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WP: Clinton Leads While Bush Vacations

post #1 of 126
Thread Starter 
In the long tradition of leaders such as Emperor Nero who let Rome burn and Marie Antoinette who told the starving to "let them eat cake", George W. Bush is still down in Texas on the ranch vacationing while ten of thousands of bodies are being discovered in the rubble & washing up on the beach.

According to the Washington Post , President Clinton has been the voice of America overseas during this tradgedy...

Quote:
...In Germany, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder cut short his vacation and returned to work in Berlin because of the Indian Ocean crisis, which began with a gigantic underwater earthquake. In Britain, the predominant U.S. voice speaking about the disaster was not Bush but former president Bill Clinton, who in an interview with the BBC said the suffering was like something in a "horror movie," and urged a coordinated international response...

Of course, the White House doesn't like being shown up, but experts are saying that Bush's reaction to this event, may impact the global response to any future domestic terrorist attack...

Quote:
...Earlier yesterday, White House spokesman Trent Duffy said the president was confident he could monitor events effectively without returning to Washington or making public statements in Crawford, where he spent part of the day clearing brush and bicycling. Explaining the about-face, a White House official said: "The president wanted to be fully briefed on our efforts. He didn't want to make a symbolic statement about 'We feel your pain.' "

Many Bush aides believe Clinton was too quick to head for the cameras to hold forth on tragedies with his trademark empathy. "Actions speak louder than words," a top Bush aide said, describing the president's view of his appropriate role.

Some foreign policy specialists said Bush's actions and words both communicated a lack of urgency about an event that will loom as large in the collective memories of several countries as the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks do in the United States. "When that many human beings die -- at the hands of terrorists or nature -- you've got to show that this matters to you, that you care," said Leslie H. Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.

There was an international outpouring of support after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and even some administration officials familiar with relief efforts said they were surprised that Bush had not appeared personally to comment on the tsunami tragedy. "It's kind of freaky," a senior career official said...



Here's an AFP article of President Clinton's interview on the disaster, and what he would like the response to be...

Quote:
..."It is really important that somebody take the lead in this," he told BBC Radio 4's Today program.

"I think one of the problems is when everybody takes responsibility it's almost like no one's responsibility."

Clinton said individual countries should target aid at specific areas.

"Maybe what we should do is get countries or groups of countries to take responsibility for specific countries that were hurt," he said.

"I think if you did that you would have a better chance of seeing responsibilities fulfilled even when the emotional tug wanes"...
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post #2 of 126
Well it's clear Bush likes his vacations.
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post #3 of 126
Yea it's all beers and brush clearing down there. No real work all. No doubt the terrorist will attack because of this.
post #4 of 126
Don't forget: Clinton beat Bush to NYC after 9/11, as well.
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post #5 of 126
Scott:

Do you think it adds anything to discussions to dismiss valid concerns with fatuous sarcasm?
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post #6 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Scott:

Do you think it adds anything to discussions to dismiss valid concerns with fatuous sarcasm?

why do you take the bait?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #7 of 126
Bush has a quite strong and well-backed public image as a slow-reacting layabout. Look at the press conferences from Crawford, it says "The Western White House" above his head. The hubris and redneck "fuck 'em" attitude is apalling. It is like there is absolutely no desire to play nice. A rebel without a cause or clue.

Can he keep informed in Crawford? Sure.
Can he be as involved as he would be in DC? Absolutely not.

This isn't about someone doing the minimum, as Bush apologists hurry to explain that he is meeting that minimum. This should be about the maximum. This is 30x worse, at least, than 9/11. At least. He's clearing brush.

It isn't that his not clearing brush would save lives, but it is certainly not the sign of a leader to CLEAR BRUSH AT A RANCH IN BUMFUCK, TEXAS while one of the biggest humanitarian disasters in human history unfolds.
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post #8 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Scott:

Do you think it adds anything to discussions to dismiss valid concerns with fatuous sarcasm?

Sure, it points out the sheer stupidty of the premise.
post #9 of 126
What, specifically, is stupid about the premise of this thread?
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post #10 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
What, specifically, is stupid about the premise of this thread?

I think he perceived it simply as an attack on his hero GW and we all know how touchy those Bush Fanatics can be.
post #11 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Bush has a quite strong and well-backed public image as a slow-reacting layabout. Look at the press conferences from Crawford, it says "The Western White House" above his head. The hubris and redneck "fuck 'em" attitude is apalling. It is like there is absolutely no desire to play nice. A rebel without a cause or clue.

Can he keep informed in Crawford? Sure.
Can he be as involved as he would be in DC? Absolutely not.

This isn't about someone doing the minimum, as Bush apologists hurry to explain that he is meeting that minimum. This should be about the maximum. This is 30x worse, at least, than 9/11. At least. He's clearing brush.

It isn't that his not clearing brush would save lives, but it is certainly not the sign of a leader to CLEAR BRUSH AT A RANCH IN BUMFUCK, TEXAS while one of the biggest humanitarian disasters in human history unfolds.

What should he have done, before information was in. Maybe he should have flown AF-1 and then gotten into a chopper and personally tried to drag bodies out of the drink. You people are ridiculous and increasingly monotonous.

Things don't happen instantly despite you getting video tapes on your TV immediately following any kind of event. Bush had to go through channels and get permission and approval to fly over sovereign land. The facts are still coming in. When it is all said and done the US will be the single largest provider of humanitarian aid, as usual.

Stop the insanity. It is up to each liberal er "progressive". Fight the urge to spin off into hysteria at the drop of a hat. Only you can prevent upper cranial anal insertion. You have the power.
post #12 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
What should he have done, before information was in. Maybe he should have flown AF-1 and then gotten into a chopper and personally tried to drag bodies out of the drink. You people are ridiculous and increasingly monotonous.

Things don't happen instantly despite you getting video tapes on your TV immediately following any kind of event. Bush had to go through channels and get permission and approval to fly over sovereign land. The facts are still coming in. When it is all said and done the US will be the single largest provider of humanitarian aid, as usual.

Stop the insanity. It is up to each liberal er "progressive". Fight the urge to spin off into hysteria at the drop of a hat. Only you can prevent upper cranial anal insertion. You have the power.

Yes! Stop the insanity!
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post #13 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
What should he have done, before information was in. Maybe he should have flown AF-1 and then gotten into a chopper and personally tried to drag bodies out of the drink. You people are ridiculous and increasingly monotonous.

Things don't happen instantly despite you getting video tapes on your TV immediately following any kind of event. Bush had to go through channels and get permission and approval to fly over sovereign land. The facts are still coming in. When it is all said and done the US will be the single largest provider of humanitarian aid, as usual.

Stop the insanity. It is up to each liberal er "progressive". Fight the urge to spin off into hysteria at the drop of a hat. Only you can prevent upper cranial anal insertion. You have the power.

Naples: The point isn't that he's dragging his feet with aid (he's not, not at all). The point is that the man didn't even make the symbolic gesture of leaving his "vacation" to deal with/TAKE THE LEAD ON what looks to be one of the worst natural disasters in recent history.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #14 of 126
Thread Starter 
It's the casual indifference that people like Naples and Scott display that I find personally revolting.

Sometimes simple appearances is enough. Bush can't even be bothered. He waits FOUR DAYS to finally speak publicly about this catastrophe.

And they wonder why we "hate" him so...because he makes our country look like fat, glutonous, uncaring, pigs. Because he reinforces the world opinion that 3000 of our lives are worth more than 100,000.
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post #15 of 126
We are all so partisan here. No matter what Bush does, the progressives will hate it and the conservatives will justify it. From sitting in his chair for 7 min. after he is told a plane hit the 2nd tower (oh, he just didn't want to scare the children), to the ridiculous amount of vacation time he takes on his ranch (it's hard work dammit!) to not making any symbolic or outreaching efforts to help the countries struggling from the tsunamis (he's done all he needs to do from his ranch), no one is going to change any minds here. If Clinton were acting the way Bush is, the Republicans would be all over him like a flock of hawks.

It only matters how the media portrays things and what the general consensus of the people is.
post #16 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Yea it's all beers and brush clearing down there. No real work all. No doubt the terrorist will attack because of this.

Truth = anything Scott says, minus his intended irony.
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post #17 of 126
NaplesX:

Quote:
What should he have done, before information was in. Maybe he should have flown AF-1 and then gotten into a chopper and personally tried to drag bodies out of the drink. You people are ridiculous and increasingly monotonous.

Thanks for fabricating an argument that I already addressed. Nice work.

It is fairly clear that you either didn't read my post or did not want to abandon your "he couldn't save any lives" logic even though I specifically addressed it.

As a world leader, in a time of world crisis, it is not that you immediately fix problems it is that you promote an image. The President of the United States is our #1 ambassador to the world. And while nations were destroyed he cleared brush on a rural Texas ranch he bought as an election campaign backdrop.

He was clearing brush and riding bicycles, he wasn't in the Crawford Information Bunker. Have you ever cleared brush? Have you ever ridden a bicycle? Those aren't exactly activities that lend well to participating in dialogue about the day's events.

Quote:
Bush had to go through channels and get permission and approval to fly over sovereign land.

What on earth does this mean?

Please, I beg you to explain this sentence. Please please please please please.
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post #18 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
NaplesX:



Thanks for fabricating an argument that I already addressed. Nice work.

It is fairly clear that you either didn't read my post or did not want to abandon your "he couldn't save any lives" logic even though I specifically addressed it.

As a world leader, in a time of world crisis, it is not that you immediately fix problems it is that you promote an image. The President of the United States is our #1 ambassador to the world. And while nations were destroyed he cleared brush on a rural Texas ranch he bought as an election campaign backdrop.

He was clearing brush and riding bicycles, he wasn't in the Crawford Information Bunker. Have you ever cleared brush? Have you ever ridden a bicycle? Those aren't exactly activities that lend well to participating in dialogue about the day's events.



What on earth does this mean?

Please, I beg you to explain this sentence. Please please please please please.

Do you think that emergency supplies just magically appear where they are needed? The first planes on the ground were US ones, my friend. Do you think that it just happened on it's own?

How many phone calls do think had to be made? How many confirmations do you think had to be obtained? I will guarantee that GWB and the State Department were/are extremely active.

You are getting entirely worked up over nothing. Bush could do nothing to stop any of this. Bush can do nothing to stop any of the 5 million people effected by this, from also dying. If Bush had jumped up and cried like a baby, you and your ilk would have accused him of politicizing the event. You are despicable and so is everyone attacking this president on this petty and childish premise.

When all is said and done, and the US as usual is the savior of a predominantly muslim region, do you think the US and Bush will get any credit, or will the over-hyped reports of this overshadow any help that we give the world?

Great job, anti-Bushies.
post #19 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Do you think that emergency supplies just magically appear where they are needed? The first planes on the ground were US ones, my friend. Do you think that it just happened on it's own?

How many phone calls do think had to be made? How many confirmations do you think had to be obtained? I will guarantee that GWB and the State Department were/are extremely active.

You are getting entirely worked up over nothing. Bush could do nothing to stop any of this. Bush can do nothing to stop any of the 5 million people effected by this, from also dying. If Bush had jumped up and cried like a baby, you and your ilk would have accused him of politicizing the event. You are despicable and so is everyone attacking this president on this petty and childish premise.

When all is said and done, and the US as usual is the savior of a predominantly muslim region, do you think the US and Bush will get any credit, or will the over-hyped reports of this overshadow any help that we give the world?

Great job, anti-Bushies.


After the way Bush has been in the past I don't get worked up about his nonaction any more.

-----------------------------------------------------------
" When all is said and done, and the US as usual is the savior of a predominantly muslim region, do you think the US and Bush will get any credit, or will the over-hyped reports of this overshadow any help that we give the world? "

-----------------------------------------------------------




God! Wait! I can't get my breath!



Man that one's really over the top!

Sorry but in my book Bush is only in it for himself. That's been clear for quite a while now.
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post #20 of 126
"Clinton flaps his gums while Bush leads from Texas"
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post #21 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
After the way Bush has been in the past I don't get worked up about his nonaction any more.

-----------------------------------------------------------
" When all is said and done, and the US as usual is the savior of a predominantly muslim region, do you think the US and Bush will get any credit, or will the over-hyped reports of this overshadow any help that we give the world? "

-----------------------------------------------------------




God! Wait! I can't get my breath!



Man that one's really over the top!

Sorry but in my book Bush is only in it for himself. That's been clear for quite a while now.

I guess this makes you and groverat one in the same?
post #22 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
What, specifically, is stupid about the premise of this thread?

My guess is that the premise is about where you hold your press conference and how one location is "leading" and the other location is "lazy."

Clinton was in Europe and held his press conference there. Of course the Post doesn't tell us why Clinton was there. Obviously it isn't in any sort of official capacity. He is probably on one of his very financially rewarding speaking tours, or perhaps he was still promoting his book. We don't know what he was doing because the Post never cares to question his motivations.

We know Clinton stayed in the White House even when the government was shut down, and we know why as well.

Bush has already doubled the US commitment from it's initial $35 million which far exceeds any amount being given anywhere else. He has also committed twelve U.S. naval boats to the region to help.

He also said that he was coordinating our help with Australia, Japan, India, and would add anyone else willing to jump in.

But really, as usual it isn't about what was done. It is about the "intent" of that evil Bush. You must know in his heart he is EVIIIIIIIIIIIIL. Hahahahaha

What nonsense

Nick

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post #23 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
My guess is that the premise is about where you hold your press conference and how one location is "leading" and the other location is "lazy."

Clinton was in Europe and held his press conference there. Of course the Post doesn't tell us why Clinton was there. Obviously it isn't in any sort of official capacity. He is probably on one of his very financially rewarding speaking tours, or perhaps he was still promoting his book. We don't know what he was doing because the Post never cares to question his motivations.

We know Clinton stayed in the White House even when the government was shut down, and we know why as well.

Bush has already doubled the US commitment from it's initial $35 million which far exceeds any amount being given anywhere else. He has also committed twelve U.S. naval boats to the region to help.

He also said that he was coordinating our help with Australia, Japan, India, and would add anyone else willing to jump in.

But really, as usual it isn't about what was done. It is about the "intent" of that evil Bush. You must know in his heart he is EVIIIIIIIIIIIIL. Hahahahaha

What nonsense

Nick

He's not necessarily evil. Think more like a flim-flam man.
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post #24 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I guess this makes you and groverat one in the same?


You're really reaching with this one.
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post #25 of 126
Naples:

Quote:
Do you think that emergency supplies just magically appear where they are needed? The first planes on the ground were US ones, my friend. Do you think that it just happened on it's own?

When did I dispute any of that?

Quote:
How many phone calls do think had to be made? How many confirmations do you think had to be obtained? I will guarantee that GWB and the State Department were/are extremely active.

What does "extremely active" mean? Physically? Yes, brush clearing and bicycling are tired.

Quote:
Bush could do nothing to stop any of this. Bush can do nothing to stop any of the 5 million people effected by this, from also dying.

Really? Because that's exactly what I said. Good job.

Quote:
You are despicable and so is everyone attacking this president on this petty and childish premise.

Expecting the leader of the free world to act the part is petty and childish? Interesting.


trump:

Quote:
Bush has already doubled the US commitment from it's initial $35 million which far exceeds any amount being given anywhere else.

Lie. And not even a clever lie at that.
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post #26 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat

trump:



Lie. And not even a clever lie at that.

It is a lie that the administration and others are referring to the 35 million as the beginning of aid?

I'm not going to register for your link so quote it.

But again, either way, the premise of the thread has been proven nonsense. Holding a press conference in Europe vs. Texas does not make one a leader and another lazy.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #27 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
It is a lie that the administration and others are referring to the 35 million as the beginning of aid?

I'm not going to register for your link so quote it.

But again, either way, the premise of the thread has been proven nonsense. Holding a press conference in Europe vs. Texas does not make one a leader and another lazy.

Nick


It's just true to form for Dubbya.
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post #28 of 126
What absolute nonsense.

The same people who are complaining about Bush not taking the lead would be complaining about American imperialism if he had.

This is a South Asia crisis. The spotlight should be rightly kept on the government leaders from the affected countries. It's their cross to bear, their time to shine.

When 9-11 happened, nobody looked to the Canadian PM for his reaction (and those that did were sorely disappointed ) It was Bush and Giuliani on the hotseat, and they connnected.

Why the heck should Bush be doing grandiose PR gestures at a time like this?
We'd all be piling on him for trying to use the disaster for his own ends, and rightly so.

That he has had the good sense to keep his head down in the face of idiotic U.N. comments and silly calls to assume some "World President" mantle actually makes me respect him more, not less.
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post #29 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
What absolute nonsense.

The same people who are complaining about Bush not taking the lead would be complaining about American imperialism if he had.

This is a South Asia crisis. The spotlight should be rightly kept on the government leaders from the affected countries. It's their cross to bear, their time to shine.

When 9-11 happened, nobody looked to the Canadian PM for his reaction (and those that did were sorely disappointed ) It was Bush and Giuliani on the hotseat, and they connnected.

Why the heck should Bush be doing grandiose PR gestures at a time like this?
We'd all be piling on him for trying to use the disaster for his own ends, and rightly so.

That he has had the good sense to keep his head down in the face of idiotic U.N. comments and silly calls to assume some "World President" mantle actually makes me respect him more, not less.

Thank you. Honesty rears it's ugly little head in AI.

Well said and bravo.
post #30 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
What absolute nonsense.

The same people who are complaining about Bush not taking the lead would be complaining about American imperialism if he had.

This is a South Asia crisis. The spotlight should be rightly kept on the government leaders from the affected countries. It's their cross to bear, their time to shine.

When 9-11 happened, nobody looked to the Canadian PM for his reaction (and those that did were sorely disappointed ) It was Bush and Giuliani on the hotseat, and they connnected.

Why the heck should Bush be doing grandiose PR gestures at a time like this?
We'd all be piling on him for trying to use the disaster for his own ends, and rightly so.

That he has had the good sense to keep his head down in the face of idiotic U.N. comments and silly calls to assume some "World President" mantle actually makes me respect him more, not less.

In this sense, imperialism is coming to the 'aid' of a people that doesn't need or want you to come to their aid. In this sense, international charity or good faith is coming to the 'aid' of a people that need and want your aid.

They are conceptually different, but I wouldn't expect you or NaplesX to understand that.
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post #31 of 126
But the aid is being delivered. US humanitarian assistance was on the ground within minutes.

But there is no need for Bush to be doing photo ops from the Oval Office and standing guard over the situation room.
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post #32 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
But the aid is being delivered. US humanitarian assistance was on the ground within minutes.

But there is no need for Bush to be doing photo ops from the Oval Office and standing guard over the situation room.

The fact that private citizens in the US have given more money to aid efforts than the US government should be an indication that the Government is failing in this sense...
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post #33 of 126
Only to those who believe that the Government is the ultimate arbiter of life.
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post #34 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Only to those who believe that the Government is the ultimate arbiter of life.

Or those that believe in situtations like this large organizations (such as private corps or governments) have access to resources and information that private citizens do not. This isn't a liberal versus conservative ideological battle, this is fact.
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post #35 of 126
Quote:
originally posted by groverat

Can he be as involved as he would be in DC? Absolutely not.

Hmm? I'm not a Bush supporter, I voted Nader (yeah, yeah, I've heard what you're about to say before.)

I think your statement is ridiculous. This is the information age. All of the world leaders, senators, house representatives and White House staffers could probably get him information and receive information from him within under a minute, if they don't already have a direct line.

Hell, I'm willing to bet even on vacation most presidents, had time scheduled where they met or conferenced with their advisors. Hell again, I think remember seeing a number of presidents receiving world leaders while on vacation.

Doing the job of a world leader no longer requires our leaders to be tied to their desks, heck all of them could be on vacation at the same time and still manage to get the rest of us nuked.
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from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
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post #36 of 126
Modern politics is becoming truly bizarre, catering to the whims of the ignorant.

People on the left in the U.S. are critical of the conservative President for remaining on "vacation" and not hogging the Press limelight for the U.S.

In Canada, conservatives are hounding our liberal Prime Minister about the same thing. He has relented and will return from Morocco, which I'm sure will make a huge difference to the rescue efforts already underway.
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post #37 of 126
Personally I don't think it makes the slightest difference to proceedings whether the president, or prime minister or whatever, is actually at his desk to do duty, however, there is a very real symbolic gesture that makes a world of difference whether one continues to 'holiday' or chose to be 'at work' when the world experiences its worst natural disaster in history.

Sadly, too many 'important' people feel their holiday is more important than the gesture of leading the world through a time of great loss.
post #38 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Scott:

Do you think it adds anything to discussions to dismiss valid concerns with fatuous sarcasm?


Are there valid concerns being discussed here?
post #39 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Are there valid concerns being discussed here?

Oh look it's the usual odd bunch.

It's because those killed are predominanty Muslims or non-Christians isn't it?

So simple binary logic takes over, 'Christian' God sent them a terrible tragedy to punish them for their sins of rejecting the 'divine truth', and i'm quite pleased about it really, but I'd better act like I care, or I will be branded 'nasty'.
post #40 of 126
I'm not a religious person MarcUK. You're talking nonsense.
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