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Mac OS X 10.4 build 8A414 surfaces - Page 3

post #81 of 128
3/22/05 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesloth
If so, could someone post a pic?

No screenshots of unreleased software, please. If anyone knows about the small icons, feel free to answer. I'm in Panther right now and can't check it.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #82 of 128
3/23/05 at 3:32am
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
FWIW, I've mentioned here that I'm beta testing a third party app to run on Tiger, and the developer didn't bother to send me the previously released build of Tiger because it was so problemmatic. Well, this new build is apparently a quantum leap in terms of its quality, and I will be receiving it. So while this good news isn't indicative of an imminent release date, it's not as incongruous to put the April release rumor out there with this current build as it was when the really buggy one was the latest and greatest. BTW, developers are in the dark about a release date as much as Joe Fanboi.

Absolutely. The state of a product between builds should only really be guaged as a general trend across 5 or 6 builds, not just any two sequential builds.

I'm sure any developer would recognise this pattern. Sometimes you change something that makes something else misbehave, and then it snowballs from there. The general state of the code and product hasn't just made a leap backwards -- you're just seeing a lot of failures due to one oversight that happens to be in a core area.

Likewise, a whole lot of issues can suddenly disappear due to a fix in some code that lots of things utilise. A build where 'nothing works' is quite common, and not to be taken as a sign that there's a helluva lot of work to do.

For a taster, try playing with the Mozilla Organisation's nightly builds of their projects (Firefox, Camino, Seamonkey, etc). It's like software Russian Roulette at times
Cheers,

Chris
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Cheers,

Chris
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post #83 of 128
3/23/05 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by admactanium
good question. i use text only for my toolbars.

Hi,

Can you customise the toolbars in all applications? Have just icons or icons/text or change the size of the icons?
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post #84 of 128
3/23/05 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Well, I'll put it on one of my "safe" machines to try it out, if indeed it is coming out in April. I would do that even if it came out in June.

For those of us without "safe machines" I say wait till 7 days after it has been in the wild, by then, any major bugs or problems will be known, and if at that point it seems fine for my needs, I plan to go for it.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #85 of 128
3/23/05 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by xflare
Hi,

Can you customise the toolbars in all applications? Have just icons or icons/text or change the size of the icons?

You can customize all standard toolbars to show large orsmall icons, icons with or without text or text alone. You can also customize the layout of the items in the toolbar. If you don't see a "customize" icon in the toolbar itself, look in either the Window or View menus for an item, "customize toolbar...", or hold down the command and option keys and click on the elongated glossy button at the top right of the window's title bar. Any of these methods will drop a sheet that contains a selection of tools you can arrange in the toolbar as you wish, and at the bottom are the options for how to display these tools (icons only, icons with text, text only, small icons checkbox).

If you don't see the elongated button in the window, it isn't a standard toolbar and doesn't have the same options available to it. You might check in that application's view menu or in the app's preferences to see if there are any options for the toolbar there, however.
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post #86 of 128
3/23/05 at 9:04am
Thanks for your response
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post #87 of 128
3/23/05 at 9:44am
Mail toolbar icons DO NOT have a small option.
Tiger is VERY polished. Startup, copying, browsing, everything is sooooo smooth.
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post #88 of 128
3/23/05 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally posted by coldman1
Mail toolbar icons DO NOT have a small option.
Tiger is VERY polished. Startup, copying, browsing, everything is sooooo smooth.

Good to hear that it is very polished.

Disappointed that Mail icons do not have a small option. Hopefully this will get included in the final (but I kind of doubt it). I would use "text only" in mail, except then you can't have a search field. With text only would allow for that.
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post #89 of 128
3/23/05 at 11:58am
Oh, are we talking about the new Mail icons? I just meant in general, like in Panther. Tiger Mail's toolbar is an oddball case.

The new release is very good in most repects. Still has some gotchas, but they're mostly minor from the ones I've encountered. What I've taken notice of the most are the subtle improvements to a lot of areas.
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post #90 of 128
3/23/05 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Yup. That one's been around for a while. There are others.

But it's not a problem because as we've been told here before by a "beta tester" that he tests e v e r y t h i n g, and that "Apple tests everything" also.

so it's just our imagination. Don't worry. Be happy.

Heh. Apple could always do what the FreeBSD guys do, and put a feature-frozen build of the OS out in the wild for five years of testing and bug fixing before calling it stable.

We'd all be able to look forward to OS X 10.0 stable this time next year! Yay! \
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post #91 of 128
3/23/05 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
Heh. Apple could always do what the FreeBSD guys do, and put a feature-frozen build of the OS out in the wild for five years of testing and bug fixing before calling it stable.

We'd all be able to look forward to OS X 10.0 stable this time next year! Yay! \

That's actually not as funny as you think it is.

When mainframe OS's and the OS's for personal computers, as well as the hardware is compared, the reasons given for the incredible stability and reliabiliy of the former as compared to the latter is that very fact of continous upgrades, low prices, and poor testing on the pc side.

Really now, do we NEED a new OS every 12 to 18 months or so? Do we really NEED a new computer every 12 months or so? Or is it that we merely WANT a new one?

How many people get a new machine sooner than every 2, 3, or even 4 or more years? Business would be just as happy if they never had to upgrade. As long as their competitors couldn't either.

The manufactures have to stay in business, so they constantly upgrade. Growth, growth, growth.

But would it be so bad for the user if we could keep our machines and OS's for five years, and then upgrade to something MUCH better. Something that had been tested and reworked so that it was actually what it was supposed to be?

Not as much fun, no doubt, but certainly better.
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post #92 of 128
3/23/05 at 3:51pm
Can Mail's mailboxes side pane be moved to the right side?
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post #93 of 128
3/23/05 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesloth
Can Mail's mailboxes side pane be moved to the right side?

Move the mail window to the left side of the screen. Click on the mailboxes icon to bring the side pane in, then click it again and it should show up on the right side.
What the problem is?
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What the problem is?
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post #94 of 128
3/23/05 at 5:04pm
Quote:
I don't think it's THAT bad. I would prefer a more "industrial" them myself, but it could be much worse. It's a hell of alot cleaner looking to.

My concern was really with that specific toolbar customisation sheet. You'll notice that there are a number of duplicate entries, it's visually jumbled, there doesn't appear to be any organisation applied, and some of the labels aren't sufficiently verbal -- what does "Address" do? What does "Threads" do? People will learn the functions by exploration, but as long as Apple is bothering to label the buttons, there's no sense in being coy.

When it's considered on its own, I don't mind the theme so much. Some of the buttons look too small for their icons. It looks like the button height was chosen based on the 'arrow' icons -- Reply, Forward, Redirect, etc., without enough consideration for the more pictorial icons like Get Mail. The graphite colour weighs things down. It's acceptable, but not really worth it, in my opinion. The fact that there's a third theme, again diminishing the identity of the system for no apparent reason other than a disarrayed concept of aesthetics, is also bothersome. That's a more superficial point of view though; the real problem is the unwieldiness of the duplicate items, poor labels and lack of organisation that comprise the bulk of the design (of that sheet).
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post #95 of 128
3/23/05 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
That's actually not as funny as you think it is.

When mainframe OS's and the OS's for personal computers, as well as the hardware is compared, the reasons given for the incredible stability and reliabiliy of the former as compared to the latter is that very fact of continous upgrades, low prices, and poor testing on the pc side.

Really now, do we NEED a new OS every 12 to 18 months or so? Do we really NEED a new computer every 12 months or so? Or is it that we merely WANT a new one?

How many people get a new machine sooner than every 2, 3, or even 4 or more years? Business would be just as happy if they never had to upgrade. As long as their competitors couldn't either.

The manufactures have to stay in business, so they constantly upgrade. Growth, growth, growth.

But would it be so bad for the user if we could keep our machines and OS's for five years, and then upgrade to something MUCH better. Something that had been tested and reworked so that it was actually what it was supposed to be?

Not as much fun, no doubt, but certainly better.

You wouldn't be 65 years old and the CEO of a Fortune 500 company would you?
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

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post #96 of 128
3/23/05 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac The Fork
My concern was really with that specific toolbar customisation sheet. You'll notice that there are a number of duplicate entries, it's visually jumbled, there doesn't appear to be any organisation applied, and some of the labels aren't sufficiently verbal -- what does "Address" do? What does "Threads" do? People will learn the functions by exploration, but as long as Apple is bothering to label the buttons, there's no sense in being coy.

When it's considered on its own, I don't mind the theme so much. Some of the buttons look too small for their icons. It looks like the button height was chosen based on the 'arrow' icons -- Reply, Forward, Redirect, etc., without enough consideration for the more pictorial icons like Get Mail. The graphite colour weighs things down. It's acceptable, but not really worth it, in my opinion. The fact that there's a third theme, again diminishing the identity of the system for no apparent reason other than a disarrayed concept of aesthetics, is also bothersome. That's a more superficial point of view though; the real problem is the unwieldiness of the duplicate items, poor labels and lack of organisation that comprise the bulk of the design (of that sheet).

I'm betting that when 10.5 rolls around and Apple tweaks the GUI even more, that these new buttons and widgets in Tiger will be defended.

Most of these changes grow on us all. Some don't. I continue to look at the other side of the fence when pondering over these things. The grass still don't look greener over there, if ya know what I mean.
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post #97 of 128
3/23/05 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto

What I've taken notice of the most are the subtle improvements to a lot of areas.

I would like to know more of course, but these are always the things that make it fun to upgrade. You might be working with the new OS for a few weeks or even months and suddenly you notice a small change, something that just feels nice.

I work with XP everyday. I still keep finding things that irritate me. Tiger will enhance the pain of these discoveries during the day as well as to the joy of the evening when I sit back in front of the new OS X.
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post #98 of 128
3/23/05 at 7:56pm
The title of this thread is already outdated!
Apple works fast.
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post #99 of 128
3/23/05 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
Article removed at the request of Apple Legal.


Don't you think they're getting a little paranoid? I don't see Microsoft running around and removing articles that talk about a pre-release version of LongHorn.

I haven't seen such a closed-to-public company in a long time. Next think you'll know, they'll label stuff as "state secret" and persecute anyone that says/writes/thinks the name "Tiger".
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #100 of 128
3/23/05 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by kcmac
You wouldn't be 65 years old and the CEO of a Fortune 500 company would you?

No, I'm 55 years old and sold my half of my company last year. It's a commercial photo lab.

I first learned Fortran IV in 1966 in high school.
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post #101 of 128
3/23/05 at 8:55pm
Nothing personal melgross. I just get enthusiastic when I see posts that infer that things should slow down.

Big business is exactly what is killing MS at this moment. While Apple and Linux and the others can be fleet of foot or try to push the envelope, big business keeps a boot in MS's a$$. And anyone who works in a PC environment suffers for it.

I can see your point and those like it, but I would rather see where things can go, not linger in what we have.
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post #102 of 128
3/23/05 at 9:07pm
I don't know ... after over a year of point updates for Panther, i can't really notice much of a difference between 10.3.0 and 10.3.8. Sure they may have fixed a few *issues along the way, but I don't think releasing Tiger now or in June, is really going to affect the OS that much.
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post #103 of 128
3/23/05 at 11:20pm
Don't get me wrong. I LIKE getting a new OS and a new machine.

I'm just saying that there have been questions about these quality issues in the pc industry for some time now, and the reasons that I gave are the accepted reasons as to why these problems exist.

If the industry was slower and we had fewer problems as a result, no one would be the wiser, and so would not complain about it. As that is not the case, I can understand people not wanting to go that way.

Most people would take the problems and get the newer stuff faster.

The other way might be better in the long run though.
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post #104 of 128
3/24/05 at 4:29am
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember having seen this one elsewhere. Seems quite interesting. Is this feature present in the 8A414 build?
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post #105 of 128
3/24/05 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember having seen this one elsewhere. Seems quite interesting. Is this feature present in the 8A414 build?

Possibly only in Europe?
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post #106 of 128
3/24/05 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Possibly only in Europe?

I don't see why. Anyway, this quote is what makes things interesting:

Quote:

Some professional users were waiting for years for such a device. It will not be necessary anymore to invest into a Radeon graphic card to enjoy rotating your display the way you want it.

Anyone knowing what's going on here?
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post #107 of 128
3/24/05 at 2:34pm
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Well a VESA mount with a USB plug would allow you to rotate the screen physically and have it tell the Display Prefs to rotate the image automagically.

Since all the displays now have VESA brackets, this would let you buy a stand that would convert any of the displays to rotatable.

Just a thought.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #108 of 128
3/24/05 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Well a VESA mount with a USB plug would allow you to rotate the screen physically and have it tell the Display Prefs to rotate the image automagically.

Since all the displays now have VESA brackets, this would let you buy a stand that would convert any of the displays to rotatable.

Just a thought.

Yes, that was my thought as well, but what about the prefs panel? I don't remember anyone anywhere mentioning this option before.

If this isn't new, then where has it been?

If it is new, then it shows that they are still adding features, and what could that mean?
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post #109 of 128
3/24/05 at 2:52pm
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
It could simply be a test run of the extra bit for the mount, and not something to be included *in Tiger*. I could easily see them selling the mount and shipping a CD with it with the extra tidbit for the Display Prefs under 10.3 or 10.4. ie, it could have nothing to do with Tiger's feature set or ship date.
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post #110 of 128
3/29/05 at 11:16pm
Those guys at Hardmac don't give up. Here is another hint (almost proof) that Tiger will have built-in capabilities to rotate screens.
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post #111 of 128
3/30/05 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Those guys at Hardmac don't give up. Here is another hint (almost proof) that Tiger will have built-in capabilities to rotate screens.

It might not be that difficult to do.
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post #112 of 128
3/31/05 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
That's actually not as funny as you think it is.

I don't think it's funny, actually, except as a policy for a consumer OS.

I've worked with VMS for about 10 years now. Conservatively updated and absolutely bulletproof operating systems have their place, and I approve of what FreeBSD is doing, especially as an alternative to Linux's patch-a-thon.

But you have to admit, it's funny to think of OS X 10.0 just going stable now.
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post #113 of 128
3/31/05 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Don't you think they're getting a little paranoid? I don't see Microsoft running around and removing articles that talk about a pre-release version of LongHorn.

Microsoft is desperate for all the Longhorn-related buzz it can get.

Quote:
I haven't seen such a closed-to-public company in a long time. Next think you'll know, they'll label stuff as "state secret" and persecute anyone that says/writes/thinks the name "Tiger".

No, they're smart enough to let people refer to their trademarks all they want, as long as there's no dilution.

As hard as it may be to believe, Apple has gotten better. Most people remember the mid-90's, when Apple leaked like a sieve, but I'm thinking back to the mid-'80s, when they sued anyone who looked at any of their technologies the wrong way. They were deathly afraid of their own developers back then.
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post #114 of 128
3/31/05 at 9:34am
Going back to the release date question. Here it is March 31st. I haven't seen anyone here insisting that it's to be announced tommorrow for a while now, so here's some food for thought from MACNN:

Columnist Mike Wendland talks about upcoming operating system upgrades from both Microsoft and Apple, saying that Microsoft, who has been relatively quiet about the new features of the OS, is expected to deliver the first concrete look at the long-delayed "Longhorn" OSand the end of March and ship the product almost a year after Apple: "But Longhorn will be competing with Apple's new Tiger operating system -- and Tiger is about ready to pounce. Apple won't confirm reports that Tiger is now pretty much complete. But its worldwide developers conference June 1-10 in San Francisco is expected to focus almost entirely on Tiger. And with Chairman Steve Jobs doing the keynote speech, speculation is strong that he will announce its public release at that time. Analysts are predicting a halo effect for Tiger, with the system basking in the stunning popularity of the iPod and the slew of new products Apple has been releasing, like its $499 Mac mini.

Any new thoughts about release dates?
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post #115 of 128
3/31/05 at 10:43am
Everybody seems to be reporting that Tiger is almost ready for release. Supposedly 8A424 or whatever has removed all the 'prerelease' tags from the OS.

I'm surprised that MacNN doesn't know that WWDC is June 6 - 10.
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post #116 of 128
3/31/05 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Everybody seems to be reporting that Tiger is almost ready for release. Supposedly 8A424 or whatever has removed all the 'prerelease' tags from the OS.

I'm surprised that MacNN doesn't know that WWDC is June 6 - 10.

It's been awful quiet on that front. We had some pretty fanatical readers here about that. They seem to have disappeared. We should have been hearing more on this as the time approaches. Instead it has shut down. A halfhearted sentence from Insider the other day was about it. I still don't think it's happening. Remember "almost" means just that. We haven't heard about the Golden Master being produced. That news always comes out when it happens.

MACNN knows when the conference is. It was probably a typo.
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post #117 of 128
3/31/05 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
You can customize all standard toolbars to show large orsmall icons, icons with or without text or text alone.

One thing that's obviously lacking is a global preference for "Use Small Size" in customizable toolbars.
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post #118 of 128
3/31/05 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It's been awful quiet on that front. We had some pretty fanatical readers here about that. They seem to have disappeared. We should have been hearing more on this as the time approaches. Instead it has shut down.
... (snip) ...

It has been fairly quiet... but not really.

Tiger reaching final candidate status, as recently rumored, is absolutely huge news if true. During this phase of the development process, it is normal to be fairly devoid of rumors. Things aren't chaning rapidly anymore because we're getting close to release. There's nothing new to report because at that point in development, the only thing to report would be going from "almost done" to "done". The only new news on tiger we should expect at this point is perhaps more FC releases and then the GM declaration.

FC releases don't typically have as wide of distribution. We're down to the resolution of the last few major bugs. At this point, they're not looking for general feedback so much as the status on the few remaining problems.

Will it be announced tomorrow? Nobody here really knows. But indications are that we should expect word soon. THe final candidate stage of development at apple has historically been fairly short. (weeks instead of months)

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post #119 of 128
3/31/05 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by dfiler
It has been fairly quiet... but not really.

Tiger reaching final candidate status, as recently rumored, is absolutely huge news if true. During this phase of the development process, it is normal to be fairly devoid of rumors. Things aren't chaning rapidly anymore because we're getting close to release. There's nothing new to report because at that point in development, the only thing to report would be going from "almost done" to "done". The only new news on tiger we should expect at this point is perhaps more FC releases and then the GM declaration.

FC releases don't typically have as wide of distribution. We're down to the resolution of the last few major bugs. At this point, they're not looking for general feedback so much as the status on the few remaining problems.

Will it be announced tomorrow? Nobody here really knows. But indications are that we should expect word soon. THe final candidate stage of development at apple has historically been fairly short. (weeks instead of months)


Things might not be changing because the rumors aren't true, and it won't be ready for weeks, rather than being ready tomorrow as is being claimed. If it's not ready, we won't hear anything until a new candidate comes out.

Jobs won't say it's going to ship until it's ready to ship. If he does, and a problem comes up, he'll have a problem. As the golden master hasn't surfaced, we can only assume that it's not going to be ready tomorrow.

This doesn't mean that he can't announce new programs dependent upon 10.4 at NAB. That's been done before. "To ship in June".

It seems much more useful to make the splash at the dev conference. Those people are paying big bucks to be there, and everyone has expected it to be released then anyway. Apple would gain nothing by getting it out now, and could use the extra development time wisely.
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post #120 of 128
3/31/05 at 1:50pm
Actually I think it would be better for Tiger to be released before WWDC so everyone at the sessions can be working with the final release of Tiger.
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