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PowerMac - Anyone else waiting?

post #1 of 633
Thread Starter 
So no new powermacs were announced... And am soon going to be v. desperate for a new g5.

Would you wait? When is the next likely round of Apple announcements? (besides from the australia thing this week)
post #2 of 633
Yes.
Waiting
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and MacBookPro 2,16GHz C2D

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CubeG4 PL1.2GHz 80GB HD 1,25GB RAM GeForceFX5200 128MB VRAM
and MacBookPro 2,16GHz C2D

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post #3 of 633
Perhaps we will see speed bumps announced on Tuesdays in a months time or so once the iShuffle and mMac furor has settled a bit.

I would hope so anyways.

Dobby.
post #4 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by quamb
So no new powermacs were announced... And am soon going to be v. desperate for a new g5.

Would you wait? When is the next likely round of Apple announcements? (besides from the australia thing this week)

you can actually already buy a Power Mac G5.

ok for real though, no intelligent person was expecting pmac updates today. there might be an update in march, but probably just wwdc.
post #5 of 633
Personally I'm waiting for the big WWDC '05 announcement.
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post #6 of 633
Thread Starter 
hmmmph... it sucks needing a computer at such a bad buying time. may be able to stretch to march but already been waiting months (for this weeks apple event).

oh well, guess thats just how it goes with hardware.

must admit- pretty annoyed that the current lineup of powermacs are 6+ months old. am hoping apple keep hold/sight of their pro market, not just the successful ipod market.
post #7 of 633
Yes the PowerMac is due for an update, but I think (hope) IBM has a better processor for Apple, and they are working on a better machine, and a new motherboard. I think Apple will be going with PCI-E, and 4 Hard Drive bays again if they can manage to keep the heat down.
Whatever the case I think Apple is going to hold PowerMacs back until they announce Tiger is final at WWDC, and announce a very powerful ProMac at the same time.
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post #8 of 633
I'm waiting... i have a dual 1.42 g4 and told myself i would wait til dual 3 GHZ before i got a g5.
post #9 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by quamb
must admit- pretty annoyed that the current lineup of powermacs are 6+ months old. am hoping apple keep hold/sight of their pro market, not just the successful ipod market.

my dual 2.5Ghz is pretty damn fast. I dare you to buy one and see for yourself.
post #10 of 633
It's been since June since they were released.
post #11 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by MajorMatt
It's been since June since they were released.

And it may very well be until June (2005) when they will be updated.
post #12 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Personally I'm waiting for the big WWDC '05 announcement.

What are you talking about ?
post #13 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Personally I'm waiting for the big WWDC '05 announcement.

If Programmer is waiting, then I'm holding out, too.
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post #14 of 633
The spring bump of PowerMacs has ordinarily occurred some time in late January, after MWSF.

If there's a big announcement to make at WWDC '05 then any January revision will probably just be a bump, not anything major.
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post #15 of 633
When is WWDC?
post #16 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by G_Warren
When is WWDC?

Last year it was June 28 - July 2.
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post #17 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by G_Warren
When is WWDC?

Some time in June.
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post #18 of 633
Are the 2.3 Xserves actually shipping? If that chip is in plentiful supply then perhaps within a month the middle of the G5 line would be bumped up to 2.3Ghz. Then the lineup would most likely be single 1.8, dual 2.0, 2.3 and 2.5.

Are the 2.3s a new chip or are they 2.5s that don't achieve that speed but can the lower one?
post #19 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by OldCodger73
Are the 2.3 Xserves actually shipping? If that chip is in plentiful supply then perhaps within a month the middle of the G5 line would be bumped up to 2.3Ghz. Then the lineup would most likely be single 1.8, dual 2.0, 2.3 and 2.5.

Are the 2.3s a new chip or are they 2.5s that don't achieve that speed but can the lower one?

why hold out for a 2.3GHz pmac when you can get a dual 2.5??
post #20 of 633
Thread Starter 
cheers for the replies - am thinking of holding out till early feb, in hope of some kind of update. Any update would be nice really- as one has said, they are nearly 7 months old.

If no news then BAM juts going to have to spend the money on something that will be outdated in a few months.
post #21 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
Last year it was June 28 - July 2.

I didn't realize it was that far away. I hope it's all ready in March then because I just paid my credit cards off.
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post #22 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
my dual 2.5Ghz is pretty damn fast. I dare you to buy one and see for yourself.

I got my dual 2.0 Ghz about 3 months ago. Fast...very fast. I'm set for at least the next 2 years. My old G4 800Mhz wasn't a fun computing experience anymore which is why I got the G5. Now, working or playing on the G5 is just a kick. Upgrade now. Macs hold their value. If a new must-have G5 appears next June or August, you'll be able to sell your old G5 for within a couple/ few hundred bucks of what you bought it for and have a much more productive and enjoyable time in the interim. That's why God gave us Ebay.
post #23 of 633
Based on this comment from Apple's conference call this afternoon with analysts, it doesn't sound like anything will change for at least three months:


Apple has achieved a supply and demand balance with its iMac G5 and PowerMac G5 products, with the exception of the 2.5GHz PowerMac model. The company said it is 'very happy' with IBMs progress in regards to G5 component supplies, as was expected. It expects to achieve a supply and demand balance on the 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 by end of the current quarter.
post #24 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Personally I'm waiting for the big WWDC '05 announcement.

You're Right! I'm waiting too.
post #25 of 633
Hey gang,
I'm in the same boat as many of you. Desperate to buy a G5 PowerMac... not sure if I should wait or what.

I knew PowerMac updates during the keynote were REALLY unlikely, with so many other cool media-blitz friendly things to release.

Mild PowerBook updates seem really likely, so maybe PowerMac updates will happen at the same time.

I read the quarterly report item too... I'm not sure what that means "Supply and demand balance?" What is the implication of that?

I think I might wait until Feb 1st. That will see me through the launch of iLife and iWork.

If they bump it up in March, I'll just have to live with it.

I'm frustrated. Wish some Apple worker would give me the straight talk so I could decide whether to make the investment now or wait a couple weeks. I just want a computer that I'll be happy with for a LONG time... and the fan-rev conversation about the Dual 2.5s has got me nervous.

-d
post #26 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by thebeaglebeagle
I'm not sure what that means "Supply and demand balance?" What is the implication of that?

It means that they can't make 'em as fast as the're selling 'em. The culprit has been low yields of the 2.5GHz 970fx. So what the document is saying is that they finally expect to get enough 2.5GHz CPUs to catch up with demand this quarter.

Quote:
I'm frustrated. Wish some Apple worker would give me the straight talk so I could decide whether to make the investment now or wait a couple weeks. I just want a computer that I'll be happy with for a LONG time... and the fan-rev conversation about the Dual 2.5s has got me nervous.

Apple employees value their jobs, so any straight talk will probably get filtered through a rumor site. If the PMs get a minor bump, even the rumor sites won't know until the last minute, because the change will be minor enough that it can be made quickly and with very few people knowing.

Whether you're happy always depends on what you expect. I'm still happy with my 4 year old, 450MHz Cube, and more so after a hard drive upgrade. Your mileage may vary. It also depends on whether you measure your happiness against what comes out afterward. For instance, if you buy a machine in February and Apple rolls out some firebreathing monster of an upgrade at WWDC in late June, how will you react?

Personally, if I were looking at PowerMacs, I'd get the dual 2.0, the ATI X800 (aftermarket), and the display of your choice. It's not the absolute bleeding edge, but it's the next closest thing, and it should be able to keep anyone but the most demanding user happy for years.
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post #27 of 633
Thanks for your feedback. I've had a new video camera for over a year now and now way to edit videos. (Glacial on my 500mhz PB) And I'm a sometimes-gamer who would like to be able to pop in the latest stuff for the next couple years. SO, the faster the better.

If they came out with a fire breathing 3.0-3.2Ghz in the summer, I wouldn't feel bad... what I'm really stressed out about is buying a computer and then having them bump up speed (or down price) four weeks after I buy my new rig. Or less! If I could guarantee not to see anything until April or later, I'd order the 2.5 Ghz on Jan. 22nd... or as soon as the new iLife shipped.

You inspire an interesting question:
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph

Personally, if I were looking at PowerMacs, I'd get the dual 2.0, the ATI X800 (aftermarket), and the display of your choice. It's not the absolute bleeding edge, but it's the next closest thing, and it should be able to keep anyone but the most demanding user happy for years.

Why the dual 2.0 instead of the 2.5?
I suppose then I'd have extra bucks for a cool aftermarket video card, which I could buy at leisure sometime down the road. Yes, I've read the latest review of the ATI X800. Sounds sweet. But shouldn't I always buy the best and the greatest computer available in order to ensure that it stays current for a longer time? I guess I'm asking if you've heard of problems with the 2.5 (like the fan revving, or availability problems?) or if other reasons would push you in that direction (liquid cooling scary?)
post #28 of 633
I'm in the same position. I think I'm going to get the 2.5 because even with an update, the 2.5 would still be in the middle of the line. It's just a question of how long to wait to save $500, or so. I can rationalize that by evaluating the gained productivity for every day I have the 2.5.

There are a few complaints about the 2.5 on some of the sites like Macintouch, but overall, I hear good things. But I'm getting AppleCare and would recommend it. The liquid-cooling has been around for several months, but who knows what might happen in a couple of years.

I have a friend in the industry, not associated with Apple in any way, who thinks that from what he's read and heard, updates will come with Tiger; but he readily acknowledges that he's just guessing.
post #29 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by thebeaglebeagle
Why the dual 2.0 instead of the 2.5?

Partly because you mentioned concern about fan noise, which argues against the top-end model (and also the NVIDIA 6800), and partly because I've found that getting the #2 model instead of the #1 model gets you most of the performance for significantly less money.

Also, given that Apple is still catching up with demand for the 2.5, you can order the 2.0 and get it promptly.

Quote:
I suppose then I'd have extra bucks for a cool aftermarket video card, which I could buy at leisure sometime down the road. Yes, I've read the latest review of the ATI X800. Sounds sweet.

And it's available, or will be shortly. So get the default 5200U when you buy the PowerMac and use the X800 as your first "real" vid card.

Quote:
But shouldn't I always buy the best and the greatest computer available in order to ensure that it stays current for a longer time? I guess I'm asking if you've heard of problems with the 2.5 (like the fan revving, or availability problems?) or if other reasons would push you in that direction (liquid cooling scary?)

All the dual PMs have liquid cooling [edit: No, they don't, but I'm still not worried about the liquid cooling], and I'm not worried about that. Hardware does tend to be more quiet and reliable when it's not pushed to the absolute edge of its performance.

As for always buying the best and greatest, I personally think it's a good way to get soaked. The second best will last as long in practice, cost less, and offer most of the same satisfactions. The only people who should buy top-end kit are the people making money from the machines. If the 2.5 lets you get 20% more billable work done per day, the difference in price will pay for itself most likely in a matter of weeks or months, and that makes it a worthwhile investment. If you're just using it as a consumer (i.e., not using it to make money) then I don't see the point.

I mean, I have a 450MHz G4. It gets totally stomped by the Mac mini. But it runs the latest and greatest OS, the latest versions of the apps I use, and the (handful of) games I enjoy. It's only just now beginning to drop off the minimum requirements for some brand new software, 4 years later, and it works as well as—actually, better than, since OS X keeps improving—it did the day I bought it. Admittedly, the gig of RAM I dropped in hasn't hurt.

I don't really believe in the upgrade treadmill. By the time one aspect of your machine is inadequate, the odds are pretty good that several others are as well. Balanced systems are the best performers overall. Given that the Mac is not a commodity platform, it makes more sense to me to just buy a system, use it until it no longer does what you need it to, and then replace it. Upgrades can buy you a little more time, or a little more functionality, but not much. Mostly, I think, they just keep you obsessing over hardware instead of using it. I'm not saying "never upgrade," I'm advising "hop off the treadmill." If you run into a concrete limitation that a simple upgrade would solve (e.g., you need more disk space) then by all means, upgrade. But don't worry about it until you actually need it.
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post #30 of 633
I thought that only the 2.5 had liquid cooling. Am I wrong?
post #31 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by timmy o'tool
I thought that only the 2.5 had liquid cooling. Am I wrong?

No, I am. Thanks for the correction.
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post #32 of 633
You write quite well about the balance between "need"... and *want*. Thanks for your wisdom. You've definitely given me something to think about. The Dual 2.0 really will run everything quite beautifully, I know. (Heck, I'm pretty darn happy with the 800mhz ibook I borrow from work.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
Partly because you mentioned concern about fan noise, which argues against the top-end model (and also the NVIDIA 6800), and partly because I've found that getting the #2 model instead of the #1 model gets you most of the performance for significantly less money.

Also, given that Apple is still catching up with demand for the 2.5, you can order the 2.0 and get it promptly.

In December, MacWorld magazine reviewed the PowerMac line and argued that the lower end and the highest end were a better deal than the Dual 2Ghz. But given the complaints and availability of the 2.5Ghz, I guess I have to decide if it's worth $500 more. $500 is a really sweet iPod!

Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph

And it's available, or will be shortly. So get the default 5200U when you buy the PowerMac and use the X800 as your first "real" vid card.
I'm advising "hop off the treadmill." If you run into a concrete limitation that a simple upgrade would solve (e.g., you need more disk space) then by all means, upgrade. But don't worry about it until you actually need it.

It will be really hard not to buy that ATI 9600 installed (just $50 extra) and wait for that new card... :-)

Maybe Tuesday PMs and PBs will both get a bump (I realize it will probably just be PBs, but I can hope) and my decision will be easier. Or harder! :-)
Thanks again for listening,
beagle
post #33 of 633
I got two refurbished G5 Dual 2Ghz, one for work and one for home and I am very pleased. They are work horses.
A refurb. is the way to go in my book. It is not Caveat Emptor. I did have issues with Refurbs in the past that were not stable. If there is anything the slightest bit funky with a refurb I return it after going through trouble shooting with tech support.

Apple has been really good about this recently.

If you don't need a CPU right now, then just wait. If you need one as I did, I bought two.

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post #34 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by tink
I got two refurbished G5 Dual 2Ghz, one for work and one for home and I am very pleased. They are work horses.
A refurb. is the way to go in my book. It is not Caveat Emptor. I did have issues with Refurbs in the past that were not stable. If there is anything the slightest bit funky with a refurb I return it after going through trouble shooting with tech support.

Apple has been really good about this recently.

If you don't need a CPU right now, then just wait. If you need one as I did, I bought two.

p.s You can't get ATI 9600 128's on the refurbs., which are preaty nice cards and well worth the $50 extra.

But my eyes are on the x800. 8)

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post #35 of 633
Yah, after reading the post above, I went and checked out refurbs... you can't be sure what you are getting, actually-- in the fine print it says, "may or may not be installed." or something like that. But most probably everything will be the baseline system.

Refurb is tempting. Save even MORE money. Get Applecare, which I would buy anyway. Buy card, memory, and new iLife later.

Then I could order it RIGHT NOW...
Decisions decisions.

Quote:
Originally posted by tink
p.s You can't get ATI 9600 128's on the refurbs., which are preaty nice cards and well worth the $50 extra.

But my eyes are on the x800. 8)
post #36 of 633
does anyone have info on the details of the xserve's 2.3ghz g5? What is the revision number listed by profiler for it?

The news that g5's in a powerbook won't happen soon because of thermal issues has to indicate that there is NOT a new g5 process yet. Maybe there will be slight improvements to reduce heat/ghz in coming months, but this would suggest to me that there will not be significant pmac speed bumps this year.
post #37 of 633
It shouldn't be a big issue, it's about where the PC world is sitting at with their highest performing CPUs, the Athlon 64s. the 4000+ is at 2.4GHz and the FX-55 is at 2.6GHz, so it seems pretty comparable to me. Plus you get two of them!

It just looks worse because Apple doesn't use a rating or numbering scheme beyond the frequency of the processor. Funny, because they were one of the first to try and dispell that misconception
post #38 of 633
Onlooker, Programmer,
You guys know that I've been on the QuadraMac waiting wagon too.
I must confess that I'm losing my grip to fight temptation.

I have just enough saved to get a new tower.

Most of you are heavy into video and I totally understand the desire
to get the next generation.

A lot of great things can happen over the next 5 months. And then we're into that mad must have it rush and shipping delays as usual. So reality could be 7 months or longer.

The most I would ever use my new system for would be to run 24 track
sound recording with possible sinc to a cam corder video for things
like band demos.

The majority of my recording tracks would be voice, miked guitars,
drums and synth for strings, horns etc. so I'll need a solid system,
but I don't know how much computer I really need vs want.

I'm still trying to find out more about Logic vs Protools and which
would be easier to use.

Does anyone know the differences in processors, logic boards
and GPU connectivity from 1.8-2.0-2.5
Are they all NOW using 90nm chips or is the 130nm chip still in use
and if so on which models?

WHEN PCI-Extreme becomes available, will those cards connect to
an existing tower? Or are we talking whole new buss system and logic board? I read the line about replacing AGP

Last but very not least, Is there a snowballs' chance in hell that one
might be able to install dual core processor upgrades in the existing towers?

With the chaos that is my life, I'm not sure if I can hold out for another 5 months before some nightmare forces me to spend my savings on some other stupid crap.

So do I put my funds in a 3-6 month CD or get something good now?

And if so what?

Or would somebody please just shoot me!
post #39 of 633
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Onlooker, Programmer,
You guys know that I've been on the QuadraMac waiting wagon too.

I'm in no rush -- 2006 or 2007 will probably be soon enough for me. And I smell something in the wind that will make it worth waiting that long.

Quote:
I must confess that I'm losing my grip to fight temptation.

If you need it, buy it. Waiting for the next update is just asking for punishment because the one-after-next is always rumoured just as the next one arrives.

Quote:
Does anyone know the differences in processors, logic boards
and GPU connectivity from 1.8-2.0-2.5
Are they all NOW using 90nm chips or is the 130nm chip still in use
and if so on which models?

I don't know, and it doesn't really matter.

Quote:
WHEN PCI-Extreme becomes available, will those cards connect to
an existing tower? Or are we talking whole new buss system and logic board? I read the line about replacing AGP

Nope, PCI-Express cards will not work with any existing hardware. It will replace AGP.

Quote:
Last but very not least, Is there a snowballs' chance in hell that one
might be able to install dual core processor upgrades in the existing towers?

So far nobody has any G5 upgrade cards, and I'm a bit dubious that they ever will. Most of the upgrade companies don't have the engineering wherewithall to design replacement cards and deal with the heat/cooling issues. If one of them did, however, then it might be possible to upgrade an existing machine to the rumoured 970MP because the latter chip apparently uses the same FSB. If the rumours are wrong and the FSB changes or they move to an on-chip memory controller, then upgrades become impossible. Either way I wouldn't count on it.

Quote:
Or would somebody please just shoot me!

The current machines are very fast, and very capable. Do you actually need more, or is this just the typical "must have the latest & greatest"?
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post #40 of 633
Must resist, Oh the agoneeeeeee!
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