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Apple to manufacture 100,000 Mac minis a month, more...

post #1 of 56
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An overseas publication offers its insight into who is manufacturing Apple's latest products, and throws in some wild rumors pertaining to G5-based iBooks and PowerBooks.

Confirming an earlier AppleInsider scoop, DigiTimes today is reporting that it is indeed Foxconn (Hon Hai) which has signed on as the contract manufacturer for Apples newly launched Mac mini computers.

According to the report, which cites sources close to the Taiwanese contract manufacturer, Foxconn is expected to ship at least 100,000 Mac mini computers per month to Apple, or roughly 300,000 per quarter.

The report also confirms that Asustek has been enlisted by Apple to produce its new flash-based iPod shuffle player. Asustek will reportedly supply Apple with 400,000 to 500,000 of these puppies a month, or nearly 1.5 million per quarter.

Strikingly, the same DigiTimes report also claims that in the second quarter of the year, Asustek will begin supplying Apple G5-based iBooks at a rate of approximately 125,000 per month. During the same timeframe, Quanta, another Taiwanese contract manufacturer, will produce PowerBook G5 models at a rate of 30,000 to 50,000 per month, the report states.

While AppleInsider is fully confident in DigiTimes' ability to accurately assess and report on Apple's existing overseas manufacturing contracts, the publication has in the past provided inaccurate information in regards to unannounced products.

AppleInsider ceases to believe that Apple in the second quarter of 2005 could simultaneously launch both iBooks and PowerBooks based on a G5 processor, and do so successfully and proficiently. In the meantime, we're chalking this rumor up for forum discussion.
post #2 of 56
Well ... WOW!

First off the supply of Mac minis will outstrip that supply rather quickly and we will see a scramble to up that production.

The Shuffle will be a home run when, besides all of Asia, and countless teenagers disappointed by not getting an iPod for xMas join most current iPod owners who will add Shuffle to their iPod collection for activities that a smaller simpler iPod is better.

G5s in iBooks and Powerbooks? Barring a total breakthrough by IBM in a next generation 970 with fantastic power savings, as well as astounding yields and breakthrough pricing I just don't see it.
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post #3 of 56
Not going to happen. Powerbook G5 would come first by a long way in any case, even if they do manage those this year (which I would consider to be possible, but unlikely). We're more likely to see dual-core G4-based ones I think.
post #4 of 56
It would be great... but I agree its extremely unlikely. We'll see at least one new generation of G4 PowerBooks before we get to a G5 version.
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post #5 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by MattW
Not going to happen. Powerbook G5 would come first by a long way in any case, even if they do manage those this year (which I would consider to be possible, but unlikely). We're more likely to see dual-core G4-based ones I think.

Maybe we are getting a bit too hung up on the G5 thing. Maybe there is a contract to build new iBooks and PowerBooks, albeit with non G5 chips in them? Somebody want to explain all these new chips to me - it was simple when it was G3, G4, G5, but now there is 7440 et al, and since I've not been in for a bit, I'm a bit confuzzled! \
post #6 of 56
I believe the iBook G5s listed on the digitimes article are the 12" Powerbooks G5, and the Powerbook G5s listed are the 15 and 17 inch Powerbook G5s.

I'm now confident we will see the Powerbook G5 in Q2. However, I have no idea what the specs will be. What could be in the G5, which would still deserve the label G5?
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
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post #7 of 56
You know, when I read the chart...

Quote:
iBook/iBook G5 - Asustek - 1.3-1.5 million/year - (combined shipments of the two series) - iBook G5 to start shipping in 2Q 2005

...I get the impression that there could be two models of iBooks one (propably) G4 and one G5.

Thoughts?
post #8 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by Eric_Z
You know, when I read the chart...



...I get the impression that there could be two models of iBooks one (propably) G4 and one G5.

Thoughts?

If that had been true, I guess your idea is possible. However, I am nearly *certain* that iBook G5 reference is actually to the 12 inch Powerbook G5.
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
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post #9 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by ibook911
If that had been true, I guess your idea is possible. However, I am nearly *certain* that iBook G5 reference is actually to the 12 inch Powerbook G5.

I would think that for the PowerBook G5 releasae they would resedign the entire lineup and there would be no more 12 inch PowerBook, at least not one still based off the iBook. Also, why would Apple expect to sell so many iBook G5s and so few PowerBook G5s? The whole Digitimes article is rather strange and they have been wrong many times in the past.

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post #10 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by Eric_Z
...
...I get the impression that there could be two models of iBooks one (propably) G4 and one G5.
...

If the processor gives indication, which market
( "pro" or "consumer") is being aimed, than
this split of the iBook line is pretty much
unlikely. Well a definite no.

Also, apple will stick with distinctive pro and
consumer products of course. There is no need
to create confusion.
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post #11 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
Also, why would Apple expect to sell so many iBook G5s and so few PowerBook G5s?

Oh, I can see that easily. An iBook G5 would be an unheard-of value. And I don't see cost or yields as an issue anymore: Apple shipped almost 340,000 iMac G5s last quarter, and those start at $1299 with a much nicer screen than the iBook has.

The main issue would be heat, and if IBM's licked that... well, why not?

I'm not just favorably inclined to this rumor just because I'd be all over an iBook G5. No bias here. None whatsoever! *cough*

This also, indirectly, feeds my growing suspicion that the PowerMacs are not just getting faster G5s...
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post #12 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
Well ... WOW!

First off the supply of Mac minis will outstrip that supply rather quickly and we will see a scramble to up that production.


Yeah, hopefully these numbers aren't very accurate. I think it could sell 400k in a quarter (maybe more - too early to see how many non-forum consumers actually purchase). I'm guessing it'll be a word-of-mouth thing as far as how quickly the demand ramps up - friends of the first adopting switchers/adders will wait to find out how much they like it, before they put an order in.
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post #13 of 56
Or how about no more pro and ibook, but just three models 12 15 17, That way the other stuff they haveplanned can come in..

Wheres my tablet!
post #14 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
This also, indirectly, feeds my growing suspicion that the PowerMacs are not just getting faster G5s...

Well, go on... you seem to have interrupted some reasoning .
post #15 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
This also, indirectly, feeds my growing suspicion that the PowerMacs are not just getting faster G5s...

Hmm... I'd like to know more, why do you think that there might be something bigger in the pipeline? And what do you think that "not just faster G5s" could be?

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post #16 of 56
I am so SICK of people speculating about a G5 Powerbook. It's GOING to happen EVENTUALLY and you'll expect to buy it when Apple ANNOUNCES it. Speculating about one ISN'T going to get it into production ANY SOONER.
post #17 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by G_Warren
it was simple when it was G3, G4, G5, but now there is 7440 et al, and since I've not been in for a bit, I'm a bit confuzzled! \

same here
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post #18 of 56
If this is actual fact, then Apple better not blow this one. If they do, We may not have too much to talk about in 2007.
post #19 of 56
Look, I'd be as happy as anyone if this rumor were true, but... yeah, right!

Probably the G5 was just a typo. The report probably meant new PowerBook G4s and iBook G4s.
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post #20 of 56
concerning: so many cpus beeing confusing

company freescale
produces g4
new g4 less heat, less power hungry, more 2nd level cache, more ghz
this is the new single core g4 (7844 or something)
one day they will put two of those on a chip
this is gonna be a dual core g4
i even heard it would be 64 bit (2x32 bit i guess)

company ibm
produces g5 (64bit)
powerful but heat problems (powerbook)
they also will produce a dual core someday


concerning waiting for the new g5 pb

i am waiting for a couple of months now to switch to mac
so i was very disapointed not hearing about a new pb from macworld
but even if i am pretty shure 2Q we will se a g5PB i think i will still get me the new g4 that will be announced the next weeks(rumors)
the first version of new hardware has proven to be not as good as you are used from apple hardware.
therefor i will wait for the 2nd or 3rd gen g5PB and get me a g4 in the meantime

i am not switching from wintel to be annoied by smome not perfected assembly of a brandnew hardware

kris
vienna
post #21 of 56
The real question is what is IBM doing? They've been pretty quiet lately, but you know they are working hard.

If there is a new chip that would work in the PB then a "G5" might be possible. The thing to remember is that it will also be a beautiful design, which is better than a 2.5" thick notebook.

I can see a new iBook, but doubt that it will be G5. My thought is a wide screen replacement for the 12" and maybe better displays - especially for the 14".

Oh well, the SF Keynote is over and only 6 months to wait for the next one.
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post #22 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by kenaustus
...
I can see a new iBook, but doubt that it will be G5. My thought is a wide screen replacement for the 12" and maybe better displays - especially for the 14".
...

Why'd you change an overall successful product?
Indeed i see a long long future concerning
the current iBook - especially its current formfactor.
Perhaps they change the color slightly, dig more into grey,
tint dull black what ever.

Form achieved nearly perfection. Apple knows this.
Every fellow iBook owner bought his/her iBook,
because of its perfect manifestation of form and function.
Say endsville?

And one more little thing about processors, specs and
other useless battles (regarding iBook as it is). No one
who bought one (at least those, who i know. ) was ever
interested in mumbo jumbo tech talk. Well...
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post #23 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by Eric_Z
You know, when I read the chart...

...I get the impression that there could be two models of iBooks one (propably) G4 and one G5.

Thoughts?

No, they simply mean that total iBooks shipments for 2005 will be between 1.3 and 1.5 million. They are counting both the iBook G4 that is currently shipping and the iBook G5 that will replace it, that's all.

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post #24 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by bdkennedy1
I am so SICK of people speculating about a G5 Powerbook. It's GOING to happen EVENTUALLY and you'll expect to buy it when Apple ANNOUNCES it. Speculating about one ISN'T going to get it into production ANY SOONER.

you rock. i feel the same way.
post #25 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by mattjohndrow
same here

Here's a brief and patchy history of the G4 for you. I hope this helps.

Motorola came up with the G4 (MPC7400) in late 1999, replacing the G3 (made by IBM) initially in PowerMacs. The major difference between the G3 and G4 is Altivec (or as Apple calls it, the Velocity Engine).

Since then, Motorola put out the 7410, 7450, 7441, 7445/7455 and 7457/7447. Each of these chips was an improvement on the first - some in terms of extra L2 cache, increased branch sizes, higher Mhz, etc.

Here's the website: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...018rH3bTdG8653

When Motorola split off its semiconductor business (now called Freescale), it came out with the 7447a and a plan to build the 7448 and the 8641/8641D.
Here's the website: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...018rH3bTdG7249

And, if you want to know more about the PowerPC G3 and G4 from an even more complicated view, see Hannibal's piece over at Ars: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/ppc-2.ars
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post #26 of 56
Someone in Taiwan had a brain explosion...nothing to see here.

G4 7447B in the next update within the next month and then...who knows? 7448 or 970 variant? Anybody got a Harvey Birdman Mystical 8-ball? What does it say
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post #27 of 56
hi people, i am in the same time zone, more or less, as taiwan, and at 12.30pm i just tried to call Digitimes HQ... just got voice mail on the operator, and just got voice mail on one of the main people listed there - a Sylvia Wu for general enquiries.

i think my strategy was to pose as someone working in Apple Malaysia to report the "error - G5 should be G4" to them, to see if i can glean any information from them.

i might try emailing now... will report back if any updates surface
post #28 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
hi people, i am in the same time zone, more or less, as taiwan, and at 12.30pm i just tried to call Digitimes HQ... just got voice mail on the operator, and just got voice mail on one of the main people listed there - a Sylvia Wu for general enquiries.

i think my strategy was to pose as someone working in Apple Malaysia to report the "error - G5 should be G4" to them, to see if i can glean any information from them.

i might try emailing now... will report back if any updates surface

Good idea. Maybe try back during the week too. Good investigation you're doing! Thanks.
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
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post #29 of 56
When you consider that Apple has been playing with PowerPC 970 chips for over two years now, it doesn't seem terribly implausible that they'd have figured out a way to shoehorn one effectively into a laptopespecially when you factor in their newfound penchant for liquid cooling systems.

Further, from a practical standpoint, an iBook G5 is even more doable than a PowerBook G5, as it has a larger internal volume and a lower component density. At low clock rates (the 1.2-1.4GHz of current iBooks, for example) the latest 970fx chips may even run nearly cool enough to function in the current iBook design, particularly because of the processor's robust power stepping features. By crippling the systems with inadequate GPUs and limited memory capacity as they do current iBooks, Apple could very easily release iBook G5s alongside PowerBook G5s without cannibalizing professional sales. There is really no practical reason, and little marketing rationale to continue hobbling the iBook with a G4. By moving the entire portable line to a G5, Apple would draw a clean distinction between its computers (Power Mac, iMac, PowerBook, iBook) and its appliances (eMac, Mac mini).

As far as faster Power Macs are concerned, I think that Steve may be a bit embarassed by his initial 3GHz promise and determined not to release another update without fulfilling it. It's been long enough for IBM to work out a saleable volume of 2.7-3GHz parts and I would expect to see the entire line move to 2.3-3.0GHz at WWDCno slower and no sooner.
post #30 of 56
People, here's my guess. Forget the Power4-based "G5" for future major revisions to iBooks, PowerBooks, PowerMacs, xServes... in 2005... (iMac G5 will be ramped in 2006 to G6)

iBook G5 and PowerBook G5 may be Power5-based, next gen 970 or 980(?) PowerPC chip...

IBM Server dude:
http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=4162

MacNewsWorld, MacObserver reports just such a thing - the Power5 chip from IBM... all refer to an InfoWorld article on Power5
http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/39327.html
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/15.7.shtml

This Tom Yager guy seems to be the main cheerleader for Power5 and possible Power5 in Apple...
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/inde...mp;NewsID=10441

This would be a clear no-brainer strategy for Apple. Here's what the structure would look like by the middle-to-end of the year. It's a nice spread that covers the market and maintains profit, vision...

entry-level switchers and education:
emac and Mac mini G4
"Apple as consumer electronics, you've had iPod, now have a Mac"

consumer desktop:
iMac G5 (Power4-based)
"Apple as a solid fun desktop for mid-range"

portables for education and consumer:
iBook G5mobile (Power5-based)
"Affordable powerful portable"

professional portables
PowerBook G5mobile (Power5-based)
"Cutting-edge portable to integrate with your desktop workflow if needed"

professional desktop
PowerMac G6 (Power5-based)
"The beast."

Xserves...
(insert prediction here)
(probably follows closely from PowerMac G6)
post #31 of 56
Every indication so far points to the Power5 demolishing the Power4, and everything else for that matter. Setting aside feasibility concerns, why would Apple release an iBook that stomps all over the iMac? Or the mini for that matter?

Then, of course, there are the feasibility issues. The Power5 is engineered to be much lower cost, and with much lower heat dissipation, than the Power4, but that doesn't mean that it's going right into an iBook.

If you want something coming down the pike that scales up Apple's entire line like that, well, there's Cell...

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post #32 of 56
Look at who and what IBM is building processor products for and then consider the thermal requirements of those things. That ought to provide some illumination on this subject.
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post #33 of 56
I would like to point out that their is absolutely no mention of the current Powerbook G4 shipments to fill the gap between now and the second quarter of this year, and so in essence they are saying that the current Powerbook line will not be updated for 6 months, and also not manufactured for 6 months. The implication, then, is that the current Powerbook model will be 16 months old by the time a G5 arrives. Would Apple abandon its Prosumer line that much? Further, I do not believe that it has ever lagged a product line that much.

Highly unlikely. There is room for another update. One that most rumor sites speculate will occure this month, and it is a logical expectation even if you choose to believe digitimes or not.
post #34 of 56
Wait a minute, not six months..


We're in quarter 2 right now. Apple's fiscal year 2005 started in October of 2004

WWDC doesn't happen in quarter 2.


If these numbers are accurate, then the Powerbook G5s are being manufactured now, and either scheduled for release this quarter, or being stockpiled for release next quarter.

If G4s are no longer being made, then they will almost certainly release soon, because Powerbooks are nearly unavailable right now, everybody's running out.


If these numbers aren't accurate of course, this all means nothing.
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post #35 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by iRobot
Wait a minute, not six months..


We're in quarter 2 right now. Apple's fiscal year 2005 started in October of 2004

WWDC doesn't happen in quarter 2.

Yes, I get your point, and it makes things more exciting! However, I think the report was written around the actual year, not fiscal year.
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post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by JiveTurkey
When you consider that Apple has been playing with PowerPC 970 chips for over two years now, it doesn't seem terribly implausible that they'd have figured out a way to shoehorn one effectively into a laptopespecially when you factor in their newfound penchant for liquid cooling systems.

Further, from a practical standpoint, an iBook G5 is even more doable than a PowerBook G5, as it has a larger internal volume and a lower component density. At low clock rates (the 1.2-1.4GHz of current iBooks, for example) the latest 970fx chips may even run nearly cool enough to function in the current iBook design, particularly because of the processor's robust power stepping features. By crippling the systems with inadequate GPUs and limited memory capacity as they do current iBooks, Apple could very easily release iBook G5s alongside PowerBook G5s without cannibalizing professional sales. There is really no practical reason, and little marketing rationale to continue hobbling the iBook with a G4. By moving the entire portable line to a G5, Apple would draw a clean distinction between its computers (Power Mac, iMac, PowerBook, iBook) and its appliances (eMac, Mac mini).

As far as faster Power Macs are concerned, I think that Steve may be a bit embarassed by his initial 3GHz promise and determined not to release another update without fulfilling it. It's been long enough for IBM to work out a saleable volume of 2.7-3GHz parts and I would expect to see the entire line move to 2.3-3.0GHz at WWDCno slower and no sooner.

Apple are already threatening the sale of PowerBooks. The difference between an iBook and a PowerBook is a 32MB GPU (and DVI), slightly slower RAM (and less if look at 15" and 17") and an audio in port. Lots of people are going for iBooks instead of PowerBooks now because the difference isn't enough. But remember these iBooks and PowerBooks are both fast, iBooks are definitely fast enough for the consumer they're designed for. I want to see 1.5GHz iBook G4s and 2.0 GHz PowerBook G5s.
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by iRobot
Wait a minute, not six months..

We're in quarter 2 right now. Apple's fiscal year 2005 started in October of 2004

WWDC doesn't happen in quarter 2.

The article doesn't mention whether they are referring to the fiscal or calendar quarter though.

If both the PowerBooks and iBooks move to the G5 this could make room for a PowerBook mini (or iBook mini) subnotebook based on the G4. Hey, those future G4 chips have to go somewhere.

post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
The article doesn't mention whether they are referring to the fiscal or calendar quarter though.

Replying to my own post. They are indeed referring to the 2nd calendar quarter and not the fiscal quarter. Note they mention the iPod Shuffle as available now while the iBook/PowerBook G5 as Q2 so yes, it's the April/May/June timeframe for these. My guess would be WWDC.
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Note they mention the iPod Shuffle as available now while the iBook/PowerBook G5 as Q2 so yes, it's the April/May/June timeframe for these. My guess would be WWDC.

Anyway, I see only time frame issues with such considerations. If indeed they are going to release a Powerbook/iBook G5 in WWDC, then there are two options: (1) leave the current models without update until then, which will make what, 14-15 months without update for the Powerbook? (2) Update the Powerbook with a G4 this or next month, and then in WWDC with a G5. But this would be only 4-5 months from the last update.

It is clear I think it is not going to happen.
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Anyway, I see only time frame issues with such considerations. If indeed they are going to release a Powerbook/iBook G5 in WWDC, then there are two options: (1) leave the current models without update until then, which will make what, 14-15 months without update for the Powerbook? (2) Update the Powerbook with a G4 this or next month, and then in WWDC with a G5. But this would be only 4-5 months from the last update.

It is clear I think it is not going to happen.

If Apple announce PowerBooks on Tuesday and then at WWDC new G5 PowerBooks, coming out in September, it leaves seven months or so, also PowerBooks would ship with Tiger (good as 64-bit).
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