Originally posted by groverat
When did I say anything at all like that?
What youre doing now is trying to cover your trolling tracks by ratcheting up the rhetoric even more, employing the clever use of smilies and straw men arguments you then rail against. Do you think youre adding to the conversation? Do you think you could do a better job adding to the discussion if you stopped trolling so much?
Bullshit. I call hypocrisy when I see it. You call troll any time someone points out the fact that your arguments are full of crap. Reading further down the page I can see you didn't even look at Jevon's paradox which I posted relating to this matter because you are still reciting the same tired crap over and over.
BTW, final note toward your hypocritical self, you brought up the baby eating rhetoric first and attempted to use this rhetoric to discredit my very lucid point about disproportionate use of resources being criminal.
So Mr. Moderator, if you don't like the posting style, don't spend so much time modeling it.
That is a horribly misleading analogy (which goes without saying).
This isnt just you and me jumping, its over 250 million people jumping. And doing a better job of managing energy consumption and looking into alternative sources
Wrong this wasn't about policy. There has been no policy discussion and if there were discussion about CAFE standards or something of that nature we would likely be in agreement. This is about smug self-rightousness created when one attempts token efforts and then brands themselves good and another person a warmonger.
The reality is that everyone in the U.S. uses massively more energy than most third world countries. Saying that you want war less because you use 4% less of what on average is a couple thousand percent is exactly the type of moon jumping absurdity I mentioned.
Do you believe that 30 million people buying 40+mpg gallon cars (who normally might buy ~20mpg cars) at the end of their normal buying cycle and increasing that buying cycle by a few years would make a noticeable impact?
It depends. How much gas energy would it take to produce the new cars which have much higher technology requirements than the older cars? How much does it cost to scrap and recycle the older cars? How many more people will buy additional cars that are now so inexpensive to operate? (Because when you have half the demand, the price will suddenly drop)
No so clear cut...
What if 3 million others decided to eschew cars altogether, move closer to their big city job and use public transportation?
How much is the energy cost to construct the high rises they will live within? How much to pay for additional infrastructure like sewage treatment, electricity, and water? How much energy cost to drill the additional public transportation routes needed for 3 million more people? How much on going cost in elevators, escalators, air conditioning, etc.
What if 4 million more couples decided to only have 1 car instead of 2?
Then they drive it around twice as much? How can you be assured that this leads to half as much driving?
What if 1 million university/college students decided to live closer to campus instead of commuting from outlying neighborhoods?
Then who constructs the higher density housing and parking structures near the campus, pays for the demolition of all the older single family housing that it will now occupy, understands that all the families that formerly lived near the campus will now relocate further out and possibly commute longer or different distances and what are all the energy costs versus what was saved?
You see, if I were a troll like you I would ask a ridiculous question like; Oh so youre saying that nothing anyone does matters so everyone who doesnt buy a Hummer is a big moron!?
But Im not a troll, so I dont. Do you see the difference in how you and I are wording our arguments yet?
I think youre using rhetoric to cover the fact that you dont really have anything to say.
I think the argument you posted above shows the naivity of an underemployed kid who went to school thinking words change the world instead of actions. Look I can model moderator behavior just perfectly.
The reality is that some people do buy Hummers. However people with big cars often get drafted to do big things. Try owning a truck for a while and see how many people who don't ask you to haul crap around for them. Try owning a vehicle that holds more than six passengers and note that you always get drafted to drive the large group around.
Life isn't so simplistic as you make it and claiming that it is simple doesn't mean you really provided a solution.
Yeah, thanks for catching up with the rest of the class.
Why am I constantly mistaken for someone who gives a crap about being seen as good and noble on the goddam Internet?
Yes, when I participate in the system I give that system positive reinforcement. I do. Me. I know that. Thats what Ive been saying from the very beginning.
Well enjoy your bloodbath. Innocent people died so you can watch steroid filled assholes beat each other to a pulp on a field in a stadium built with money that could have educated kids, healed the sick and helped the elderly.
See anyone can practice this I'm more self-rightous bullcrap. Better still let me use it to decide how your life should be for you.
Wouldn't that be grand!