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Mac mini misses its target consumer - Page 3

post #81 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
OK! LAY OFF THE VIDEO CARD
.... A 9200 is the perfect match for this thing, most displays that will be put on this thing cannot do more than 1600x1200, most people will use 1280x1024 and some even 1024x768, the 9200 will eat right through that without breaking a sweat, and will have room left over for core*.

I don't think most people will push the rez even that high. Most non-tech people I know have their monitors at 800x700 or 1024x768. Generally it's at whatever it was when it came out of the box. My parents have a 17" monitor. Dad keeps his desktop at 1024x768 and it drives mom nuts to use it without changing over to her's because she's used to 800x600. If you're not doing high-end stuff like 3d modeling and you're not playing the latest greatest game a 32 9200 is great and will be for awhile.

I myself have a 19" and just now pushed it up to 1280x1024 because that's what was recommended for LightWave.
post #82 of 290
Leaving out the keyboard and mouse was just plain stupid, there's no way around that. If the target market consists of switchars, then factor in that many of them are going to have a cheap POS PS2 keyboard littered with windows keys, and they're going to get completely confused the second they look for a mac specific key.

Also, none of them will have access to a proper one button mouse. STOP LAUGHING! Serious. They're going to bring the assisine right click habit over to the mac (where it might be even less consistent than it is in PC-land ere long.) IF you don't make sure EVERY single mac starts off with one-button mousing goodness, it won't be long before developers start futzing about with a good thing.

This is bad bad bad, even apart from the generally poor impression made by excluding a $3 part without which you just can't use the machine. Dumb.
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post #83 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by iDave
The RAM issue is the only sticking point in my opinion. It made me think twice before ordering mine with 512MB. I'm sure in a few months, I'll have to haul it to the shop to get them to install a Gigabyte stick. I'm guessing this Mac has "thermal paste" like the iMac 2, preventing consumer access.

Thats the biggest problem I have with it also. One RAM slot? Thats ridiculous. If it came with only 256 Mb RAM and had another slot that wouldnt be so terrible, but even 512 Mb RAM can be eaten up after a few hours online or doing other things. 256 + 512 is good.
So we have to toss the 256Mb stick if we want to upgrade? Thats just unacceptable, IMHO
post #84 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SQUÅSH
The market is for those wanting to try OS X..to switch. For mom and dad that are sick of the new dell seeming slow after 2 months with adware spyware viruses. The ones that are tired of having to do the extra work just to keep her running.

It's a perfect way to just unplug the box and plug in the new one to the monitor and keyboard. Oh and please with the keyboards not being usb....sell them that adapter for $20 or whatever, or are you that bad at selling pc's?

I think they are the perfect way to get those outsiders looking in. Wanting to take a chance but not a costly chance like that new PC, because bottomline is even PC users like cheap, but most spend about a grand. Why, because

I just don't know where you get off bashing the least expensive mac EVER. You got that..EVER

Read this slowly so you'll understand it. You dont add an adapter to a keyboard or mouse and it works. If a P/S 2 peripheral doesnt come with a USB adapter it wont work with one.
Also, most customers have no idea how their keyboard and mouse are hooked up. "is it a round port or does it look like this"? I don't know. Thats what dealers are going to go through.
Cheap is fine-it isn't complete
post #85 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ijerry
You are off. Apple is sitting around the low 20's (%) for profit margin, but spending a buttload of money for R&D and application development, so their margins are null...

now Dell Has some of the highest profit margins and the lowest cost in the industry according to the Forbes link from may 04' most recent I could find in a quick search. Apple is not Dell, and they could never be because they actually produce something. I guess you couldn't understand that. I asked you for numbers and all you can do is say go and look. I already know, you do not, you are just spouting off whatever comes into that tiny closed brain of yours and not looking at the real facts of industry.

end of line...

I am in the industry and I guarantee I know more than you do.
If you read my posts all the way through without getting your panties in a bunch you would see that I said that Apple would be better off saving on the R and D and just build a simple tower that for the same price would have not only a keyboard and mouse, but 512Mb RAM-at the same profit margin or better.
post #86 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
I really wonder what their cost is on the Mac mini. I mean, the thing has no hinges, latches, complex molds or anything. On top of all that, shipping costs must be a complete joke - 12 of those things must take up the same space as a regular P.C. same goes for the iPod shuffle.

It probably cost them the most to figure out how to cool it properly. I have a feeling all they really did was use laptop components to make it that small.
post #87 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc


Most folks who have been around here, will remember how many times on those boards have request such a computer.

A screenless cheap computer. Appe did it. If you want really cheap memory upgrade : forgot Apple. Same for the keyboard and the mouse.

Personally I am very happy that they do not include a mouse and a keyboard. The keyboard and mouse market for the mac is very small , thus third party companies where not interested in it. With the Mac mini, more companies will be interested in it. At the end we will have much more choice, when it comes to keyboard and mouses.

That would be nice. I can't stand Apples mouse and Im not crazy about their keyboard either. I still use the Apple Extended Keyboard and old Apple mouse, which were and are far superior to anything out there.
post #88 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
Only the worst sort of apologist would defend the lack of basic input devices -- keyboard and mouse should be included no matter what, especially since 97.3328946571038% of keyboards and mice are PS2 and not USB.

Needs two user serviceable RAM slots, and better HDD options as well. I hope they weren't so daft as to use 2.5" drives!

They could have made it a little bigger to address these concerns. At 8x8x2 instead of 6.5x6.5x2, it would have more room to add features at the same cost.

Kill the eMac in the consumer space and offer an non-neutered mini.

Well said, although the hard drives dont bother me, one slot for RAM is just unbelievable.
post #89 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
OK! LAY OFF THE VIDEO CARD
the 9200 isnt great, but damn, have you used it side by side with intel 810? that is the sort of thing that the would be switchers will have. In my case, a geforce 2, A 9200 is the perfect match for this thing, most displays that will be put on this thing cannot do more than 1600x1200, most people will use 1280x1024 and some even 1024x768, the 9200 will eat right through that without breaking a sweat, and will have room left over for core*.

The thing is great if there is one thing that was left out was a ps/2 to usb adapter for keyboards, I know they are cheap but they add to the "it all works out of the box" thing that apple is known for. Sadly, most PCs still use PS/2 keyboards, but mice are universaly usb now

A PS2 to USB adapter wont necessarily work with a keyboard or mouse that didnt come with one.
post #90 of 290
You know you don't need to make 10 posts in a row?

Secondly, why are you so pissed about this Mac? It's cheap and most people care about price over specs.
post #91 of 290
Having only 2 USB ports is just idiotic. One for the keyboard, one for the mouse and waht do you have left? No ports for memory sticks, webcams, scanners etc...

Baaaaaad mistake Apple.
post #92 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG3
You know you don't need to make 10 posts in a row?

Secondly, why are you so pissed about this Mac? It's cheap and most people care about price over specs.

Why do you think I'm pissed? I'm not, just dissapointed.
Apple always puts in as little as possible. 1 RAM slot is ridiculous.
Start building this puppy up like it should be and its not really a $500 computer.

And I made 10 posts in a row because I was responding to 10 posts all at the same time.
post #93 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by Kink
Having only 2 USB ports is just idiotic. One for the keyboard, one for the mouse and waht do you have left? No ports for memory sticks, webcams, scanners etc...

Baaaaaad mistake Apple.

You could use bluetooth, and the keyboard has a usb port on it, so you can connect the mouse to that, but it still leaves 1 port. And depending on the monitor, you could use that as a hub, or you can buy a hub. Though by the end it seems like a bit too much has to be bought afterwards. The 256 I don't think is that bad, considering the mini is aimed towards the people who want it as a sub computer, or just go on the internet. If they want the power, they should get an e or i mac.
post #94 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by john.outwater
You could use bluetooth, and the keyboard has a usb port on it, so you can connect the mouse to that, but it still leaves 1 port. And depending on the monitor, you could use that as a hub, or you can buy a hub. Though by the end it seems like a bit too much has to be bought afterwards. The 256 I don't think is that bad, considering the mini is aimed towards the people who want it as a sub computer, or just go on the internet. If they want the power, they should get an e or i mac.

256 isnt even good enough for the internet. I upgraded my iMac G3 to 576Mb and it really needed it.

It would be nice not to have to use a usb hub
post #95 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG3
...
Secondly, why are you so pissed about this Mac? It's cheap and most people care about price over specs.

Agreed.

Dont get me wrong, I am just as much of a spec whore as anyone else on this forum, but look, for $500, you are getting a 2 year old PM, sure it is smaller, and not expandable, but it is $500 - I see people all the time talk about how they are on like 400 mhz sawtooths, and now for $500, you can get something that blows that clean away, and just plugs right into your existing I/O...what is bad about that?
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post #96 of 290
steve666's points are well taken, and there are several others. The simple fact is that once you plunge into the wild world of Windows peripherals, you're suddenly dealing with a lot more legacy and complexity than you'd like.

A PS/2-to-USB converter actually doing translation. It's not DVI->VGA (trivial, because DVI carries a VGA signal). It's a translation, and those will fail on some peripherals. Consumers will not necessarily know whether it's a PS/2 peripheral, either. The green plug went into the green outlet in the back, or their son assembled it for them, etc.

Two USB ports will be used up by the USB keyboard and the USB mouse. Apple even shows this on their site for the Mac mini, but they don't seem to think that it's significant that there's no accomodation for a printer, or scanner, or camera with a USB connection, or... ?!

I don't consider the size or the expandability to be issues. The size is actually a bonus from the point of view of just picking the machine up, and it's likely to inspire major geek lust (geeks are specifically targeted by this machine- look at the pitch about developers hooking it up to a KVM switch). This actually exacerbates the problem with needing adapters, though, because the purchase loses some of its appeal when you have to look up and pick up a whole bunch of niggling little adapters and hubs that you might or might not need, and bury your cute little Mac in a mass of cables and plugs.

I actually hope this machine doesn't appear in Target or elsewhere, as some people here are saying, because it will require some handholding. There will definitely be a step three in a significant number of cases, and possibly steps four and five, too.

Apple will have to solve the monitor problem, too, one way or another. I've seen a number of people leave to buy a computer, firmly decided that they will keep their monitor, and come home with a new monitor, and a new printer besides. And a new keyboard and mouse, too. Apple's adopted the trick of luring people in with a stripped down solution and selling them up, so they'd better be ready to follow through (might be a great way to promote the iMac, actually: "Or, you can just pick up that box, take it home, and you're all set."). The odds of people walking out with Cinema Displays are... low.

This is definitely a significant paradigm shift for Apple on several fronts. It will be interesting to see how well prepared they are for this new paradigm. If they think it's enough to just offer this little box, they're in for a surprise.

The most natural market for this machine is the geek/prosumer, actually, given that the lack of any peripherals means that you do have to have some sense of what's required, and what works, and how to integrate the Mac mini into their existing setups. If the mini's sales reflect that, it won't be the "marketshare Mac" after all; or, I should say, it will only be to the extent that geeks buy these things for their families and friends, buy the needed adapters and hubs, and set them all up.

Overall, the iMac remains uncontested as the best consumer solution that Apple offers. The Mac mini might work as a way to convince people of that, who knows?
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post #97 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Agreed.

Dont get me wrong, I am just as much of a spec whore as anyone else on this forum, but look, for $500, you are getting a 2 year old PM, sure it is smaller, and not expandable, but it is $500 - I see people all the time talk about how they are on like 400 mhz sawtooths, and now for $500, you can get something that blows that clean away, and just plugs right into your existing I/O...what is bad about that?

dunno... i do know that's it's more than 3 times more powerfull than the machine i typing right now... and that was my main computer till halfway november 2004.
maybe it will help apple sales in japan. they love cute things.
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post #98 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Agreed.

Dont get me wrong, I am just as much of a spec whore as anyone else on this forum, but look, for $500, you are getting a 2 year old PM, sure it is smaller, and not expandable, but it is $500 - I see people all the time talk about how they are on like 400 mhz sawtooths, and now for $500, you can get something that blows that clean away, and just plugs right into your existing I/O...what is bad about that?

absolutely nothing. Note, I didnt say it didnt target me I said it didnt adequately target PC users.
The only problem I have with it personally, for me, is the RAM issue and possibly the 2 USB ports.
post #99 of 290
Thread Starter 
amorph:
>steve666's points are well taken, and there are several others. The simple fact is that once you plunge into the wild world of Windows peripherals, you're suddenly dealing with a lot more legacy and complexity than you'd like.

A PS/2-to-USB converter actually doing translation. It's not DVI->VGA (trivial, because DVI carries a VGA signal). It's a translation, and those will fail on some peripherals. Consumers will not necessarily know whether it's a PS/2 peripheral, either. The green plug went into the green outlet in the back, or their son assembled it for them, etc.

Two USB ports will be used up by the USB keyboard and the USB mouse. Apple even shows this on their site for the Mac mini, but they don't seem to think that it's significant that there's no accomodation for a printer, or scanner, or camera with a USB connection, or... ?!<

Exactly. That, and the fact that if they just purchase one and bring it home they arent going to have a very good experience. 256 Mb RAM is not enough-period. Even dirt cheap PCs have 512Mb RAM standard.
post #100 of 290
Saying 256 Ram is not enough for internet is ridiculous. What do you think people are doing online these days that's any different from what they were doing 2-3 years ago when 128 was more than enough for a computer? Sending email and browsing eBay DOES NOT require more than 256 RAM and I'm sure a bunch of people can vouch for that.

If you're buying the Mac mini to use Pro Apps like PS and Illustrator etc, then chances are you know what you're doing, you know that there's only two USB ports and you know that you might need to spend $5 on a hub.

Also, chances are if you're buying a Mac mini to surf and email, you'll be fine with what it comes with.

THE ONLY problem I see with it is that some PC keyboard might not have spare USB ports on them, but if they don't, a $5 USB hub will solve that.

I can't imagine anyone buying a $499 Mac, coming home, seeing that they can't plug in their digital camera and saying "Screw this Mac shit, this was a huge mistake." They'll go buy a hub and that's that.
post #101 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG3
What do you think people are doing online these days that's any different from what they were doing 2-3 years ago when 128 was more than enough for a computer? Sending email and browsing eBay DOES NOT require more than 256 RAM and I'm sure a bunch of people can vouch for that.

Sorry for the intervention, but it is not what different users are doing but what software are using to do it. Open many Safari windows with heavy content and tabs and OS X will take 256 MB just to brush its teeth.

Certainly, under a more conservative use, 256 MB may be enough for that.
post #102 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
Leaving out the keyboard and mouse was just plain stupid, there's no way around that. If the target market consists of switchars, then factor in that many of them are going to have a cheap POS PS2 keyboard littered with windows keys, and they're going to get completely confused the second they look for a mac specific key.

Also, none of them will have access to a proper one button mouse. STOP LAUGHING! Serious. They're going to bring the assisine right click habit over to the mac (where it might be even less consistent than it is in PC-land ere long.) IF you don't make sure EVERY single mac starts off with one-button mousing goodness, it won't be long before developers start futzing about with a good thing.

This is bad bad bad, even apart from the generally poor impression made by excluding a $3 part without which you just can't use the machine. Dumb.

Matsu,

Most decent developers have been using right click since OS X was introduced. The OS is basically designed for a right click but at the same time it is designed so you don't need it...

When we rolled OS X out at my company we intentionally rolled out multi-button mice at exactly the same time!
post #103 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG3
Saying 256 Ram is not enough for internet is ridiculous. What do you think people are doing online these days that's any different from what they were doing 2-3 years ago when 128 was more than enough for a computer? Sending email and browsing eBay DOES NOT require more than 256 RAM and I'm sure a bunch of people can vouch for that.

If you're buying the Mac mini to use Pro Apps like PS and Illustrator etc, then chances are you know what you're doing, you know that there's only two USB ports and you know that you might need to spend $5 on a hub.

Also, chances are if you're buying a Mac mini to surf and email, you'll be fine with what it comes with.

THE ONLY problem I see with it is that some PC keyboard might not have spare USB ports on them, but if they don't, a $5 USB hub will solve that.

I can't imagine anyone buying a $499 Mac, coming home, seeing that they can't plug in their digital camera and saying "Screw this Mac shit, this was a huge mistake." They'll go buy a hub and that's that.


OSX uses 128Mb by itself. If you check your RAM usage you will find out that its all gone in very short time with 256Mb.
Even 512Mb is pushing it, especially if you have a cable modem.

A powered hub costs more like $20-$30, but it just adds more desk clutter.
post #104 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomahawk
Matsu,

Most decent developers have been using right click since OS X was introduced. The OS is basically designed for a right click but at the same time it is designed so you don't need it...

When we rolled OS X out at my company we intentionally rolled out multi-button mice at exactly the same time!

Not so. I do a lot of griping about many of the mac's apple-imposed deficiencies. The one button mouse is actually a great decision as ergonomics and UI design go. Just look at the way you're already thinking of OSX, "basically designed for right click."

Just one step away from breaking up all the hard earned UI consistency Apple has created over the years.
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post #105 of 290
Thread Starter 
Just reporting that my activity monitor says I am using about 300Mb RAM. Thats just from being online for about 2 hrs. No other programs running except yahoo messenger in the background.

512Mb RAM is a necessity. Which means that the Mac Mini is a $660 computer considering the RAM upgrade, keyboard and mouse and USB hub.

Still good if you have a monitor. If you need one, you can get a 17 inch CRT for $100-150 nowadays.

If you are going to get a 17 inch LCD monitor you can get a decent one for $400.

So.....
Mac mini plus CRT=around $800
Mac mini plus LCD=around $1060

Not bad.
The eMac is the same price, but some may not like its look. Advantage is the extra RAM slot.
The iMac G5 is only $200 more, with an extra USB port, much faster and an extra RAM slot. Disadvantage is some might not like its looks and the screen isnt height adjustable.

The iMac G5 seems like the best deal in this comparison, but personally I'm not crazy about its looks.

The Mini isnt a bad deal but is not a $500 computer.
post #106 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
512Mb RAM is a necessity.

Virtual memory does work, it's not a necessity.

Quote:

So.....
Mac mini plus CRT=around $800
Mac mini plus LCD=around $1060

Not bad.

I agree, not bad and far better than any of the all-in-ones IMO, unless you really want a G5, or prefer the all-in-one concept. Some people do.
post #107 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by iDave
Virtual memory does work, it's not a necessity.


I agree, not bad and far better than any of the all-in-ones IMO, unless you really want a G5, or prefer the all-in-one concept. Some people do.

Before I increased my RAM from 320Mb to 576Mb my computer would slow to a crawl after being online for a while and opening up a few programs like preview, quicktime, and a few downloads. The extra RAM made a huge difference.

All Macs should have 512Mb standard. IMHO
post #108 of 290
The RAM is available BTO, and two different keyboards and mice are available BTO. You can also buy these wherever you want.

The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?

People begged for a $499 Mac, and now they have one.
Order Crucial RAM and have the dealer put it in. Sell the 256 on eBay.

PS/2 connectors? Tsk tsk. There is no WAY you are going to expect Apple to put PS/2 connectors on a machine when USB is their thing.
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post #109 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
256 isnt even good enough for the internet. I upgraded my iMac G3 to 576Mb and it really needed it.

It would be nice not to have to use a usb hub

256 is more than enough for the internet. In my home there's a G4 867 with 768. a G4 iBook 800 with 640, and a B&W G3 with 256. We have wireless broadband in our home. All three machines are running Panther and are indistinguishable when it comes to the internet. They are indistinguishable when it comes to normal, run-of-the-mill computing.

Only higher demand apps like games iMovie, or LightWave cause noticeable difference. Of those, only iMovie is part of the target market of the mini. In that case we do notice how much slower the G3 is at rendering titles, etc, but it's hardly unuseable. I don't use garageband, but I'm sure it probably wouldn't even run on the G3.


And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.
post #110 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Guartho
256 is more than enough for the internet. In my home there's a G4 867 with 768. a G4 iBook 800 with 640, and a B&W G3 with 256. We have wireless broadband in our home. All three machines are running Panther and are indistinguishable when it comes to the internet. They are indistinguishable when it comes to normal, run-of-the-mill computing.

Only higher demand apps like games iMovie, or LightWave cause noticeable difference. Of those, only iMovie is part of the target market of the mini. In that case we do notice how much slower the G3 is at rendering titles, etc, but it's hardly unuseable. I don't use garageband, but I'm sure it probably wouldn't even run on the G3.


And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.

Like i said my computer was using 300Mb RAM. Virtual Memory should not have to be used in such a light computer usage.
Every Mac site, every mac expert, suggest 512Mb RAM
post #111 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by lundy
The RAM is available BTO, and two different keyboards and mice are available BTO. You can also buy these wherever you want.

The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?

People begged for a $499 Mac, and now they have one.
Order Crucial RAM and have the dealer put it in. Sell the 256 on eBay.

PS/2 connectors? Tsk tsk. There is no WAY you are going to expect Apple to put PS/2 connectors on a machine when USB is their thing.

Why on earth should anyone have to remove a perfectly good chip and sell it on ebay? Thats just ludicrous, it should have come ready to rock with 512. Or the ability to add another chip next to the 256. I mean, come on.

Some folks may have wanted to add their own peripherals, but PC users dont.
And who said Apple should have included PS2 connectors?
post #112 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Like i said my computer was using 300Mb RAM. Virtual Memory should not have to be used in such a light computer usage.
Every Mac site, every mac expert, suggest 512Mb RAM

Mac sites and Mac experts are not in the mini's target market. The mini's target market only cares about the perception of speed like my examples. They do not open up terminal and see how much memory is being used. They do not open browser window after browser window after browser window. They do not usually have more than two or three programs open at a time.

Their new Mac mini will run gloriously free of spyware and viruses. They'll revel in its stability and consistently speedy performance. Yes, they will eventually get impatient. When they do, they will know that they bought the bargain Mac and they will not say "This Mac shit sucks." By this time they will be hooked and they will start considering/shopping for a nice iMac or PowerMac. This is the idea.
post #113 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Why on earth should anyone have to remove a perfectly good chip and sell it on ebay? Thats just ludicrous, it should have come ready to rock with 512. Or the ability to add another chip next to the 256. I mean, come on.

Some folks may have wanted to add their own peripherals, but PC users dont.
And who said Apple should have included PS2 connectors?

Apple has often done the RAM - shuffle thing. It's old hat with them.

Now tell me exactly what you think the machine should have, and the price.
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post #114 of 290
I'm not so much worried about the RAM either, actually. They can buy more at the time of purchase, and Apple's upgrade to 512MB is actually pretty reasonable. They only soak you for 1GB, but that's not going to be a big consumer choice anyway.

Besides, I'd wager that a lot of PCs have about 256MB, and XP doesn't exactly thrive in that amount of RAM (although it's not horrible either, in my experience). It'll do.

I'm not suggesting that Apple should have put in a PS/2 port. Eeeuuugh. I am suggesting that they'll have to be ready to deal with people who only heard that it works with their existing keyboard and mouse, and who think PS/2 is a game console. However, I think Apple could have doubled the number of USB ports. That's how Windows PCs have survived&mdash;by building the hub into the PC. That's what Windows users will expect.

And, finally, I'm not hysterical about any of this. None of this is GOING TO DOOM TEH APPEL OMG!!1 But it will be rocky, and it will require some handholding of consumers, correcting of misperceptions, recommendations of a pile of little nickle-and-dime widgets to get everything hooked up right (which they'd better have in stock!), etc. Apple is throwing their smallest Mac out into the wilds, where everything does not "just work," where there has been no iMac and no Open Firmware to rid the landscape of ancient legacy connectors.

All I'm saying is that Apple had better be ready for that. The most baffling thing, to me, is the setup they display on the Mac mini's page, that shows the little box plugged into a display, keyboard, mouse, and nothing else. It's truth in advertizing, at least, but you really have to wonder that nobody ever asked, "what about the printer?" Last I checked, people do have printers...
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post #115 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by Guartho
<snip> ...And yes, it would be nice not to have to buy a usb hub. Of course, no one says you have to.

I don't know how this is an issue. Modern USB keyboards have a port on them for a mouse and usually another for other low-power devices. That leaves a powered USB port available on the Mac, for a scanner, disk drive or whatever. If you don't have a modern USB keyboard, get with the new millennium.

(Not directed toward you, Guartho,) the nitpicking about this amazing new inexpensive Mac is unbelievable. I'm thrilled to see the Mac mini and fully expect Mac market share to increase because of it.
post #116 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by iDave
I don't know how this is an issue. Modern USB keyboards have a port on them for a mouse and usually another for other low-power devices. That leaves a powered USB port available on the Mac, for a scanner, disk drive or whatever. If you don't have a modern USB keyboard, get with the new millennium.

(Not directed toward you, Guartho,) the nitpicking about this amazing new inexpensive Mac is unbelievable. I'm thrilled to see the Mac mini and fully expect Mac market share to increase because of it.

I was just going to mention keyboards having usb ports for the mouse, and i regularly use the other side of my keyboard for my digital camera. i guess I don't understand why you cheap fools can't be happy? i upgraded to 512 in the ram department on mine for 75 squid and an airport extreme card too. I just don't have an issue after dropping like 3k for my powermac a few years back.

Some of you people are greeeeeedddyyyyyyy
I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
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I see being an "AAAAA" Hole is some peoples life long dream...nice to see they can succeed!!!
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post #117 of 290
I just went to the Macmall site. They are selling the mini for $494. They offer (with mail in rebate required) "free" keyboard and mouse, g base station, color printer, headphones. They also will sell you 17" LCD monitor for 169, a USB Hub for $17, and an airport card (installed?) for $79. That's $761. (shipping is free). If you can the airport card it's 692. Buy a $75 CRT instead and you knock it down to about $600.

That's a lot more than...say...a$350 HP system--problem is, I can't find any such "system" on the pcmall site. What I can find is a box containing a 2.4celeron with 128 RAM and a CDROM drive and a 40 GB drive for $350. It has no wireless, no modem, no speakers, no DVD, no cdrw, no bluetooth capable, no firewire, no monitor. It **does** have lots of USB ports and an all-important parallel port and yes, a keyboard and a mouse

I looked at Dell, and, unless you are looking at the refurbished models, I can't find anything with a combo drive less than $628. Admittedly the dell has 512Mb of RAM which is important, and more gigahetzes, which is probably not. The monitor is 15".

First point: It is not clear to me that the prices for reaonably equivalent systems are all that much better for PC's. People I know keep citing $300 PC's and no doubt such things exist, but HP and Dell sell lots of $600 systems. Maybe I am missing something on the issue of price.

Second: Retailers other than the Apple Store are gonna put together all sorts of packages (one already is) in which low-priced monitors, memory upgrades etc. are folded in to make the mac more palatable to bargain hunters.

These compnents may be low quality, but we ae talking about appealing to price-conscious people...correct?
post #118 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by doctord118
These compnents may be low quality, but we ae talking about appealing to price-conscious people...correct?

Correct. We are all curious, I think, to see how this affair evolves. It will take time to have some safe conclusions at hand it seems. Perhaps more than a year.
post #119 of 290
Quote:
Originally posted by lundy
The thing that absolutely kills me is that for years, people complained that they wanted to choose all their own stuff. I'm amazed that there is a whole thread complaining about Apple NOT forcing you to buy what they want you to buy. How messed up is that?

That's not entirely accurate. People have griped about choosing their own display, upgrading their video card, and/or CPU, not that they didn't get to supply their own Keyboard and mouse (though in fairness the less enlightened have griped about it being only a one button.)

For 499, you can convince me that Video/CPU upgrades aren't really worth it. But you cannot convince me that the lack of easy user serviceable RAM slots (there should be at least two) and airport access helps in any way at all, nor the lack of basic input devices in the box.

It's as if Jobs was forced by Apple politics to take a stab at a headless machine, and has handicapped it out of spite. A machine offered without keyboard and mouse is simply absurd. People were asking him to cut the head off the e/iMac, not to also cut out easy access to RAM and wireless I/O and ports. Why doesn't it at a minimum sport the same ports as an eMac? Where's the mic in? Or for that matter, where are the digital outs given that the mini is such a natural fit for the stereo component rack?

No, they've set it up for failure, but may succeed in spite of the themselves.
IBL!
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IBL!
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post #120 of 290
Matsu, quick question. Why does everyone think these things are hard to crack open. Are they using some special screw set that only three Swiss watchmakers in the world know how to produce or what? Im sure it will be fairly easy to add an airport card or HD once you find the screwdriver at Radio shack.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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