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Will Tiger feel faster?

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
Heya!

I recently purchased my first Mac, a Powerbook G4 12" 1.5 ghZ.
I noticed resizing Windows in Panther is really slow, and the OS in general feels more sluggish than Windows (because it does more fancy things, I know).

Will my laptop benefit of Tiger? Isn't it already the case that all stuff in MacOS is rendered through the GPU?
post #2 of 72
Not exactly. Stuff is composited (mapped onto surfaces and layered) on the GPU, but a lot of actual rendering is still done on the CPU and passed on.

I can't comment on current performance and details, but I'll say that I think you'll like Tiger for several reasons.
post #3 of 72
Thread Starter 
Okay cool:-)

With "not exactly", do you mean that my laptop won't benefit, or did you refer to the CPU/GPU stuff?
post #4 of 72
In Tiger, much more will be done by the GPU - so yes, you should be happy with Tiger :3
Now running on a 20" aluminium iMac (Fall 2008), as well as a Macboook Pro 13" (mid 2009) and an iPhone.
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Now running on a 20" aluminium iMac (Fall 2008), as well as a Macboook Pro 13" (mid 2009) and an iPhone.
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post #5 of 72
Thread Starter 
Yeeeha! I hope it won't be very expensive for 10.3 users then...
post #6 of 72
How much ram do you have now? I just got a 12" G4 iBook and nothing seems sluggish on it.

I have 1.25 gig ram though.

ERic
Hard-Core.
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post #7 of 72
I'm curious myself. Both of my Macs have 32mb R9200s, so I hope they will do well to accelerate these enhancements. Of course, price is always an issue determining if I buy.
post #8 of 72
i think Tiger will feel cold and plasticky
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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post #9 of 72
Tiger will be as fast as the marketing hype behind it.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #10 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ZO
i think Tiger will feel cold and plasticky

With a slight whiff of rubber coating here and there ;-)
post #11 of 72
Are you guys talking about the Tiger box or your tigy bath toys?
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #12 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
How much ram do you have now? I just got a 12" G4 iBook and nothing seems sluggish on it.

I don't think resizing a Window will be any faster on a Powerbook equipped with 1.5 GB RAM. I think it's more CPU/GPU work for the computer, not RAM.

I just think resizing windows on MacOS is very slow, too slow. Moving Windows on the other hand goes very smooth.
post #13 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by dacloo
I don't think resizing a Window will be any faster on a Powerbook equipped with 1.5 GB RAM. I think it's more CPU/GPU work for the computer, not RAM.

I just think resizing windows on MacOS is very slow, too slow. Moving Windows on the other hand goes very smooth.

But in Tiger window resizing seems to be faster. It's not as smooth as moving a window but it's seems faster than Panther. Maybe in benefit from Core Image.

8A369 has still some display bug (content of window can appear black sometimes) which tends to demonstrate than GUI rendering has been alter (and hopefully optimized).
post #14 of 72
Currently when you resize a window the entire content is redrawn. Based on the available information on Tiger (could not find the link) this is changed. Only the portion which needs redraw will be refreshed. This most likely will improve performance on this particular action.
post #15 of 72
Interesting. I could see how this method of resizing windows could offer a slight speed boost.
post #16 of 72
Thread Starter 
nice. can't wait for Tiger.
post #17 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by shadow
Currently when you resize a window the entire content is redrawn. Based on the available information on Tiger (could not find the link) this is changed. Only the portion which needs redraw will be refreshed. This most likely will improve performance on this particular action.

Holy shit!

If they finally got around to implementing this, then dirty region calculations might actually be put to use. It took me forever to figure out that the API was there but the dirty region info was simply being discarded.

Have they finally fixed the dirty region redraw mechanism in cocoa? That, even without CI, would make a huge difference in speed.
post #18 of 72
God... I hate going the sophmoric route, but...

hehehe... You said "Dirty Region"... heheh

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"I drank what...?"
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post #19 of 72
I have the same computer as the original poster. I'm also hoping to have things feel speedier in Tiger. Actually, now that I'm all setup with my new Powerbook and cinema display, the operating system is the next big thing for me. I can't wait until Tiger!
*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ibook911
I'm also hoping to have things feel speedier in Tiger.

Apple has switched to GCC 4.0 for Tiger. That alone should speed things up. (It generates faster code).
post #21 of 72
The short answer is - it depends on your GPU.

Panther has Quartz Extreme - this is only to speed up COMPOSITING of the graphics, not the drawing. This requires any RADEON or gForceMX or better.

Tiger has a new thing called Core Image, but this is mainly for effects like Photoshop does, i.e. making little programs for the GPU. Core Video is just the same things applied to video.

Now, the really important thing for USERS is Quartz 2-D Extreme. THIS is the feature that sends almost all of the 2-D drawing straight to the GPU using the OpenGL features. This is what speeds up the window resizing. And I have to say I heard a rumor, if you know what I mean, that window resizing on Tiger is finally superfast.

The problem is that Quartz 2-D Extreme requires better GPUs than Quartz Extreme - it will require either a ATI 9600 Pro or better, or an nVidia 5200 go or better. The 9200 in the Mac mini and the 12" PB won't be able to dump those calculations on the GPU and will use Altivec.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #22 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by lundy

The problem is that Quartz 2-D Extreme requires better GPUs than Quartz Extreme - it will require either a ATI 9600 Pro or better, or an nVidia 5200 go or better. The 9200 in the Mac mini and the 12" PB won't be able to dump those calculations on the GPU and will use Altivec.

Great. Now my new 12 inch Powerbook can't take advantage of Tiger However, the 12 inch has 5200 Go, so why can't it take advantage?
*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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post #23 of 72
The 12" PB will "take advantage" of Tiger just fine. I can't comment on anything specifically, but I'm using a beta version of Tiger on a 700 Mhz G4 iMac and I think things look good for the most part. Some things are fast, some slow, some buggy, some broken, and I can't claim to have really tested all parts of the OS thoroughly. Also, developers and the quality of their applications make a difference here too, not just the OS or the hardware.
post #24 of 72
Lundy states that the 12" PowerBook has a Radeon 9200, which is incorrect and probably the source of the confusion.
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post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ibook911
Great. Now my new 12 inch Powerbook can't take advantage of Tiger However, the 12 inch has 5200 Go, so why can't it take advantage?

My mistake - please accept my apologies. Somehow I was reading the post where the poster said he had 2 9200's and I got that mixed up with the PB post.

Yes, they have the 5200go so according to the list Apple put up (and now has removed), they should be able to use Quartz 2-D Extreme.

But no such luck for the Mac mini.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #26 of 72
Does anyone know if Safari in Tiger has developed speed? From my personal use, Firefox beats Safari hands down. Has this changed in Tiger? I love the look and feel of Safari and the new features in Tiger seem superb, but I need the speed to catch-up to Firefox.
*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
The 12" PB will "take advantage" of Tiger just fine. I can't comment on anything specifically, but I'm using a beta version of Tiger on a 700 Mhz G4 iMac and I think things look good for the most part. Some things are fast, some slow, some buggy, some broken, and I can't claim to have really tested all parts of the OS thoroughly. Also, developers and the quality of their applications make a difference here too, not just the OS or the hardware.

I agree with BuonRotto. I'm on a 12" iBook and "some things are fast, some slow".

A week ago my 512Mb stick of RAM went bad, so now I'm only running the built-in 256Mb and 8A369 is enjoyable and quite usable.
Spotlight is quite snappyª
post #28 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ibook911
Does anyone know if Safari in Tiger has developed speed? From my personal use, Firefox beats Safari hands down. Has this changed in Tiger? I love the look and feel of Safari and the new features in Tiger seem superb, but I need the speed to catch-up to Firefox.

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html indicates significant performance increases in Safari 2.0. I can't vouch for the results, but it seems reasonable to expect Safari to improve in Tiger.
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post #29 of 72
All of this talk makes me incredibly anxious for Tiger. Please Apple, not much more waiting!
*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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post #30 of 72
interesting to see that the mac browsers are comparable in speed to the x86 platform. People keep complaining that browsing on the mac is so slow, but it seems that safari 2 will make it as fast or faster than anything out there. css, multi image, and tables tests are the 3 that really indicate the browser speed for the most part, and safari 2 will kick butt in those areas. (plus it was just a preview that was tested- good chance the final will be faster)

Also tiger will force developers even more to move away from quickdraw, which will mean more speed in old proggies
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post #31 of 72
Perceived browser speed has a lot to do with partial page display while the page is still being downloaded.

Those stats are encouraging... but only part of the picture. Even if safari displays the final downloaded page quickly, it won't seem quick unless the window is updated numerous times prior to the entire page being fully downloaded.

Can anybody report on this specifically?
post #32 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by dacloo
I don't think resizing a Window will be any faster on a Powerbook equipped with 1.5 GB RAM. I think it's more CPU/GPU work for the computer, not RAM.

I just think resizing windows on MacOS is very slow, too slow. Moving Windows on the other hand goes very smooth.

I find both fine
post #33 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by ibook911
All of this talk makes me incredibly anxious for Tiger. Please Apple, not much more waiting!

This is the same crap we went through before with Panther and Jaguar. The thing is if Apple doesn't completly (revamp/rewite/do a vodoo dance) on the FInder the speed issue will still be there, I have the latest Tiger seed and I so far don't see much in improvements in that area. Though everthing else is looking mighty nifty
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #34 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
I find both fine

What are you a masochist?
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
What are you a masochist?

Ok people i see your point resizing could be slightly faster. But on my machine it isn't a big problem. There's a bit of a lag but if you use column view (like I do) I very rarely change the size of my windows.
post #36 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Ok people i see your point resizing could be slightly faster

Slightly? MacOS is dog slow with wndow resizing. It needs to be 8-10 times faster I think. I worked a lot with Windows and BeOS, and fast window handling is important; usability goes a long way.
post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Finlayson
God... I hate going the sophmoric route, but...

hehehe... You said "Dirty Region"... heheh


Beat me to it.
post #38 of 72
As a member of the developer program, and running the current build of Tiger on my 17" powerbook, I can say that it feels substantially faster.

The only caveat to that is Mail.app. Granted, I imported 10k+ messages, but launching seems more pokey than the 10.3 version of mail.

Thanks. Will.
post #39 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by UEArchitect
As a member of the developer program, and running the current build of Tiger on my 17" powerbook, I can say that it feels substantially faster.

The only caveat to that is Mail.app. Granted, I imported 10k+ messages, but launching seems more pokey than the 10.3 version of mail.

Thanks. Will.

thanks for that. however users like us have 128MB video ram!
post #40 of 72
I PERSONALLY TRIED TIGER MY SELF, AND LET ME TELL U THIS THAT OPERATING SYSTEM IS KICK ASS..

I NEVER SEEN ANY OPERATING SYSTEM LIKE THAT... I USED THE PRE RELEASED VERSION.

I CAN'T WAIT TO BUY THE COPY WHEN IT COMES OUT...

IT HAVE MANY FEATURES THAT U NEED TO USE IT , THAT CAN NOT BE DESCRIBED BY WORDS..

SPEED IS GREAT
LOOK IS GREAT
PRICE IS GREAT
SECURITY IS GREAT
FUNCTIONS GREAT
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