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Mac OS X 10.4 build 8A414 surfaces

post #1 of 128
Thread Starter 
Article removed at the request of Apple Legal.
post #2 of 128
Woo Hoo!!!! I can't wait.
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post #3 of 128
So, anyone here tried it? If you're under, NDA, well...

Hypothetically, were you to have the latest beta build of Tiger, do you believe it would be near completion?

post #4 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
iDisk synching does not work

Oh good, so it's just like Panther.

Seriously, has anyone ever gotten iDisk syncing to work? I tried it for a few weeks and gave up.
post #5 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by bubba451
Oh good, so it's just like Panther.

Seriously, has anyone ever gotten iDisk syncing to work? I tried it for a few weeks and gave up.

The iDisk syncing in Panther is making a local copy of the iDisk.

Tiger's syncing that the article refers to is completely different - see the publicly available description at Apple's Tiger pages:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/sync.html
--Johnny
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post #6 of 128
iDisk syncing used to work fine for me, but lately it has been off and on. So I turn off auto-syncing to manual, but it just ignores me everytime and resets itself back to auto-sync.
post #7 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
The most striking issue appears to affect iDisk synching. "iDisk synching does not work,"

I can live without that, Apple should release it now.
post #8 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by lundy
The iDisk syncing in Panther is making a local copy of the iDisk.

Tiger's syncing that the article refers to is completely different - see the publicly available description at Apple's Tiger pages:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/sync.html

Ah, so it doesn't work in a completely new way!
post #9 of 128
I don't understand this. So many people I know say that it just isn't ready.

Even with the 26th anniverery coming up I can't see what the rush is. If it comes out at the dev conference, so what?

Everyone already EXPECTS it to come out then anyway. If they could fix more bugs and add that one feature that they wanted to but couldn't, due to this April date, then they could.

Would anyone here want this to come out now if it means another nine, or even more, updates over the next eighteen months or so, rather than perhaps six? Version 10.4.1 by June. That's what will happen. I rather it just came out then, and the first update came out in October.

Business people don't like all of these updates either. We all know that they break lots of things
post #10 of 128
biz people don't upgrade until they have to.

Apple want's to deliver Tiger because they have a lot of apps coming that require Tiger. Might as well get it out there and then fix the bugs as they come. At least Apple is shipping. This team executes far better than back in the dreary days of waiting for Copeland.
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post #11 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
... before it is sent to manufacturing...

Uh... just curious... what is the manufacturing process of software?
-Shawn
2.4GHz 24" Intel iMac
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-Shawn
2.4GHz 24" Intel iMac
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post #12 of 128
Disc Burn and Packaging.
post #13 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by zenatek
Disc Burn and Packaging.

So for the Tiger devs already:
What do they do? Burn you a copy on a max DVDR until packaging?
-Shawn
2.4GHz 24" Intel iMac
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-Shawn
2.4GHz 24" Intel iMac
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post #14 of 128
Most likely although I dont know. I doubt there doing actual Burns like a product for retail sales. It could also be available for download.
post #15 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by zenatek
Disc Burn and Packaging.

If I recall correctly the disks are just pressed. Burning is far too time consuming. It's easier to just press the disc. After all a CD is just a high-tech version of a record.It reads indentations (as varying wavelengths) as binary on and offs.

It shouldn't take very long. After all Panther and Jaguar's gold master builds were seeded about two weeks from launch.
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post #16 of 128
Who are "so many people"? Probably people who don't have access to actual copies of the latest builds or did something stupid like install a beta overtop of their current OS.

From where I sit 393 was nearly perfect. I'm getting the lastest download as we speak i'll install it tonight.


Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I don't understand this. So many people I know say that it just isn't ready.

Even with the 26th anniverery coming up I can't see what the rush is. If it comes out at the dev conference, so what?

Everyone already EXPECTS it to come out then anyway. If they could fix more bugs and add that one feature that they wanted to but couldn't, due to this April date, then they could.

Would anyone here want this to come out now if it means another nine, or even more, updates over the next eighteen months or so, rather than perhaps six? Version 10.4.1 by June. That's what will happen. I rather it just came out then, and the first update came out in October.

Business people don't like all of these updates either. We all know that they break lots of things
post #17 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by iShawn
So for the Tiger devs already:
What do they do? Burn you a copy on a max DVDR until packaging?

We burn our own. Or wait for the DVD in the mail.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #18 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by webmail
Who are "so many people"? Probably people who don't have access to actual copies of the latest builds or did something stupid like install a beta overtop of their current OS.

From where I sit 393 was nearly perfect. I'm getting the lastest download as we speak i'll install it tonight.

People I know who have been beta testing it as you say you are doing. Also Other places that I've been reading info on this have said that there still seem to be problems. Nothing really major, but enough.

If you've been testing it, can you say that it's in such good shape that it couldn't benefit from the extra two months? You've tested every function and feature? You have scanners, digital cameras, DVD writers, CRT and LCD monitors? You have every current video card, audio card, firewire and USB card? CAD/CAM, graphics, photo, publishing, spreadsheets, and databases like Oracle, Sybase, etc.? You have wired networking at all speeds, and wireless, with all the compatible cards? Firewire, USB, and Ethernet printers? Laser, and ink? Vinyl letter cutting machines? Firewire and USB drives? SCSI, iSCSI, P-ATA and S-ATA internal drives and all the cards for them, including Raid? Do I really have to go on? Do you think that as a beta tester you have tested even a small fraction of what can go wrong? I doubt it. Nearly perfect? When has Apple ever come out with a new version of X that was nearly perfect? I can't remember any. Can you? They can't even come out with an update that's nearly perfect. And I have 4 Macs at home, and had (just retired ) over 15 in my business. So I know.


(Directed to the moderator).
As for the "business people upgrade when they have to" bit. They have to when a software company upgrades their product with features they have been waiting for, and say that it only works with the new OS. In certain fields there is competitive pressure. It's not as simple as you think. When I read interviews in ComputerWorld or Infoworld, that is one of the things I see from IT people and large business executives. If you think that they can sit out a major upgrade, then you are not familiar with the business world. They can sit out an Office upgrade, but an OS upgrade is another thing entirely. There are major bits in the OS that need implementing on a constant basis. Exchange server compatibility is one of the most important of those. If it's in there, business with mixed networks will want to upgrade immediately. But if it's buggy, and that could have been fixed by two more months of testing... The truth is that they don't give a hoot about Apple's 26th anniversary. They want a stable product. Period. Apple has more to prove than MS. Apple is trying to get back into the enterprise. It's a very long road for them to walk as it is. I would bet if you asked any of them that they would all say that Apple should wait.

Before I get flamed, I am a big promoter for Apple. Here in the NYC school system, where we have almost 1,200 schools, I'm on technology committees as an unpaid advisor. I fight for Apple every step of the way. That's why I get annoyed when they want to introduce something as integral to their business as this is simply to have a big show on their anniversary. Foolish.
post #19 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I don't understand this. So many people I know say that it just isn't ready.

Even with the 26th anniverery coming up I can't see what the rush is. If it comes out at the dev conference, so what?

Everyone already EXPECTS it to come out then anyway. If they could fix more bugs and add that one feature that they wanted to but couldn't, due to this April date, then they could.

Would anyone here want this to come out now if it means another nine, or even more, updates over the next eighteen months or so, rather than perhaps six? Version 10.4.1 by June. That's what will happen. I rather it just came out then, and the first update came out in October.

Business people don't like all of these updates either. We all know that they break lots of things

Apple said 1H2005
WWDC June 6-10 is 1H2005
post #20 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by bubba451
Oh good, so it's just like Panther.

Seriously, has anyone ever gotten iDisk syncing to work? I tried it for a few weeks and gave up.

Depends on what you are meaning.

I sync my two computers every one hour. It is excellent when I usually code on my PowerBook and my son drops by to play games. I then go over to my G4 Cube and the code is there. It is extremly cool.

Or when I bookmark webpages on my pBook and if I need to ( gets kicked ) use the G4 Cube, the bookmarks are all there.

None of my pc friends or family have seen anything like this.

I can´t live without iSync

Zon
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post #21 of 128
I've tested everything. E-V-E-R-Y-T-T-H-I-N-G. Nearly everything. seriously , no joke. Apple has done the same.


Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
People I know who have been beta testing it as you say you are doing. Also Other places that I've been reading info on this have said that there still seem to be problems. Nothing really major, but enough.

If you've been testing it, can you say that it's in such good shape that it couldn't benefit from the extra two months? You've tested every function and feature? You have scanners, digital cameras, DVD writers, CRT and LCD monitors? You have every current video card, audio card, firewire and USB card? CAD/CAM, graphics, photo, publishing, spreadsheets, and databases like Oracle, Sybase, etc.? You have wired networking at all speeds, and wireless, with all the compatible cards? Firewire, USB, and Ethernet printers? Laser, and ink? Vinyl letter cutting machines? Firewire and USB drives? SCSI, iSCSI, P-ATA and S-ATA internal drives and all the cards for them, including Raid? Do I really have to go on? Do you think that as a beta tester you have tested even a small fraction of what can go wrong? I doubt it. Nearly perfect? When has Apple ever come out with a new version of X that was nearly perfect? I can't remember any. Can you? They can't even come out with an update that's nearly perfect. And I have 4 Macs at home, and had (just retired ) over 15 in my business. So I know.


(Directed to the moderator).
As for the "business people upgrade when they have to" bit. They have to when a software company upgrades their product with features they have been waiting for, and say that it only works with the new OS. In certain fields there is competitive pressure. It's not as simple as you think. When I read interviews in ComputerWorld or Infoworld, that is one of the things I see from IT people and large business executives. If you think that they can sit out a major upgrade, then you are not familiar with the business world. They can sit out an Office upgrade, but an OS upgrade is another thing entirely. There are major bits in the OS that need implementing on a constant basis. Exchange server compatibility is one of the most important of those. If it's in there, business with mixed networks will want to upgrade immediately. But if it's buggy, and that could have been fixed by two more months of testing... The truth is that they don't give a hoot about Apple's 26th anniversary. They want a stable product. Period. Apple has more to prove than MS. Apple is trying to get back into the enterprise. It's a very long road for them to walk as it is. I would bet if you asked any of them that they would all say that Apple should wait.

Before I get flamed, I am a big promoter for Apple. Here in the NYC school system, where we have almost 1,200 schools, I'm on technology committees as an unpaid advisor. I fight for Apple every step of the way. That's why I get annoyed when they want to introduce something as integral to their business as this is simply to have a big show on their anniversary. Foolish.
post #22 of 128
My new 300GB boot HDD has been in the box for ages waiting for Tiger (I couldn't be bothered to re-install panther on a new drive)...

Can't wait for Tiger...
post #23 of 128
Tiger will be stable for at least 98% of the people. The bugs that come from the 2% will mostly be stuff that they would not catch if they kept it in beta for another 2 months. Apple has already gotten all the issues from the beta testers, and they will have them fixed before release. By releasing it to the public they will be able to find even more obscure bugs, and continue refining Tiger at a fast pace.
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post #24 of 128
sounds like they are rushing it.
i hope all the reports are wrong and they wait another few months
post #25 of 128
Any screenshots emerging yet?

Andrew
Andrew

Mac-less until MWSF 2005
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Andrew

Mac-less until MWSF 2005
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post #26 of 128
I think I'll wait until 10.4.1 or maybe even 10.4.4

Screed
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post #27 of 128
I just hope the mail.app team got some sense knocked into them and they decided to ditch that horrible new appearance for the current HIGs.
post #28 of 128
It's not being rushed. They were done with all the features before Macworld this year. It's very stable. It's easily more stable than 10.3.8 if not the same. Smoothier too.

Quote:
Originally posted by nathan22t
sounds like they are rushing it.
i hope all the reports are wrong and they wait another few months
post #29 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by sCreeD
I think I'll wait until 10.4.1 or maybe even 10.4.4

Screed

congratulations. any reason why? i personally am gonna buy it right away then wait a few weeks. if nothing major surfaces right away then there's no reason to wait. if anything it just gets you less time of ownership for your money. (assuming you'll buy 10.5)
post #30 of 128
My current install of 10.3.x has a few problems, frequent kernel panics from firewire devices and my digicam refusing to mount...

I'm really looking forward to Tiger...
post #31 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by schmidm77
I just hope the mail.app team got some sense knocked into them and they decided to ditch that horrible new appearance for the current HIGs.



Like so.
post #32 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by J@ffa


Like so.

Yeah, I really don't like that.

I don't even know why Apple bothers with publishing an HIG anymore. They are following Microsoft with the marketing gimmick of changing the appearance of everything with a new software version.
post #33 of 128
I'm sorry to disagree but it isn't a gimmick!
They have simply made it easier to use. It is an operating system overhaul after all. It's an easier interface plus it fits in with the 10.4 look, what the problem?

I forgot to say, I can understand you not liking it because of personal preference but I don't think you can reference Microsoft and say they changed it as a gimmick.
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post #34 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by Dazabrit
I'm sorry to disagree but it isn't a gimmick!
They have simply made it easier to use. It is an operating system overhaul after all. It's an easier interface plus it fits in with the 10.4 look, what the problem?

How does the new look of the toolbars make them any more usable than the current look which has existed since 10.0?

And the toolbar items in that screenshot aren't even left aligned. What the heck is going on with the interface guidelines?

edit: and by looking at the screenshot, mail isn't even being consistent with the rest of the changes made in Tiger (going by all the other screenshot I've seen).
post #35 of 128
FWIW, I've mentioned here that I'm beta testing a third party app to run on Tiger, and the developer didn't bother to send me the previously released build of Tiger because it was so problemmatic. Well, this new build is apparently a quantum leap in terms of its quality, and I will be receiving it. So while this good news isn't indicative of an imminent release date, it's not as incongruous to put the April release rumor out there with this current build as it was when the really buggy one was the latest and greatest. BTW, developers are in the dark about a release date as much as Joe Fanboi.
post #36 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by BNOYHTUAWB
Apple said 1H2005
WWDC June 6-10 is 1H2005

I hope that you were agreeing with me, because that's what I said.
post #37 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by webmail
I've tested everything. E-V-E-R-Y-T-T-H-I-N-G. Nearly everything. seriously , no joke. Apple has done the same.

Of course you have. Everything.

I can guarantee you that even Apple hasn't tested everything.

I've been testing Photoshop for Adobe since version 1.0.3, and I know it about as well as anyone, but when it is finalized, there are always some things that surprise me. The forms that I have to fill out each week take plenty of time because there is so much being asked to comment over.
Adobe takes a whole year to test the program. It's remarkably bug free and stable because of that.

A modern OS is maybe 50 times as complex and has about 100 times as much code. It's also required to interact with hardware in ways that a program like Photoshop, as complex as it is, will never have to do.

How much time should the testing stage occupy?
post #38 of 128
As long as necessary to make it usable and the appearance of error-free for most users.

Every software product has bugs, even if you don't see them.

Remember, if your software works, it just means you have an even number of negation errors.
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post #39 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by Imergingenious
Tiger will be stable for at least 98% of the people. The bugs that come from the 2% will mostly be stuff that they would not catch if they kept it in beta for another 2 months. Apple has already gotten all the issues from the beta testers, and they will have them fixed before release. By releasing it to the public they will be able to find even more obscure bugs, and continue refining Tiger at a fast pace.

Don't be so certain of that. The 8 updates to 10.2 and the 9 to 10.3 say otherwise.

I wouldn't call the Firewire problems minor. They certainly should have caught that. No excuse there. So many were caught out on that one alone.

It goes to show that they DON'T think to test everything. That was pretty obvious.
post #40 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by sCreeD
I think I'll wait until 10.4.1 or maybe even 10.4.4

Screed

Well, I'll put it on one of my "safe" machines to try it out, if indeed it is coming out in April. I would do that even if it came out in June.
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