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Apple's HD future, the mini-mac, the big change - Page 4

post #121 of 163
There are some similarities to the arguments in this thread to those that arose when Mercedes-Benz released the A-Class car back in the late 90's.

That car was ridiculed as being just a poor-man's Benz. It didn't have the performance of other Benz's. Because it cost half the price, it must be half as good. It didn't even look like a Benz.

Of course most the complaints came from elitist who didn't like the idea of Average Joe driving the same brand as them.

Any of this sound familia?

Disputing the "inadequacies" of the Mac mini is just the same argument all over again. The A-Class is not a SLK and the Mac mini is not a G5 tower. Each have their target market and each have features that make it appealing to that market.

And has Merceded-Benz lost face since? No. In fact, the A-Class has just had a major upgrade (new shape etc) and the orginal concept of the car has remained: A small Benz at a price that competes on a broader market.
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post #122 of 163
What happened to this thread? I've never before considered ending it all, but after reading all these posts, maybe I should reconsider.
post #123 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Nope, not joking. I don't really see what is that hard with any of it, except for the whole house tivo - and whole house tivo is already in the works.

If nobody else does it, I may form a company and do it myself - there is no new technology required for most of the stuff.

Maybe it's a good idea for you to form a company and go for it. I can't see interest from Apple's part to develop some of the things you sugest. I agree that we'll see the dvr in the future. But honestly security and thermostat systems I don't think so. Maybe, third part developers like yourself might be the key to implement such things. Good luck.
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post #124 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by Bart Smastard
There are some similarities to the arguments in this thread to those that arose when Mercedes-Benz released the A-Class car back in the late 90's.

That car was ridiculed as being just a poor-man's Benz. It didn't have the performance of other Benz's. Because it cost half the price, it must be half as good. It didn't even look like a Benz.

Of course most the complaints came from elitist who didn't like the idea of Average Joe driving the same brand as them.

Any of this sound familia?

Disputing the "inadequacies" of the Mac mini is just the same argument all over again. The A-Class is not a SLK and the Mac mini is not a G5 tower. Each have their target market and each have features that make it appealing to that market.

And has Merceded-Benz lost face since? No. In fact, the A-Class has just had a major upgrade (new shape etc) and the orginal concept of the car has remained: A small Benz at a price that competes on a broader market.

I don't know where people get this idea that I am an elitist or something because I want a computer that is cheap and going to be upgradeable/usable in a few years.

You people see someone "taking shots" as you guys see it at your idol and one of it's products and you guys just go crazy with rage. I don't understand why, it serves you no purpose.

Again I don't care about any company losing face or whatever that has nothing to do with me and I could care less.
post #125 of 163
Don't take it so personally... Thousands of people post to this board.

Some of the people posting here are commenting upon many years of posts, not just your last reply. Trust me, this thread isn't about you. No worries right?
post #126 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by PeePeeSee
I don't know where people get this idea that I am an elitist or something because I want a computer that is cheap and going to be upgradeable/usable in a few years.

My barely-upgraded Cube (I replaced the stock 30GB HDD with a 60GB HDD) is still usable after 4 years. Not only that, it's more usable than it was the day I bought it because of constant improvements to OS X and OS X software. Why would the mini be any different? I can safely say that upgrading the mini is no harder than upgrading the Cube (except, possibly, for RAM).

What, specifically, do you want to upgrade? How often? Would it be worthwhile at this price point to simply buy another mini when yours gets creaky, and hand the old one down?

These are honest questions. Given that the mini is upgradeable to a point, the question is, is its current upgradeability enough to get you to the point where you can do a total system upgrade (i.e., buy another mini)?

Look at the prices for Mac CPU upgrades. If I were in that position, I'd just buy another mini and have everything upgraded at once.

Quote:
You people see someone "taking shots" as you guys see it at your idol and one of it's products and you guys just go crazy with rage. I don't understand why, it serves you no purpose.

This is not about you. It's about your arguments. We know you want a bigger mini with more slots. That's fine. But you've argued, variously, that Apple was stupid or cynical or not sufficiently capitalist(?!) in failing to build that mini, and those arguments have been fairly weak.

Quote:
Again I don't care about any company losing face or whatever that has nothing to do with me and I could care less.

Nobody is talking about Apple losing face except you. I'm more than happy to take them down a peg when I feel they deserve it. The point I've made, consistently, which you've dodged, consistently, is that Apple made the design decisions it did precisely in order to make the product appeal as much as possible to the target market. Last I checked, this is what you do in a market economy if you want to remain in business.

Did they fail to build your dream machine? Join the club. You obviously thought the mini was good enough to buy, and so from Apple's point of view it succeeded.

The mini was built in response to customer demand. If you feel they missed, write them. If you're right, and a lot of other people want what you want, they'll have to consider that. If you're wrong, and you're one of, say, a hundred people who just have to have a bigger mini with two RAM slots and a 3.5" drive, then Apple won't built it. That's capitalism.
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post #127 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
My barely-upgraded Cube (I replaced the stock 30GB HDD with a 60GB HDD) is still usable after 4 years. Not only that, it's more usable than it was the day I bought it because of constant improvements to OS X and OS X software. Why would the mini be any different? I can safely say that upgrading the mini is no harder than upgrading the Cube (except, possibly, for RAM).

What, specifically, do you want to upgrade? How often? Would it be worthwhile at this price point to simply buy another mini when yours gets creaky, and hand the old one down?

These are honest questions. Given that the mini is upgradeable to a point, the question is, is its current upgradeability enough to get you to the point where you can do a total system upgrade (i.e., buy another mini)?

Look at the prices for Mac CPU upgrades. If I were in that position, I'd just buy another mini and have everything upgraded at once.



This is not about you. It's about your arguments. We know you want a bigger mini with more slots. That's fine. But you've argued, variously, that Apple was stupid or cynical or not sufficiently capitalist(?!) in failing to build that mini, and those arguments have been fairly weak.



Nobody is talking about Apple losing face except you. I'm more than happy to take them down a peg when I feel they deserve it. The point I've made, consistently, which you've dodged, consistently, is that Apple made the design decisions it did precisely in order to make the product appeal as much as possible to the target market. Last I checked, this is what you do in a market economy if you want to remain in business.

Did they fail to build your dream machine? Join the club. You obviously thought the mini was good enough to buy, and so from Apple's point of view it succeeded.

The mini was built in response to customer demand. If you feel they missed, write them. If you're right, and a lot of other people want what you want, they'll have to consider that. If you're wrong, and you're one of, say, a hundred people who just have to have a bigger mini with two RAM slots and a 3.5" drive, then Apple won't built it. That's capitalism.

That's fine and dandy that your cube works for you - if I am not mistaken the cube can use a standard desktop hard drive and has a few more ram slots. The problem with the mini to me is that it uses a laptop hard drive and has one ram slot which I have noted many times and at this point I am just repeating myself. Laptops hard drives are slower in speed, smaller in size, and higher in cost all of which make no sense to put in a DESKTOP computer. The CPU should be fine for a while but everything else limits it - slow cdrw slow hard drive limited ram expandability and built in video card.

Yes I understand it was made that way on purpose but I don't care what does that have to do with what I want? Nothing at all.

All I ever argued was that Apple inentionaly built the thing to be limited as junkyard dawg stated and the only reason they did it was to make more money and force people to buy higher profit margined towers. That is a weak arguement? Hardly - it's dead on.

I never said Apple was losing face. You are wrong again.

You have this funny idea that companies only build things people want and if people don't want it they don't build it - That is like assuming ford can't make a car last 50 years so they don't build one when instead they don't build one because it isn't a good idea financially to do so - just like with the mini.

Me and the other hundred people? This is the kind of thinking that got Apple it's less then 10% market share.
post #128 of 163
Quote:
Me and the other hundred people? This is the kind of thinking that got Apple it's less then 10% market share

Now you're just being spiteful and childish. The Mac never had a %10 marketshare. This ain't Burger King you can't have your way.
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post #129 of 163
Hey PeePeeSee, just get a Cube! They have been available for four years now and they finally are coming down to Mac mini prices.

Amorph, I just upgraded mine by buying another. I went from 450 to 500 MHz after four years of excellent trouble free use. I also paid half as much as I paid for my first one, and got a 17" Apple Studio Display (CRT) with it.

I also upgraded my dual 500 "gigabit" Powermac by buying a dual 533 "digital audio" (for less than the Cube). I think those two would serve PeePeeSee and JYD just fine. That's what they should spend their $500 on if they don't like the Mac mini for the reasons they stated.

As to Apple's HD future four words: IPTV
The big change: Finally going for the consumer market.
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post #130 of 163
I'm not projecting my own wants and desires onto the rest of humanity. Go read my posts again and try to comprehend them.

If I were projecting my own desires, I wouldn't want a mini at all. I think closed designs with no upgrade path for the CPU and GPU are stupid. I think disposable computers are stupid, because they fill landfills and cost consumers extra.

I think your problem is that you're apologizing for Apple by attributing stereotypical characteristics to anyone who dares criticize Apple in any way. You couch these criticisms in pop-psychology terms to make yourself feel important. You think I sound young and naive? Well you sound like senile old fart! Heh, j/k.

One thing I've noticed in many Apple apologists is a tendency to resort to ad hominem attacks on those who criticize Apple. These apologists first try to defend Apple, but when they're confronted by logical criticisms of their holy computer company, they personally attack the ones being logical. In America, it seems, personal smears are more effective than reasoned discussion.

As for the Mini, I stand by my criticisms; it needs an extra RAM slot, a full-sized HD, and maybe a few more ports on back (or on the front!). These are very reasonable criticisms, and Apple could easily have built the Mini I suggest at the current price point. Maybe the profit on each Mini would have gone down by a few tenths of a cent, but IMO such a Mini would sell better.

If you want to disagree with me, fine, but do it right. Explain why it's a bad idea to build a Mini with a real HD and with expandable RAM. I certainly recognize that there are advantages to the current Mini design, as you will see if you take the time to read my posts.
post #131 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by PeePeeSee
I don't know where people get this idea that I am an elitist or something because I want a computer that is cheap and going to be upgradeable/usable in a few years.

You people see someone "taking shots" as you guys see it at your idol and one of it's products and you guys just go crazy with rage. I don't understand why, it serves you no purpose.

Again I don't care about any company losing face or whatever that has nothing to do with me and I could care less.

Whoa PeePeeSee, I am hardly the one who is crazy with rage around here. I did not single you (or anyone else) out as an elitist, I was just stating that there other arenas where similar arguments have taken place. And you have to admit that there are some elitists in the Apple community; not all of them post on this site. As dfiler said, this thread isn't about you.

Your arguments have some merit, but it seems that the Mac mini was not aimed at people who like to perform their own upgrades or require fast spinning drives. Apple made the mini for the people who buy a computer to do everyday tasks and never upgrade, or if they do, they pay a service centre to do it for them.

If Apple made their next tower computer difficult to open, with notebook drives and a single RAM slot, I imagine nobody would be disagreeing with your complaints.
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post #132 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I'm not projecting my own wants and desires onto the rest of humanity. Go read my posts again and try to comprehend them.

If I were projecting my own desires, I wouldn't want a mini at all. I think closed designs with no upgrade path for the CPU and GPU are stupid. I think disposable computers are stupid, because they fill landfills and cost consumers extra.

I think your problem is that you're apologizing for Apple by attributing stereotypical characteristics to anyone who dares criticize Apple in any way. You couch these criticisms in pop-psychology terms to make yourself feel important. You think I sound young and naive? Well you sound like senile old fart! Heh, j/k.

One thing I've noticed in many Apple apologists is a tendency to resort to ad hominem attacks on those who criticize Apple. These apologists first try to defend Apple, but when they're confronted by logical criticisms of their holy computer company, they personally attack the ones being logical. In America, it seems, personal smears are more effective than reasoned discussion.

As for the Mini, I stand by my criticisms; it needs an extra RAM slot, a full-sized HD, and maybe a few more ports on back (or on the front!). These are very reasonable criticisms, and Apple could easily have built the Mini I suggest at the current price point. Maybe the profit on each Mini would have gone down by a few tenths of a cent, but IMO such a Mini would sell better.

If you want to disagree with me, fine, but do it right. Explain why it's a bad idea to build a Mini with a real HD and with expandable RAM. I certainly recognize that there are advantages to the current Mini design, as you will see if you take the time to read my posts.

Ditto.
post #133 of 163
Quote:
I'm not projecting my own wants and desires onto the rest of humanity. Go read my posts again and try to comprehend them.

Again you make the fallacy of thinking that people automatically comprehend your posts. You think one way many of us think in another way. We're just stating the obvious which is Apple's products have to appeal to mass amount of users within a particular marketing segment.

In 2005 computers under $1000 are for the most part disposable. Asking for a non-disposable computer for $499 is fine. Doesn't mean you're going to get it. Doesn't mean you have to buy it.

Many people will relish the idea of having the choice to save money and worry about their computer needs that may happen in a few years at that time. We live in an instant gratification society.
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post #134 of 163
I did not make a fallacy. Perhaps I was wrong to think that people at AI know how to read - that seems to be your argument, that AI users don't all know how to read and that it's my fault. Or something. I don't really know what you're talking about.

Listen, I think the basic idea behind the Mini is awesome. I believe Apple SHOULD build a $600 computer that meets the needs of the average to below average computer user. My point is that Apple is not doing this as well as they could be.

There's only so many ways for me to say it. I suggest that Apple could have added an extra RAM slot and used a larger HD, and in response you tell me Apple must cater to the masses! Well OF COURSE Apple must cater to the masses!!! Nobody is arguing otherwise.

I think some AI users seriously need to take a good look in the mirror and ask if they are being Apple apologists. Because that's what it looks like from here. I make a few criticisms of the Mini and some AI users simply cannot accept that an Apple computer may be less than perfect. I get ad hominem attacks, insinuations that I don't understand that all Macs can't be towers, on and on and on. I feel like I'm arguing with Apple marketing bimbos! Look, it's OK if a Mac isn't so good. The world goes on. It's just a freakin' computer. When I rip on the Mac Mini, that doesn't mean I'm denigrating Mac users, OK? If one of you thinks the Mini is the cat's meow, that's OK. But please don't attack me for pointing out deficiencies in the Mini's design. Only a stroke patient could truly believe that the Mini's HD is a good choice for a desktop computer. Only an email granny could be satisfied with one RAM slot. And yes, some of us like to upgrade our computer's RAM without throwing out the RAM stick that came with the computer!

/rant
post #135 of 163
Since this is Future Hardware, what could Apple's plans be for the low-end market? Is the Mac Mini all we get? For now, the answer may be yes simply because Apple's sales are too low to support a broader product line. Yet I would not be surprised to see another low-end Mac in a year or two, and maybe Junkyard Dawg will get his wish. Before speculating about what it might be, here is what I think about the current Mini.

Apple didn't cripple the Mini to protect sales of more profitable Macs. A 3.5 inch drive, an extra RAM slot and a couple more USB ports would not suddenly make it an iMac killer. It is too apparent that Apple designed the Mac Mini to be spectacularly small, making it a desktop novelty much like the Cube. Mini is also sold separately, in a very small box, not as part of a whole computer "system." It is more like a commodity than anything offered by Windows PC vendors. Apple is out to beat them at their own game.

So, where does Apple go next in the low-end market? I think a business client computer is a logical next step. Apple is making inroads in the server area. A desktop business Mac makes sense. As always, it would not be just for business, but also for those who are put off by the limitations dictated by Mini's tiny size. A business client would likely have one or two PCI slots too, as well as a built in power supply.
post #136 of 163
No we can read and we're not AA(Apple Apologists)

many of us just realize that things take time and the overall market will decide. Sure we wish there could be another mem slot or larger faster hard drive but I think many of us relish the fact that buying a brand new Mac computer now costs $499 to start with an excellent OS and nice software bundle.

Of course we expect it to improve but just as we sometimes resemble AA there are the usual suspects here that are "Baby Dvoraks"(BD) and always balance the AA with their punditry and skepticism. That's fair nothing personal.

I just like to think about a Freescale based Mac mini or a G5 Mac mini for the future. Exciting times coming!
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post #137 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
.......

So, where does Apple go next in the low-end market? I think a business client computer is a logical next step. Apple is making inroads in the server area. A desktop business Mac makes sense. As always, it would not be just for business, but also for those who are put off by the limitations dictated by Mini's tiny size. A business client would likely have one or two PCI slots too, as well as a built in power supply.

if you wanna look at IBM and HP, just selling hardware to businesses is a no-win game. the big money is in consulting, total IT services, PLUS hardware

i would love to see apple offer this complete package much much more aggressively, complementing xServe g5, powermac, Mac mini and PowerBook lines with.... the business desktop Mac you mention...!!

edit: plus software, software, software... to once and for all shut the losers up that keep whining "but i need so-and-so-piece-of-garbage-software (eg Lotus Notes) for work and it doesn't work on the Mac"...

i mean, if IBM can convince hordes of businesses to use a piece of absolute trash like Lotus Notes day in day out, or Windows, for chrissakes, with it's billion-and-one vulnerabilities (don't open attachments!! even if it says i love you!! ) apple can do it. someday. when hell freezes over
post #138 of 163
From MacOSRumors:

"On the HD Video front, Apple is reportedly hard at work in discussions with the world's major video content providers (broadcast, cable, satellite, and emerging internet providers) to create a QuickTime-based (H.264, MPEG-4, QuickTime Streaming Server) "tv network" that will reach the world's biggest market for high-definition video content.

Designed to vastly outclass most existing transmission media (digital cable, satellite) for high-definition content by offering more 'channels' and more options for access including streaming free content, on-demand streaming, on-demand downloads and support for a range of popular media devices including Apple's own rumored HD Media Hub (aka iPod Home), this network is gaining momentum fast by leveraging the well-known success of Apple's music distribution channel iTunes.

According to reliable sources, this network will be made public sometime this summer after Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger and QuickTime 7.0 have begun to achieve their peak expected market penetration. The announcement will be designed to catapult Tiger and QT7 into the same level of interest which cross-platform users have shown for iPod and iTunes -- e.g. an essential part of accessing the digital media revolution without piracy.

We expect to have fresh recon related to this HD Video Network (HDVN) initiative in the next few days so stay tuned for a major weekend report on the subject, plus more G5 dirt tomorrow!"
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post #139 of 163
Not that I believe everything MOSR says, but I thought it was interesting article.
If Apples proven success with Itunes store, I think it's possible they will be moving to a HD video content store. Plus, the timing to announce could be at WWDC after Tiger's release. This year's WWDC motto is "innovation" so there is a possibility.

The idea makes sense to me. 2006 will be a huge year for HD with all the networks and cable companies delivering content in HD as well as the current NTSC. So if the HD store comes to fruition this summer will be in a good position to tap this huge new frontier that's coming our way soon.

I hope it's true!, maybe we'll see the MiniMac DVR, Ipod Video, bigger lcd's, etc.
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post #140 of 163
Steve Jobs said that he hates TV. But I think what he hates is the fact we plan our lives around the TV schedule. When Tivo debut it was a huge thing and I think such Apple video store could extend everything Tivo started.
If we can buy and record HD content and later, if we can produce our own content and sell at the store or share with family and friends, that's going to be a huge hit for Apple.
I wonder why Steve hold that Sony HD camera at the latest MWSF. Maybe he's thinking soon we all have such cameras, like the minidv cameras that many of us have now and we could use the content we create to share with others.
There are many possibilities coming our way in the HD front and it's very exciting that Apple could contribute in make it easy and cool.
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post #141 of 163
Steve Jobs never said he hates tv.
He never said anything even remotely similar to that.
post #142 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by dfiler
Steve Jobs never said he hates tv.
He never said anything even remotely similar to that.

Yes he did. He said he did not like the way TV makes you just sit there and watch without interacting or engaging in the experience.
Maybe he didn't use the word "hate" but he definately doesn't like the actual TV model and he stated there before my friend.
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post #143 of 163
Steve Jobs never, ever said he hated TV. He said "...TV is for when your mind is switched off, computers are for when your mind is switched on...we just don't see the two things converging at the moment...". He was quite correct of course and made a similar comment at an analysts conference a little later. This was several years ago and like all Steve's (carefully scripted) public announcements these comments were to serve Apple's position on a particular topic at a particular point in time. THERE IS NO REASON TO ASSUME THEY BEAR ANY RELATIONSHIP TO APPLE'S POSITION AT THE PRESENT TIME.
post #144 of 163
Exactly. This statement is so frequently twisted that it should now qualify as an urban legend. Steve simply acknowledged that TVs and computers are used differently and that integration currently made little sense.

Turning ones brain off isn't a bad thing. It has a definite purpose and is essential for keeping a brain running optimally.
post #145 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by vinney57
Steve Jobs never, ever said he hated TV. He said "...TV is for when your mind is switched off, computers are for when your mind is switched on...we just don't see the two things converging at the moment...". He was quite correct of course and made a similar comment at an analysts conference a little later. This was several years ago and like all Steve's (carefully scripted) public announcements these comments were to serve Apple's position on a particular topic at a particular point in time. THERE IS NO REASON TO ASSUME THEY BEAR ANY RELATIONSHIP TO APPLE'S POSITION AT THE PRESENT TIME.

What I said is just like you quoted above about the mind be switch off (not interacting and not engaging means the same when it comes to television). I remember Steve not believing on the convergence at this time as well. Steve made these comments not long ago, not even a year ago. I read them, I believe at Forbes magazine in an interview right after last year's WWDC, if not mistaken. Once again, I agree that he might never used the word "hate". The point I am making is that he does not like the current TV model (surfing channels, watching without engaging (mind switch off, etc.) )
I do believe Apple will enter sooner than later on the TV territory, possibly with an DVR kind device or like MOSR mentioned with a TV HD content store. Who knows what Apple will bring to the table. I think they are waiting to the right moment to do so. With "year of HD" this moment might be coming soon. Let's hope so.
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post #146 of 163
Don't have to be completely an idiot. 1. Mini has a slower disk. (fine for most people, MOST people will not notice. 2. Many people use laptops as there main computer, aka laptop hard drives. 3. Find me a computer with that footprint that has a fullsize harddrive. 4. If you don't like it you can upgrade it to a 7200 RPM disk GASP internally. 5. Or plug in another disk. 6. The mini is cheepier than some of the hard drives I've purchased. If you don't like the mac mini form factor then get an imac. Stop being such a cheep bastard. It's a Mac. It cost more than a PC (not by much), it's been that way since the very first days of Apple. Don't like it then switch to windows. You can get a barebones windows crap box for $200.

Whatever you do just stop complaining about a box smaller than my external firewire disk THAT DOESN'T have a 3.5 inch drive. BOOHOO poor you. My 7200 2.5 inch seagate drive is faster than your standard 3.5 inch mac hard disk. So if you want to pay that kinda money go ahead. Stop being a big baby.


Quote:
Originally posted by PeePeeSee
That's fine and dandy that your cube works for you - if I am not mistaken the cube can use a standard desktop hard drive and has a few more ram slots. The problem with the mini to me is that it uses a laptop hard drive and has one ram slot which I have noted many times and at this point I am just repeating myself. Laptops hard drives are slower in speed, smaller in size, and higher in cost all of which make no sense to put in a DESKTOP computer. The CPU should be fine for a while but everything else limits it - slow cdrw slow hard drive limited ram expandability and built in video card.

Yes I understand it was made that way on purpose but I don't care what does that have to do with what I want? Nothing at all.

All I ever argued was that Apple inentionaly built the thing to be limited as junkyard dawg stated and the only reason they did it was to make more money and force people to buy higher profit margined towers. That is a weak arguement? Hardly - it's dead on.

I never said Apple was losing face. You are wrong again.

You have this funny idea that companies only build things people want and if people don't want it they don't build it - That is like assuming ford can't make a car last 50 years so they don't build one when instead they don't build one because it isn't a good idea financially to do so - just like with the mini.

Me and the other hundred people? This is the kind of thinking that got Apple it's less then 10% market share.
post #147 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by webmail
Don't have to be completely an idiot. 1. Mini has a slower disk. (fine for most people, MOST people will not notice. 2. Many people use laptops as there main computer, aka laptop hard drives. 3. Find me a computer with that footprint that has a fullsize harddrive. 4. If you don't like it you can upgrade it to a 7200 RPM disk GASP internally. 5. Or plug in another disk. 6. The mini is cheepier than some of the hard drives I've purchased. If you don't like the mac mini form factor then get an imac. Stop being such a cheep bastard. It's a Mac. It cost more than a PC (not by much), it's been that way since the very first days of Apple. Don't like it then switch to windows. You can get a barebones windows crap box for $200.

Whatever you do just stop complaining about a box smaller than my external firewire disk THAT DOESN'T have a 3.5 inch drive. BOOHOO poor you. My 7200 2.5 inch seagate drive is faster than your standard 3.5 inch mac hard disk. So if you want to pay that kinda money go ahead. Stop being a big baby.

What do most people have to do with me? Nothing, so it's an irrelevant point. That takes care of the first two questions. 3. Who cares? Irrelevant again. 4. Yes I can upgrade it so a MORE expensive laptop hard drive that is also smaller in capacity.

You know I am not even going to reply to the rest of it because I am just repeating myself and I tire of arguing with apple apologist who love paying homage to their god.
post #148 of 163
edit: i wrote something not kosher with forum rules, ignore this post \
post #149 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by PeePeeSee

. . . All I ever argued was that Apple inentionaly built the thing to be limited as junkyard dawg stated and the only reason they did it was to make more money and force people to buy higher profit margined towers. That is a weak arguement? Hardly - it's dead on. . .



For me, this statement really summarizes our differences. It is no matter that you want the low-end Mac to have a 3.5 inch drive and 2 RAM strips. As a matter of fact, I do too. On top of that, I want it to have several more USB ports and the power supply built in. Unfortunately for all who would have gladly accepted a little larger Mini to get these features, Apple did not give us what we really wanted. So, where does that leave us?

Most of us appear to give Apple the benefit of doubt about why the Mac Mini is made the way it is. It is apparent to many of us that Apple designed the Mac Mini to be spectacularly small, making it a novelty in the computer market. Novelty sells if the price is right. The cube was too expensive for example. The Mini on the other hand should sell well.

I think most of us also reject the idea that Apple crippled the Mini to protect sales of more profitable Macs. Think about it. If the Mini had a 3.5 inch drive, an extra RAM slot and a couple more USB ports, it would not suddenly take significant sales away from iMacs and Power Macs. It may hurt the sale of eMacs a bit more, but I believe Apple wouldn't mind that at all.

Now, if you consider those who have a more positive attitude toward Apple to be apologists, than so be it. However, calling us apologists in a negative sense isn't going to make friends, which may explain many of the replies you get. I intend to buy a Mini, not because it is God's perfect little computer, but because it is as closed to what I really want that I'm going to get in a long time.
post #150 of 163
Well stated snoopy

My position also.
post #151 of 163
I think that J-dawg's assessment that the mini is very nearly perfect is a great description, even if he didn't intend it as such. I think the laptop hd and one ram slot or not a big deal to really 98% of the market - yeah PeePeeCee, you are in a very small minority....and that's...okay.

I think giving it, as everyone thinks, twice the RAM standard is the really big problem. I also would hope that the gpu is good enough, but I don't know until I get on one to find out.

If I ran Apple, I'd put in the bigger RAM, eat the $50 per unit and make all of the reporters have to write another article about the mini describiing how Apple now "listens to consumers" and "that iLife package is worth the price."

Upgradeability and a dozen USB ports are a non factor for most people if RAM is sufficient and the OS feels fast enough.

The question of an inch here or there makes headlines, forces innovation and subsequent PC catchup (as usual), and forces the entire market into a direction where Apple competes well...just northwest of COOL.

I doubt Apple engineers could know what the tipping point for iMovie harddrive access times is for switchers. The mini has the specs, price and form to be real big - and that is from PC magazine articles!! We'll see, if it takes off, then you get the Mini vB with good RAM and larger HD's and kids bedrooms and my mom finally feels okay about getting a computer!!

So go ahead and complain JD and PPC, its good for us to hear, but I'm not feeling bad about the mini or the Apple platform!
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post #152 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor

. . . I think giving it, as everyone thinks, twice the RAM standard is the really big problem. . .



I'm hoping that Apple will double RAM when Tiger is introduced, or shortly afterward. I saw a rumor stating that Apple is considering making 512 MB minimum on all Macs for Tiger. I don't remember where.

I can afford to wait, and it may pay off. A large part of that $75 for 512 MB is profit. Let's hope RAM prices keep falling so Apple is encouraged to do it.
post #153 of 163
Snoopy, you read it here: Apple to boost standard Mac memory alongside Tiger debut

And I also hope it's true, for the sake of future sales and to give the whingers less to whinge about... but I'd also be annoyed because I've already bought my Mac
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Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads - Dave Lister.
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post #154 of 163
Just went to the local Mac reseller and saw the Mini for the first time. I have to say the look and engineering are incredible, much better than website photos. With more RAM I don't see any real problems.

The only problem was that they had a Call To Duty demo on it and it was not good. Maybe just not set up resolutionwise, but I think the gpu could be a little better so that at least some switchers don't think it completely sucks for games.

Also since it is "all" laptop inside, it would have been cool to have a PCI slot in it, just to give the option of some expandibility with 3rd party bluetooth, wifi and card readers.
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Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
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post #155 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
Just went to the local Mac reseller and saw the Mini for the first time. I have to say the look and engineering are incredible, much better than website photos. With more RAM I don't see any real problems.

The only problem was that they had a Call To Duty demo on it and it was not good. Maybe just not set up resolutionwise, but I think the gpu could be a little better so that at least some switchers don't think it completely sucks for games.

Also since it is "all" laptop inside, it would have been cool to have a PCI slot in it, just to give the option of some expandibility with 3rd party bluetooth, wifi and card readers.

***WARNING: I AM IN A BAD MOOD THIS MORNING*** \

regarding your reasons for PCI slot, sorry, i had to jump in here...
3rd party bluetooth and card readers -- just get a bloody USB hub..!
the only recommended bluetooth-USB is the Dlink120-USB-Bluetooth adaptor, which is great. Card readers, well, there's tons of USB stuff for that

There is no such thing as '3rd party wifi'. Either you get Airport Extreme (which is safely integrated inside when installed, rather than having rubbish bits sticking out like their PCI brethren) or you don't get wifi. Dlink/Netgear/etc Wi-fi DOES NOT bloody work with Mac. end of story.

Your PCI slot idea just doesn't add up, and I warn you that the "all laptop" inside angle has been debated heavily on this thread, so your PCI slot idea might take some flak. Again I apologize for the moodiness of my post today.
post #156 of 163
well you can buy a wireless router to connect to your other wireless conection and then connect to that with an ethernet cable. That would cost about $35 but you'd have the exposed router next to your mini.

To me this thread is a bit worked up when actually people probably agree on most things.

For instance, the "intentionally crippling" arguement: taken another way you could say that apple was fuffilling a market segment of people that just use their computer for email, word processing and light iLife use, truly, most people. For all that the mini is good enough and pretty cheap, better than my 5 year old sawtooth that once was a professional machine and did (still does) professional work. Yes they "crippled it". Is that bad, mmmm it is what it is.

Maybe the laptop hard drive has some heat advantages that a regular hard drive does not have. I thik it is safe to assume that their hardware engineers know what they are doing. Could it be better? Yes. I don't think any of us would mind an inch bigger enclosure and a 120 GB hard drive. But WOW a new mac for $500! I'll take it!

It would have been nice to be able to upgrade the ram like you do on the iLamp, but what are going to do. It is what it is.

In short, yes, it could be better but it is still pretty good.

what was this thread about anyway
post #157 of 163
Apple announces a new personal device:

It's slim! Only 0.4 inches thin. It has zero cords (no desktop clutter)! Slip it in your breast pocket and take it on the go!

The enclosure is crafted from aircraft-grade brushed aluminum of the finest quality. It is machined out of a solid block!

Hermetically sealed inside this device is a helping of the most finest quality freeze-dried dogshit. Apple carefully handles this shit from asshole to consumer to ensure that it remains gag-inducing fresh.

Say hello to iPoo.

Ok, if Apple really tried to sell this how many here would swear up and down on their mother's graves that iPoo would finally boost Apple's marketshare? Be honest!
post #158 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion

I also upgraded my dual 500 "gigabit" Powermac by buying a dual 533 "digital audio" (for less than the Cube). I think those two would serve PeePeeSee and JYD just fine. That's what they should spend their $500 on if they don't like the Mac mini for the reasons they stated.

Yep, I'll be buying a CPU upgrade for my Sawtooth 400 very soon. I'm still undecided between the 7455, the 7457, and the 7447. No matter what I decide on, any of these at 1.2-1.5 GHz should work nicely towards my goal of making my Powermac immortal! I'll probably go for the Gigadesigns 7455 card, only because it's the only one I've found under $400 at 1.4 GHz. The 7457 has a bigger L1 cache that's good for 5-10 % more performance, but it costs more and I don't want to sink much dough into this Mac. The 7447 is more of a laptop chip, with no L2 cache - it's clocked at 1.8 GHz but it only performs like a 1.5 GHz 7455. The good thing about the 7447 is that it's cooler, which may be good for my poor Sawtooth.

This Sawtooth has been good to me, and my only complaint is that it has only one optical drive bay. Apple could make a miniaturized version of the Sawtooth and sell it as the Mini, and I'd be happier than a pig in shit - even if it only had a G4!
post #159 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by wwwork
.......what was this thread about anyway

this thread has kinda got to that stage
post #160 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
***WARNING: I AM IN A BAD MOOD THIS MORNING*** \

regarding your reasons for PCI slot, sorry, i had to jump in here...
3rd party bluetooth and card readers -- just get a bloody USB hub..!
the only recommended bluetooth-USB is the Dlink120-USB-Bluetooth adaptor, which is great. Card readers, well, there's tons of USB stuff for that

There is no such thing as '3rd party wifi'. Either you get Airport Extreme (which is safely integrated inside when installed, rather than having rubbish bits sticking out like their PCI brethren) or you don't get wifi. Dlink/Netgear/etc Wi-fi DOES NOT bloody work with Mac. end of story.

Your PCI slot idea just doesn't add up, and I warn you that the "all laptop" inside angle has been debated heavily on this thread, so your PCI slot idea might take some flak. Again I apologize for the moodiness of my post today.

Yeah, I guess.

USB is a good strategy here as long as you buy the hub. USB devices are abundant and cheap, but they just mean more cables and with the hub those devices become as big as the computer itself.

I didn't know the Dlink wifi card didn't work with the Mac, the wifi router works fine.

Thanks for convincing me not to waste time on this thread anymore.
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Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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