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WP: Clinton Leads While Bush Vacations - Page 2

post #41 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I'm not a religious person MarcUK. You're talking nonsense.

certain people troll religiously,

however, I'm quite interested in the mechanism that makes people behave like right-wing fundamentalists, while not under the constraint of believing being a militant idiot will secure a place in heaven.
post #42 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
It's because those killed are predominanty Muslims or non-Christians isn't it?

So simple binary logic takes over, 'Christian' God sent them a terrible tragedy to punish them for their sins of rejecting the 'divine truth', and i'm quite pleased about it really, but I'd better act like I care, or I will be branded 'nasty'.

There was a time at AI when Mods would take care of nonsense like this, so that the rest of us could debate intelligently about the topic of the thread.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #43 of 126
I don't believe I've displayed any sort of "fundamentalism". I wouldn't even know where to start.
post #44 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
There was a time at AI when Mods would take care of nonsense like this, so that the rest of us could debate intelligently about the topic of the thread.

Here we go...The classic right-wing fundie tactic, I don't like your opinion, so I will try to get you banned. An indication I might be close to the truth.

Hey, you don't like my opinion. No shit!
I don't like the majority of yours, No shit!

I don't ask for my critics to be censored.
post #45 of 126
If you've been around since 2001, you should be aware of the Posting guidelines. Read them again. Especially no. 4.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #46 of 126
Really! I am not sure where that came from.

I don't ever recall anyone implying that... well except you.

Nice.
post #47 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Really! I am not sure where that came from.

I don't ever recall anyone implying that... well except you.

Nice.

Thats my opinion, or am I not allowed to have an opinion if certain right-wing-fundies don't like it?
post #48 of 126
You're a joke. 90% of your posts degenerate into name-calling, which wouldn't be so bad if the rest of them made any sense...
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #49 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
You're a joke. 90% of your posts degenerate into name-calling, which wouldn't be so bad if the rest of them made any sense...

gee Frank, dont forget to check out item no 4 of the posting Guidelines.
post #50 of 126
Yeah, that's exactly the same as saying "you're secretly pleased that 100,000 people are dead..."
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #51 of 126
Reposted to proper thread. Ooops.
post #52 of 126
You're more confused than Marc is.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #53 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Yeah, that's exactly the same as saying "you're secretly pleased that 100,000 people are dead..."

I wouldn't doubt that a large proportion of the militant right-wing Christian fundamentalists are pleased that 80% of those that died are Muslims.

Of course, that is just my opinion, rightly or wrongly, and everyone's entitled to disagree. I wonder why 4 years at AI has given me such an insight into the thinking of certain extremist religious groups, that I can make such an accurate statement?

Come on, you'll need to try harder to get me censored. See if you can
post #54 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I am actually curious to the tactics that are used in psychological warfare.

Like in Falluja, when they announced the attack far ahead of the actual attack, to watch movement of the insurgents.

I would be curious to find out how many terrorists were captured just after some of these tapes were released.

It may prove enlightening.

I would have thought they announced it in advance so that as many civilians would leave.
post #55 of 126
Let's keep it together people.

The 'Bin Laden intervenes in Iraq' thread is one line down the page.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #56 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
I would have thought they announced it in advance so that as many civilians would leave.

Yes, they did that. No. I was talking about the instance days before the actual battle, when a general announce that the battle had begun, when it had not. It was psych warfare tactics at play.
post #57 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
You're more confused than Marc is.

No kidding. I have lost my MIND!

Time warp....

Woah.
post #58 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Yes, they did that. No. I was talking about the instance days before the actual battle, when a general announce that the battle had begun, when it had not. It was psych warfare tactics at play.

Maybe, but it might have been a final warning to leave to the civilians who were hanging on in there.
post #59 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Let's keep it together people.

was someone losing it?

(psych warfare is fun, dont you think? entire faiths are based on it....imo.)

another great post by
Mithra.H.Christ
post #60 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Let's keep it together people.

The 'Bin Laden intervenes in Iraq' thread is one line down the page.

Right. I saw the new page, thought that I was posting to the other thread for some reason. What a mind blow.

I knew the other post didn't quite make sense.

Someone slap me.
post #61 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Only to those who believe that the Government is the ultimate arbiter of life.


Bush has the job of managing the country. We hired him with our election and tax dollars. When some big emergency happens most people ( of a management nature ) show up for work and put in a little over time. May be you can understand it in those terms.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #62 of 126
I understand your point and it is a good one.

But my argument here is that the job of President/Prime Minister is 24/7 anyway and this being and Asian event, doesn't require cabinet-level meetings or intervention from the very top of governments outside the region.

Just about anything the Asian countries ask for, within reason, is being provided.
This is why we have emergency response agencies in the first place.

The last thing I want to see in this situation is government agencies in the U.S. and Canada tripping over themselves in a situation like this.

This isn't a local emergency. Bush doesn't need to "rally the troops" by standing with firefighters at Ground Zero, posing with the flag.

Bush can stay at the ranch. Martin could have stayed in Morocco.
If there's some grand decision that they need to make, their Chiefs of Staff will give them the options and the decision can be made.

It's 2004. We already pay insane amounts of money so that government leaders remain accessible wherever they are.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #63 of 126
The "Where's My Leader" angst has apparently gone international now.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #64 of 126
I wonder why it is not possible, to rapidly assemble a co-allition of forces, say 100,000 strong from all nations, fly them all out in the heavy transporters, send machinery, fuel, etc.

First of all we need to send out an expiditionary force to make runways or landing sites, while airdropping water and food to the populations,

when the airstrips are done send in fuel, transport, machinery, temporary barracks and the main batch of troops, these are to create a crude infrastructure so we can send in troops to the damaged sites,

send in troops etc to clear up the physical mess, and distribute emergency aid.

We could have already started clearing up the problem if we wanted to, and we could largely be out within a month, and let the usual agencies continue the work.
post #65 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
Personally I don't think it makes the slightest difference to proceedings whether the president, or prime minister or whatever, is actually at his desk to do duty, however, there is a very real symbolic gesture that makes a world of difference whether one continues to 'holiday' or chose to be 'at work' when the world experiences its worst natural disaster in history.

Sadly, too many 'important' people feel their holiday is more important than the gesture of leading the world through a time of great loss.

PRECISELY! That's the whole point of why I started this thread.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #66 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Bush has the job of managing the country. We hired him with our election and tax dollars. When some big emergency happens most people ( of a management nature ) show up for work and put in a little over time. May be you can understand it in those terms.

EXACTLY! That, however, appears too big a gesture for most in here to understand.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #67 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
I wonder why it is not possible, to rapidly assemble a co-allition of forces, say 100,000 strong from all nations, fly them all out in the heavy transporters, send machinery, fuel, etc.

First of all we need to send out an expiditionary force to make runways or landing sites, while airdropping water and food to the populations,

when the airstrips are done send in fuel, transport, machinery, temporary barracks and the main batch of troops, these are to create a crude infrastructure so we can send in troops to the damaged sites,

send in troops etc to clear up the physical mess, and distribute emergency aid.

We could have already started clearing up the problem if we wanted to, and we could largely be out within a month, and let the usual agencies continue the work.

Because a lot of what you propose is a recipe for chaos.

There's a reason aid workers depend on local authorities first and foremost. They know the people. They know how they think, and how to get to them.

You can't just drop food and water from the sky. You'll create anarchy, looting, gangs, violence and uneven distribution of necessities of life. This could end up making things far worse than they are already.

In this situation, the race is to bury the dead and get clean water out before widespread disease takes hold. Troops can (and are) involved in finding and burying the corpses, but I think your proposal seems a bit militaristic (though well intentioned) for the problem.

Doctors, Grief Counsellors, Tent city builders and food/clothing relief workers are the front line personnel in this situation. Each country already has troops out I'm not sure that army personnel is what they're really asking for.

This isn't on the scale of any humanitarian effort mounted before, and "clearing up the problem" as you put it, will take years. None of the agencies involved will be out within a month.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #68 of 126
But Frank, the point I was trying to make, is that IF we had the resolve, we could put the whole might of the worlds military behind an effort to be in there as quickly as possible, to create a crude infrastructure so we could start delivering aid by the conventional means.

It's well reported on the news, that the place is totally devastated, aid has started arriving, but cannot be distibuted, because there is no infrastructure, no roads, no vehicles, no fuel, no personnel. whats the point in having aid, if it just sits in a hanger at the airport 100 miles away from where it is needed?

And we have been dropping aid by air, for this very reason, so I don't know what your point about anarchy is about?

No doubt if those nasty pinko communists invaded the west coast, you wouldn't spend a week debating the best way to approach the problem, and I doubt the US would form a new military focus group to compete with the regular army, while people were dying.

Im sure 5 million people on the verge of death wouldn't complain that the plan was a bit militaristic. Hell, a novel idea. Execute a rapid militaristic plan with the intent to save lives? We could have largely done this by now, if we had wanted to. But we havn't. We have however spent a week largely debating this, setting up alternative alliance problems, having a 'who can give the most aid $'s' pissing match.

People are dying Frank, or don't you care (unless they're a 5 day old embryo?)

edit: look, even the world acknowledges it needs to speed up the effort?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4136781.stm

what are they doing?, holding a meeting between the 2 major groups. Congrats, 5000 more people just died waiting for someone to 'lead'
post #69 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
But Frank, the point I was trying to make, is that IF we had the resolve, we could put the whole might of the worlds military behind an effort to be in there as quickly as possible, to create a crude infrastructure so we could start delivering aid by the conventional means.

It's well reported on the news, that the place is totally devastated, aid has started arriving, but cannot be distibuted, because there is no infrastructure, no roads, no vehicles, no fuel, no personnel. whats the point in having aid, if it just sits in a hanger at the airport 100 miles away from where it is needed?

And we have been dropping aid by air, for this very reason, so I don't know what your point about anarchy is about?

No doubt if those nasty pinko communists invaded the west coast, you wouldn't spend a week debating the best way to approach the problem, and I doubt the US would form a new military focus group to compete with the regular army, while people were dying.

Im sure 5 million people on the verge of death wouldn't complain that the plan was a bit militaristic. Hell, a novel idea. Execute a rapid militaristic plan with the intent to save lives? We could have largely done this by now, if we had wanted to. But we havn't. We have however spent a week largely debating this, setting up alternative alliance problems, having a 'who can give the most aid $'s' pissing match.

People are dying Frank, or don't you care (unless they're a 5 day old embryo?)

You sir are an idiot. The damage to most mainland areas involves 1/2 mile to 1 mile strip along the coast. everything inland past that point is fine. People need only move in land a wee bit to reach passible roads and much needed help. Your "100 miles away" statement just shows your ignorance.

The areas that are the hardest off are all of the Islands in the area. Hell, some near the quake are feared lost forever - under the briny sea. Some are not even big enough to land a cargo jet on, some are only accessible by boat.

Those who are dead are dead, that happened in minutes of the disaster. It's a matter of cleanup and rebuilding now. The people most at risk are the rescue workers themselves, now.

I saw an interview with a doctor from "Doctors without Borders" last night. Despite the reporter trying to paint a grim and ominous picture, about disease she continually said the situation was easily manageable.

Mark you are handily living up to all kinds of stereotypes. It's a little comical.

And frank, I do agree with mark in a sense, most areas will be back to business as usual in very quick order, even without a large scale military deployment by the US.
post #70 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
You sir are an idiot. The damage to most mainland areas involves 1/2 mile to 1 mile strip along the coast. everything inland past that point is fine. People need only move in land a wee bit to reach passible roads and much needed help. Your "100 miles away" statement just shows your ignorance.

And frank, I do agree with mark in a sense, most areas will be back to business as usual in very quick order, even without a large scale military deployment by the US.

Yes, but there isn't an airstrip every 5 miles a mile in from the sea front. And It was reported yesterday that there is Aid in aircraft hangers just sitting there because there is a petrol shortage (Indonesia is rationing petrol for this very reason), no distribution vehicles, and lack of personnel.

I do NOT believe most areas will be "back in business as usual in very quick order". Not fucking likely, and I was suggesting a large scale multilateral military deployment if you recall.
post #71 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
The people most at risk are the rescue workers themselves, now.

Come on, no one can be that dumb. You're just humouring me...Oh wait. You are "s.e.r.i.o.u.s"

post #72 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
Yes, but there isn't an airstrip every 5 miles a mile in from the sea front. And It was reported yesterday that there is Aid in aircraft hangers just sitting there because there is a petrol shortage (Indonesia is rationing petrol for this very reason), no distribution vehicles, and lack of personnel.

I do NOT believe most areas will be "back in business as usual in very quick order". Not fucking likely, and I was suggesting a large scale multilateral military deployment if you recall.

Fuel rationing happens here even when a major city gets snowed in, stop the drama.

Here let me illustrate, since you have jumped on the panic wagon:

Airports inside India:

http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/indi...-airports.html

Major railways:

http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/indi...ailway-map.htm

Major Highways:

http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/indi...al-highway.htm

I can't find a map of indonesia, but there are 453 airports there according to 2000 survey.

6,458 km of railways and

342,700 km of Highway there

Sri Lanka:

15 airports, which would be one about every 65 miles, according to my math.

So as we can see, the infrastructure is there to provide relief. Some areas are worse than others, obviously the Islands fall into that slot, but the larger Island nations have plenty of means to provide the needed aid domestically.

I am not against anyone throwing in their help, but Mark, you are buying into the media hype. Life will go on and the necessary repairs will be made. Life is unpredictable, and this time the US had nothing to do with it whatsoever, so I can see why you feel the need to pin something on Bushie. He is no longer king of death and destruction, nature now holds the crown for this year.. Although I am sure that has been true for many a year.

Hey if it makes you feel better about the situation...
post #73 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Fuel rationing happens here even when a major city gets snowed in, stop the drama.

Here let me illustrate, since you have jumped on the panic wagon:

Airports inside India:

http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/indi...-airports.html

Major railways:

http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/indi...ailway-map.htm

Major Highways:

http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/indi...al-highway.htm

I can't find a map of indonesia, but there are 453 airports there according to 2000 survey.

6,458 km of railways and

342,700 km of Highway there

Sri Lanka:

15 airports, which would be one about every 65 miles, according to my math.

So as we can see, the infrastructure is there to provide relief. Some areas are worse than others, obviously the Islands fall into that slot, but the larger Island nations have plenty of means to provide the needed aid domestically.

I am not against anyone throwing in their help, but Mark, you are buying into the media hype. Life will go on and the necessary repairs will be made. Life is unpredictable, and this time the US had nothing to do with it whatsoever, so I can see why you feel the need to pin something on Bushie. He is no longer king of death and destruction, nature now holds the crown for this year.. Although I am sure that has been true for many a year.

Hey if it makes you feel better about the situation...

perhaps you'd quote me once where I've said that Bush is the fault for this natural disaster. I have said the the Prez and Prime ministers should "appear" to take it seriously though. Perhaps it's that you don't like?

Gone into "Rebublican-smear-mode-talking-points" mode again?

I see you are viewing this, just like you viewed prison torture as playful college hazing. There are 125,000 dead Naples, thats 35 attacks on the scale of the world trade centre tragedy.
post #74 of 126
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #75 of 126

Gee a New York Times Editorial criticizing the United States and Bush specifically...hard to imagine that.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #76 of 126
Oh my gosh.. look at these terrible pictures of Bush's news conference from Texas.





Should we really discuss how delusional this thread topic is now. Hey, look they have a blue curtain backdrop, a couple of flags and a podium with the seal in Texas as well. How could anyone possibly lead from there?!?

What's next for the nimrods around here? Bush not leading because he wore blue tie instead of red?

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #77 of 126
You know nature has been totally incompetent in the planning of this offensive. There wasn't even approval from the UN. Total disregard for the safety of innocent life.

A totally unprovoked and unilateral attack.

There was no effort by this wave to gain the support of the world community. How can anyone respect nature anymore?

I am starting a movement to replace mother nature.

WHO"S WITH ME?

OUT THE DOOR IN 2004
post #78 of 126
A guess one good editorial deserves another...

NY Post

Quote:
And couldn't the editorialists at The New York Times have forborne even just for a week making use of the tsunami to complain about U.S. government spending on "development aid"?

Development aid is the blanket term for American grant money handed out to other countries, supposedly to help their economies grow. Development aid has nothing nothing to do with what has happened.

The aid at issue now is disaster relief.

Secretary of State Colin Powell found himself in the position of having to remind the world that over the past four years the United States has provided more such aid than all other nations on the planet combined.

Using the deaths of innocents to further a political agenda, but then nothing is above the desperation of the left nowadays.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #79 of 126
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Gee a New York Times Editorial criticizing the United States and Bush specifically...hard to imagine that.

Nick

" The messenger must die " Yeah, yeah, yeah!

You're just right and everyone else is wrong.

Whatever!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #80 of 126
Define this "everyone else" you're talking about.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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