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Apple 17" Cinema display speculation?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I've been seeing speculation about Apple launching a new 17" display for months (years?) now, curious to see what other forum readers think the odds of this happening are?

I really believe that the lack of a 17" panel is currently a gaping hole in Apple's model line-up, particularly now with the launch of the Mac mini (the current EOL 17" for $1000CND doesn't count, it's priced outrageously). I'm going to be in the market to buy at least two flat panels in the near future, currently looking at Samsungs, but I sure wish that Apple would do a 17" before then.

If Apple were to launch a 17" panel, I would expect them to differentiate it by being a widescreen format device. The 20" Cinema display now retails for $1250 in Canada, and my expectation for a 17" model would be approx $700.

Any comments/thoughts?
post #2 of 23
If apple were going to do a 17" display, it would have been released alongside the Mac mini.
post #3 of 23
I have a Samsung 172W 17" widescreen (1280x768 ) display. It's really impressive, and it cost me £350 (~C$819) a year ago. I'd really like an Apple 20 or 23 inch to go with my PowerBook now though as the 17" Samsung gains artifacts on screen if you don't run it at 75Hz, something I haven't found out how to do in Mac OS X.
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post #4 of 23
I don't think we'll see it. I would love it though. Currently I run a 17" Apple Display alongside a 20" Apple display and they work so nicely together. I think two 20"s side-by-side would be too much, space-wise.
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post #5 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by ajprice
If apple were going to do a 17" display, it would have been released alongside the Mac mini.

A lot of people expected the aluminum display update and 30 inch to happen alongside the G5, that didnt happen - I say look for mini rev b and $299 alu. 17 inch at Paris and shipping in time for XMAS 05 - Hey - you got the mac, now get rid of the clunky Dell crt...
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post #6 of 23
No, I wouldn't expect one. They can't price compete on straight hardware such as an LCD (the iPod shuffle doesn't count as an example, due to lower component costs with no display)... companies with higher purchasing power can easily undercut Apple. Besides, some third-party LCDs have a one-up on Apple, with inputs for S-video/composite that are lacking on Apple's LCDs. There would have to be a heck of an innovation to justify what would certainly be a sizable price difference on a 17" LCD. There's just no compelling reason IMO, business-wise for Apple to compete in that market segment.
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post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by MCQ
There's just no compelling reason IMO, business-wise for Apple to compete in that market segment.

The same could easily be said of the segment that the iPod Shuffle is targeted at. If the margins are there, Apple is likely to play in the segment. I don't expect Apple to compete on price, which is why I suggested that $700CND or so price for a 17" Cinema.
post #8 of 23
I think the 17" eventually will come, specially with the current success of the Mac Mini, it makes sense. Who wants to spend $999 on a 20" when you can buy the Mini for $500. The monitor cannot cost double of the CPU. it's crazy!
People that purchases the Mac Mini want bargain prices on the monitor as well. so that's where the 17" would fit so nice.
Hopefully will be priced in the $500-$700 range.
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post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by Chagi
The same could easily be said of the segment that the iPod Shuffle is targeted at. If the margins are there, Apple is likely to play in the segment. I don't expect Apple to compete on price, which is why I suggested that $700CND or so price for a 17" Cinema.

For it to be price competitive, margins would likely have to be around that of the Shuffle. It's a heck of a lot easier for Apple to sell 5-6 Shuffles than a single 17" LCD.

$560 US (converted) is expensive for a 17" LCD. If it's targeted at Mac mini buyers, I'd expect very few to get it... and at that price, I'd just buy a Dell 2005fpw instead for about the same or a little more. What would they compete on, if not price?

People who buy a mini will either use an existing monitor or pick up a dirt cheap CRT or $250 17" LCD. The vast majority just aren't looking for a premium (widescreen) LCD, IMO.
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post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by gugy
I think the 17" eventually will come, specially with the current success of the Mac Mini, it makes sense. Who wants to spend $999 on a 20" when you can buy the Mini for $500. The monitor cannot cost double of the CPU. it's crazy!
People that purchases the Mac Mini want bargain prices on the monitor as well. so that's where the 17" would fit so nice.
Hopefully will be priced in the $500-$700 range.

people who buy mac mini will BYKMM keyboard, mouse, monitor, otherwise buy the iMac G5? no one in their right mind is going to buy a mac mini G4 with 20" display instead of buying iMac G5?
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by MCQ
$560 US (converted) is expensive for a 17" LCD. If it's targeted at Mac mini buyers, I'd expect very few to get it... and at that price, I'd just buy a Dell 2005fpw instead for about the same or a little more. What would they compete on, if not price?

Don't underestimate the appeal of being able to get something right there, right now. If the Mac mini is an impulse purchase, then anything you want to sell along with it has to be an impulse purchase too.

That doesn't mean that Apple can charge whatever they want, obviously, but it does mean that they can charge a little more than Dell does for something you can try out, pick up and take home along with your mini.

Quote:
People who buy a mini will either use an existing monitor or pick up a dirt cheap CRT or $250 17" LCD. The vast majority just aren't looking for a premium (widescreen) LCD, IMO.

No doubt a lot of people will. The question is, how many people will go into an Apple Store thinking they will, see a nice display for a pretty nice price, pick it up and take it home? A few bucks is worth not having to look all over the place, right? Besides, the kids are hungry and my feet are tired. That's the kind of consumer behavior that retail lives and breathes on.

I'm still skeptical that Apple will do anything like this, but I was also deeply skeptical that they'd release anything like the mini. Apparently even Apple is surprised by what a big deal it's become. I'd imagine they're monitoring mini buyer behavior closely in their stores, and if word reaches them that a lot of people are in fact staring at 20" Cinema Displays (whether or not they actually buy them) I can see them putting the 17" PowerBook's panel in a desktop case with a desktop backlight, packaging it in the smallest box they can manage, and putting it alongside the mini.

I've watched a lot of PC users convince themselves that they were going to just get a new box, and walk home with an entire system. I've set a lot of them up. It does happen, and Apple might be readying themselves for the possibility.
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post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
I'd imagine they're monitoring mini buyer behavior closely in their stores...

I think this is exactly the case. I'd bet there are two factors at play here: one, they're studying buyer behavior to see just how many people DO actually use a third-party monitor with the mini, vs. how many would buy a new Apple display; and two, they're waiting for a price break on the components so they can do a small display at a reasonable price. They don't have to compete dollar-for-dollar with other vendors; they just need to be in the ballpark, as Amorph says.

Really, there's no reason NOT to do a small display - the cost of engineering and production would be minimal - unless Apple's strategy is to try to "upsell" monitorless mini buyers to the iMac.
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
I think this is exactly the case. I'd bet there are two factors at play here: one, they're studying buyer behavior to see just how many people DO actually use a third-party monitor with the mini, vs. how many would buy a new Apple display; and two, they're waiting for a price break on the components so they can do a small display at a reasonable price. They don't have to compete dollar-for-dollar with other vendors; they just need to be in the ballpark, as Amorph says.

Really, there's no reason NOT to do a small display - the cost of engineering and production would be minimal - unless Apple's strategy is to try to "upsell" monitorless mini buyers to the iMac.

Not surprisingly, that's exactly what I believe Apple has set up, given the current pricing structure.

I certainly understand the points Amorph made. However, with the mini - there's a definitive differentiation and reason for a consumer to purchase one. It's not Windows, it's small, it might work as easily as an iPod, etc. etc. People typically already have this in their mind as they walk into the store. It's not a complete impulse purchase.

With a display, I don't see that clear, definitive reason to pick it up over a competing (cheaper) display, and I really don't see a display as an impulse purchase. Design isn't enough of an impulse, and only widescreen factor may woo someone.

I'm sure Apple is doing their market research right now to determine if it's a good move to make. I certainly don't think they'd lose money by bringing one out, but it'd make a small (miniscule even) addition to their bottom line.
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post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by MCQ
Not surprisingly, that's exactly what I believe Apple has set up, given the current pricing structure.

Yeah, the iMac is the biggest hole in this line of speculation. "Yes, we have a 17" monitor right here, and we built a better computer than the mini right into it."

Which is why they're probably watching what mini buyers do. If enough of them make a big funk about not having a separate monitor, then they might look at a 17" standalone display.

Quote:
With a display, I don't see that clear, definitive reason to pick it up over a competing (cheaper) display, and I really don't see a display as an impulse purchase. Design isn't enough of an impulse, and only widescreen factor may woo someone.

I've seen monitors become impulse purchases, though. The hook isn't design, it's how much nicer the display is than the one at home. If the price is reasonable enough to offset the trouble of looking elsewhere, some (but not all) buyers will save themselves the trouble and take home the putative Apple monitor. The question is, how many will? I can't say I have an answer to that. All I have are anecdotes of people—mostly with CRTs—coming home with shiny new LCDs that they didn't originally intend to buy, because they were so much nicer, and the price wasn't bad.

Quote:
I'm sure Apple is doing their market research right now to determine if it's a good move to make. I certainly don't think they'd lose money by bringing one out, but it'd make a small (miniscule even) addition to their bottom line.

In which case it's not really worth bothering.
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post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
A lot of people expected the aluminum display update and 30 inch to happen alongside the G5, that didnt happen - I say look for mini rev b and $299 alu. 17 inch at Paris and shipping in time for XMAS 05 - Hey - you got the mac, now get rid of the clunky Dell crt...

My prediction also...
post #16 of 23
LCD screens which easily trump the old 17" Apple Cinema Display can be had for around $350 CAD, if you know where the good PC deals are (if you're in the GTA, and you dont, email me).

Even the Apple authorized retail stores, at least in Toronto, which tend to have higher prices than the bargain basement PC stores (its a tough industry, there's no margins in Apple products, so they have to make money in other ways) have 17" LCD displays which rarely cost more than $500 CAD.

The point is, Apple cannot re-enter the 17" market and hope to compete - nor would I want to sell a higher priced Apple display to my Mac Mini customers, which would garner me less profit anyways.
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post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by eat@me
people who buy mac mini will BYKMM keyboard, mouse, monitor, otherwise buy the iMac G5? no one in their right mind is going to buy a mac mini G4 with 20" display instead of buying iMac G5?

unless the Mac mini is temporary - waiting for more money for an upgrade to a PowerMac/Book
post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by sorhed


The point is, Apple cannot re-enter the 17" market and hope to compete - nor would I want to sell a higher priced Apple display to my Mac Mini customers, which would garner me less profit anyways.

Wrong, a company can always re-enter a market, and they can always compete, just a question of where the new display would lie on the quality vs. price continuum.
post #19 of 23
maybe i got some hot infos for you:

on the website of our apple reseller called Gravis, following things are written on the info-page about EDU rebates:

Apple 17" Display 40,00
Apple 20" Display 50,00
Apple 23" Display 80,00
Apple 30" Display 80,00

wooot? 17" display? this entry is definetly new - last week there was nothing about a 17" display? seems like there's something comin up

check this: http://www.gravis.de/bildung/index.html
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by derrobin
maybe i got some hot infos for you:

on the website of our apple reseller called Gravis, following things are written on the info-page about EDU rebates:

Apple 17" Display 40,00
Apple 20" Display 50,00
Apple 23" Display 80,00
Apple 30" Display 80,00

wooot? 17" display? this entry is definetly new - last week there was nothing about a 17" display? seems like there's something comin up

check this: http://www.gravis.de/bildung/index.html

apple wouldn't tell a reseller before they announce it. Also it probably applies to the old 17" studio display.
post #21 of 23
So if its the old 17" display, which is long gone now, why is it there this week when it wasn't there last week?
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by ajprice
So if its the old 17" display, which is long gone now, why is it there this week when it wasn't there last week?

I don't know maybe they found the key to their cupboard! I really don't think a German site would get 17" displays before anyone else.
post #23 of 23
Notice that the 30" and 23" are both selling for the same price. I think they need to get their info right.
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