or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Sources: Apple developing updated AirPorts, two-button mouse
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sources: Apple developing updated AirPorts, two-button mouse - Page 3

post #81 of 253
I use a $10 Kensington two-button scroll wheel mouse that is more comfortable than any of the four Apple mice I have collecting dust in drawers. It works fine and the second button and scroll wheel work very well with basically all my applications. It's more comfortable than Apple mice too, which require more 'wrist action', which hurts after a while. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Apple is changing mice designs because there is a pending lawsuit over carpal tunnel syndrome and the crappy ergonomics (albeit nice aesthetics) of the current Apple mice.

The only reason anyone with any sense ever bought an Apple one-button mouse for $50 was because Apple had the market cornered on the stupid things.
post #82 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Catman4d2
it has saved my hand.... you know the scroll buttons are built into the gui in safari hold down your mac mouse and let it scroll for you, much easier!!!!!

What causes carple tunnel is doing things with your fingers while your wrist is bent backwards (where your knuckles are approaching your shoulder).

When the wrist is bent in such a away, it puts pressure on a nerve capsule in the wrist called the carple tunnel, amazingly enough.

It is located, IIRC, just toward the edge of your wrist bordering the final tendon on the thumb side. It will actually hurt when you put pressure on that area if you have CTS.

The cure? keep your wrist as straight as possible, or even bend it in the other direction (think the left hand of a guitar player).

Thus, the reason the one button saved your hand is probably because it is more flat and your wrist was more straight. A wrist pad would've done the same, or do what I do and use the chair's armrests to put your forearms on.
Mac user since before you were born.
Reply
Mac user since before you were born.
Reply
post #83 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
You could adjust that through the System preferences panel quite easily.

Umm, you can change the scrolling speed, double-click speed but not the click-and hold speed. Anyway this may get confusing when older people click for longer. I've only seen the click and hold used in the dock. Anywhere else and it will be more confusing, having the same button with no modifiers doing the same function. Imagine explaining to a novice:

Right click
Click and hold until you see a menu.

I know what I think is easier, although I like a one button mouse and a control key. I have an eight button mouse but haven't used it at all in the first two days of my laptop's life.
post #84 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by jaknudsen
Or $7 at radio shack.

Exactly: 6-Ft. Gold-Series AV Digital Optical Cable. Works great.
post #85 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
A two-button mouse? From Apple? LMAO!

Ok, so I don't have to change my SOP for unpacking new Apple hardware:

1. Open box. Remove instruction manuals, cables, and packaging foam on top.

2. Remove mouse. Smash it to bits with a hammer or similar instrument. Carefully collect pieces and place them in trash can.

3. Continue with unpacking as normal.



It's difficult to imagine using anything less than a three button mouse w/ scroll wheel (3rd button is the wheel). OS X is designed for a two-button mouse w/ scroll wheel.

Once I used Expose with a 5 button mouse, I couldn't imagine going back to a three button mouse!

Every hard-core computer use has their own favorite mouse, so Apple could even ship computers without a mouse and let the user buy one. But that piss off the casual computer users, so I guess Apple needs a default mouse. My vote is for a three-button scroll-wheel mouse, but it doesn't really matter since I'll throw it out anyways.

ha ha !! ... I skipped the G4 and had been working with an upgraded PM 8600 all the time, using a Kensington Orbit, a 2-button ADB trackball. Now in 2003 when i got my G5 i gave Apple's mouse a try... Man, this thing sucked ... slow beyond belief to begin with.

After 2 days i couldn't take it anymore and ordered a Kensington Expert Mouse Trackball. Better pics here
I clearly think that this is the product to beat. The overall layout and placement of the 4 buttons around the ball is perfect and their handling completely smooth. I also believe that the scrollring (around the ball) is the superior concept. In quicktime and FCP by default its scrolls (i.e. scrubs) horizontally, in other apps of course vertically. There's a button in the menu bar to switch the dimension.

The 4 buttons are assignable - systemwide and app-specific. So in my browsers i have the 2 lower buttons assigned as you would expect. The upper right button closes tabs and the upper left button opens a new (empty) window... works faster for me rather than using the keyboard. As well you can assign the simultaneous clicking of two buttons but only in a few apps i have applied that, usually for quitting them.

I got the impression unfortunately that Kensington does a poor job with giving that device a proper marketing. So for a long time you couldn't even get it officially in Europe. Maybe Apple should have a closer look at that device - of course not in terms of introducing a new default mouse in that fashion - no opinion what that should be - but i would love to see Apple coming with a variety of state of art input devices as BTO option.
post #86 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
Where?

Besides, if Apple's going to start using contextual menus, they NEED a right button.

I think Apple should give a CHOICE to users. Maybe ship the KB and mouse seperately. Maybe they should offer various mouse and keyboard options like from other vendors.

Almost no other company lets you do that! It'd be "different"!

Apple forces us into all kinds of uncomfortable buying positions (PPC, not enough drive bays, etc).. why not make up for it by letting us choose our own peripherals?

As many people seem to think, we are "paying" for that mouse and keyboard, so why don't we get what we want?

Where? Right there on the System preferences panel. They could add an emulated right click just there where you could adjust the speed. Very easy.

You can still choose peripherals as we speak, just go out and buy it. You don't need to wait for Apple to give you a multi-button mouse.
post #87 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Catman4d2
it has saved my hand.... you know the scroll buttons are built into the gui in safari hold down your mac mouse and let it scroll for you, much easier!!!!!

as an option ok.... as standard HELL NO! should apple start inventing viruses and anit virus programs so you people can run all those programs you are so used to? no.... then why make everything to cater to windows people who use crap and think its good for them....... one button till death do us part!

rest easy one buttoneers their are so many people that have used mac for so long that love it the way it is that they would raise so much hell if it were different............. so we will have both im sure

EXACTLY! The two button thing doesn't have to be a HARDWARE solution. It can be emulated with SOFTWARE quite easily. Think outside the box, people.
post #88 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
Where? Right there on the System preferences panel. They could add an emulated right click just there where you could adjust the speed. Very easy.

You can still choose peripherals as we speak, just go out and buy it. You don't need to wait for Apple to give you a multi-button mouse.

but it's not there now.
post #89 of 253
A little off topic, but here goes...

Why did Apple disable the ability to use Command Click to grab and drag the contents of a window around. I don't need a scroll wheel if I can command click and drag to scroll the window.

The UI principle is simple and is backed by Fitz's law. Using Command Click is somewhat like grabbing the scrollbar scroll widget and dragging it to scroll the window. However, when using command click, the widget is the size of the entire window and is immediately under the mouse cursor. This makes selecting it far easier and faster than trying to click the small scroll pill.

Does anybody actually use the scrollbars anymore? I'm a keyboard nut and use page up, page down, home, and end constantly. I think I only use the scrollbar to visually see how long or wide a document is based on the size of the pill.
Download BARTsmart BART Widget, the best BART schedule widget for Mac OS X's Dashboard.
Reply
Download BARTsmart BART Widget, the best BART schedule widget for Mac OS X's Dashboard.
Reply
post #90 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
but it's not there now.

Well, duh, I didn't say it was there right now. Said it could be there real easily. Or could not. You might want to check again in case it suddenly appears. hehe
post #91 of 253
Here's my problem: If the mouse is in my left hand, I can keep my right hand on the arrow keys for scrolling, which is fine until I need to ctl-click. If the mouse is in my right hand, it's fine until I want to scroll.

Does anyone know how I might be able to get the enter button to function as a control button. If that is possible, it would be great.

I use the command buttons on either side of the keyboard all of the time. The enter button usually does the same thing as the return button and they are right next to eachother. I know there is a reason for it, but I've never understood why.
post #92 of 253
Hmm what if it's a multi-button mouse for the 970MP Workstations?
post #93 of 253
Click-wheel mouse?

A while ago there were some pictures of Apple patenting a click-wheel mouse. Remember?
With Apple's current obsession of iPod related stylings in non-iPod products (e.g. Mac mini) wouldn't it make sense if Apple would introduce a click-wheel mouse? Afterall they patented that so no one else could copy it.

It would basically look like the current Apple mouse, but have an iPod click-wheel at the front.
Scrubbing around in circular motion would do the same action as a scroll wheel.
Pressing down anywhere on the scrub area would do the left-click.
Pressing down the button in the center of the click-wheel would do the right-click.

The click-wheel actually has 4 buttons underneath it, so in theory this could be a 5 button mouse (4 under the scrub area and 1 in the center), but I think it would be tedious to have to use the button underneath the 9 o'clock position as the left click exclusively and the button underneath the 3 o'clock position as the right button. Think about it: If you're scrubbing around scrolling in a document stopping at e.g. the 2 o'clock position it would be cumbersome to lift the finger and go all the way back to the 9 o'clock position for doing a left click. Hence I believe that all 4 buttons underneath the scrub area would register as the same left click and you can just press down wherever you are on your scrub area.

What do you think?
post #94 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
Well, duh, I didn't say it was there right now. Said it could be there real easily. Or could not. You might want to check again in case it suddenly appears. hehe

Also I think if it's too quick it will cause confusion. I'n not a fan of click-and-hold. Control click is a lot better.
post #95 of 253
This article also mentions new airport base stations. I for one would like Apple to include LAN ports on the airport extreme base station (4 would be nice). A la every other wireless router out there.
post #96 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Gmac
This article also mentions new airport base stations. I for one would like Apple to include LAN ports on the airport extreme base station (4 would be nice). A la every other wireless router out there.

They do, and have for... well, months at least.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #97 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
They do, and have for... well, months at least.

More than one is what I meant.
post #98 of 253
Why? If you need a hub, they're cheap, and you can scale up to exactly what you want. If you don't need a hub, then you aren't paying for it. I have a WiFi router with five LAN ports - I use one.

Not only that, but then your hub isn't tied to the WiFi functionality. If, as happened with 802.11b -> 11g, you are looking to buy a new base station, you don't have to reconfigure everything else, just drop in the new access point and go.

I honestly don't see the reason for WiFi routers that have umpteen ports, but maybe that's just me. *shrug*
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #99 of 253
I want a broadband modem built in, I don't want to have to have a modem and the base station. That's why I bought a netgear wireless router, an all-in-one solution.
post #100 of 253
I'll never understand that philosophy, to be honest. Technologies change too rapidly to lock yourself into one all-in-one solution for no good reason, in my opinion. So what you're saying is that you'd prefer to have to buy a whole new setup if, say, you were forced to move to cable modem because you moved? Or because you wanted to upgrade your WiFi speed?

This is one area where plug and play is so braindead simple that I don't see where there's any advantage of an all-in-one over a modem, a WiFi, and a hub. Hubs are cheap, and plentiful. Pick the upstream connection you need, the WiFi station you want, and slap a hub on there. Voila. Mix and match to meet your needs and desires.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #101 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
I'll never understand that philosophy, to be honest. Technologies change too rapidly to lock yourself into one all-in-one solution for no good reason, in my opinion. So what you're saying is that you'd prefer to have to buy a whole new setup if, say, you were forced to move to cable modem because you moved? Or because you wanted to upgrade your WiFi speed?

This is one area where plug and play is so braindead simple that I don't see where there's any advantage of an all-in-one over a modem, a WiFi, and a hub. Hubs are cheap, and plentiful. Pick the upstream connection you need, the WiFi station you want, and slap a hub on there. Voila. Mix and match to meet your needs and desires.

My problem is space and aesthetics. A modem and a router is much less desirable, two plugs needed, more cables hanging around etc. I'm sticking to my set-up for years at least. The Netgear router is cheaper than the AirPort BaseStation so I saved money ands got an all-in-one. It's Apple that should be offering this simplicity.
post #102 of 253
So then they offer a DSL package... and a cable modem package... and oh, not every DSL or cable provider is compatible with the others, so you have to have one for each... and then when 802.11g gets usurped you have to buy a whole new setup just to make sure that you can get the higher speeds... :P

Too many variables.

Orthogonality of design is important in networking as in most other things... the connection to your ISP has nothing to do with the WiFi technology, has nothing to with how many cabled computers you have... they're all independent, and should remain so in my mind. Let each be addressed by a solution that meets that part of the puzzle, and lets the rest stand on their own.

*shrug*

But if your setup is truly something you're not going to bother upgrading to 802.11n or various MAN technologies coming out, and you're not planning on moving anywhere in that time frame, then you'll be fine.

And before anyone jumps in with the iMac as the counter example of the all-in-one, I'd point out that with a couple of exceptions (display, graphics card), there are a number of highly useful ways to expand the system without replacing it: the ports. With networking gear, the Ethernet ports *ARE* the expansion mechanism, and they're everywhere. This makes it extremely easy to put together the pieces you need, and adapt as your needs change.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #103 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
So then they offer a DSL package... and a cable modem package... and oh, not every DSL or cable provider is compatible with the others, so you have to have one for each... and then when 802.11g gets usurped you have to buy a whole new setup just to make sure that you can get the higher speeds... :P

Too many variables.

Orthogonality of design is important in networking as in most other things... the connection to your ISP has nothing to do with the WiFi technology, has nothing to with how many cabled computers you have... they're all independent, and should remain so in my mind. Let each be addressed by a solution that meets that part of the puzzle, and lets the rest stand on their own.

*shrug*

But if your setup is truly something you're not going to bother upgrading to 802.11n or various MAN technologies coming out, and you're not planning on moving anywhere in that time frame, then you'll be fine.

And before anyone jumps in with the iMac as the counter example of the all-in-one, I'd point out that with a couple of exceptions (display, graphics card), there are a number of highly useful ways to expand the system without replacing it: the ports. With networking gear, the Ethernet ports *ARE* the expansion mechanism, and they're everywhere. This makes it extremely easy to put together the pieces you need, and adapt as your needs change.

If you have AirPort you'll have to upgrade your computers and basestation to 802.11n. If I want 802.11n I have to upgrade my router and computers. The all-in-one device is simpler for novices and space saving. As I use my wireless network for internet I do not need to upgrade until internet speeds are faster than 54mbps. I can see the reasons for not including a modem but until they do i will not buy a AirPort basestation (might get Express though )
post #104 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
If you have AirPort you'll have to upgrade your computers and basestation to 802.11n. If I want 802.11n I have to upgrade my router and computers. The all-in-one device is simpler for novices and space saving. As I use my wireless network for internet I do not need to upgrade until internet speeds are faster than 54mbps. I can see the reasons for not including a modem but until they do i will not buy a AirPort basestation (might get Express though )

802.11n also has range benefits (8 times the range of 802.11g), and multi-protocol support so that you can still use faster links when 802.11b devices are present. The belkin 802.11n router is in my system now, and it is far better than any Linksys product that I have owned.

If apple moved to 802.11n, I would probably upgrade my computers (well, mine anyway - my wife and kids can stay at 802.11g).
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #105 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
Where? Right there on the System preferences panel. They could add an emulated right click just there where you could adjust the speed. Very easy.

You can still choose peripherals as we speak, just go out and buy it. You don't need to wait for Apple to give you a multi-button mouse.

Say it costs them $10 to put in that crappy mouse and keyboard with my machine..

Why not allow people to buy without and get a $10 coupon to buy something else?

BTW, as I said before I have an eight (8) button mouse with 4 way scroll. I'm also enjoying my modified Logitech Elite keyboard.

I really don't understand why Apple is "forcing us to pay"* for a keyboard and mouse that half of us are going to throw away (well, toss the mouse at least).

* Note: It is probable that Apple absorbs some if not all of the cost of the keyboard and mouse when setting their pricing scheme, so saying they're "forcing us to pay" is actually totally misguided. However, other people with lesser knowledge of economics have used this argument and won popular opinion like in the thread about the iPod no longer carrying a firewire cable, so I'm using it here.
Mac user since before you were born.
Reply
Mac user since before you were born.
Reply
post #106 of 253
Quote:
I really don't understand why Apple is "forcing us to pay" for a keyboard and mouse that half of us are going to throw away (well, toss the mouse at least).

I really don't understand why Apple is "forcing us to buy" for a keyboard and mouse that half of us are going to need anyway .

See how easy it is to flip that? While you don't want the mouse and keyboard there will be someone else who wants it. The best way is to err on the side of caution and include the necessary items to have a full functioning computer price permitting. Never hurts to have a backup.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #107 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I really don't understand why Apple is "forcing us to buy" for a keyboard and mouse that half of us are going to need anyway .

See how easy it is to flip that? While you don't want the mouse and keyboard there will be someone else who wants it. The best way is to err on the side of caution and include the necessary items to have a full functioning computer price permitting. Never hurts to have a backup.

this is ALL I'm asking for:
On the applestore website, I want to see this:


Edit: It should be noted that when you buy the Mac Mini, to get the crappy keyboard and mouse that come standard with the other desktops, it costs $58! That's not even for the wireless version! That's why I raised the asking refund to $20
Mac user since before you were born.
Reply
Mac user since before you were born.
Reply
post #108 of 253
*looks at my black one-button Apple mouse* Why do people hate you?? You're perfect!

If Apple is indeed in the process of tweaking their traditional mouse, couldn't it be possible they are just adding features like the ones included in the new PowerBook trackpads? Just to make things fair with the mouse-using folks and provide the same navigating experience to everyone? Just a thought.
post #109 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by trtam
Maybe make it rock forward for left click and backwards for right click...like a see-saw...

This is something I have proposed here before and the only solution that would maintain the elegance of the Apple Pro mouse.

I have everything from an MS intellimouse (now broken), a Watcom tablet & pen, a couple of trackballs, several multi-button and scrollwheel mice, even some kind of "air" mouse that never worked right.

After trying all that, my main system (a Powerbook) uses the Apple cordless keyboard & mouse with a Griffin PowerMate attached. My tower (500 dual) has the tablet and trackball attached, but I find myself using the stock Pro mouse that came with it more than anything.

No mouse has yet provided a better feel than the stock Pro mouse. The bluetooth mouse comes closest, but the weight (with the batteries) makes the Pro mouse better for me.

My wife uses an Apple pro mouse on her (handed down) Thinkpad, and prefers it to any of the others I've given her to try.

For me the ideal Apple mouse would have the "back click" as trtam proposed and a small scroll wheel of some type, with maybe the side grips enabled to activate expose.
OSX + Duals, Quads & Octos = World Domination
Reply
OSX + Duals, Quads & Octos = World Domination
Reply
post #110 of 253
One thing I HATE about many Windows apps is that some commands are only available using the right-click, and sometimes a right-click-with-modifier.

I use a four button mouse, but I love the fact that Mac apps only require one button. I also love the fact that most Mac apps have all commands available in the menu bar, even if I chose to use a different method. It makes explaining how to use an app for the first time a lot easier since I only have to deal with one hierarchy.

If Apple sells a two-button-mouse they ought to make those human interface guidelines clearer (as they were originally before the Aqua guidelines neutered them).
post #111 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by strobe
One thing I HATE about many Windows apps is that some commands are only available using the right-click, and sometimes a right-click-with-modifier.

I use a four button mouse, but I love the fact that Mac apps only require one button. I also love the fact that most Mac apps have all commands available in the menu bar, even if I chose to use a different method. It makes explaining how to use an app for the first time a lot easier since I only have to deal with one hierarchy.

If Apple sells a two-button-mouse they ought to make those human interface guidelines clearer (as they were originally before the Aqua guidelines neutered them).

I am in total agreement with you. As long as the interface rules stay made for one button I'll be happy. I don't think people realise the effect it has on the OS if you make it two buttons by default. I hope one button remains standard for ever!!
post #112 of 253
i also vote on a 3 button mouse, preferably the third button being for the thumb on the inside groove, but ill settle for it any other way.

scroll wheels i could careless about, and wireless with a dock (or able to use iPod dock), and they should start selling the dock seperately and sell iPods cheaper without them. the dock can be used to recharge future apple hardware. (assuming they use the same voltage)
post #113 of 253
Perhaps the new mouse will operate like the powerbook... just stroke it with two fingers and your page will scroll down.

Notice how I didn't shoot for the obvious pr0n joke.
Download BARTsmart BART Widget, the best BART schedule widget for Mac OS X's Dashboard.
Reply
Download BARTsmart BART Widget, the best BART schedule widget for Mac OS X's Dashboard.
Reply
post #114 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by sickoperationz
they should start selling the dock seperately and sell iPods cheaper without them. the dock can be used to recharge future apple hardware. (assuming they use the same voltage)

All current iPods are sold without a dock already.
post #115 of 253
What do you guys think about this mouse? I haven't used it but looks interesting. It should be Bluetooth, and the reviews suggest it could be more comfortable to hold, but those are issues Apple could easily fix.
post #116 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by JBL
What do you guys think about this mouse? I haven't used it but looks interesting.

These have been around for ages, but I don't think I've ever seen the Gyration animation on the left which kinda looks like pocket pool
post #117 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by Ben Huebscher
you really souldn't have to use your keyboard for Exposé

You don't have to; hot corners can activate Exposé.
post #118 of 253
Quote:
Originally posted by nagromme
As for HIDING stuff in context-menus like Windows does, devs can already be lazy about that if they wish. They shouldn't--one more UI guideline to promote, but no more important than, say, drag-and-drop text support. No good dev would violate either guideline.

And many devs do violate both, including Apple. Apple et.al. hide undocumented features from us behind mouse clicks and shortcuts that require modifier keys, for example. I'm always discovering new ones, either by reading about them, exploration, or just plain accidentally.

I usually don't care if it takes a shift-control-option-command-click somewhere to invoke something as much as I wish that functionality were consistently documented. I wish "Help > Keyboard and Mouse Shortcuts" were being used more often as a complete quick reference for those shortcuts.
post #119 of 253
True, but they don't often purposefully hide *BASIC* functionality behind such things. Those are usually little 'extras' like Shift-click on a minimized window in the Dock to watch it expand in slo-mo.

Rarely do actual honest to god tools end up being found only in modified clicks. Take opt-drag in the Finder to make a copy at the destination. This is just a shortcut for Duplicating the item in the original folder, moving it, and renaming it back to the original. Or cmd-opt-drag for making an alias. You can also make an alias, then drag it. The modified mouse events are just efficiency shortcuts for things you can do with no modifiers.

Sometimes, yes, even Apple screws up, but those times are quite rare. Other developers need to be trained to work the same way. Windows and Linux devs *don't* automatically think that way, it's really quite a foreign concept to most. Take a look at a lot of Windows and Linux software, and you'll find that multiple buttons are required just to get at basic tools. Hence, the one-button mouse enforcement of good guidelines.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #120 of 253
a 3 button gyration mouse would be superb and perfect to go with tiger

next step: 3d space, gyration mouse sensing the Z so u can go in and out rather then just left right, up down . THAT would be hot...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Sources: Apple developing updated AirPorts, two-button mouse