in Iraq.

Something about the reactionary mindset, or is this some kind of right wing conventional wisdom that Bush drew from?

At any rate, I don't expect some adrenaline buzzed kid to be rational. That's why I wouldn't expect him to react like I might hope if a produced a gun.

You are "trusting" that the sight of a gun would send him running, or that you could get in the first shot.

The odds of him doing "something stupid" go up sharply when you have that gun.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #82 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
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" A criminal is a criminal is a criminal. "
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If it's the same thing why do we need the patriot act or homeland security? Why not just let the FBI handle it?

As for the rest of it.....Well if he had the gun in the guy's face I think he knew it was there. As far as violent encounters go they are fast and unpredictable. In those close quarters no amount of training ( ) will guarantee a predictable outcome.

Well, I'm not an American but I think Patriot Act and the Homeland Security bullshit are a far worse assault on American freedom than any terrorist has managed. I think the "war on terrorism" should be mainly a police matter since terrorists are criminals, not soldiers or spies.

I wasn't commenting about Jubelum's situation at all, I told what I'd do in similar situations.

If you can't be sure of the outcome (no shit), you still work towards the best possible one. What's difficult to understand about that?
post #83 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Wow, that's pretty creative... completely delusional as well.

If the person had wanted to stop with my vehicle, fine. It's only a "thing." I had no assurance that he was not going to then harm me or kidnap/rape/kill my wife or kids. I do not negotiate well with a knife in my face. Playing "Lets Make a Deal" when someone threatens my life is just not my style, sorry. Call it self preservation.

Is this how it should go? :
So it's time to break it to the kids: daddy was too concerned with playing nice and trying to get along to stop the man who intended to kidnap, rape, and kill their mother. It is better that she and us are victims. Your dad was a good citizen, helpless victim, and your life is changed forever because of it. But at least that "addabox" guy will not insult him now. That makes everything better.


Thanks so much for your holiday gift of free psychoanalysis. Next time, please direct it to the wall at your left.



Man, that right wing framing. Sure, everybody here is suggesting that you "negotiate" and "play nice" and "get along" with the car jacker. Because that's your liberal pussy for you-- always worried about making friends.

If you want to fantasize that every street criminal is prepared to kidnap, rape and kill, then there is no limit to the level of reciprocal violence that would be justified. Just shoot first, ask questions later. After all, how could you know that some kid wasn't a monster?

But in the real world, drawing down on a mugger or car jacker sharply increases the odds that you will get killed, whereas simply complying is your best bet to get through it.

That's the truth of the world, as opposed to your hard man fantasy. I'm sure phrases like "I don't negotiate well with a knife in my face" sound really good to you, but to me, it sounds like a little kid who thinks the world works like TV.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #84 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
It's hard not to notice that the framing here-- that I must either "trust" a criminal or be prepared to match him in firepower-- is exactly what has been used to justify the war in Iraq.

Something about the reactionary mindset, or is this some kind of right wing conventional wisdom that Bush drew from?

At any rate, I don't expect some adrenaline buzzed kid to be rational. That's why I wouldn't expect him to react like I might hope if a produced a gun.

You are "trusting" that the sight of a gun would send him running, or that you could get in the first shot.

The odds of him doing "something stupid" go up sharply when you have that gun.

No. You're wrong and you're putting words in my mouth.

I'm saying situations exist where violence is the best way to end the illegal threat against you.

When you have exhausted the nonviolent means that are available to you, which will take care of most of the situations, then you are left with the violent means. If you maintain a belief this situation will never, ever occur, you are almost sure to get hurt when it does. If you are mentally prepared for it, you have a good chance. Having tools (weapons) prepared to aid you in that situation, though not necessary, is common sense. The most important thing is the resolve to act no matter how bleak things look. You insist on fixating on guns, why is that?

Having a weapon, but deciding not to take it out, produces the same outcome than not having one. You are incorrect to claim that a confrontation would be somehow more risky if you have a weapon. It's an option that you have available if things turn out bad.

Should I have to use force on someone, I won't be under an illusion of being safe. On the contrary, I have to feel credibly threatened in the first place to believe that is the best course of action left for me to take.

Once things get to that point I'll just do what I can and hope it's enough. There's no 'trust' in there, like you claim.
post #85 of 94
Hey, I've got a question for Jub.

You're sleeping at night with your wife next to you. A home invader walks into your room and threatens you with a knife. What do you do?
post #86 of 94
You roll over on the floor and hope he doesnt stab you
The Supreme Being
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The Supreme Being
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post #87 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Hey, I've got a question for Jub.

You're sleeping at night with your wife next to you. A home invader walks into your room and threatens you with a knife. What do you do?

It remind me : crocodile dundee, when he was threaten by a knife in New York : this a knife ?
Looks : this is a KNIFE
post #88 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
It remind me : crocodile dundee, when he was threaten by a knife in New York : this a knife ?
Looks : this is a KNIFE

And isn't that the point? If we get knives, the crooks get guns; if we get guns, the crooks get bigger guns; if we get bigger guns, the crooks get plasma rifles...
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #89 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
And isn't that the point? If we get knives, the crooks get guns; if we get guns, the crooks get bigger guns; if we get bigger guns, the crooks get plasma rifles...

Well, Crocodile dundee is just a comic movie, not real life. You will never see me jumping in the water to stab a croco, or whatever else ...

You see, this type of scene is typically the type of scene that make you happy : it's the type of scene that you would to experiment yourself, but that you know you should not experience in real life because of what you say.
post #90 of 94
My point in asking that question was that if you have a gun, you need to keep it locked up at all times to keep it safe from being picked up by a child, stolen by a criminal or found by someone who's depressed. That means not keeping it under your pillow or in a bedside drawer, or in the glove compartment. But if you keep it locked up at all times, then what's the use in having it.

So let's say you have your "piece" in the glove box. The knife wielding carjacker approaches you in the parking lot, and carjacks you. Oh, guess what. A criminal that just had a knife now has a gun.

Or lets say you have it in your bedside table. Do you take it out again in the morning every morning and lock it up in a safe? Do you put it in your glove box? Where do you put it when you take a shower or a shit? Oops. I never though my nephew would open my bedside drawer while I was in the can. I never thought my girlfriend would get angry at me and fly into a rage. I never thought Id ever feel like killing myself.
post #91 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
My point in asking that question was that if you have a gun, you need to keep it locked up at all times to keep it safe from being picked up by a child, stolen by a criminal or found by someone who's depressed. That means not keeping it under your pillow or in a bedside drawer, or in the glove compartment. But if you keep it locked up at all times, then what's the use in having it.

So let's say you have your "piece" in the glove box. The knife wielding carjacker approaches you in the parking lot, and carjacks you. Oh, guess what. A criminal that just had a knife now has a gun.

A criminal can *always* get a gun anyway. Honestly, you think he's unarmed if he doesn't rob a gun from you specifically?

If I had a gun for defense, I'd keep it bedside at night and wear it in a holster in daytime. And lock it up in car/safe if it's momentarily impossible to carry. (Going to buildings with gun bans, etc.)
post #92 of 94
I don't want some MoFo armed with guns delivering my Pizzas. WTF, do all of us live in Crawford, Texas or what?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #93 of 94
Thread Starter 
Time to let this thread die. It has outlived its usefulness.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #94 of 94
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Time to let this thread die. It has outlived its usefulness.


I don't know. I think it can be very interesting.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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