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The realistic MWSF '02 thread

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
You guys will be severly dissapointed when the G5 doesnt come (I hope I am wrong) and the host of other things you want so here are my expectations:

Pro Line:
1066Mhz G4 Single (1)
900 Dual G4 (2)
866Mhz entry level (3)

1) 1024 MB RAM, 80 GB HD, Geoforce III, same case, Superdrive = $2599

2) 1024 MB RAM, 100 GB HD, Geoforce III, same case, superdrive = $3599

3) 512 MB RAM, 60 GB HD, Geoforce II, same case, DVD/CD-R drive = $1699

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: MajorMatt ]</p>
post #2 of 52
Surely we have got to see some sort of new iMac?!

iMac just does nothing for me anymore. And I don't want just a speedbump and a colour change, I want something ground breaking.

J
post #3 of 52
PowerMacs
No G5 but Steve says they are coming "soon"
Same mother board as current
Same prices
Same vid card
Same case
RAM: 256,512, 512
HD: 60, 80, 90
867 MHz, 933 MHz, 1GHz, Dual 1GHz (?) or Dual 933 (?)
Super Drive across line


iMac
Same prices
Same vid card
Combo drive top end only
15" CRT and 14" TFT
G3 700, G3 800, G3 900, G3 1Ghz (?)
RAM 128 low / 256 high end
$100 increase in top TFT model
TFT model won't ship right away.

No new iBook
No new TiBook

OS 10.2

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: imacSE ]</p>
post #4 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by imacSE:
<strong>PowerMacs
No G5 but Steve says they are coming "soon"
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you think the revised G4 would sell very well if Steve hinted that G5s were coming soon? I don't.

J
post #5 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by jamiemarshall:
<strong>

Do you think the revised G4 would sell very well if Steve hinted that G5s were coming soon? I don't.

J</strong><hr></blockquote>

By "soon" I meant months. I'm not saying he would talk about the G5s but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.
post #6 of 52
If the G5 doesn't come at MWSF I don't think Steve would say it's coming soon.
post #7 of 52
I can't remember Steve ever introducing a product and talking about its successor at the same time. It wouldn't make good business sense.

J
post #8 of 52
DUAL G5 iBOOK with SUPERDRIVE!!! all other models cancelled. Apple gets the prices down by having just one model with more performance than anything available in either the laptop or desktop space.

Starting at 999 Canadian with options up to 1999.
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post #9 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>If the G5 doesn't come at MWSF I don't think Steve would say it's coming soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fine. What do you think we can really expect at MWSF?

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: imacSE ]</p>
post #10 of 52
What can we expect?

Expect Steve to demo some new minimizing effects on stage and this demo takes about half of the keynote time.

Then again use *only* Photshop to show how the dual 800 G4 beats the 2Ghz P4...then the MegaHurtz myth talk (this time twice as long as in MWNY)

If Apple really has nothing to talk or show Steve better not making any speech for the Keynote. This will make him silly.

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
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post #11 of 52
FASTEST: 1Gig G4 100GB HD
FASTER: 900MHz 80GB HD
FAST: 800MHz 60GB HD

DDR RAM, Processor daughtercard on all models has ZIF socket for additional processor, build to order as duals or via third party upgrade.

iMac2: 733MHz G4 slot loading DVD/CD-RW combo drive. Built into 15" LCD Studio Display (speakers built into legs)

iMac: Same stuff with speed bump G3 and entry level pricing

iBook & TiBook: unchanged until Tokyo
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post #12 of 52
- no G5, no word about it either
- Top-of-the-line will move to 1.3Ghz "shipping within 6 weeks"
- Dual goes up to 933 or 1Ghz
- Firewire2 will be introduced, USB2 _not_
- iMac will be replaced by something with a TFT.

Jobs will ramble about Photoshop 7 native for X and 10.2 with increased performance
post #13 of 52
Realistic?

Okay, no G5. And some of you better get used to that idea or I'm afraid of a massive wrist-slitting ritual from some of you come MWSF!

G4 will break the GHz barrier (only about time!) and hard drive bumps.

Nothing on iBook or TiBook...they were just revved, for crying out loud! Some of you people actually thinking Apple is getting down to three month revision cycles are losing it.

A new iApp, dealing with digital photography.

The big star of the show will be a new iMac. It will be an LCD model and it will sport a combo drive. But no G4...just a high (800MHz or so) G3. But a combo drive will be an option, and it'll ship with a better video card.

The iMac will finally get its long-awaited redesign/revamp and we will all rejoice.

However, being Apple, they won't do the expected or what they SHOULD (that is, make it look all cool and white and glossy like it's laptop cousin, the iBook). No, they'll do something totally stupid to make it look weirder than it should, like a dark purple anondized enclosure or something completely out of left field that NOBODY IS ASKING FOR, when the answer is staring them right in the face and looks great: glossy, clean iBook white.



Mark my words. I'd bet my left lung that as cool as the new iMac will be, there will be one major shortcoming or glaring omission that will keep it from being the ultimate all-in-one (it'll come in an ugly color, it'll have a lame-ass, substandard video card, it won't have speakers built in, etc.).

It's Apple, folks. And as much as I love them and as cool as their stuff is (and at this point I'd never use anything else but a Mac), but fact is they have an IMPECCABLE record here lately that for every cool step forward, they take a half-step or full step backward in another area and drop the ball in some unbelievable, jaw-dropping way.

Just watch...

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #14 of 52
Dorsal?
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17" iMac G5
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17" iMac G5
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post #15 of 52
hey pscates. I don't really case if the new iMac doesn't come with built in speakers. The one in the recent iMac is crap anyway
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post #16 of 52
Ok, I did some rational thinking last night about the G5/G4 and this is what I determined.

Every recent powermac revision has been close to a 200mhz jump. The current G4 won't scale past 1ghz. Not sure what th Apollo will scale to, but it's still a G4 and G4s are supposed to not scale that high and that's why the G5 is next.

So if the Apollo doesn't come out, this will be a wack speed jump, maybe only improving 70mhz -100mhz or so with the same old chip.

No one knows anything about the Apollo, this could be asneaky move on Apple's part but I see the Apollo going into the portables only.

So I don't see the G5 coming out in Jan (to my disappoinment) the reason? Well, the iMac's tooth is longer than the G4 and I don't see Apple releasing a new iMac and a new tower at the same show. I think the iMac takes precidence in Jan meaning only a tiny stupid speed bump in the same case G4.

So

small speedbump on the G4s
new iMac
10.2
FCP X
PS beta

..and I guess I'll wait another few months for the G5. I was really hoping the G5 would come out but I think it comes down to the iMac and not the rumors on the G5s progress. Apple wouldn't unveil two new products at the same show and I think that's why the QuickSilvers came out-to hold off the towers for 6-12 months. I think the Jan revision is the last for the current G4 tower.

This means I gotta wait longer
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post #17 of 52
Here's my prediction:

iMac - $799
Same form factor - only one version available
600 MHz PowerPC 750cxe
128 MB PC100 SDRAM (100 MHz bus)
Rage 128 w/16MB
30 GB ATA/66 drive
CD-RW
2 USB + 2 Firewire (400 Mbit/s)
100 MBit/s Ethernet
Airport optional

iMac DL (Digital Lifestyle) - $1299 to $1699
iPOD like form factor - 15 x 14 x 2 inches with white front and clear coat steel back
15.1 TFT screen
600, 733 MHz PowerPC 7440/7450 (no backside cache)
128, 256 MByte PC133 SDRAM (133 MHz bus)
Radeon w/32MB
40, 60 MByte ATA/66 drive
Combo, Superdrive opticals
2 USB + 2 Firewire (400 Mbit/s)
100 MBit/s
Airport optional

Power Macintosh G4 - $1699 to $2999
Same form factor - El Capitan case is 3 years old in MWSF02, how much more can they squeeze out of this thing? But I think they want to wait for MWNY02.
800, 933, 1067, 933x2 PowerPC 7460 w/2MB backside cache
256 to 512 MByte of PC2100 DDR SDRAM
GeForce 3 w/64 MB
60, 80, 100 GByte drives
Combo, Superdrive opticals
2 USB + 2 Firewire (800 Mbit/s)
Gigabit Ethernet
Airport optional

Some things to ponder:

1. I'm relatively skeptical that IBM will have anything faster than a 750 to 800 MHz PPC 750fx by Q1 02.

2. 600 to 733 MHz Moto 7440/7450 processors are readily available.

3. Motorola supposedly qualified their HiP 7 fab this past Summer, so a 7460 (Apollo) should be probable. 6 months to move an existing chip onto to a new process seems reasonable to me.

4. A TFT screen probably costs Apple half of what they sell it for. The rest of the costs are the form factor plastics and other support hardware (USB, power, ...) and 25% margin.
post #18 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by imacSE:
<strong>

Fine. What do you think we can really expect at MWSF?

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: imacSE ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I say we'll finally get G4s over 1 GHz and we'll probably get new iMacs.
post #19 of 52
My thread wasn't good enough?
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post #20 of 52
"Realistic"
Only Software Updates, maybe new digital hub product (Digital Video/Photo that can connect to iPod?)
10.2, FCP X, PS X, Appleworks 7 X, updated Quicktime (maybe mpeg 2/4 playback)

Between March and June... all at the same time,
G5's in Desktops 1.6, (Duel?) 2.0, 2.4 Ghz starting at $1,600
G4's (Apollo's) in Ti Books 1, 1.2 Ghz starting at $2000
G3's 800, 900, 1000 Mhz in LCD iMac ($799 and up) iBooks ($1100 and up)
post #21 of 52
They will announce a whole slew of OSX apps including Macromedia Flash/Dreamweaver for OSX and Adobe Photoshop. FCP will be announced in 2 weeks. If they get the mainstream apps after MS Office, that is when the bug migration comes to move over to OSX fully for those still on OS9.

cheaper flat planel displays. reduced price tag on iPod to 299.
post #22 of 52
If pscates is right, and he's probably close, could some of the wrist slitters donate their current macs to someone who'll appreciate them, me. Jobs-era models welcome (aswell as netwons). So come on, slit those wrists, just make sure you UPS your macs over to me first. hehe
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post #23 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>DUAL G5 iBOOK with SUPERDRIVE!!! all other models cancelled. Apple gets the prices down by having just one model with more performance than anything available in either the laptop or desktop space.

Starting at 999 Canadian with options up to 1999. </strong><hr></blockquote>

What's that, like $16 US
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post #24 of 52
I think many of you forgot the "realistic" in the topic. Look at past trends. Assuming everything stays regular we will have iMacs clocking in at 600, 700, and 800 MHz all with a minimum of 128 MB of RAM and 256 on the Top model, possibly the top two. We'll we be looking at the same HDD configs too. Superdrives will never, I repeat, never be in the consumer machines. If they are I will eat my shoe. We may see a combo drive in the Ultimate config, but that is up in the air. If we don't see G5's we may see a new rev of the iMac, afterall this verson has been around for almost 2 years now, right? (Or was it a year and a half?) If we see G5's they will be in a simmilar case to the one now at speeds around what we've been seeing on other rumor sites, somewheres around 1 GHz with a 133 MHz bus etc. I doubt that we'll see USB 2.0 although standard Airport in the high end models is likely. If we don't see the G5 just expect a speed bump. Oh and don't be surprised if we see another Apple device that will compete with what they are selling in their stores from other people (IE Camera, PDA, camcorder).
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post #25 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by snitty:
<strong> Superdrives will never, I repeat, never be in the consumer machines. If they are I will eat my shoe.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why won't they be in a consumer machine? The price on them is steadily dropping snd making your own DVD's to send your home movies to relatives and friends is going to be more and more attractive to a lot of people.

BTW What flavor is your shoe?
post #26 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by snitty:
Superdrives will never, I repeat, never be in the consumer machines. If they are I will eat my shoe.<hr></blockquote>

Didn't Steve say he wanted them in the consumer machines by sometime in 2002?

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: EmAn ]</p>
post #27 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by snitty:
<strong>Superdrives will never, I repeat, never be in the consumer machines. If they are I will eat my shoe. We may see a combo drive in the Ultimate config, but that is up in the air. </strong><hr></blockquote>


funny, because Steve Jobs said last year at the investor meeting that the imac would get the superdrive early 2002.

so shut up.


as far as "realistic" predictions

PowerMac G4 (7460)
867 Mhz, 1Ghz, 1.2 Ghz.
dual standard on one of those and an option on the others or standard on all
266 Mhz DDR Bus
256 MB RAM, 512 MB RAM on 2 others
Superdrive standard
Geforce 3 Standard/ Radeon 2 option
10/100/1000 Ethernet
4 PCI slots
2 5.25 inch external bays
new case design
airport standard
$1599, $1999, $2499
or something along those price points

iMac DV SE
15 inch LCD
new form factor
G4 733 standard
256 MB RAM standard
80GB HD standard
Superdrive standard
ATI radeon or geforce 2 mx integrated
10/100/1000 Ethernet
airport standard
$1299

iMac
15 inch crt
700 Mhz G3
128 MB RAM
40 GG HD
Combo drive
ATI Radeon or Geforce 2 mx integrated
10/100/1000 Ethernet
airport standard
$899


there you have it
post #28 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
as far as "realistic" predictions

PowerMac G4 (7460)
867 Mhz, 1Ghz, 1.2 Ghz.
dual standard on one of those and an option on the others or standard on all
266 Mhz DDR Bus
256 MB RAM, 512 MB RAM on 2 others
Superdrive standard
Geforce 3 Standard/ Radeon 2 option
10/100/1000 Ethernet
4 PCI slots
2 5.25 inch external bays
new case design
airport standard
$1599, $1999, $2499
or something along those price points</strong><hr></blockquote>

Those prices are *very* unrealistic, especially to the highest model.

This is the Apple Computer Inc we are talking about. A f*cking cheap bastard. Do you think they are willing to sell their highend PowerMac for $1000 cheaper than the older one? No way!


...hm...my words seem kind of harsh, right???? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
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post #29 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>

Those prices are *very* unrealistic, especially to the highest model.

This is the Apple Computer Inc we are talking about. A f*cking cheap bastard. Do you think they are willing to sell their highend PowerMac for $1000 cheaper than the older one? No way!


...hm...my words seem kind of harsh, right???? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

not at all.

my reasoning?

they are likely going to drop the lowend to 1599 IMO. the specs I posted did not justify a 1000 dollar increase between each model. would you pay 1000 to go from 256 MB RAM and a 867 G4 to a 1Ghz G4 and 512 MB RAM? hell no, so I made the middle 1999 and then I couldn't make it go to 3499 or even 2999 for the next one, it would be insane.

if it would make you happier add a dual 1 Ghz to the top at 2999 and keep the others single processors. they dropped the powerbooks significantly and they are pricing te iBook very competitvely I don't see why the desktops would not follow.

I think the iMac specs/prices are realistic though, whether they will happen I do not know
post #30 of 52
*clap clap*

well done applenut.


i don't know about the bottom-line entry level crt iMac.

methinks we may go back to the old original Bondi pricing scheme
post #31 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>*clap clap*

well done applenut.


i don't know about the bottom-line entry level crt iMac.

methinks we may go back to the old original Bondi pricing scheme</strong><hr></blockquote>

thank you thank you

only reason for the lowend imac is that schools eat em up. and its good to have something sub-1000
post #32 of 52
wouldn't it be better if the low end iMac is selling at 799?
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post #33 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>wouldn't it be better if the low end iMac is selling at 799?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course it would. But Apple is known for not always doing the right thing when it comes to pricing.
post #34 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>wouldn't it be better if the low end iMac is selling at 799?</strong><hr></blockquote>

yea, but the 799 imac they have now is horrendous. it really is a joke. 400 Mhz G3 in late 2001? they don't seem to make a decent system with big enough margins at that price point without killing it feature wise. for the extra hundred bucks they can offer a bit of a better system for a small price more before jumping to 1299
post #35 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

yea, but the 799 imac they have now is horrendous. it really is a joke. 400 Mhz G3 in late 2001? they don't seem to make a decent system with big enough margins at that price point without killing it feature wise. for the extra hundred bucks they can offer a bit of a better system for a small price more before jumping to 1299</strong><hr></blockquote>

The 799 version is using 500Mhz G3 btw....that 400Mhz iMac is sold for 499 in NY area....
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post #36 of 52
During the DV Expo, Schiller will announce Final Cut Pro for Mac OS X and taht it will be ready to ship at the time of the MWSF. This gives Steve a chance for a demo. During that demo, he will show how the new Apple Script Studio will help Multimedia profesionals stream line their work (of course, this will also be announced at the DV Expo, and will be downloadable.)

First Announcment: The Powerbook G4 Titaniums will now be avaliable with Combo Drives!
Then,better iMacs. Apple should focus on the education market. Grab the kids early, get 'em hooked for life!
After that, NEW G4s! I can't think of a new case design, but then again, Apple always shows us a new way to make a computer.

And finally, Steve will announce that he is an alien and will shoot towards the sky off the Keynote stage. Later reviled, the water that Steve kept on drinking, was the alien fuel that would help transport Steve back to his home planet where the only foods are halucenagenic 'shrooms

word :cool:
post #37 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>

The 799 version is using 500Mhz G3 btw....that 400Mhz iMac is sold for 499 in NY area....</strong><hr></blockquote>

true. got confused... still sad though.

those 499 iMacs just became available in stores here and I admit I am very tempted to get one.
post #38 of 52
Well at least the $799 iMac comes with a better video card than it's 400Mhz predescesor, a G3 500Mhz with a 16MB Rage Ultra may not give the best graphics performance, but it is at least capable of pulling it's weight, making most games reasonably playable.

The entire iMac line has the exact same motherboard at the moment, everything else is just made of interchangeable parts. In theory you can upgrade the current low end Mac up to the fastest if you could find the parts.

As for the Power Mac G4, 1Ghz is a definate, the PPC 7450 can certainly reach it. I think Apple held it back in Macworld New York this year to give themselves some growth room. I've seen so many people overclock their PMG4 867Mhz to 1Ghz without any problems whatsoever.

If Apple can get a good supply of 7460s (Apollos) then they could use them on the dual processor system as they take less power and produce less heat at 1Ghz.

So my prediction is for a 867 and 1Ghz models on the old 7450, and a brand new dual gigahertz system based on the 7460, that would make the highlight of the show. Of course, you will have to wait until late February/March to get it.

The 7460 should be ready, it has been in development for well over a year, and if it isn't the backup plan would be to introduce a dual processor system based on the 7450 (obviously not at 2x 1Ghz).

And finally, the entire PowerMac line will have Superdrive. It is obvious Apple wants every Mac to have this drive someday, and they want that day to be soon, they are going to push this like they pushed Firewire throughout the entire line.

It's very possible to see a Superdrive on an iMac at least before the end of 2002 - don't rely in Steve's guess of early 2002, remember he said Mac OS X 10.0 would be out Summer 2000.
post #39 of 52
[quote]Originally posted by mikerally:
<strong>Well at least the $799 iMac comes with a better video card than it's 400Mhz predescesor, a G3 500Mhz with a 16MB Rage Ultra may not give the best graphics performance, but it is at least capable of pulling it's weight, making most games reasonably playable.

It's very possible to see a Superdrive on an iMac at least before the end of 2002 - don't rely in Steve's guess of early 2002, remember he said Mac OS X 10.0 would be out Summer 2000.</strong><hr></blockquote>

the iMac is barely capable of playing today's 3d games nevermind tomorrow's. that's not good, especially when the graphic card can't be upgraded.

Superdrive should have no problem being in the high end imac come January. retail you can already get it for 500 and maybe less now. now think what apple must get it for now. maybe 250-300 bucks?
post #40 of 52
Thread Starter 
I know applenut, I consider the video cards the weakest parts of the systems. Geoforce 2 MX400s should be standard on the iMac. Also, all the G4s should use the geoforce III. Oh, one more thing, the iBooks really need radeon togo.

That is all.
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