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What is your plan?

post #1 of 81
Thread Starter 
Most of you have nothing but bad things to say about the US Gov policy in the World. You consider the President to be an idiot at best. Here is my question for you: If you were in charge, what would you do to change US international policy? Your plan needs to include realistic consideration of the ramifications of your actions. For example, if you say, "just get out of Iraq", discuss what you think will transpire as a result.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #2 of 81
why dont we hear 'your plan' first...oh wait, you've been conditioned in such a way as to worship the toilet George.W.Bush sits on.

so we know your plan.

division, polarize, seperate, lie, mislead, short-sightedness, dollars, greed, inward-looking, fear, terrorist-threats, wars, oil, extreme right-wingism, fundamentalism, anti-science,

multiply those values by -1, and you have my plan.
post #3 of 81
Thread Starter 
About as defined as Kerry's plan. Hah !
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post #4 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
About as defined as Kerry's plan. Hah !

seeing as you have a problem with basic math i'll type it out for you. Are they teaching math is "a deceit of Satan" to the home-schoolers these days?

[division, polarize, seperate, lie, mislead, short-sightedness, dollars, greed, inward-looking, fear, terrorist-threats, wars, oil, extreme right-wingism, fundamentalism, anti-science,] * -1 =

unify, embrace, unite, truth, honesty, big-picture, sharing, forward-looking, understanding, realism, talking, renewable-energy, centralism, toleration, respect, established facts.

Probably not a great plan, seeing as I devised it in 5 minutes, but I think I'm doing better than 4 years of Bush.
post #5 of 81
My plan would be to ship your bravado ass to Iraq to see if you can walk the walk and get a "tiny" dose of reality in the process.
post #6 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
My plan would be to ship your bravado ass to Iraq to see if you can walk the walk and get a "tiny" dose of reality in the process.

i second the resolution, Gilsch gets my vote
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #7 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
i second the resolution, Gilsch gets my vote

Hear, hear!
post #8 of 81
vote no 3.
post #9 of 81
I don't think the iraqis deserve it. Honestly...
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post #10 of 81
No way. If anybody gets shipped out of here based on their annoyance factor then MarcUK wins outright.

I'd pay good money to see him debate that 'sun god' drivel anywhere in Iraq.
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post #11 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
No way. If anybody gets shipped out of here based on their annoyance factor then MarcUK wins outright.

I'd pay good money to see him debate that 'sun god' drivel anywhere in Iraq.

Gee frank, you might want to check out item no 4 of the posting guidelines perhaps we could be banned together!

the truth hurts Frank. It's only drivel until you open your eyes to all the evidence and stop cherry-picking the bits that suit you. You seem to have a habit of bringing up the sun-god stuff in the most bizarre of places, are you in torment with the truth?
post #12 of 81
Sun-god? I have to ask, because I an truly intrigued.

Anyway....

I think CM is asking what you would do different.

I'll start: (I don't know how feasible these are)

1. Totally cut off and patrol heavily all borders in Iraq. Stop the influx of insurgents from Iran and Syria.

2. Punish Iran and Syria for their support. Strategic bombings and sanctions and even blockades if necessary. Force them to crack down.

3. Declare marshal law anywhere that shows patterns of trouble in Iraq.

4. As additional Iraqi army personnel are trained pull out that many US military, or redeploy them to border duty. With the goal of total withdrawal by 2010. Force Iraq to police itself.

5. Form a sort of ME security counsel of trusted nations. Have them commit forces, intel and whatnot. This EU type of union will be consulted by the US before any further action in the region. This entity must have some real muscle so it can influence rogue or stubborn nations in a big way. Force the ME to police itself.

I got more but it's a start...
post #13 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Sun-god? I have to ask, because I an truly intrigued.

Anyway....

I think CM is asking what you would do different.

I'll start: (I don't know how feasible these are)

1. Totally cut off and patrol heavily all borders in Iraq. Stop the influx of insurgents from Iran and Syria.

2. Punish Iran and Syria for their support. Strategic bombings and sanctions and even blockades if necessary. Force them to crack down.

3. Declare marshal law anywhere that shows patterns of trouble in Iraq.

4. As additional Iraqi army personnel are trained pull out that many US military, or redeploy them to border duty. With the goal of total withdrawal by 2010. Force Iraq to police itself.

5. Form a sort of ME security counsel of trusted nations. Have them commit forces, intel and whatnot. This EU type of union will be consulted by the US before any further action in the region. This entity must have some real muscle so it can influence rogue or stubborn nations in a big way. Force the ME to police itself.

I got more but it's a start...

1) you have 5 million men at your disposal? Isn't it about time to admit, that the vast majority of them are the Iraqi's anyway and are already in the damn country.
2) that should persuade them to help out, geez, thats a good way to liberate 100 million arabs to march straight across the border and kick your ass.
3) that will win the hearts and minds of the iraqi's,
4) until they have enough might to kick your american asses right out the country, long before 2010.
5) except they all hate you, you cant trust any of them, they wont accept orders from the US, they wont give you credible intel, and if it had real muscle, they would again, kick your asses right out the region.

great plans, can't wait to hear the rest.
post #14 of 81
Since the Repubs on the board are always kind enough to offer us Lefties some advice, I thought I'd return the favor:

(1) Remember to continue to distort the truth - it is essential to your continued success - like saying there was "multilateral inaction" in the Balkans and Afghanistan. _Do ignore the fact that Bush has done nothing in Darfur. _Be sure to gloss over Bush's promise not to send our military in an exercise of "nation building" and to have a "humble" foreign policy. _And by all means ignore the fact that it was Bush's disastrous decision to initiate the Iraq Debacle that divided that global alliance in the War on Terror. _Never remember that a substantial percentage of Bush voters believed that Saddam was behind 9/11 - ONLY remember Atta in Prague when convenient. _As in all things, Cheney shows the way.

(2) By all means demonize our European allies at every opportunity. _I mean, we only won two world wars and the Cold War with them. _What have you done for me lately right? _Of course, always remember to make fun of the French - freedom fries are always a winner.

(3) Do continue to accuse the Left of "Blaming America First" - even when the Left is blaming Republicans, not America. _Never retire the phrase "emboldening the terrorists" - you make McCarthy proud.

(4) Do continue demonizing the UN - it's worked for more than half a century - why stop now?

(5) Do continue calling Democrats "communists" and anti-American. _It is so in keeping with the John Birch tradition of the Republican Party. _Do ignore the racists and the haters the GOP does business with politically. _No need for any actual soul searching as to hypocrisy. Never purge one bigot from your ranks ever. _Remember two words - politically correct. Shuts the critics up every time.

(6) Do argue that the Pentagon budget is actually a form of foreign aid, proving the US is the most generous nation in history. _It ain't cheap being the world's policemen, and the US gets NOTHING out of it at all. _Remember that the Pentagon budget will outstrip all foreign aid given by anybody for the last decade. _Case closed.

And by all means, deliver unintentional irony like this:

Action and results, not rhetoric and intentions, are what matter. Cease blaming others for declining popularity.

Ignore the fact that Bush has taken us from record surplus to record deficit, has a disaster in Iraq, and has made the US the most detested nation on Earth. _Do blame the Left and the Media for not covering the "good news" as the cause of this decline in American popularity.

No need to thank me.

P.S. Never forget it is always Clinton's fault and remember Poland.
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post #15 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Since the Repubs on the board are always kind enough to offer us Lefties some advice, I thought I'd return the favor:

(1) Remember to continue to distort the truth - it is essential to your continued success - like saying there was "multilateral inaction" in the Balkans and Afghanistan. _Do ignore the fact that Bush has done nothing in Darfur. _Be sure to gloss over Bush's promise not to send our military in an exercise of "nation building" and to have a "humble" foreign policy. _And by all means ignore the fact that it was Bush's disastrous decision to initiate the Iraq Debacle that divided that global alliance in the War on Terror. _Never remember that a substantial percentage of Bush voters believed that Saddam was behind 9/11 - ONLY remember Atta in Prague when convenient. _As in all things, Cheney shows the way.

(2) By all means demonize our European allies at every opportunity. _I mean, we only won two world wars and the Cold War with them. _What have you done for me lately right? _Of course, always remember to make fun of the French - freedom fries are always a winner.

(3) Do continue to accuse the Left of "Blaming America First" - even when the Left is blaming Republicans, not America. _Never retire the phrase "emboldening the terrorists" - you make McCarthy proud.

(4) Do continue demonizing the UN - it's worked for more than half a century - why stop now?

(5) Do continue calling Democrats "communists" and anti-American. _It is so in keeping with the John Birch tradition of the Republican Party. _Do ignore the racists and the haters the GOP does business with politically. _No need for any actual soul searching as to hypocrisy. Never purge one bigot from your ranks ever. _Remember two words - politically correct. Shuts the critics up every time.

(6) Do argue that the Pentagon budget is actually a form of foreign aid, proving the US is the most generous nation in history. _It ain't cheap being the world's policemen, and the US gets NOTHING out of it at all. _Remember that the Pentagon budget will outstrip all foreign aid given by anybody for the last decade. _Case closed.

And by all means, deliver unintentional irony like this:

Action and results, not rhetoric and intentions, are what matter. Cease blaming others for declining popularity.

Ignore the fact that Bush has taken us from record surplus to record deficit, has a disaster in Iraq, and has made the US the most detested nation on Earth. _Do blame the Left and the Media for not covering the "good news" as the cause of this decline in American popularity.

No need to thank me.

P.S. Never forget it is always Clinton's fault and remember Poland.

A little anger left-over from the election?

Rhetoric much?
post #16 of 81
Common Man: Your leader refused to listen to voices of reason before he attacked Iraq. Now he refuses to swallow his pride. Ask GWB to approach the international community and ask for dialog on fixing Iraq.

NaplesX: Stop playing battlefield simulation video games. I recommend WoW and EQ2. They are easy on the brain and don't pretend to be reality.
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post #17 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
My plan would be to ship your bravado ass to Iraq to see if you can walk the walk and get a "tiny" dose of reality in the process.


Well that was my idea also! Like I've always said he likes Bush attacking things sooooooo much. Put him on the front line and let him see the real thing.

While we're at it maybe Naples would like to go also.
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post #18 of 81
Thread Starter 
The left has nothing constructive to say. What a shock!
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #19 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The left has nothing constructive to say. What a shock!

No, they're just fed up of answering a troll who can't think, listen or see.

And I'm not left btw.

But don't let that change anything.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #20 of 81
What's 'left'? Is it being liberal? Democrat? Reasonable? Compassionate?
post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
What's 'left'? Is it being liberal? Democrat? Reasonable? Compassionate?

Anything they want it to mean - it's not descriptive (not that they are capable of an intellectual critique of the term anyway) but rather is intended to encapsulate all the things they fear, or in their words, 'evil' - ie, ideas their attenuated consciousness cannot assimilate and are therefore 'other' and hence, 'evil' a priori.

Before they did it with ideas they used to do it with people. Still do where such racism is acceptable (ie Arabs).

I think they mean it as an insult.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #22 of 81
Thread Starter 
No, the truth is you guys have no idea what to do. You sit in your corners and whine about evil Bush and the evil fundies and oil and racism and bla bla bla.

It was right to invade Iraq. The mistake was in preparing for the post-invasion. The US Gov made a huge mistake in not having the will to crush the insurgency at its inception. Everyday the insurgency grows and gets harder to stop. Everyday we wait to crush the insurgency; it will be that much harder to crush. We have two choices. (1) We leave Iraq and let the chips fall where they may. This would be a huge mistake because Iraq and perhaps even the region would most likely fall into the hands of Islamo fascists. (2) We close the borders and have an all out assault on the insurgency. This will be ugly and will kill a lot of innocent people, but each day we wait, the picture gets uglier. In addition, supply lines from Syria and Iran need to be shut down. Militarily if necessary.

Ugly idea I know, but the problem is not going to go await and will in fact continue to grow if not checked.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #23 of 81
It's just on continuos loop - like a robot they perfected but forgot to include ears and a data processing mechanism....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #24 of 81
Common Man, when you're ready to join the army, and sacrifice your life in the persuit of honouring the lies of your president, just be sure to let us know.

At least have the 'sense' to realize that if you've stubbornly made your mind up about the world, before you're an adult, before you've left home, before you've fucked, before you seen a few friends die, before your kids were born - then you are more 'fucked' than anyone.

Short of a miracle, there is no answer to iraq, and blowing even more crap out of it in another act of immature juvenile bravado isn't going to help.
post #25 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
Common Man, when you're ready to join the army, and sacrifice your life in the persuit of honouring the lies of your president, just be sure to let us know.

At least have the 'sense' to realize that if you've stubbornly made your mind up about the world, before you're an adult, before you've left home, before you've fucked, before you seen a few friends die, before your kids were born - then you are more 'fucked' than anyone.

Short of a miracle, there is no answer to iraq, and blowing even more crap out of it in another act of immature juvenile bravado isn't going to help.

By that measure we can assume that you are willing to take up arms against the ideology that you so vehemently detest and verbally protest, right?

So until you are willing to do that, by your own yardstick, you should not be taken seriously.

Or are we talking about a double standard, here?
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
By that measure we can assume that you are willing to take up arms against the ideology that you so vehemently detest and verbally protest, right?

So until you are willing to do that, by your own yardstick, you should not be taken seriously.

Or are we talking about a double standard, here?

personally, I would happily take up arms, and shoot every motherfucker fundamentalist dead on the spot - from all religions. But you miss the point (again) Common Man is advocating mass destruction, so it is honourable, if he feels this way, that he be prepared to sacrifice himself, along with millions of other, including friends and family to achieve it. I am not. I intend to take over the world with words alone.

However I know that is not the right thing to do, and while it would make me feel better for a while, it would be a huge tragedy, from which there is no going back if I was wrong.

Education, tolerance, discussion, and dialog, is the only long term solution to a huge number of problems, it's something humans never ever learn. When you take away all the crap, every human on this planet basically wants exactly the same things. There will be arguments, flame-fests, death-threats, "old-photos!", along the way - so be it.

Blowing the crap out of adversaries, is a short term solution, if at all.

(and besides, there isn't a legal mechanism I can join to blow your ass away )!
post #27 of 81
Post some frigin' ideas, instead of constant criticisms.

I'll post some more to get the ball rolling again:

1. Start a program that brings groups of representative Iraqi's to the US or other democratic country, to show them there is more than what they know in Iraq and what they are fighting for. The people have been exposed to so much strife it could inspire some hope.

2. Use the latest massive destruction against muslim nations to convince terrorists that nature is the infidel, then use suicide bombers to blow up mountains and obstacles while building new roads and airports in undeveloped areas.

3. Move Israel to an underwater city in the atlantic ocean. The Real Atlantis.

4. Introduce peanut butter to the middle east. Or perhaps KFC.
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
personally, I would happily take up arms, and shoot every motherfucker fundamentalist dead on the spot - from all religions.

However I know that is not the right thing to do, and while it would make me feel better for a while, it would be a huge tragedy, from which there is no going back if I was wrong.

Education, tolerance, discussion, and dialog, is the only long term solution to a huge number of problems, it's something humans never ever learn. When you take away all the crap, every human on this planet basically wants exactly the same things. There will be arguments, flame-fests, death-threats, "old-photos!", along the way - so be it.

Blowing the crap out of adversaries, is a short term solution, if at all.

(and besides, there isn't a legal mechanism I can join to blow your ass away )!

So fine, I think we all can agree with the premise of that post.

But, you seem to overlook the fact that "Blowing the crap out of adversaries" as you put it has been a long term plan amongst the islamo-thugs.

I would hope, that in your effort to change thinking, you frequent the islamic web boards and condemn that segment of society also.

Of course we come right back around to the question:

How do you "tolerate" someone that is trying to kill you?
post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
How do you "tolerate" someone that is trying to kill you?

Ask someone who lived in Fallujah - went it still existed....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Ask someone who lived in Fallujah - went it still existed....

You are frighteningly short sighted and and narrow minded for a "progressive".

You are on a different wavelength. You're talking past. This thread is talking future. Dwell if you must, but you are soiling the "progressive" moniker.
post #31 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX


Of course we come right back around to the question:

How do you "tolerate" someone that is trying to kill you?

But you're only looking at the problem from your own perspective. Why should they 'tolerate' someone who is trying to kill them?

Both sides in this are in a whipped up frenzy to fear each other. In your routine everyday life, do you think about killing Muslims? I'd hope not. Does Joe Muslim, in his everyday struggle for existance in the desert have nothing better do do than dream up ways of killing Americans? No way.

When corrupt people of power use their influence to persuade the masses they are under attack, all hell breaks loose, fear, ignorance, hate, Common Man bravado, war, pain, destruction, suffering.

When you accept this, you are but a tool in some nasty egotistical bastards quest for power.
post #32 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
You are frighteningly short sighted ---snip---

You're just frightening....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #33 of 81
How to fix the world in three hundred words or less:

Take, forcibly if necessary, newborns from all over the world and randomly distribute them to the parents whose newborns were just taken. Accompanying the newborns should be information about their native country/culture and the explicit requirement (upon pain of death) that the new parents inform the child of his or her cultural past. Do this for three generations. World = teh fixed.
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post #34 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
But you're only looking at the problem from your own perspective. Why should they 'tolerate' someone who is trying to kill them?

Both sides in this are in a whipped up frenzy to fear each other. In your routine everyday life, do you think about killing Muslims? I'd hope not. Does Joe Muslim, in his everyday struggle for existance in the desert have nothing better do do than dream up ways of killing Americans? No way.

When corrupt people of power use their influence to persuade the masses they are under attack, all hell breaks loose, fear, ignorance, hate, Common Man bravado.

When you accept this, you are but a tool in some nasty egotistical bastards quest for power.

You are, of course ignoring a whole lot of things.

Muslim countries teach "America and Israel are Evil" in there schools, dude! What planet are you on?

I was never taught that Muslims are evil. Were you?

This, WW3 is a war on terrorism, not Muslims. However, it is no coincidence that the majority of terrorists are Muslim. You do understand that the US seeks to kill killers, don't you? We are not waging war on say Indonesia or India?

So you are completely right about the education thing. The current upswing of terrorists relates totally to what they were taught growing up.

I think you have turned this into a religious war, when that is not a true representation of the situation.
post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I was never taught that Muslims are evil. Were you?

Where did you learn it then ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
You are, of course ignoring a whole lot of things.

Muslim countries teach "America and Israel are Evil" in there schools, dude! What planet are you on?

I was never taught that Muslims are evil. Were you?

This, WW3 is a war on terrorism, not Muslims. However, it is no coincidence that the majority of terrorists are Muslim. You do understand that the US seeks to kill killers, don't you? We are not waging war on say Indonesia or India?

So you are completely right about the education thing. The current upswing of terrorists relates totally to what they were taught growing up.

I think you have turned this into a religious war, when that is not a true representation of the situation.

The truly preventative tactict would be to kill the killer's mothers...
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post #37 of 81
Thread Starter 
"Common Man bravado" ? Whatever.

I find no pleasure in the solutions I have suggested. However, I see the reality and understand that action must be taken even if that action is ugly. This is not about "saving face" or "winning " or "getting over" or whatever you want to call it. This is about finding a solution to a huge problem in Iraq.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #38 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
How to fix the world in three hundred words or less:

Take, forcibly if necessary, newborns from all over the world and randomly distribute them to the parents whose newborns were just taken. Accompanying the newborns should be information about their native country/culture and the explicit requirement (upon pain of death) that the new parents inform the child of his or her cultural past. Do this for three generations. World = teh fixed.

Not a bad idea. But instead of threatening the parents life. Promise that if they care for the new child their child will be returned on his/her 13th birthday.

Promise and hope are more powerful than threats.
post #39 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX

We are not waging war on say Indonesia or India?

WHY, exactly are we waging a fucking war in Iraq?
post #40 of 81
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
"Common Man bravado" ? Whatever.

I find no pleasure in the solutions I have suggested. However, I see the reality and understand that action must be taken even if that action is ugly. This is not about "saving face" or "winning " or "getting over" or whatever you want to call it. This is about finding a solution to a huge problem in Iraq.

why don't you post your plan then?
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