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Piper Jaffray echos 5GB iPod reports

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
A research firm providing coverage of Apple Computer says the iPod maker is likely to debut a beefed up iPod mini player during the second week of January.

Following AppleInsider reports from earlier this month, research firm Piper Jaffray said this week it believes Apple will increase the capacity of the iPod mini MP3 player to 5GB from 4GB at the Macworld conference during the second week of January.

In a note to clients, the firm said the storage bump would make the iPod mini more competitive with the Pocket Digital Jukebox from Dell and the Rio Carbon player, which both sport 5GB capacities. Piper Jaffray also predicts that Apple will launch a flashed-based iPod and an embedded iTunes application that will run on a new breed of Motorola cell phones.

According to AppleInsider sources, both of these new Apple iPod players are already in production in Asia. Sources also say Apple has enlisted Seagate Technologies, a worldwide leader in hard disk design and manufacturing, as its supplier of 1-inch 5GB microdrives. The company's current iPod mini uses 4GB 1-inch drives from component supplier, Hitachi.

But one of the hottest rumors lately is that Apple, in an effort to keep up with holiday demand, may have already started to use Seagate's 1-inch 5G microdrives in currently shipping iPod minis. These players reportedly look and feel identical to the original iPod mini and employ a firmware block that restricts functional capacity to 4GB. This move may have stemmed from an inadequate supply of 4GB drives from Hitachi, sources said.

Piper Jaffray continues to uphold an "outperform" rating on Apple, reiterating confidence that the popularity of the iPod will help motivate PC users to migrate to the Macintosh platform over the next two years.
post #2 of 24

In a note to clients, the firm said the storage bump would make the iPod mini more competitive with the Pocket Digital Jukebox from Dell and the Rio Carbon player, which both sport 5GB capacities. Piper Jaffray also predicts that Apple will launch a flashed-based iPod and an embedded iTunes application that will run on a new breed of Motorola cell phones.


First, I didn't know that the mini wasn't competitive with the Dell and Rio. I haven't seen sales figures, but I gathering from this that the mini is at least third in sales.

Second, predicting iTunes for the cell phone is, well, one heckuva prediction. Considering Apple already announced the partnership with motorola to do just that.
post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer

In a note to clients, the firm said the storage bump would make the iPod mini more competitive with the Pocket Digital Jukebox from Dell and the Rio Carbon player, which both sport 5GB capacities. Piper Jaffray also predicts that Apple will launch a flashed-based iPod and an embedded iTunes application that will run on a new breed of Motorola cell phones.


First, I didn't know that the mini wasn't competitive with the Dell and Rio. I haven't seen sales figures, but I gathering from this that the mini is at least third in sales.

Second, predicting iTunes for the cell phone is, well, one heckuva prediction. Considering Apple already announced the partnership with motorola to do just that.

I agree with you. We're just reporting what the firm said. They should have used the word 'comparable' instead of 'competative.'

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post #4 of 24
i'm quite certain the iPod mini sells *considerably* more than either the Dell or Rio offerings. i think the writer was just noting the need to not be "outdone" by feature sets that are common in the... um... less popular players...
post #5 of 24
ummmm, so my new mini may be a 5GB? aww geez, now im gonna obsess about this
post #6 of 24
Research Firm? Piper Jaffrey?

Folks, this is a Stock Brokerage Firm, ala Edward Jones, Sith-Barney, Merrill Lynch, etc.,.

It happens to be the firm my Mom uses. I use Edward Jones myself.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
Research Firm? Piper Jaffrey?

Folks, this is a Stock Brokerage Firm, ala Edward Jones, Sith-Barney, Merrill Lynch, etc.,.

It happens to be the firm my Mom uses. I use Edward Jones myself.

Since when are the two exclusive of one another? Piper Jaffray, like many security firms, does their own independent research. In the case of Piper Jaffray they have an Investment Research Group within the company.

It's kinda like saying General Electric is not a defense contractor, they are a manufacturer of kitchen appliances. When, actually, they are both.
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by elvingomez
ummmm, so my new mini may be a 5GB? aww geez, now im gonna obsess about this

My brother just got an iPod mini for Christmas, too. I wonder if Apple would be so kind as to release a firmware update when they announce the new mini for those who may have a 5GB drive and not know it.

M@
post #9 of 24
This rumor is wicked kewl. Your iPod mini might be a 5-giger. Amazing. However, as much as I would like this to be true, it's probably not. Users who purchased an iPod mini this holiday season and got a Hitachi drive instead of a seagate one would be very pissed.

If I were Apple and I'd start putting 5 gig drives instead of 4 gig ones, I'd put them on the least popular color so that the rejected iPods came with a surprise extra gig. I personally like the gold one. Gooooooldmember.

By the way, I'm back!
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by maverick18x
I wonder if Apple would be so kind as to release a firmware update when they announce the new mini for those who may have a 5GB drive and not know it.

M@

the answer is no. if there ever is a method to access the rumored extra gig... it wont come from apple.
post #11 of 24
Hey, does anyone else remember an AI story referencing an interview with a Hitachi exec that had Hitachi being on track to intro a 6Gb drive for the iPod mini around now?

I'd definitely rather see the iPod moving ahead of the competition rather than just catching up. Could this be the update and not the Seagate drive? Here's hoping!
post #12 of 24
Quote:
But one of the hottest rumors lately is that Apple, in an effort to keep up with holiday demand, may have already started to use Seagate's 1-inch 5G microdrives in currently shipping iPod minis. These players reportedly look and feel identical to the original iPod mini and employ a firmware block that restricts functional capacity to 4GB. This move may have stemmed from an inadequate supply of 4GB drives from Hitachi, sources said.

This isn't a new concept for Apple. For years it was known to always check the drive that came with your computer, because they may have thrown in a 50MB drive instead of a 40 (yes, I did just say MB, it was an old issue), or something like that. Apple would format their drives to a specific size (say 40MB) even if it could hold more, so some users wouldn't be pissed they got less then someone else. But if you opened up DriveSetup and check out the partitions, you might find a surprise extra bit of space.

Of course, nowadays, your usually pissed because your 80GB hard drive formats to like 73GB, and you want your other 7.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
By the way, I'm back!

What? I didn't even know you were away!
post #14 of 24
It's rather disingenuous to describe Piper as a Research Firm. That branch is small. The analogy of General Electric washes out since G.E. has dozens of corporations underneath its umbrella. IBM compared to G.E. is a worthy analogy.

About Piper Jaffray

Overview
Piper Jaffray is a client-focused securities firm dedicated to delivering superior financial advice, investment products and transaction execution within targeted sectors of the financial services marketplace. We serve middle-market companies, government, non-profit entities, and institutional and private investors.

Where did that Research description go?

http://www.piperjaffray.com/info3.aspx?id=2

I was just pointing out that with a little research the title could have been more accurate.

Swap out Research with Securities.


Quote:
Originally posted by hmmfe
Since when are the two exclusive of one another? Piper Jaffray, like many security firms, does their own independent research. In the case of Piper Jaffray they have an Investment Research Group within the company.

It's kinda like saying General Electric is not a defense contractor, they are a manufacturer of kitchen appliances. When, actually, they are both.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
What? I didn't even know you were away!

C'mon, don't pretend you didn't miss me, Louzer.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Of course, nowadays, your usually pissed because your 80GB hard drive formats to like 73GB, and you want your other 7.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Apple except for the fact that their OS misrepresents what 1 GB is. It should be noted virtually every OS does. It is not Apple artificially limiting your HD space.
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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
That has absolutely nothing to do with Apple except for the fact that their OS misrepresents what 1 GB is. It should be noted virtually every OS does. It is not Apple artificially limiting your HD space.

They most certainly are NOT misrepresenting what 1GB is. 1 GB = 2^30, or 1,073,741,824 bytes. Anyone who's been involved with computers understands that computers work with powers of 2. If the hard drive manufacturers want to mislead their customers, then that's up to them. But it is definitely not the computer manufacturers misrepresenting what 1 GB equals.

You'll see a sticker on every hard drive that says something to the effect of "x GB (1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes)". So when Apple's System Profiler says your "160GB" hard drive = 149.05GB, that's because 149.05 * 2^30 = 160,041,218,867 or 160GB.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
They most certainly are NOT misrepresenting what 1GB is. 1 GB = 2^30, or 1,073,741,824 bytes. Anyone who's been involved with computers understands that computers work with powers of 2. If the hard drive manufacturers want to mislead their customers, then that's up to them. But it is definitely not the computer manufacturers misrepresenting what 1 GB equals.

You'll see a sticker on every hard drive that says something to the effect of "x GB (1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes)". So when Apple's System Profiler says your "160GB" hard drive = 149.05GB, that's because 149.05 * 2^30 = 160,041,218,867 or 160GB.

When you say most certainly are not you really mean are and that you just don't know enough right?

Lets starts with a lesson on prefixes.

kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta, etc are SI prefixes. If you passed high school science you should know this. These are all prefixes defined by an international standard.

1 kilowatt is 1 000 watts, 1 megawatt is 1 000 000 watts and so on and so forth. They are all prefixes based on 10^x. This is the definition, it is internationally agreed upon.

In the early years of computing though they had no prefixes so they simply took the closest SI prefixes and used them. It was never accurate it was just a case of close enough is good enough for now. When the exponents are small then the error is fairly reasonable but as sizes have increased the error has increased along with it to the extent that there is a separate list of standard prefixes for binary numbers. OS manufacturers fail to use this and in doing so mislead their customers.

Traditionally HD manufacturers and people concerned with bandwidth or data transfer have used the prefixes correctly because they have no reliance on binary numbers. OS manufacturers and RAM manufacturers have simply been too lazy to in many cases just add a letter.

Try here or here or best yet.

Oh and if you think this is all just semantics, it is but I know of more than a few very large screw ups that have happened on account of people not paying attention to the semantics. These things matter especially where engineering or large sums of money are concerned.
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post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
It's rather disingenuous to describe Piper as a Research Firm.
...
Where did that Research description go?

Ummmmm, how about right here:

www.piperjaffray.com/info3.aspx?id=78

Wow, right on their website. Those disingenuous bastards.
post #20 of 24
Telomar,

It has been standard procedure in the CS community for years to treat computer measurements as a power of 2, since that's what computers are based on. When you take those algorithm classes or apply discrete math to determine the big Oh of said algorithm, it is all by default to be considered base 2. In other words, you won't see "log2(x)" even though this is accurate. You will just use "log(x)" even though in non-CS arenas, this would actually be interpreted as "log10(x)".

So the real issue is one of context. In most scientific communities, a Kilo = 1000, Mega = 1000000, etc. But in CS, a Kilo = 2^10, which nets 1024.

[edit]
Thanks for the lesson, but I have quite the handle on this, thank you very much.
post #21 of 24
The IEC (the standards body for electrotechnology and supported by the IEEE) has agreed with SI on this. As I say if you were less lazy and bothered to check any of those sites you will find binary numbers have their own defined prefixes and have had since 1998. The fact is most people in the computer sciences are just either ignorant or lazy.

In all scientific communities kilo = 10^3, mega = 10^6, etc. Why because that's how the standard defines it. Since you don't seem to know kibi = 2^10, mebi = 2^20, etc. For reference the SI standards have adopted the IEC's standard for binary numbers too.
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post #22 of 24
You know, maybe as soon as I start seeing those prefixes in any CS text, then maybe I'll change my tune. Until then you're just like me, another anonymous poster on the intarweb.

Signed, just another ignorant and lazy CS graduate.
post #23 of 24
To me, 1 megabyte will always be 1024 kilobytes and 1 gigabyte will always be 1024 megabytes etc. And the word 'colour' will always be spelt with a 'u'. Aluminium will always be aluminium, not aluminum.

Get my drift?
post #24 of 24
An 5 GB iPod mini will be fine, but I think the big hit should be a lower one. I don't belive in a Flash iPod Mini but I belive a cheepest 2 or 2.5 GB microdrive version. Seagate's annouced not only the 5GB MD but also a 2.5.
Apple could sell it for $160-$200.
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