or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › We must fight to protect our values and our culture
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

We must fight to protect our values and our culture

post #1 of 63
Thread Starter 
This is an example of what those of us who support The President and his values system are fighting against. Given a chance, the secular humanists in the US would have us go the way of Scandinavia. Folks of faith unite!

From Lonestar Times:



What a wonderful world?
Andy_Adams

Want to see the future of marriage and families if liberals have their way?_ Just take a look at USA TODAYs report_from Scandinavia:

On both sides of the Atlantic, the forces that have driven up the birth rate for unmarried mothers are the same: the introduction of the birth control pill, feminism, the rising number of women in the workforce and the decline of religion. The roles of men and women in the family and society have changed over the past 40 years. Traditional households headed by male wage earners have waned, giving way to everything from single-parent households to families that combine the children that parents have had together and with other partners.
In Scandinavia, however, social trends have been reinforced by policies designed to promote equality for women and further separate the church and state. As a result, the link between marriage and having children has all but disappeared.

(What may seem a tragedy to many religious and traditional Americans, is apparently some sort of heaven on earth for the Scandinavians._ Listen to this description):

In Scandinavia, there is no "family values" debate, no soul-searching for ways to reverse the upward trend in divorces and separations. Instead, "the discussion has been more focused on how can we help people who want to split up? How can we make it easier for single parents?" she says. "It's not that the government encourages it. They adapt to make it easier for single parents, single mothers."_
So, the state provides maintenance allowances for children (in the event the father does not pay support), and housing allowances. About two-thirds of single mothers in Sweden, for example, receive housing allowances._

(Wait, it gets better.)

"The government does not think it is their place to show people how they are supposed to live," says Maria Lidström, a co-coordinator for family policy for Sweden's division of children and family affairs. "Since it was (becoming) more common to live together and have children without marrying, they introduced laws that made it easier for families who were not married."

(OK, but what about this . . ._)

But when women walk in for a job interview, the world is not so equal. About half of all women in Sweden work in the public sector. By contrast, 77% of women in the USA work in the private sector. Of managers in the private sector, about 20% are women in Nordic countries, vs. 37% in the USA. The reason: Family leave in Scandinavia ranges from one to two years with 80% pay and is fairly evenly divided between the parents.
Here, fathers typically transfer almost all of their time-off to the mothers. And because mothers take so much time off work, companies are more reluctant to hire them. The result: women tend to find jobs in more flexible sectors like health care, teaching or government. And they aren't promoted as often as men._
Scandinavian governments are now considering changing the laws to require men to take more of their share of child leave after the baby is born. "Ultimately (the government) wants to help women in the workforce to make them more competitive," says Lidström, the Swedish co-coordinator for family policy, "The other reason is to make men more involved in the family life."

(What happened to not showing people how they are supposed to live. All this and its really cold too._ Yeah, sounds like a real paradise.)


http://www.lonestartimes.com/index.p...4,1147,0,0,1,0
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
post #2 of 63
I forgot we are all scandinavians in the us...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #3 of 63
you're right. It's hell here. Better stay away...
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #4 of 63
Keep 'em God fearing, barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. It's the way of the common folk.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
post #5 of 63
Our values and culture?
You must be talking about greed, materialism, mass ignorance, law-of-the-jungle economics, violence and thuggery, warmongering, duplicity, arbitrary intolerances, hatred of minorities, authoritarianism and government secrecy, big-brotherism, confidence-trickster 'christianity' by fear and blackmail, false flag operations, human rights abuse, trashing the environment, etc .. etc..
All worth fighting for huh?
Yep, we know where you're coming from...
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #6 of 63
Someone pass the herring and the goat cheese please!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #7 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
Keep 'em God fearing, barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. It's the way of the common folk.


And the way of the common man!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #8 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
This is an example of what those of us who support The President and his values system are fighting against.

It sounds like Sweden is moving forward. Here in the US, we're stuck with old idealogies, it feels we're moving backwards at time.
Look towards the future, not the past. Sweden is.
post #9 of 63
Thread Starter 
The dissolution of the family unit is moving forward? Come on. I know many of you want a completely secular anything goes culture. I think it is a bad way to go.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
Reply
post #10 of 63
Hey, let's get down to earth. Scandinavia is still a quite religious place. All countries have protestantism as state religion. The prime-minister of Norway is actually a priest. and so on...
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #11 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The dissolution of the family unit is moving forward? Come on. I know many of you want a completely secular anything goes culture. I think it is a bad way to go.

Nah, we all secretly side with you.

We want our women subservient. Get them off the pill! Stop them from working. Make them take the kids to Sunday school in the SUV.

I expect a dinner on the table when I get home, damnit.

Hey, grab me a beer while you're in the kitchen ... I'm too busy being a dick to do it myself.

Yes, we all want that life of leisure led by the common man.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
post #12 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The dissolution of the family unit is moving forward? Come on. I know many of you want a completely secular anything goes culture. I think it is a bad way to go.

There's nothing wrong with the traditional family values that most people in America cherish. The problem is that if you're gay or if you don't believe in God (or both, God forbid), all of a sudden you're treated as a second-class citizen - just like blacks and women were not so long ago.
post #13 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The dissolution of the family unit is moving forward? Come on. I know many of you want a completely secular anything goes culture. I think it is a bad way to go.

What is the purpose of the family unit?

Is that purpose satisfied under the Scadinavian system (Swedish, to be precise)?

If you look at the reasons people cherish "families," it is precisely the reasoning behind these reforms. The problem with conservative intellects is they forget about reasons and purposes, and focus on institutions and the "way things are and should be."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #14 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
This is an example of what those of us who support The President and his values system are fighting against.

The new axis of evil:

Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Iceland.

So single parents have a nice life here and isn´t forced to stay married with someone they don´t love? What a hate-filled place where the government isn´t even encouraging/forcing a certain way of living your life. Why give the people a choice how to live their life if the government knows better? If the people tries to change the social fabric of society it is the role of the government to keep the rules strict so people are kept in line. "The government does not think it is their place to show people how they are supposed to live," What a mad woman

And of course more women work in the public sector. The public sector is larger here than in US!

The funny thing is that what formed at least danish culture into what it is today is not socialists or "liberals" but protestants! The idea of each single human having direct responsibility toward god for his actions formed the idea that you have direct responsible towards you fellow man. Its isn´t society that
should condemn you but yourself and god. Protestantism lead to extreme individualism with extreme responsibility.

To be fair I have some comments: Since I am liberal (not in the "big government" as you americans use the word but as in social freedom free from governmental or religious prejudgement): Forced family leave for men (or women) is not the way ahead, if women choose to work at jobs with flexibility it should be their choice and the government should refrain from intruding into the choice of the individual. Its a long discussion and of course its every bit as unfair when the individual woman in the labour marked is judged on how "women" behave. I have suggestions how to fight this catch 22 but its for another thread.

And as a side note: Out of my last six bosses: Four were lesbians, two were lonely parents (and the kids weren´t neglected!). One was part time and I could go on. All of those companies are large (1000-50000 employees), in the financial or telecom sector and very competitive. They have realized to get the best workers the have to be just as flexible towards the workers as they expect us to be towards them. Not to hire women as leaders because they might have children in the future only hurts the bottom line because you won´t get the best people. And smart companies have realized that now and those are the ones that will survive!
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #15 of 63
" The president and his values system ".

Ahhhggghhh! ( hits head against wall ).

What values are those? Lying to start a war?

Phoney baloney phrases like " We'll smoke em' out " as an answer to catching the guy responsible for 911.

Or we could talk about what he's going to do by cutting everything except defense and security!

I can't wait for what's next!

Geez! How the hell did this valueless guy get in there in the first place?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #16 of 63
Firstly, your way of life and your culture are not under threat. Something like three quarters of Americans go to Church regularly. In your Senate, your Congress and soon your Supreme Court, the majority of members think like you. Your President is a committed Christian.

What are you afraid of? Who, exactly, do you want to fight?

Secondly, that description of Scandinavia describes a place I don't recognise. Apart from the last paragraph, which describes a progressive society that values the contribution made by its women and is finding ways to better use it.

Thirdly, I have actually been to 'Scandinavia'. Have you actually been to 'Scandinavia'?

Why do you title a thread 'We must fight for our culture and our way of life' and then quote at length from a piece about how awful 'Scandinavia' is'?

And do you notice I put 'Scandinavia' in quotes? This is because 'Scandinavia' is several nation states with their own governments and courts where people speak different languages and do different things. But this piece describes a weird political bloc that doesn't exist. It's absolutely designed to play on the ignorance and fear of the people intended to read it; it's a piece of bollocks propaganda.
post #17 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by lolo
It sounds like Sweden is moving forward. Here in the US, we're stuck with old idealogies, it feels we're moving backwards at time.
Look towards the future, not the past. Sweden is.

Its funny but I see the marriage thing in Sweden as a natural outgrowth of their past: The Germaninc tribes, and particualrly those of the far north were very comunnal and often even lived together in large communal houses.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #18 of 63
Fewer than 5% of children in single mother households in Sweden live in poverty. In US it's about 50%. Which do you think is a better system?

That article is a gross misrepresentation of the truth, and was written by someone who doesn't even come close to understanding the real issue here. It assumes, just as Common Man does, that single parenthood is the problem, and that it's single parenthood that should be avoided. It's understandable that uneducated Americans should think that, since the rate of poverty among single mothers in the US is so high that they might get the idea that one leads to another. Actually, it's poverty that's the problem, and Sweden just doesn't have any. The US should not fight single parenthood. The US should fight poverty.

The Swedish system works. The US system is fucked up. So shouldn't we look to Sweden as a model? OF COURSE WE SHOULD.

Sorry, it's really old data, but here's a link.

In case you have a policy of only clicking on conservative links, I'll quote it here:

Quote:
In Australia, Canada and the United States, over 50% of children in solo-mother families are living below the Luxembourg Income Study poverty line. In Australia, Norway and the US, such children account for over half the children in poverty.

In other countries, government policies mitigate the effects. Denmark, Finland, and Sweden also have a high percentage of children in solo-mother families, yet fewer than 10% live below the poverty line.
post #19 of 63
Here's some more recent news.

"Sweden ranks third in international index on poverty reduction measures in the world"
post #20 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Here's some more recent news.

"Sweden ranks third in international index on poverty reduction measures in the world"

yeah sounds like a real paradise on earth doen't it, Scandynavia. You cant even arm the children of singlemothers to fight back
post #21 of 63
Scandinavia is a fantastic place to live, but unfortunately it's cold there, and not so sunny in winter ...

The funniest thing with this thread is that common man, choose scandinavia to paint moral degeneration.

As Anders noted, Scandinavia is made of various countries, who share protestantism. People in scandinavia are very rigid with moral. I had some interesting discussions some years ago about this subject with a finnish woman. For a scandinavian for example a french or a british is very Olé Olé.

The truth is that in many aspect Scandinavia is much more morally rigid than US. The difference is that her moral values are not sexists.
post #22 of 63
Anybody care to look up and post divorce rates, teenage pregnancies, violent crimes, education rates, poverty rates, ... comparing the US to 'Scandinavia'?
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
Reply
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
Reply
post #23 of 63
Some numbers i found through Google (probably not all reliable, if you can provide better ones, please do so)

Divorce rates (1999, per 1000):
'Scandinavia': 2.5
US: 4

Teen pregnancies (per 1000)
Europe: <20
US: 48

Abortion rates (number of abortion per woman):
'Scandinavia': 0.5
US: 0.69

Incarceration rate (per 100K):
'Scandinavia': 60
US: 666

Homicide rate (per 100K):
'Scandinavia': 2.5
US: 8.2


Some nice culture/value-system you are defending there my friend...
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
Reply
It's Better To Be Hated For What You Are Than To Be Loved For What You Are Not
Reply
post #24 of 63
Common man please go to Israel, mount Golgatha, have yourself nailed up and show us your love by dying. Thanks.
post #25 of 63
Common Man, where are you? You've started a thread comparing your President's 'values system' to the system to that's pushed 'Scandinavia' to the brink of collapse, you've been presented with a raftload of contrary evidence and I call on you now to be a man!

Don't get all French on us and run up the white flag!

We know you're not a lame knobhead who can only post stuff from illiterate fascist blogs, someone who doesn't know what the hell to write if he can't quote someone else, so come on, don't disappoint us!

Only a total, utter, wankstained dinnerspaz would start a thread like this and evaporate, and since that's emphatically not you I'm waiting eagerly to see your responses! Just to one or two posts, maybe?
post #26 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Common Man, where are you? You've started a thread comparing your President's 'values system' to the system to that's pushed 'Scandinavia' to the brink of collapse, you've been presented with a raftload of contrary evidence and I call on you now to be a man!

Don't get all French on us and run up the white flag!

We know you're not a lame knobhead who can only post stuff from illiterate fascist blogs, someone who doesn't know what the hell to write if he can't quote someone else, so come on, don't disappoint us!

Only a total, utter, wankstained dinnerspaz would start a thread like this and evaporate, and since that's emphatically not you I'm waiting eagerly to see your responses! Just to one or two posts, maybe?

That's because he can't. He's just like so many here. He likes to make a big, bold, controversial statement just to get the dander up and then leave. That's why I suspect he's a troll.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #27 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
That's because he can't. He's just like so many here. He likes to make a big, bold, controversial statement just to get the dander up and then leave. That's why I suspect he's a troll.

Suspect ??
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #28 of 63
Isn't Sweden roughly 75% Lutheran?


edit: make that 87%

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #29 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Isn't Sweden roughly 75% Lutheran?


edit: make that 87%

Evidently the lutheran's are taking over the world, us (name of non-lutheran christian sect here) need to fear for our culture.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #30 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Suspect ??

Yeah, you're right.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #31 of 63
Syllogism :
God does not exists, thus your president is wrong.
I'm The Boss... This Is Champaign...
Merry Christmas !
Reply
I'm The Boss... This Is Champaign...
Merry Christmas !
Reply
post #32 of 63
To bring this thread back, I wanted to share the extent of our scandinavian paganism with y'all.

The fact is that we don't speak about christmas in Scandinavia. We call it Jul(Yule), and we actually call santa Santa "julenisse" / "jultomte" , which is roughly translatable to somthing like "the christmas goblin" or "troll"...

And then there is the Christmas tree, which is pagan as hell of course... (no pun intended).
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #33 of 63
So we're definitly talking about Lutherans of a different stripe? 87%[CIA world fact book]?!

(or maybe the CIA got the name wrong of whatever grop they infiltrated?)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #34 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by New
And then there is the Christmas tree, which is pagan as hell of course... (no pun intended).

from wikipedia
Quote:
Among early Germanic tribes the Yule tradition was celebrated by sacrificing male animals, and slaves, by suspending them on the branches of trees.

Is that true?
post #35 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
This is an example of what those of us who support The President and his values system are fighting against.



So basically you and the author are weak and scared of women. Got it.
post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Isn't Sweden roughly 75% Lutheran?


edit: make that 87%

i think they meant protestant in the "not Catholic and not Eastern Orthodox" sense. ie, encompassing nearly all the breakoffs from the one universal church since the reformation.
post #37 of 63
no, it definitly sadi Lutheran.


OMG! 87% Lutheran -- I wonder if Garrison Keillor knows about this.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #38 of 63
Whats wrong with lutherans?
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #39 of 63
It's actually a "Prarie Home Companion" reference. I guess it's not funny if NO ONE gets the joke.

I'll stop.\

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #40 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
It's actually a "Prarie Home Companion" reference. I guess it's not funny if NO ONE gets the joke.

I'll stop.\


Thank you. I was baptized a lutheran.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › We must fight to protect our values and our culture