Briefly: Mac OS X 10.3.8, Dashboard, iPod shuffle...

Rose from 37.25 to 32.62??? Thats some fuzzy math.

Macaddict16

With the exception of the Calculator (bugs me for some reason)--and some slightly non-standard popup menus/scrollbars--I think Dashboard is looking pretty nice!

I can see what all the color is for now: telling one widget from another at a glance. Since they can all pop up at once (unlike the usual way you launch apps one at a time), those visual cues are important. They let you keep lots of widgets open and get to them all instantly.

Download the PDF from Apple's page for lots of details. There's quite a bit of functionality there!

Can't wait to make my own widgets with Shockwave Director... (I wonder if Director, Flash, etc. can have Dashboard transparency that animates?)

One question... The demo movie does NOT show the "water drop effect" happening. Nor do widgets flip over in 3D. Odd... those effects are still mentioned in the text. Are they still present?

Most likely. Maybe the demo compy lacked a CoreImage-enabled GPU? Or perhaps they turned them off to make the screen capture work better, or the specific build they used has them taken out...

i can make pretty pictures !! see
http://www.phatcraft.com

anybody wanna partner with me to make a cool Dashboard widget? i'm gonna let the cat out of the bag...

the idea is to make a Widget that collates all the news from different Mac news sites in a slick, innovative, exteremely readble Widget.

news collation leverages XML feeds of course, plus some nifty tech to prevent too much duplication of news items, for example Columbia Uni's Newsblaster http://www.cs.columbia.edu/nlp/newsblaster/

i am interested in designing cool UI... any others? maybe to help with marketing/alliances/coding!

thanks for your time people

IMHO i am not sure if Flash or Director are supported? Just HTML/CSS/Javascript. Any clarification is appreciated...

edit: ok cool, yeah Flash supported, quicktime, java... good question on the transparency.

Are you thinking of an RSS reader for Dashboard? This'd be a great widget! I know HTML and CSS and should be learning some basic Java soon, if that's all that is necessary to make one, I'd be interested. Has Apple released documents detailing the making of widgets yet, or is it still in the higher developers area?

edit: Found the information on building widgets and I am even more interested now.

They're still there, but it requires a capable graphics card.

From Apple:

i am thinking a more directed kind of rss reader. you gotta assume that tons of people will be doing generic rss reader.

i think we should differentiate ourselves to specific areas, starting with our beloved Mac News. smart grouping of news items, great UI, and getting all your News from multiple websites in just one Widget may give this the spark that will light up your Dashboard

game on:
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html

ps. if one can use Flash and dashboard supports Flash tranceparency, that would make for some cool effecx and stuff.

thanks for your interest danielctull! let's just continue to explore Dashboard fun!

Supposedly all your Web plug-ins are supported. HTML/JS is just the beginning. I see in the dev docs that you have a PNG background with transparency control. The question then becomes... if you have a TOTALLY transparent background, and then Flash or Director plug-in stuff animating on top of that, can the background of the plug-in be transparent instead of solid? You don't see that done on web pages much if ever, but maybe Dashboard can do it?


The "genie" effect seems more intensive than the widgets flipping over, and it doesn't require Core Image. (Genie doesn't even need Quartz Extreme! Nor do Sheets.) How do you know which UI effects (if any) are Core Image effects? Does a widget flipping over really need a Core Image capable GPU?

1. dude, intense... like multi-level transparency and stuff composited on the fly in Dashboard...

2. widget flipping over, etc... interesting question. if most animations are done in Flash, for example, that could bypass Core Image GPU considerations to deliver some nice animation even for those with *ahem* crap video cards (ie, in the first year of Tiger, that would be most people)

The flip is such a trivial transform that the CPU can do it easily, in real time. Remember, we had the genie effect years before Core Image, and that's a similar problem.

If you don't have one of the cards listed above, it just means that Core Image will fall back on the CPU. The CPU has AltiVec, which is a highly capable vector processor, so you will still be able to execute a lot of filters and effects in real time, and they'll still be supported.

This idea that you won't be able to do anything fancy without GPU support must die. Core Image will be fully functional. It just won't be fully accelerated without one of the GPUs listed above. But the CPU can do filters just fine. You might even say that AltiVec was designed for that sort of thing...

Am I the only one to think "UGH!"?

2 Docks, one over the other. Dragging out of the top dock removes things from a dock in a poof. Dragging out of the bottom dock creates a new mini-application on the screen. These mini-applications don't have their own desktop icons and can't be launched individually, so application authors have a choice between a "real" application and a "Dashboard" application.

Why couldn't they just simplify the management of ALL applications, and make Dashboard widgets appear to be first-class citizens? If they want a nifty function key to bring it up, let people assign such a key to any group of apps, not just Dashboard apps. And why can't I arrange Dashboard apps around real apps on my screen?

Dashboard widgets exist on their own separate layer, so it makes perfect sense for them to have their own special dock. The real Dock is grayed out when Dashboard is active, so I don't think it's confusing. On the contrary -- the animation makes it very clear what's going on.

And no, I don't want to clutter my Dock with a dozen various widgets -- I think you're missing Dashboard's best feature, the ability to slide in and slide out very quickly. One of the ingredients for that to work is existing in a separate environment that can be speedily invoked and dismissed.

Hopefully some of thse cool ideas will be possible There ARE animated transparent graphics (not Flash, just JS) in the current widgets: when they change size to show more info, those anti-aliased rounded corners are moving. No reasong those couldn't be much more complex PNGs (like the rain and sun weather images) doing much more complex motions. (If I can control that kind of thing with Director and Lingo, all the better!)

I bet you're right about special Core Image GPUs not being needed. It's odd not to show those effects in the demo movie, but that doesn't mean much.


Dashboard's not meant for the purpose you describe--although your idea would make a great utility too. (I'm sure someone will make add-ons to take Dashboard widgets OUT of Dashboard.)

Dashboard vs. the regular dock isn't confusing, because the regular Dock--the whole regular screen, in fact--just dims away and is non-functional while you're in Dashboard.

Plus, the Dashboard dock is not always there--only if you want it. I personally would only open it when I wanted to add a new widget. The rest of the time I'd just keep all my widgets open and not NEED the Dashboard dock.

(I do think the PMG5-matching look of the Dashboard dock is odd. A little too busy... and Tiger doesn't need one MORE visual theme going on!)

I'm also wondering why there are 2 classes of applications.

Obviously as another reply said, there are different purposes for dashboard and 'real' apps. If it's a new way of interfacing with your computer, however, why restrict the language for dashboard apps? There is no current reason to restrict dashboard apps to HTML/CSS/Javascript/quicktime/flash if carbon and cocoa are available.

So is it just about the user interface? To me, the lack of cocoa says there's more.

I believe Apple has something in mind - some other device where dashboard apps can run from. A java (dashboard) device with access to your phone numbers, weather info, stock prices, etc etc - even an applet to control your iTunes. Maybe the "iPod Home" rumour relates to this.

Although Apple promotes the ability to make apps with just HTML, I'm pretty sure you CAN use Cocoa too!

Mentioned here:
http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/da...s_konfabulator

As for the logic behind two classes--I think it's for usability.

There already ARE two classes of apps in terms of how people use them: ones you spend time in, and "little" ones you use briefly and then get out of.

The Dashboard distinction may be artificial, but it acknowldges that second class of app, and makes it easier to work with those.

My dock won't have to be cluttered with "little stuff" like Calculator and Address Book anymore. All that stuff will be one click away. And when I NEED the full Address Book (for instance), one click in the widget will get me there.

In my mind, this sentence contradicts itself. Elimination of hidden "modes" was always one of the core precepts of the Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines. Now you're going to have an entire class of apps in another Dock that looks sort of like the real dock and is near it, but acts completely differently in response to drag and clicks. And you won't be able to use Dashboard apps next to a real app, you have to enter a special mode or whatever.

You want another row on your dock for widgets that's hideable? Great! You want virtual desktops that can be invoked with a keypress and overlayed, and some apps to automatically go to a second virtual desktop? Great! But why force this distinction between real apps and Dashboard widgets, and why make the second row of dock icons behave differently, and why have these modes where you can use one but not the other?

The Widget Bar (Apple does NOT call it a dock--I just looked at their docs) doesn't LOOK like the dock, nor does it ACT like the dock. That should clear up some misconceptions

The Widget Bar acts very much like the media bar of many apps. Click an item to activate it--or drag it where you want it. That means you can add a widget with one click if you don't care where it goes. Or drag it into place if you do. It's really not confusing to use.

And the Widget Bar isn't a normal part of Dashboard use. It's for customizing what shows up in Dashboard. The rest of the time it's not even there. Many people will never even use it. Those who would be confused by it included.

This is a case where it's useful to move into a separate mode for just one type of app. Why? because by highlighting the newly-visible widgets and dimmming everything else, you can show them ALL with one operation. They're small and simple enough to fit.

That means you never have to hunt for the icon or name of the widget you want. Hit the icon or F12, and instantly any widget you commonly use is there. The fact that each is a different color--and positioned where you left it--further helps you get right to what you're after. It's as though the app IS the icon. You see it, and you use it, with no selection process needed--except to trigger Dashboard.

You COULD make such a system available to all apps... multiple virtual desktops is cool... but that would confuse most users I think. They'd have to keep track of which apps were on the dashboard (or the other desktop[s]) and which were not. May as well do away with it then--and lose the instant-access, instant-dismissal benefit which is the reason for Dashboard. That benefit applies to small apps that you use briefly--not to all apps. Exposé provides what you need for other kinds of apps.

Put another way, multiple virtual desktops all alike would be a neat power-user feature--I'd love Apple to add that--but it would be a burden to many other users. It wouldn't be something they'd use. Dashboard, however, is easily usable and comprehensible to everyone BECAUSE there's a clear distinction between it and "everything else." (And remember that many of these things have long been separate--as panes of Sherlock.)

Again, I think this distinction here is NOT artificial. It's recognizing a distinction that already existed between "real" apps and "mini" apps, and makes something useful of it--something that understands how people think and work. Address Book, Calculator, iCal, Stickies... these are all things I launch (bounce bounce), use for a moment, and then use a menu command or keyboard shortcut to quit or hide. With dashboard, ONE operation can show ALL of them--and hide them again--more quickly, easily, and without cluttering my dock with "trivial"--but vital--apps.

I think people will easily understand and remember what's a widget and what isn't. Nobody will find themselves wondering... "Web browser... is that in Dashboard?" Nor will they look for the latest weather under Applications. The principle of "widgets" vs. regular "apps" is further made clear by using a different name... They're not "Dashboard apps," they're "widgets."

Dashboard also avoids cluttering my screen with little app windows (or menu icons) to do minor things like display weather or control iTunes. If you want full-fledged always-present apps for those things, you CAN still have them. But they clutter your workspace. I've always been of two minds about such things, from CPU meters to remote-controllers to weather banners.

Solution? Dashboard lets you have your mini-apps AND your freedom from clutter. Have your cake and eat it too.

Sometimes dividing things into different areas or functions makes things MORE logical. That's why we have a menu bar, window gadgets, AND a Dock. Each does its job well. You COULD pack all those things into one long menu, but it would be harder to navigate, and it wouldn't respect the way people work with their machines.

And of course, for those who DON'T work that way--who want the mini apps mixed in with the full-scale apps... Dashboard is optional Work the way you always have, and get around via Expose and the Dock alone. Your regular Calculator etc. still exist, and will still have their uses--when you WANT to work with a mix of apps, or when you're doing something more intensive and not "in and out." Like creating new contacts, or using the Calculator paper tape for a long series of calculations. Those aren't quick--and so they're not what Dashboard is for.

Some will never use Dashboard, and nothing is lost by having the option and not using it. But I think a LOT of people will find that Dashboard saves them time and effort. That it fits usefully into the way they use their computer. I think they will even miss it when sitting down at a Panther or Windows system.

I guess I should clarify... I'm not arguing against Dashboard's usefulness, just its implementation. I watched Apple's movie and it sure looked ugly and unintuitive to me, and I'm what you might call an uber-geek. I can't imagine my grandmother using it on her iMac, while I think its tools would be useful to her.

Basically, a lot of the stuff that was in Watson/Sherlock seem to belong in an app, and not in a temporarily visible "mode". I don't see why this is so much better than a tabbed palette of extra tools, except for the whiz-bang demo factor. My grandmother, and I as well, would sure understand the tabbed pane app better.

And the UI for Dashboard just looks really, really bad to me. Like, worse than if Microsoft had implemented it. The Dashboard "not-a-Dock" designer should, IMHO, be fired.

The inconsistencies in dragging, I suppose, shouldn't surprise me. MacOS X is horribly inconsistent in what happens when you drag random object X into random space Y, so I suppose adding one more inconsistency doesn't significantly worsen the experience. MacOS 7-8 was probably as good as we are going to get on that front for awhile yet (really, OpenDoc was as good as we're going to get for a LONG while.)

Has everyone already forgotten the Desk Accessory? They were programmed differently and behaved differently, and constrained by necessity to be little things that you only needed open for a short time. They were only available from the Apple Menu, where no other app was available (until Apple bought out a third party hack, and even then the hack was off by default).

Dashboard gadgets are the new Desk Accessories, only more configurable and more powerful. It didn't make sense to commingle them with normal applications in 1984, and it doesn't now.

I think they were implemented primarily as HTML and JavaScript because so many of them (the weather app, for instance) are front ends to web technologies. So the developer of a web service can whip up a Dashboard app to access it herself, instead of hunting for a Cocoa programmer.

And yes, you can call into Cocoa, or Java, or AppleScript, or what-have-you, from a gadget. They're not limited to being 100% HTML/JavaScript.

I guess this is one of the points I'm disputing. In fact, that was the WHOLE POINT of Desk Accessories in 1984, before MultiFinder existed.

If this is supposed to replace Watson, and you look up a recipe and want to print it, what does the print UI look like? Or print a translation? Or want an ever-present stock ticker in the corner of your screen? Or want that Konfabulator widget that puts a 10% transparent, unclickable "MST3K" silouette at the bottom of your screen.

I like the idea of UI development with JavaScript, HTML, etc., ala Konfabulator. I'd love to see it become a peer of Cocoa/Carbon apps for full-blown tools. I also like Watson/Sherlock. It just seems like when Apple's software designers get ahold of these great 3rd party apps now, they just eat them up and regurgitate them into a mess, destroying the original product in the process.

Yeah, I was about to say.

I love the idea of being able to code something as a web-standards bundle of files, and have it work as an application. That's just so easy, and so neat.

What I'd really love would be the integration of DVD Player and Quicktime Player into one application, called Player. (original, huh?) And make Pro included with Tiger, it just make more sense. That way, Panther holdouts can still get Pro. Or whatever.

This doesn't replace other apps--it's an alternate way to work with certain simple functions. (I don't even know if Sherlock is being replaced--if enough people like it, it should be kept. I for one am a big fan of Sherlock Movies, although I think some of that could be put into Safari instead.)

What it offers that a single tabbed app--or worse yet multiple separate conventional apps--does not:

1. Instant in, instant out.

2. They're all there with ONE command.

Not everyone has to like that, though. The old way of working with conventional "small apps" has advantages too, and they are here to stay. Dashboard will launch them, in fact, when needed for more advanced things (like address label printing, etc.)

I agree that the LOOK is inconsistent. That bothers me about Tiger overall--it's not bad, but there's a slow "creep" towards too much variety--and the best (worst) examples would be the Widget Bar and Mail's new toolbar. But the functionality is great, and my $129 check is still waiting

Well, the point was that you could whip out the calculator without quitting the program you were in, then go back to the program. Which is exactly what Dashboard does now.


You want 'em? Get 'em. Dashboard doesn't replace anything. In fact, a lot of the widgets (or gadgets, whatever) that they've shown off are simply adaptations of things that are available elsewhere. It doesn't replace Watson. It replaces desk accessories. If you need a persistent calculator, you know where to find it. If you just need to whip something up quick, you can use Dashboard.

It doesn't take away anything. It just adds a convenient option. If anything, the there/not there interface is an improvement on the desk accessory, which was a hack.


Apple hasn't gotten ahold of anything, or regurgitated anything, with Dashboard. It's all new, all theirs. The app you're thinking of is Konfabulator, which you're welcome to use. It's taking the web-coding-as-full-application route. Dashboard is taking the web-coding-as-desk-accessory route.

It should be fairly simple to replicate Dashboard apps as regular apps if you really want to. Unless I'm mistaken, a few clicks in Interface Builder and a drag-and-drop of a WebKit field and you're about 90% of the way there.

Dashboard identifies the need for stuff that you only need occasionally, and briefly, and pulls it out into its own layer. Its basis is not purely theoretical, it's practical. Since the best theories are developed around practical observations, any time a theory fails to explain the appeal of an implementation it is the theory, and not the implementation, that needs to be criticized.

I have a question about the cross platform potential for widgets. Since this is running on WebCore, and using standard programming languages like javascript, HTML, and CSS, can widgets be run on other operating systems. For example, obviously the KDE browser is WebCore now and supports all the languages. So are they transferable, or does the flipping and other effects rely on Aqua? And if so could you eliminate the animations and get a basic functionality?

This triggered a thought... a button on a Dashboard widget that launches the full blown more powerful app. The Dashboard calculator looks to be just for quick arithmetic, but a button it that launches the full Calculator.app would be a nice segue. Provide a nice link between the quick and dirty and the more thorough. Like say, a quick click on a button on the Weather widget takes you to www.weather.com (or whatever website they're using to get information).

Some basic functionality of some widgets (not Cocoa ones) would indeed work in a browser on any platform.

But I'm sure lots of Mac-specific features will be utilitzed, too. And the overall Dashboard interface--with the widget management bar, the flipping to reveal controls, the Expose reveal (of course) and associated effects--is Mac-specific. It looks like some may tie into Spotlight too, and that's Mac-only.

Still, I'm sure many HTML/JS-based things could be made to work in Dashboard, Konfabulator, AND browsers, with a little tweaking.

The included widgets do just that kind of thing Links to the web, and links to other apps. Like editing an address card by launching Address Book. (They don't mention doing that with Calculator, but it's a good idea--especially with the new graphing stuff that the real Calculator will supposedly have.)

Check out the PDF on Apple's Dashboard page: it's mostly non-technical and has lots of details on the widgets--and detailed images.

Tiger has in-built translation...

I see the 'Translator' widget does it 'instantly'. Does that mean that Tiger has an in-built translation module? No need to go online? It can do all this locally? Can it translate whole documents too? This is very good indeed! ;-)

Cheers Daniel

How about if you're online on a foreign site? I'd love to click a button to go to English, and click to go to normal. (Well that seems obvious to revert to original site look, but just a button to turn it on would do ).

You sound like your one of those latte liberals from Massachusetts!