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A few questions about the 12" TiBook...

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
1. Where, exactly, are the speakers? :confused:

2. Where is this third speaker I hear about?

3. Does the aluminum case affect how hot this thing will get? Will aluminum be better than Titanium for not burning your lap or whatever? We've all heard the reviews and humorous "horror stories" about how hot those things get! Is this now solved as well?

4. Apple's studio "beauty shots" never do the real product justice. For those of you in Frisco or whatever (who've actually SEEN one), is this a shinier, glossier finish than the 15" Titanium PowerBook?

5. Is the hinge design the same as on the iBook? Hard to tell from photos, but looks close...

6. The RAM design/layout...your thoughts on this? Kinda sucky to saddle a "pro" level G4 laptop (regardless of size) with a soldered 128MB chip, thereby limiting the max RAM to only 640? That, so far, would be my only gripe. Either have two user accessible slots (up to 1GB) or, if you're going to permanently solder a DIMM to the motherboard, humor us and make it a 256MB.



7. I keep hearing "12 inches". Is the screen, then, actually a tiny tad smaller than the 12" iBook (12.1", all the specs say). No big deal, of course...just curious.

8. Anyone kinda miffed that the cool new illuminated keyboard idea didn't make it to this model?

9. How long will (or should) it take for all these great enhancements/tweaks (improved AirPort reception, non-scratch case, Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, side-accessible ports, etc.) make it to the 15" PowerBook?

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #2 of 38
I can answer some of your questions...

3. I heard that aluminium is about 10 times better at dispersing heat than titanium. I also heard that Titanium is about the worst possible case material except for its light weight and slightly better flexibility/durability than aluminium.

5. It sure looks like the hinge is the same type as on the iBook. You get a good look at it from the side during the promotional video that had Phil Schiller. It looks just like my iBook? even the ports are in the same place, but with the Kensington lock slot near the front instead of near the back, and with an audio-in port as well as an audio-out port.

6. I agree that putting a limit of 640 MB on this is a big mistake. Apple can argue for soldering 128 MB on the motherboard of a consumer machine by saying that the average consumer won't need more than 640 MB during the life of the machine, but a pro machine? It really looks like they just strapped a G4 to an iBook motherboard because of that? it's still a great, promising product, but that low RAM limit is frustrating.

7. I haven't seen one in person but I strongly believe that the screen is the exact same one as on the iBook. It would cost more to put a smaller screen in it because it would require new manufacturing processes. The iBook has about 3/4 of an inch on all sides of the screen, so I have no problem believing that they could make the enclosure slightly smaller and still have the same size screen in it.

8. Yeah, it would be cool. I think they don't want to put so much stuff in the 12" that isn't in the 15", lest they make the 15" seem even worse than it already is compared to the new models. The 12" already has DDR, Bluetooth, a 24x burning combo drive, optional Airport Extreme, and much better Airport range going for it over the 15" version. Putting much more in it would totally kill 15" PowerBook sales.

9. I'm guessing the TiBook will get the various enhancements between April and June. That allows 5-7 months for an update, which seems reasonable. At the same time, the iBook will get updates too, with Airport Extreme, possibly bluetooth (maybe just as an option), a GHz processor (or at least 900 MHz, possibly 933 MHz if the iMac gets a 133 or faster bus as well), and the same bottom-loading doors for RAM and Airport like on the new PowerBooks.

I have a feeling that the various limitations of the 12" model, specifically the low RAM limit and lack of certain features like L3 cache, gigabit ethernet, and FireWire 800, will be addressed within the next few revisions. It's a thrown-together rev. A product and it sure looks like one - a bit too much like the iBook to be a professional-level product in my opinion. More of a prosumer iBook. I still want one
post #3 of 38
1 + 2. Two on the back of the AluBook, and one under the keyboard for the middletones. Pretty smart!

4. Havent seen it yet, but I think its a bit whiter.
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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post #4 of 38
Thread Starter 
Yeah. That's why, in another thread, I commented that I was kinda surprised that - in addition to unveiling the new 12" and 17" PowerBooks - Apple didn't also simply rev its existing (and POPULAR) 15" model with the new body, improved AirPort, etc.

In other words, made the entire PowerBook line killer and unified. Instead of making the 15" look a little weak and suddenly much less cool than it was two days ago.



The 12", 15" and 17" PowerBooks should all share the same appearance, materials, port layout, good AirPort reception, Bluetooth, DDR, illuminated keyboard, etc. All that stuff (along with the G4, of course) would nicely set them all off from the iBook line, BUT give enough price/size variations within the PowerBook line to meet most everyone's wishes.

I wouldn't buy a 15" PowerBook (knowing what we know now about how much better the new ones are in many areas) for all the tea in China!

I'd simply wait until they applied all those "fixes" and tweaks to it as well.

Again, I was just kinda surprised they didn't whip out all three sizes yesterday. Left the 15" model in the lurch, looking a bit "uh, hello...what about me?"

post #5 of 38
Aluminum is great for putting on your lap, if you've cooked something in the oven with aluminum foil, you'll notice that you can easily touch the foil even though the food is blazing hot.

More technically:
It takes 0.52 Joules to raise 1 gram of titanium by 1?K
It takes 0.90 Joules to raise 1 gram of Aluminum by 1?K
So Al is about 2x better in terms of getting hotter

and the thermal conductivity:
Al: 237 Joules/(m*s*?K)
Ti: 21.9 Joules/(m*s*?K)

so Al dissapates heat about 10x faster
I wonder if the laptop will be cool to the touch all the time... that would indeed be cool :cool:
post #6 of 38
Thread Starter 
Holy cow...a scientist!



Now THAT'S the kind of informed, no-bullcrap (and backed up with facts, formulas, etc.) answers I like from around here!



Cool. Then they'll HAVE to move the 15" model to aluminum at some point, right?
post #7 of 38
Just buy the 12" and forget about it. You know you want to. It has everything you have always wanted, and will ever want. It will make your life 10 times better.

DO IT PAUL.



BTW, you used your iMac for a year with 256 MB of RAM, and now you're upset at a 640 MB ceiling?

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
post #8 of 38
murbot's right about the RAM thing, Paul
post #9 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by chych:
<strong>Aluminum is great for putting on your lap, if you've cooked something in the oven with aluminum foil, you'll notice that you can easily touch the foil even though the food is blazing hot. ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

That has to do with how thin the foil is. Foil that thin doesn't carry a lot of heat in the square inch of it that you touch. Stick a block of Al in the oven and pick it up ... I dare ya.

My boss tells me that Ti cannot be anodized. So when they moved to Al it made the anodized color possible.
post #10 of 38
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>murbot's right about the RAM thing, Paul </strong><hr></blockquote>

I FINALLY installed some RAM and now have 512MB. Leave me alone!

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #11 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>My boss tells me that Ti cannot be anodized. So when they moved to Al it made the anodized color possible.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is your wife a metallurgist?
post #12 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by murbot:
<strong>

Is your wife a metallurgist? </strong><hr></blockquote>

No my boss at work. He knows almost everything.
post #13 of 38
anodized titanium? I've seen it on bicycle parts and jewelry before.

<a href="http://www.danklarmann.com/art4sale.html" target="_blank">http://www.danklarmann.com/art4sale.html</a>
post #14 of 38
Titanium definitely can be anodized. See the link above.
post #15 of 38
7. yeah the screen is the same 12.1" as the ibook... it even says it in the apple spec... by the way the new apple specs have since recently been provided as pdf documents so look for those on the spec page because the one on the website isn't as detailed.

by the way does anyone know what the resolution of the audio out port is... I really really wish apple would bump them to 24bit or put a PC card slot in the 12" but i'd prefer the former.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: neovirusnine ]</p>
post #16 of 38
ALUMINIUM. I insist.
post #17 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>

No my boss at work. He knows almost everything.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wow.

It has all became...so clear...

Now we know who crams all of that false info into your head...poor thing.
post #18 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by neovirusnine:
<strong>by the way does anyone know what the resolution of the audio out port is... I really really wish apple would bump them to 24bit or put a PC card slot in the 12" but i'd prefer the former.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you mean 24-bit per channel sampling resolution? If not, what do you mean?

You'd be lucky to get a true 16-bits worth of resolution from an A-to-D converter crammed into as noisy an electromagnetic environment as the innards of a laptop.
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Peter came out and gave us medals
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post #19 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by soulcrusher:
<strong>ALUMINIUM. I insist.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.word-detective.com/042702.html#aluminium" target="_blank">http://www.word-detective.com/042702.html#aluminium</a>

Long story short, both are correct, in a way.
post #20 of 38
Thread Starter 
Ooh, just remembered another question:

10. I take it (kinda assuming, but also thought I saw it mentioned here) that this 12" PowerBook can't drive an Apple Studio (or Cinema) Display? Is that because of no DVI jack?

So if I got this thing, for home use, I'd just simply have to buy a non-Apple (non-ADC, in other words) display?

Am I right or wrong on this?

I'd LOVE to have this 12" PowerBook hooked to a 15" or 17" Studio Display while at home.
post #21 of 38
VGA out. You can hook it up to a max output of 1600x1200, so with the appropriate adaptor it could drive a 22" cinema display, but why bother? There are some good analogue/digital panels out there to serve your needs, so you can hook up through VGA (not ideal) and later on through DVI, if you get another machine.

For now, I'll use my very nice CRT, and if I happen across a good deal on a VGA/DVI panel, I'll snap one up.
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post #22 of 38
Thread Starter 
Do they make a VGA to ADC connector? Is that possible? I'm not being dense, I just didn't think, for some reason, the little 12" PowerBook could run an actual Apple flat panel (which, of course, is the height of idiocy on Apple's part).

I know the 15" and 17" models can.

This is from the spec section at Apple's site:

[quote]- ADC output using optional Apple DVI to ADC Adapter (15-inch and 17-inch models) (6)

- DVI output port (15-inch and 17-inch models)

- VGA output using included Apple VGA Display Adapter (12-inch model)

- VGA output using included Apple DVI to VGA Adapter (15-inch and 17-inch models)<hr></blockquote>

Wouldn't the 12" PowerBook have to sport a DVI output port to do the ADC (Apple flat panel) thing? Unless there is indeed some sort of VGA to ADC solution?

Forgive me...I'm a tad ignorant on some of these more "techie" issues. I'm not 100% up on the whole VGA/DVI/ADC thing.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #23 of 38
There are VGA to ADC and VGA to DVI, but they're pricey. DVI to ADC is a simple affair and less costly because the signal is the same. I think DVI is best for laptops anyway. Many of NEC's panels have both a VGA and DVI input, get one of those.
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post #24 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
<strong>

Wow.

It has all became...so clear...

Now we know who crams all of that false info into your head...poor thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>


You don't know my boss. He's from Hong Kong and has a PhD in plasma physics. I think. Then worked in medical imaging where he met his wife, a PhD also. He cracks open the wiring diagram of $2 million hardware and tells the service rep where to test the continuity and voltage and then tells you tell you how his second order differential equation is different from the published literature. He's brilliant. Optics, electronics, mathematics, physics the guy blows me away from day to day. He was telling me stuff about the 17" and 12 powerbooks I didnt know 12 hours after the keynote. Oh and hes always ready to help and tells you everything he know.

Oh BTW what "false" info?

He thinks Allen Alda is famous because of "Scientific American Frontiers" on PBS. Literaly!
post #25 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>


You don't know my boss. He's from Hong Kong and has a PhD in plasma physics. I think. Then worked in medical imaging where he met his wife, a PhD also. He cracks open the wiring diagram of $2 million hardware and tells the service rep where to test the continuity and voltage and then tells you tell you how his second order differential equation is different from the published literature. He's brilliant. Optics, electronics, mathematics, physics the guy blows me away from day to day. He was telling me stuff about the 17" and 12 powerbooks I didn?t know 12 hours after the keynote. Oh and he?s always ready to help and tells you everything he know.

Oh BTW what "false" info?

He thinks Allen Alda is famous because of "Scientific American Frontiers" on PBS. Literaly!</strong><hr></blockquote>

So... he's one of those educated people who say things like they're always right, even when <a href="http://www.metalast.com/technology/Research_PDF/Technical_Bulletins/Processes/Ti.pdf" target="_blank">they're not</a>.

And you're one of those people foolish enough to believe everything he says.

[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: tonton ]</p>
post #26 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>

I wouldn't buy a 15" PowerBook (knowing what we know now about how much better the new ones are in many areas) for all the tea in China!

I'd simply wait until they applied all those "fixes" and tweaks to it as well.

Again, I was just kinda surprised they didn't whip out all three sizes yesterday. Left the 15" model in the lurch, looking a bit "uh, hello...what about me?"

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah but now you can get refurb 15inch 1ghz w/ super drive and 64 meg vram 512 ram 60 gig HD Tibooks for only 2549 at smalldog.com and That ain't not bad

I would love the back lit keyboard, better airport and firewire 800 but 12 inch is too small for me, and 17 inch is too big...so as it stands I'm getting a 15 ich powerbook in a week or so
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post #27 of 38
This is a silly question, I think, but I dunno...these things can still boot into OS 9, right?

I see that OS 9.2 is conspicuously absent from the list of software that comes bundled with the new PB's.
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post #28 of 38
os x only....sez in the specs at apple and stevie sez so at the expo...g

ps...personally i haven't booted to 9 in almost a year...expect for doing the firmware update 4.1.9 for my superdrive (so faster media won't kill my computer)...never even use classic, except when i open something by accident...notice that classic environment is opening and say "shit" and close it and try to remember not to use that program till it gets X native...g

[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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post #29 of 38
what is actually in there or missing from the new macs that doesnt allow it to start up in OS9?
not that i need OS9, i was just wondering...

if i get a 15" TiBook and cover the bottom with aluminum foil before putting it on my lap, ya think it will feel cooler?
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post #30 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>os x only....sez in the specs at apple and stevie sez so at the expo...g</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm. I heard the same from the people on the G-Books list. I'm sure that will give more than a few people pause in their rush to buy their AlBooks or Lapzillas (or whatever the hell you want to call them ).

Does anyone know if it's just OS9 booting off the HD which is banned, or is OS9 CD booting banned as well? I for one would at least like the ability to use 9 from a CD to use stuff like DiskWarrior or TTP.
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post #31 of 38
Now, do we think that they are going to throw DDR 333 in to the 15" TiBook, or are they going to go with DDR 266 as in the 12". Also it is not the smartest thing to try and get around the 10 only boot. We run a network where all the clients are on OS9 (a school) and we have an ASR set up for all of our machines. We have had problems with different ASR's between the different iBook models and when we tried to use our OS9 ASR with a 700MHz iBook, the screen sized decreased to have the actual 12.1" landscape... all the actual screen content is there just on in a 4x5" area in the center of the screen. Apple cant even fix it, and to reinstall OSX, you need to be in OSX. Long story short, OS9 booting is dead, cremated and its ashes have been dumped into the ocean... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #32 of 38
Each new model/bump will in its turn drop OS9 support. Soon there will be a very profitable pool of users for anyone who makes an OSX native diskwarrior type app. For me, the switch from windows to mac (excluding my OS9 lab use of a couple of years back) will just be simpler without worrying about 9 and X. As long as all the right X apps materialize over the next few months, most are here already.

[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
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post #33 of 38
Thread Starter 
I agree...X is where it's at, where Apple needs to pool all their resources and efforts and where Mac developers need to throw their eggs into.
post #34 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by icruise:
<strong>

<a href="http://www.word-detective.com/042702.html#aluminium" target="_blank">http://www.word-detective.com/042702.html#aluminium</a>

Long story short, both are correct, in a way.</strong><hr></blockquote>"Aluminium," however, is the official spelling used by international chemical societies. Let's stay official

- T.I.
post #35 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>Oh and hes always ready to help and tells you everything he knows.</strong><hr></blockquote>Get him to post here

- T.I.
post #36 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by rampancy:
<strong>Does anyone know if it's just OS9 booting off the HD which is banned, or is OS9 CD booting banned as well? I for one would at least like the ability to use 9 from a CD to use stuff like DiskWarrior or TTP.</strong><hr></blockquote>from <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001963" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001963</a>

I am a certified Apple Technician for an ASP in Tulsa. I have already been trained in the new PB technology.

THE NEW POWERBOOKS WILL NOT BOOT OFF OF ANY VOLUME OTHER THAN ONE THAT IS RUNNING OS X 10.2 JAGUAR. YOU CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT BOOT TO OS 9 IN ANY SHAPE, MATTER, OR FORM...bye bye OS 9.


- T.I.
post #37 of 38
Disk Warrior for Mac OS X will be out around April/June/July
post #38 of 38
[quote]Originally posted by The Installer:
<strong>from <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001963" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001963</a>

I am a certified Apple Technician for an ASP in Tulsa. I have already been trained in the new PB technology.

THE NEW POWERBOOKS WILL NOT BOOT OFF OF ANY VOLUME OTHER THAN ONE THAT IS RUNNING OS X 10.2 JAGUAR. YOU CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT BOOT TO OS 9 IN ANY SHAPE, MATTER, OR FORM...bye bye OS 9.


- T.I.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No linux boot?

Amorya
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