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Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger build declared gold master - Page 3  

post #81 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
I don't know it's April 1st!!! Who told you?

Sorry the reason I ask is because you get people on this forum who make statements like fact and they have no clue.

Yeah Right.. as if I am gonna come right out and say.. Haven't you heard of NDA's?

Needless to say said person was just finishing off the GM Tiger install onto powerbook... I was told that snippet 15mins before signature was laid on NDA.
post #82 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Hadrian
Yeah Right.. as if I am gonna come right out and say.. Haven't you heard of NDA's?

Needless to say said person was just finishing off the GM Tiger install onto powerbook... I was told that snippet 15mins before signature was laid on NDA.

Whoever was doing that install had signed an NDA months before. This is not the time to be signing on testers. Besides, there is such a thing as "intent". If he intended to sign an NDA, he would have been held to it's restrictions before.

I don't believe what you are saying, anyway, because no one is allowed to see restricted information until AFTER they have signed. I've signed plenty.

That doesn't mean that whatever you have read elsewhere isn't correct, but five or six sounds a bit much. Three or four would do it.
post #83 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
They need a break? Most are on holiday? Very funny.

It has been reported on these forums that a large proportion of the Mac OS X team are on holiday having finished their portion of the release. There comes a point where Apple have to say yes we could carry on developing it but it'll be just as good to release it as it is and fix more bugs later. If Apple followed your reasoning there are always more bugs and they should fix them all. Apple need to make money and keep respected by the industry, it's a compromise and I'm sure Apple know what they're doing.
post #84 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
It has been reported on these forums that a large proportion of the Mac OS X team are on holiday having finished their portion of the release. There comes a point where Apple have to say yes we could carry on developing it but it'll be just as good to release it as it is and fix more bugs later. If Apple followed your reasoning there are always more bugs and they should fix them all. Apple need to make money and keep respected by the industry, it's a compromise and I'm sure Apple know what they're doing.

Reported on these forums?

You mean rumored on these forums, don't you? Besides, it wasn't rumored on these forums. It was rumored on Insider, or Thinksecret, then talked about on these forums.

Just like 10.4 was going to be announced today.

It's now 1:00 p.m. What time are you holding out for?
post #85 of 133
It seems like some are only here to piss on people who happen to be excited about the upcoming release of tiger.

Guess what haters, we all know that we're dealing with mere rumors. Being completely negative makes you look rude and socially inept rather than enlightened.
post #86 of 133
Awesome!

I can't wait.

Of course Tiger is still buggy. Apple could have waited until they had stomped out more bugs, until it was the quality of the 10.3.8 release, but what then? Then they release it, and there are still a large portion of Mac users who won't touch it until it reaches 10.4.1 or even 10.4.2! By getting it out now, Apple can begin to ratchet up the point updates, which may be nonsense but it is marketing salve for the souls of those Mac users with bug paranoia.

A 10.4.0 release won't even make businesses or designers who depend on their Macs for income take notice. These are not the audience for a new release. Apple understands this and instead of fighting it, they play along, making the point 0 version a beta, so to speak, and developing in public for the rest of Tiger's life.

I'll be installing Tiger on my alternate boot volume, and then waiting a few weeks to get a feel for the internet buzz. But being the computer tool that I am, I just can't wait to check out Tiger's new features! And no, I won't be putting Spotlight through it's paces by searching for porn - as a real Porn Hound, I can sniff out good porn on my own.

But seriously, Mac users don't put smut on their HDs. We're too moral for that!
post #87 of 133
Do you kids need a time out?
post #88 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Do you kids need a time out?

Well, these discussions can get heated. I've explained my position carefully, and completely. Several times. The only time when I got annoyed was when someone commented about something that simply can't be true.

I don't know where this fellow is coming from. Apparently he feels that the only appropriate comments can be from those who jump up and down clapping their little hands together crying "Yea, It's here, it's here".

If that's so, please let us know so that we will all act in unison.
post #89 of 133
just drop it... both of ya.

we've all been around enough to know that everyone has opinions and such.

no worries.

just go and continue refreshing apple.com

I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
post #90 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Yeah, when 10.3 came out, jumping in full bore was such a great idea! Unless you were stupid enough to turn on encrypting your home folder. Or you stupidly had firewire drives connected to your mac. Why would anyone jump right in with Apple's history of having such brutal bugs on the initial release.

The original poster basically was pointing out a sound strategy. Wait for the idiots, um, I mean the brave, er, 'early adopters' to install the new OS, find all the huge problems that are bound to be in there, and wait for them to be solved. No one's saying "If it ain't perfect, I'm not touching it!". But, you know, if you're going to offer a feature like File Vault, shouldn't you at least try to make sure it doesn't corrupt and destroy ALL your data???

To be fair, it was only some external firewire drives with a particular chipset, not all, but yes, give it a week or two of watching MacFixIt before you stick it on anything mission critical and keep a backup.

Most of the iLife05 apps didn't work very well either until .01 updates, especially if upgrading from iLife04. iPhoto was pretty much unusable and I'm still not convinced v4 wasn't better - Red eye worked for one, external editing was slicker and I seem to be for ever deleting slideshows now.
post #91 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Whoever was doing that install had signed an NDA months before. This is not the time to be signing on testers. Besides, there is such a thing as "intent". If he intended to sign an NDA, he would have been held to it's restrictions before.

That is presuming they had sight of it months ago - which they didnt. They are not testers as the testing was over. It was GM.

Quote:
I don't believe what you are saying, anyway, because no one is allowed to see restricted information until AFTER they have signed. I've signed plenty.

At the time they were doing an install they 'had access to the GM' which was unofficial. Cant say anything further.

Quote:
That doesn't mean that whatever you have read elsewhere isn't correct, but five or six sounds a bit much. Three or four would do it.

Well lets just wait until the dust dies down then one of us will have the pleasure of coming back with an 'i told you so' post.
post #92 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Hadrian
That is presuming they had sight of it months ago - which they didnt. They are not testers as the testing was over. It was GM.



At the time they were doing an install they 'had access to the GM' which was unofficial. Cant say anything further.



Well lets just wait until the dust dies down then one of us will have the pleasure of coming back with an 'i told you so' post.

When I test for Adobe, I have acess to the GM. but I've signed the NDA.

Apple is very strict about NDA's. They wouldn't give someone access to the GM unless they signed one.

Insofar as the number of disks go. Are you including the iLife disk in the count? And the hardware test disK? They are not really part of the OS.
post #93 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Reported on these forums?

You mean rumored on these forums, don't you? Besides, it wasn't rumored on these forums. It was rumored on Insider, or Thinksecret, then talked about on these forums.

Just like 10.4 was going to be announced today.

It's now 1:00 p.m. What time are you holding out for?

I gave up hope at 9.30AM EST if you must know. I just disagreed that Apple should hold out from releasing Tiger until the WWDC. Since Jobs said first half of 2005 I have always had my eye on April (wrongly or not). But Jobs' has always released when ready, I was disappointed when I heard he was going to release when they weren't ready in order to reach an arbitrary date before 64-bit Windows - I just hope it wasn't true.

And yes I am looking forward to Tiger and really can't wait to get the box in my hands and the train home reading the leaflet. This is going to increase my productivity, firstly it has the features mentioned above, but also I've got my PowerBook and then once Tiger is out I wont be posting as much either!
post #94 of 133
Steve should know that us Mac-ites get really pissy being kept in the dark. We get even more pissed with each other after reading all the rumor sites.

I feel like I am on withdrawl not seeing a Tiger release date today.

Eric
Hard-Core.
Hard-Core.
post #95 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
Steve should know that us Mac-ites get really pissy being kept in the dark. We get even more pissed with each other after reading all the rumor sites.

I feel like I am on withdrawl not seeing a Tiger release date today.

Eric

same here, I really thought ti would come today. I'm less hopeful about 15th April as well.
post #96 of 133
Yep....it looks like Apple fooled thinksecret LOL. As others have said, the rest of the rumour is probably innacurate too - no Tiger in late April.
post #97 of 133
I don't know if i'd go that far.

Many of us here have been in the rumor-mongering game for quite a few years now and have guessed correctly and incorrectly quite a few times. (not that that makes us better somehow ) It's a fun game to play after all, examine the evidence and the credibility of rumor sources.

My opinion is that a release this month is still likely. A handful of sources with relatively reliable and recent track-records are reporting that tiger is GM. A number of other developers have also claimed to have seen the GM. Although they may have only seen the build which is rumored to be it.

While AI and TS missed on the announce date, if they're correct about tiger's GM status, then release truly is a few weeks away. I'm expecting a short, fanfare-less press release which simply states that tiger will be released on such and such date allong with perhaps the scheduling of promotional events at retail outlets. This type of announcement will only be made after Apple covers all of it's bases. It needs to finalize printing and distribution details before commiting to a date.

As soon as they nail these things down... blammo! We get the boring press release we've been waiting for and a whole new waiting game begins.
post #98 of 133
At this point, I would be happy with 10.3.9 update. I need something...My .8 broke my network printing between my wife's pc and my mac. My mac's still go great, but my wife doesn't use a mac.

Eric Sitting, Waiting, Wishing...
Hard-Core.
Hard-Core.
post #99 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by BWhaler
(Personal attack deleted - JL)

It is amusing. Of course, most of what he is looking for can be done now in 10.3
post #100 of 133
Good lord people. What is with this give up spirit? The day ain't over yet!
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
post #101 of 133
Isn't anybody excited about the imminent release of 10.3.9?

That's just 0.01 away from 10.4 after all ( I know I know. Not real decimals)

Am I the only one to believe that they should finish off 10.3 first?
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
post #102 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by asdasd
Am I the only one to believe that they should finish off 10.3 first?

Finish off? You mean like a bullet to its head?
Ready for Power Macintosh
Ready for Power Macintosh
post #103 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by asdasd
Isn't anybody excited about the imminent release of 10.3.9?

That's just 0.01 away from 10.4 after all ( I know I know. Not real decimals)

Am I the only one to believe that they should finish off 10.3 first?

Not quite, but they can continue with 10.3 for several months after 10.4 comes out.

While they were maintaining a twelve to fourteen month schedual between releases, it was one thing. But if they maintain an eighteen month, or longer, release schedual, as they said they would (to the relief of most business's), then they would have to continue fixing the last release well into the next cycle. The longer the release cycle, the longer it takes to convert users over to the latest release.

That's what MS must do.
post #104 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by kcmac
Good lord people. What is with this give up spirit? The day ain't over yet!

That's the attitude!
I'm not too hopeful, but i'll probably give apple.com a quick check at 5:30 cupertino-time if i'm around a computer...
post #105 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It is amusing. Of course, most of what he is looking for can be done now in 10.3

well not the integration I want, I want smart mailboxes - not at the moment
smart folders - not at the moment
Safari RSS - not at the moment (i don't like using a separate tool and firefox annoys me)
Core Image - also no
dashboard - no, konfabulator is not stable enough or elegant
post #106 of 133
"Finish off? You mean like a bullet to its head? "

fix all major bugs so no more updates - with the excpetion, perhaps, of security updates - are needed.

I think you are wrong. I suspect that if 10.3.9 is released with bugs they will be fixed in 10.4.x
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
post #107 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by asdasd

I think you are wrong. I suspect that if 10.3.9 is released with bugs they will be fixed in 10.4.x

Probably not.
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
post #108 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by asdasd
"Finish off? You mean like a bullet to its head? "

fix all major bugs so no more updates - with the excpetion, perhaps, of security updates - are needed.

I think you are wrong. I suspect that if 10.3.9 is released with bugs they will be fixed in 10.4.x

It doesn't work that way. 10.4 is different than 10.3.9 in many ways. What fixes a bug in 10.3.9 might be written out of 10.4. The code that described the function in 10.3 might be completely different in 10.4.

10.4 will have it's own bugs, which might, or might not, be code related to those in 10.3.

That's why a bug that was squashed might turn up again, and a bug that they couldn't get rid of, might now be gone.
post #109 of 133
Quote:
It doesn't work that way. 10.4 is different than 10.3.9 in many ways. What fixes a bug in 10.3.9 might be written out of 10.4. The code that described the function in 10.3 might be completely different in 10.4.

10.4 will have it's own bugs, which might, or might not, be code related to those in 10.3.

That's why a bug that was squashed might turn up again, and a bug that they couldn't get rid of, might now be gone.

I fully understand how software development in Apple works. although bug fixes in 10.3.9 must be going into 10.4 unless

a) They were bugs only in 10.3.8 ( or earlier)
b) As you said a feature is missing

however if there was a bug unfixed from 10.3.0 to 10.3.9 it must be fixed in 10.4 unless they repeat the process again.

That wasn't my point. My point was if 10.3.9 is released with bugs they will not be fixed in another 10.3.x release.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
post #110 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by asdasd
I fully understand how software development in Apple works. although bug fixes in 10.3.9 must be going into 10.4 unless

a) They were bugs only in 10.3.8 ( or earlier)
b) As you said a feature is missing

however if there was a bug unfixed from 10.3.0 to 10.3.9 it must be fixed in 10.4 unless they repeat the process again.

That wasn't my point. My point was if 10.3.9 is released with bugs they will not be fixed in another 10.3.x release.

First of all, development at Apple is no different than anywhere else.

The only way that bug fixes in 10.3.9 would be going into 10.4 is if all the code from the sequence train that the bug was found in, ends up in 10.4 unchanged. Also, if it is to be believed that 10.4 went GM last night, or today, then they wouldn't have had time to integrate that updated 3.9 code into 10.4. They would have to test for that as well. Remember 10.3.9 itself isn't out yet.

Also, fixes in 10.3.9 can cause problems in 10.4, as I pointed out in my last post. 10.4 has enough different code that many areas that are in 10.3 are no longer there, or are significantly changed. There are whole areas of code that are totally new.

The development lines of 10.3 and 10.4 diverge. Instead of fixing faulty 10.3 code, it might be easier to rewrite it from scratch.
post #111 of 133
Quote:
First of all, development at Apple is no different than anywhere else.

....

The development lines of 10.3 and 10.4 diverge. Instead of fixing faulty 10.3 code, it might be easier to rewrite it from scratch.

The vast majority of code in an operating system is common from major release to release.

What you seem to be arguing is that if a bug were discovered in 10.3.x it would not be fixed in 10.4 and that is totally wrong.

In fact lets imagine a bug. A USB dongle does not work with 10.3.4 ( to pick a number rather than a .x). It turns out to be Apple's fault. The manufacturers contact Apple and describe the bug. An engineer is tasked to fix the bug for 10.3.5. The manufacturers can then release with a "works with 10.3.5 and later " badge on the website, or on the box of the shipping product.


Does the engineer:

1) fix it for 10.3.5 only and ignore the fix for 10.4 or
2) Fix it for both

If he does 1) he gets fired. It does not matter if he had to write totally different code to fix the problem in 10.4, by the way, he still must fix it, or all point fix bugs reappear again in 10.4!

In many many cases he would not have to do anything other than add the same code to the same file, which would prbably be common to both releases. If not that simple , however, he stil has to fix it in both trains.

The only case where this would not apply would be if a feature was missing. If a feature was radically changed it is not an excuse to introduce the bug in the next full release ( 10.4) and makes the external manufacturer's liars.

Seriously. An engineer to do that would be fired ( although questions owuld be asked of the testers too).
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
post #112 of 133
Which is why I believe both 10.4 and 10.3.9 will be announced on the same day.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
post #113 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by asdasd
Which is why I believe both 10.4 and 10.3.9 will be announced on the same day.

Wow. Took quite a bit of bandwidth just to say that.
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
post #114 of 133
"Wow. Took quite a bit of bandwidth just to say that."

I thought it needed explaining :-)
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
post #115 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by asdasd
The vast majority of code in an operating system is common from major release to release.

What you seem to be arguing is that if a bug were discovered in 10.3.x it would not be fixed in 10.4 and that is totally wrong.

In fact lets imagine a bug. A USB dongle does not work with 10.3.4 ( to pick a number rather than a .x). It turns out to be Apple's fault. The manufacturers contact Apple and describe the bug. An engineer is tasked to fix the bug for 10.3.5. The manufacturers can then release with a "works with 10.3.5 and later " badge on the website, or on the box of the shipping product.


Does the engineer:

1) fix it for 10.3.5 only and ignore the fix for 10.4 or
2) Fix it for both

If he does 1) he gets fired. It does not matter if he had to write totally different code to fix the problem in 10.4, by the way, he still must fix it, or all point fix bugs reappear again in 10.4!

In many many cases he would not have to do anything other than add the same code to the same file, which would prbably be common to both releases. If not that simple , however, he stil has to fix it in both trains.

The only case where this would not apply would be if a feature was missing. If a feature was radically changed it is not an excuse to introduce the bug in the next full release ( 10.4) and makes the external manufacturer's liars.

Seriously. An engineer to do that would be fired ( although questions owuld be asked of the testers too).

In some ways you are agreeing with what I said while trying to say it differently, and in other ways you are reading what I'm saying without any thoroughness.

I'll be really simple.

Sometimes a fixed bug will pass through to the new upgrade. Sometimes the whole code line disappears, along with the bug. Sometimes the code line is rewritten, and the bug is also gone, but a new one may crop up (even the same problem, but it won't be the SAME bug, just look the same).

You are missing the point, even though you repeated what I said at times.

I never said that NONE of the fixes would make it, only that some might. Pay attention please.
post #116 of 133
Alright, the condescension in here has gotten a *WEE* too thick. Time to throttle it back, or take it elsewhere, everyone.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
post #117 of 133
I actually think that they planned to announce it today, but didn't because the dying Pope is taking up all the bandwidth right now...
"I have a dream, that one day, my posts will be judged by their content, not their spelling."
"I have a dream, that one day, my posts will be judged by their content, not their spelling."
post #118 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Alright, the condescension in here has gotten a *WEE* too thick. Time to throttle it back, or take it elsewhere, everyone.

Give us a little slack here please, we haven't as yet gotten to the point of polishing our weapons.
post #119 of 133
I'm pretty comfortable ordering the family pack as soon as it is available. With 5 Macs to move up I have the luxury of starting with the least critical (my wife's iBook) and moving up to the G5 iMac.

I'm aware that it will not be "bug free", but feel that Apple will be comfortable releasing it at its current level. I moved to Panther as quick as I could and have installed every update which, as I recall, all had fixes of one type or another.
Ken
Ken
post #120 of 133
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Give us a little slack here please, we haven't as yet gotten to the point of polishing our weapons.

This isn't Usenet, and it won't be allowed to come to that. Insults may be the norm on other boards, but not here, and not in this forum. Cool it, or take an enforced vacation. Don't bait, troll, or otherwise antagonize, keep it civil. End of story. If you, or anyone else, have any further commentary on this policy, send it to me in PM, not in here. Danke.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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