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Mac OS X 10.4 build 8A414 surfaces - Page 2

post #41 of 128
3/17/05 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by webmail
It's not being rushed. They were done with all the features before Macworld this year. It's very stable. It's easily more stable than 10.3.8 if not the same. Smoothier too.

I don't know. Last I heard, they were still adding things in January. Nothing major though.
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post #42 of 128
3/17/05 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
FWIW, I've mentioned here that I'm beta testing a third party app to run on Tiger, and the developer didn't bother to send me the previously released build of Tiger because it was so problemmatic. Well, this new build is apparently a quantum leap in terms of its quality, and I will be receiving it. So while this good news isn't indicative of an imminent release date, it's not as incongruous to put the April release rumor out there with this current build as it was when the really buggy one was the latest and greatest. BTW, developers are in the dark about a release date as much as Joe Fanboi.

Absolutely correct!

As are the beta testers.
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post #43 of 128
3/17/05 at 9:09pm
I'm buying Tiger and loading it as soon as it comes out. Honestly, there is no perfect time to publish software.

I'm betting its cooler, faster, more powerful and easier to use than any OS X version we have had to date. And I am looking forward to the few surprises that always seem to be included.

I paid for the first version of OS X. Thinking back on it, that was a pretty sad deal. But at the time I had fun playing with it and realizing the possibilities. So I don't think I have too much to worry about with Tiger. It will still kick XP's a$$. And I put up with that every day at work.
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

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iPad2 16 GB Wifi

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post #44 of 128
3/17/05 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
congratulations. any reason why? i personally am gonna buy it right away then wait a few weeks. if nothing major surfaces right away then there's no reason to wait. if anything it just gets you less time of ownership for your money. (assuming you'll buy 10.5)

10.x.0 releases always have been problematic for users (putting it lightly). Also I'm waiting for the next PowerMac revision, which should ship with Tiger. If nothing shows for April then I'll also buy it and wait.

"less time of ownership"?? Apple has stated that after Tiger the OS cycle will be slower/longer. I don't expect another 10.x.0 release for at least 18 months after Tiger. Apple is way ahead of Longhorn already.

Screed
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MWSF '07: Steve Jobs hates my wallet and my mobile carrier.
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post #45 of 128
3/18/05 at 2:18am
Quote:
Originally posted by schmidm77
And the toolbar items in that screenshot aren't even left aligned. What the heck is going on with the interface guidelines?

The buttons are aligned over the content section because the buttons have effect of what you have chosen below - not the mail boxes.

http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail1.jpg

http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail2.jpg


Quote:
Originally posted by schmidm77
edit: and by looking at the screenshot, mail isn't even being consistent with the rest of the changes made in Tiger (going by all the other screenshot I've seen).

The buttons have (for some unknown reason) a different look, but the top looks like the top in the rest of Tiger.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #46 of 128
3/18/05 at 11:20am
I wonder if Tiger still has "Burnable Folders"
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post #47 of 128
3/18/05 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Absolutely correct!

As are the beta testers.

Did I claim otherwise?
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post #48 of 128
3/18/05 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally posted by MPMoriarty
I wonder if Tiger still has "Burnable Folders"

Eh?
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #49 of 128
3/18/05 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
Eh?

Hehe, you and me both. Just googled it and it's this:

AppleInsider: Burnable folders, revised Smart Folders appear in Tiger
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post #50 of 128
3/18/05 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Did I claim otherwise?

Nope. That's why I agreed.

Others are hinting otherwise with their supposed "knowledge" from the inside, that they don't have. I might add. I know people in Apple's engineering management, and even they don't know the actual delivery date. At least that's from when I last spoke to them about a week ago.
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post #51 of 128
3/18/05 at 1:10pm
I had not heard about burnable folders till reading that article and I sure hope its still included... sounds really amazing. Well as amazing as burnable folders can be.
Deliberatelife.com: Do things different.
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post #52 of 128
3/18/05 at 3:46pm
can someone explain to me the advantage of burnable folders over what we currently have? The time saved copying files to disk image? Why doesn't apple just make every folder burnable?
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post #53 of 128
3/18/05 at 6:16pm
I always wait for a .1 release, and it's been a good policy IMO.

6.1, 7.1, 7.6 (like a .1 of 7.5), 8.1, 9.1, etc. I've avoided a lot of headaches with a little patience.

I think I may have used System 7 prematurely when I got a IIfx, but I didn't have to wait too long for a revision.

But feel free to debug the OS for me so I don't lose my data, nerves, and hair. Thanks!
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post #54 of 128
3/18/05 at 6:36pm
There is nothing wrong with being cautious, but believe me, you won't lose your data with Tiger. The current builds are as stable as Panther. Some apps will have to get minor updates, but remember that devs have been working on updating their apps for Tiger since last year.

Personally, I will get Tiger as soon as the ship date comes down to 2-3 days.
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post #55 of 128
3/18/05 at 7:17pm
me too!
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post #56 of 128
3/18/05 at 7:20pm
Anybody know what are the CPU requirements for H264 video conferencing? If 1Ghz is enough I may switch early for that feature alone.
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post #57 of 128
3/18/05 at 7:30pm
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Quote:
Originally posted by Imergingenious
can someone explain to me the advantage of burnable folders over what we currently have? The time saved copying files to disk image?

Time and space. Currently a copy of everything is made in a hidden place, as you drag it to the optical media. So if you burn 4.7GB onto a DVD, you need 4.7GB *FREE* to do so. Not good if you're burning to make room, you know?

Quote:
Why doesn't apple just make every folder burnable?

Because this way the folder can keep track of what you toss into it, and once you get to a preset limit (CD, DVD, etc), it can warn you or disallow it. Or, it could offer to break up the files into the correct sized chunks if you want. There's no reason to have *every* folder keep track of everything in it like that all the time, so it's a special case.
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post #58 of 128
3/18/05 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Imergingenious
There is nothing wrong with being cautious, but believe me, you won't lose your data with Tiger. The current builds are as stable as Panther. Some apps will have to get minor updates, but remember that devs have been working on updating their apps for Tiger since last year.

Personally, I will get Tiger as soon as the ship date comes down to 2-3 days.

We should believe you, should we?

I hope you were one of the lucky ones who didn't lose data on a Firewire drive. I did. And I followed all of the instructions. Three drives. Poof!

Fortunately, I back up everything. Losing over 300GBytes of stuff wasn't as bad as it could have been. But I had to replace two of my drives. Totally shot. Another 120 Gig drive is now recognized as a 32Gig drive. No matter what I do.

And I'm conservative, as you would see if you read my other posts on this. Computers have also been a major part of my business, and I'm considered to be an expert in these matters. But still...
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post #59 of 128
3/19/05 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I know people in Apple's engineering management, and even they don't know the actual delivery date. At least that's from when I last spoke to them about a week ago.

Perhaps they umm.. lied.
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post #60 of 128
3/19/05 at 11:08am
As always, I wait to do a major OS upgrade until a combination of:

* apps I rely on being compatible/stable with the new OS (based on developer and/or user feedback)

and:

* apps I want to use requiring the new OS

Some upgrade-anxious posters sound like they have some kind of immunity to any Tiger post-upgrade compatibility issues, are unconcerned about disruptions the upgrade may cause, only need to use Apple apps known to run on Tiger, or ... "just because".
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post #61 of 128
3/19/05 at 11:49am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sopphode
Perhaps they umm.. lied.

While possible, mel is correct in that most companies (and Apple *especially*) separate out the engineering and marketing concerns pretty thoroughly. This means that the engineers are given a series of deadlines for requirements to be met. Since development isn't an exact science, some requirements are pushed off, others that were thought to be 'maybes' suddenly become doable. This continues until marketing looks over the to-be-really-complete-set and says "yeah, this looks good, let's complete X, Y, and Z and look at shipping it." Meanwhile, the engineering groups are working on X, Y, Z, A, B, C, and the rest of the alphabet. They will just keep working, because 10.4 is followed by 10.4.1, then 10.4.2, etc. It doesn't really stop.

So yeah, they *could* be lying, but I really doubt it. Such strategic product release decisions are done at a very high level, in a small group, and information flows out only when absolutely necessary. The engineers may hear through the company grapevine that 'it's close', or they may have their own ideas of what constitutes 'done', but frequently these are just blind guesses, and have nothing to do with what the upper echelons decide.
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post #62 of 128
3/19/05 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Nope. That's why I agreed.

Sorry, I thought you were being sarcastic.
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post #63 of 128
3/20/05 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Sopphode
Perhaps they umm.. lied.

No. These guys won't lie to me. I know them too long. I would never ask anything too specific such as: Is it coming out April 1st?

It's more of a:

Think it'll be close to the full term? Seems that way.
How are you doing with the feature set? Not there yet, getting close.

I would be VERY surprised if it came out on April 1st. Maybe May 1st.

But, ya never know.
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post #64 of 128
3/20/05 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I hope you were one of the lucky ones who didn't lose data on a Firewire drive. I did. And I followed all of the instructions. Three drives. Poof!

What happened? Was that with 10.3.0?
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post #65 of 128
3/20/05 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
No. These guys won't lie to me. I know them too long. I would never ask anything too specific such as: Is it coming out April 1st?

It's more of a:

Think it'll be close to the full term? Seems that way.
How are you doing with the feature set? Not there yet, getting close.

I would be VERY surprised if it came out on April 1st. Maybe May 1st.

But, ya never know.

The rumor is not that it will come out on April 1. The rumor is that a mid-April ship date will be given on April 1.
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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post #66 of 128
3/20/05 at 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
The buttons are aligned over the content section because the buttons have effect of what you have chosen below - not the mail boxes.
http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail1.jpg
http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail2.jpg
The buttons have (for some unknown reason) a different look, but the top looks like the top in the rest of Tiger.

I'm wondering if it's a new style of toolbar, rather than just special button graphics. Perhaps the button backgrounds are drawn by the toolbar rather than as part of the icons, and the gap between the button groups is it's version of the separator line.

Secondly I wonder if this is a new look they're moving towards for their standard source-list-and-window app layout? You can easily imagine iPhoto, iTunes and even the Finder with interfaces in that style.

I only hope that they make all the new widget styles available to all - apps have only just got around to copying other styles introduced in 10.3 (like the square list control buttons you see under list boxes for add, delete, etc), to change it now will be annoying for developers, to say the least!

I guess we'll all find out in a few weeks!

Neil.
a.k.a. Arnel
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post #67 of 128
3/21/05 at 3:40am
Quote:
Originally posted by J@ffa
Hehe, you and me both. Just googled it and it's this:

AppleInsider: Burnable folders, revised Smart Folders appear in Tiger

I see, and it's still there - called a Burn Folder now though.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #68 of 128
3/21/05 at 3:50am
Quote:
Originally posted by Arnel
I'm wondering if it's a new style of toolbar, rather than just special button graphics. Perhaps the button backgrounds are drawn by the toolbar rather than as part of the icons, and the gap between the button groups is it's version of the separator line.

A button's background and the button icon are two different resources, but the button backgrounds are included in the Mail bundle and not the system.

The groups are groups - you can't separate them and you can't make new ones (the buttons in each group exist in "single" version too though).

http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail3.jpg
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #69 of 128
3/21/05 at 4:31am
I think these new button styles are absolutely awful looking. The new platinum interface is very nice, though I don't know whats going on with these icons. Surely the icons without that bubbly background would be better?

Andrew
Andrew

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Mac-less until MWSF 2005
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post #70 of 128
3/21/05 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
What happened? Was that with 10.3.0?

10.3.8. I thought that I had avoided all of those problems by then. I didn't have the problem when it happened in .6, or .7. I was just as careful with .8.

I do what I tell everyone in my usergroup MetroMac Alliance.

http://www.metromac.org/

Don't ever update from the OS Update panel until you:

Unmount, turn off, and disconnect any external Firewire drives. Then

1. Restart from your original disks and run Disk utility. Fix disk, then repair permissions. If there is an unresolved problem, run utility and permissions again. If a problem still exists, then restart again and restart with the Diskwarrior 3.0.2 disk. do that and run permissions again. If all works then

2. Restart and repair permissions again.

3. Install update and guess what? Repair permissions again.

4. If all is ok, then reconnect external drives turn on drives. They should mount.

The assumption here is that the drives have a late model ATA to Firewire card with the latesr firmware.

I had all of that.

Normally this is by far the safest way to update. It doesn't hurt when you upgrade either. Always fix permissions after installing a new program, or upgrading one.

Apples' updates aren't perfect, they can cause problems. The upgrades are the same.
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post #71 of 128
3/21/05 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ibook911
The rumor is not that it will come out on April 1. The rumor is that a mid-April ship date will be given on April 1.

Perhaps I should have said "announce". Is that better? The point is that it would have to be ready BEFORE the announcement in order for Jobs to show it on the 1st. That's probably no more than four or five days from now.

Remember, I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just not the impression I'm getting.

I'm hoping it won't be out then. Don't forget that Jobs announced FCP 4 before the OS could handle the new features. I've got it, and I remember it.

so it doesn't mean that he can't show new programs and say that they'll be available in early June.

It's happened before. I don't know what's so special about the 26th anniversary. The 25th last year was more commemorative. Are we saying that the anniversary is a new intro event from now on?
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post #72 of 128
3/21/05 at 3:19pm
Quote:
http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail3.jpg

That is an absolute disaster.

As for how it works, what happens when you drag, say, Delete, to a toolbar that already has Delete/Junk? Or Delete/Junk to a toolbar that already has Delete?
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post #73 of 128
3/21/05 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac The Fork
That is an absolute disaster.

As for how it works, what happens when you drag, say, Delete, to a toolbar that already has Delete/Junk? Or Delete/Junk to a toolbar that already has Delete?

Yup. That one's been around for a while. There are others.

But it's not a problem because as we've been told here before by a "beta tester" that he tests e v e r y t h i n g, and that "Apple tests everything" also.

so it's just our imagination. Don't worry. Be happy.
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post #74 of 128
3/21/05 at 4:45pm
Indeed. Everything must not include the Finder and other obvious parts in Panther that still work like garbage (edit: mostly the Finder though), and will apparently continue to unless I buy another paid upgrade.

I'd rather have a well-tested and refined Tiger several months late than a half-assed version that, from my experience with Panther, will not see significant improvement in its lifespan. Mileages may vary, and I'm generally happy with 10.3, but there are just some really stupid things that haven't been dealt with. In some ways, I think Apple needs time to catch up with itself.
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post #75 of 128
3/21/05 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac The Fork
I'd rather have a well-tested and refined Tiger several months late than a half-assed version... I think Apple needs time to catch up with itself.

/agree
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post #76 of 128
3/21/05 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac The Fork
That is an absolute disaster.

I don't think it's THAT bad. I would prefer a more "industrial" them myself, but it could be much worse. It's a hell of alot cleaner looking to.

I like how buttons which don't apply anymore fade out though :

http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail1.jpg
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post #77 of 128
3/21/05 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
A button's background and the button icon are two different resources, but the button backgrounds are included in the Mail bundle and not the system.

The groups are groups - you can't separate them and you can't make new ones (the buttons in each group exist in "single" version too though).

http://lunddal.dk/misc/mail3.jpg

That's a little disappointing... Whilst the button backgrounds don't look too bad in the toolbar itself, in that customisation sheet it makes all the icons kind of look the same.

The other thing that's disappointing is that there are getting to be too many widget styles in Apple's apps that are implemented custom objects. Even worse, custom objects that don't even have some kind of common style between different apps (i.e. this new "pale grey" widget set they're using - the popup menus in the Finder search options have rounded ends, and in iPhoto they have square ends).

I suppose we could hope that they're using Mail as a "testbed" for this new app style - after all, the rounded search field was a custom widget in a few apps before it became a proper system widget in 10.3, and metal windows were being used a lot before they became available in 10.2.

Also on my request list for becoming a "proper" widget - that flat round button they use as media controls in iTunes, iMovie and the QuickTime Player apps. Make it available in three sizes, and the app supplies the grey symbol that's applied on top.

Neil.
a.k.a. Arnel
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post #78 of 128
3/21/05 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
Article removed at the request of Apple Legal.

Well by golly !
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post #79 of 128
3/22/05 at 4:22pm
Do the new Mail toolbar icons have a small option like other apps?

If so, could someone post a pic? I always end up using the small icons to save a little real estate and make things look a little cleaner. Thanks.
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post #80 of 128
3/22/05 at 9:34pm
good question. i use text only for my toolbars.
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