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TS: New Powermacs likely at NAB 2005

post #1 of 127
4/12/05 at 8:02am
Thread Starter 
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5.html


Details are scarce at this point, but along with a bevy of new Pro Apps running on top of Tiger, Apple plans to introduce updated Power Mac G5 systems at NAB, sources report.

It's unclear whether the new G5s will pack IBM's dual-core 970MP processor, code-named "Antares" or its younger brother, the single-core 970GX. Neither processor has been officially announced by IBM yet, but Apple has been working with prototypes of both since late last year.

It is possible that the 970MP will be available in high-end Power Mac G5 systems, with the 970GX being reserved for the entry-level Power Mac G5. The 970GX can also be expected to find its way into update iMac G5 systems, and while Think Secret still expects new iMacs this month, it's unlikely they will pack the new processor.

Along with better performance, the new chips in the 970 family run significantly cooler than the current 970FX Apple uses. While they won't find their way into laptops any time soon -- based on current information, Think Secret does not expect a PowerBook G5 to start shipping in 2005 -- they will allow Apple to do away with the complicated and expensive liquid-cooling system featured in high-end Power Mac G5s right now, sources said.

There have also been rumblings that the new Power Mac G5s will feature Blu-Ray SuperDrives, making Apple the first company to ship the technology. Apple joined the Blu-Ray Association's Board of Directors on March 10, and Apple was the first company to ship a DVD recorder when it introduced the SuperDrive with Power Mac G4 systems, lending some credibility to this rumor.

Power Mac G5 sales have been down for the last quarters, partly due to strong iMac G5 sales and a stale platform. Apple last gave the Power Mac G5 a facelift in June 2004, and introduced the lowest-end 1.8GHz model in October. NAB kicks off next week.

I don't think this is good info. Blu-Ray drives would be at least $1k. Some somehow I'm supposed to believe that Apple wants to be first to ship BR in the computers when the format has 0 market penetration whilst getting chincy on what computers potentially have dual cores?

Methinks TS is deliberately trying to muck up their accuracy for whatever reason.
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post #2 of 127
4/12/05 at 8:16am
Highly likely I would think. If there is any way that Apple can announce the dual-core G5 they surely will. The G5 was designed to blow away the PC competition in speed terms as part of the whole 'Pro' strategy, but it didn't quite go according to plan. Dual-core Xeons are a ways off yet but dual-core Pentiums are due in a couple of months. A 2 x 2 x 3GHz G5 would kick serious ass until the Xeon's turn up. Big video card news as well?

Can't wait to see what the ProApp updates bring!
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post #3 of 127
4/12/05 at 8:18am
Oh, absolutely zero chance of BlueRay drives....
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post #4 of 127
4/12/05 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison

Methinks TS is deliberately trying to muck up their accuracy for whatever reason.

Create a fog wall for their sources?

However, their prediction on the Powerbook (not taking a G5-class processor this year) is nothing new for those that follow the developments in the PPC processor technology front. You don't need sources to predict that one. And I don't believe that new iMacs will be released this month.
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post #5 of 127
4/12/05 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally posted by vinney57
A 2 x 2 x 3GHz G5...

Do not bet on that one. I don't believe that we will see more than 2.5 GHz in the first dual core G5.
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post #6 of 127
4/12/05 at 8:25am
Re: hmurchison
Quote:
I don't think this is good info. Blu-Ray drives would be at least $1k.

Re: vinney57
Quote:
Oh, absolutely zero chance of BlueRay drives....

I was under the impression that Apple did the same thing with the 1st gen. SuperDrives. Really... when has the high cost of some components stopped Apple from including them in their wares?

Speaking of which:

Quote:
Monday, January 03, 2005


Philips Electronics, a world leader in optical storage and a founding member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, will be revealing its prototype all-in-one PC writer that reads and writes CD, DVD and Blu-ray Discs. The demonstration will be held on the Philips booth #9004 at the CES 2005 exhibition. The introduction of this unique all-in-one PC writer is scheduled for the second half of 2005.

Will it be expensive? Yes. Will it be in good supply? No. Is it going to happen anyway? CONFIRMED!

Screed
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post #7 of 127
4/12/05 at 8:43am
Actually, when Apple shipped the first superdrives, you could get a Powermac with the superdrive, for LESS, than if you purchased a superdrive seperately(I remember this being a big deal, and it was announced as such, and I checked dvd-r drives at the time and they were several thousand dollars).

of course a few months later, they were not.
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post #8 of 127
4/12/05 at 9:02am
Thread Starter 
The difference was that there had been DVD Burners for a while shipping..they were just expensive.

There are no Blu-Ray drives that support the latest spec. Basically Apple hitched into the drastic price drop of DVD Burning. This isn't the same scenario.
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post #9 of 127
4/12/05 at 10:07am
Did this story come from TS, or MOSR? Have they merged?
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post #10 of 127
4/12/05 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Do not bet on that one. I don't believe that we will see more than 2.5 GHz in the first dual core G5.

Yeah I know... just be nice for IBM to pull one out the bag every now and then.
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post #11 of 127
4/12/05 at 11:45am
We don't even have dual-layer yet, and they'll ship Blu-Ray? Seems extremely unlikely.

Quote:
Did this story come from TS, or MOSR? Have they merged?

LOL!!! In fact the writing sounds a lot like MOSR. If it'd included the usual references to "the grapevine" (MOSR loves this word) I'd have suspected plagiarism.
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post #12 of 127
4/12/05 at 12:44pm
re: blu-ray debate, i'm also skeptical. but there is one possibility i haven't seen mentioned:

standard config is DVD. blu-ray is BTO for $1000 or whatever. apple sells blu-ray media direct from store for equally royal price.

BTO+media sales boost apple revs for deep-pocket early adopters, while not scaling the default price out of the hands of mere mortals.

and by announcing first in industry, apple marketing gets to use that high-gloss superhero copy they're so fond of.

given the capacity of blu-ray, announcing it at NAB (if possible) makes sense. ie: target audience most likely to shell out big bucks to make their lives easier.
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post #13 of 127
4/12/05 at 2:45pm
When is NAB? Exactly what date? I ask because if it is toward the end of the year, I definitely see the appearance of Blu-Ray drives a possibility. Seeing how HP is expected to have Blu-Ray Drives by the end of the year, I wouldn't expect anything less from Apple by beating them to the punch.

Maybe wishful thinking, but conceivable.
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post #14 of 127
4/12/05 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
When is NAB? Exactly what date? I ask because if it is toward the end of the year, I definitely see the appearance of Blu-Ray drives a possibility. Seeing how HP is expected to have Blu-Ray Drives by the end of the year, I wouldn't expect anything less from Apple by beating them to the punch.

Maybe wishful thinking, but conceivable.

NAB is next week, April 16-21
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post #15 of 127
4/12/05 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by marzetta7
When is NAB? Exactly what date? I ask because if it is toward the end of the year, ....

NAB is a few days only away.

EDIT. Ooops. Flounder was one minute quicker than me .
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post #16 of 127
4/12/05 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
Blu-Ray is a non-issue right now for %99.8 of mac users.

How about Apple getting agressive.


Make iMacs Dual Core 1.8 and 2.2Ghz

The Powermacs can be

2.2
2.4
2.8 Dual Core

The only G4 based computers should be Mac mini, Powerbooks and eMacs full stop.

No G5 based system should be single core. Bah forget Blu-Ray we need some number crunching power if we're to deal with HD Steve.
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post #17 of 127
4/12/05 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison

How about Apple getting agressive.


Make iMacs Dual Core 1.8 and 2.2Ghz

The Powermacs can be

2.2
2.4
2.8 Dual Core

The only G4 based computers should be Mac mini, Powerbooks and eMacs full stop.

I agree. I think this is much more interesting than Blu-Ray right now. Unfortunately, I don't see it happen this year. However, I believe that the pressure from the x86 makers and vendors will make the dual core chips to trickle down to consumer space (G5 iMac) sooner than later (hopes for next year).
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post #18 of 127
4/12/05 at 6:58pm
I think the Blu-ray drive will be released no sooner than DVD Studio Blu, and Apple can't release that until the specs are finalized.
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post #19 of 127
4/12/05 at 7:12pm
I suppose we'll all know come Monday April 18.

?

\ ?

?

?

or

?

We'll have to wait and see.
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post #20 of 127
4/13/05 at 6:33am
I don't think we'll see blu-ray shiping, but I think Apple will make an announcement and probably show off a protoype.
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post #21 of 127
4/13/05 at 8:36am
Blu-ray would be a must have feature for the same category of people that consider a 4x3 GHz PowerMac with 32 GB RAM and a dual Cinema Display 30" setup a necessity. These people (and they exist wheather the actually do need it or not) obviosly have too much money so a BTO Blu-ray, just to back up their HDDV-snippets from their new Panasonic <$10K HDDV camera, would hardly get noticed in their budget.

Apple would sell tons of machines with Blu-ray drives and can proudly boast that they are first to ship Blu-ray as a standard addition and that they drive the evolution of HD video and technology in general. Sonds like Apple?

I just hope that they will be first to ship dual core procesors too, but I'm not getting my hopes up on that one.
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post #22 of 127
4/13/05 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally posted by The General
Actually, when Apple shipped the first superdrives, you could get a Powermac with the superdrive, for LESS, than if you purchased a superdrive seperately(I remember this being a big deal, and it was announced as such, and I checked dvd-r drives at the time and they were several thousand dollars).

of course a few months later, they were not.

No.

I was at the MacWorld 2001 Keynote where the Superdrive was unveiled in the PM G4733, and the computerwas definitely not less expensive than the same drive for $599 (plus $159 enclosure) that you could get on the show floor. The computer was about $3300 reasonably spec'ed.
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post #23 of 127
4/13/05 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Blu-Ray is a non-issue right now for %99.8 of mac users.

How about Apple getting agressive.


Make iMacs Dual Core 1.8 and 2.2Ghz

The Powermacs can be

2.2
2.4
2.8 Dual Core

The only G4 based computers should be Mac mini, Powerbooks and eMacs full stop.

No G5 based system should be single core. Bah forget Blu-Ray we need some number crunching power if we're to deal with HD Steve.

I have a fundemental problem with the intro $499 mac mini having almost the same processor speed as the fastest powerbooks available. I noticed this a few weeks ago when I purchased a new powerbook for my wife. I figure apple should be able to figure out how to stick that 2ghz Freescale chip in there at the very least. Not even going to mention the absence of a possible G5 chip...doh, guess I just did.\
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post #24 of 127
4/13/05 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
I agree. I think this is much more interesting than Blu-Ray right now. Unfortunately, I don't see it happen this year. However, I believe that the pressure from the x86 makers and vendors will make the dual core chips to trickle down to consumer space (G5 iMac) sooner than later (hopes for next year).

I tend to agree that this is a much more crucial topic. With the increased interest in Apple right now hardware is a critical place to close the deal. If Apple expects to increase market share I strongly feel they need to remain on the cutting edge in hardware and not just software. I tend to feel that thats why all of these financial advisors are suggesting that Apples largest area of growth over the next year (aside from iPod sales) is in their software. If this issue is still a result of IBM's problems then perhaps its time to consider new alternatives. I think a dual-core G5 would be just the trick to get me off the fense.
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post #25 of 127
4/13/05 at 4:41pm
crap. this really pisses me off. I was invited to the closed event but the trip got nixxed by uper mgt. Grrrrr.

Maybe I can send a minion instead. Muahahaha.

Hmm.. any takers if someone from my company can't go?
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post #26 of 127
4/13/05 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ZO
Hmm.. any takers if someone from my company can't go?

Can I fly out from Zurich instead of Paris?
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post #27 of 127
4/14/05 at 1:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by philby
Can I fly out from Zurich instead of Paris?

Can you believe Lufthansa bought Swiss? Swiss Air should have never invested in those French, Belgium Airlines. Stupid frogs ....
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post #28 of 127
4/14/05 at 5:29am
From Thinksecret

Quote:
Dual-2GHz
- 512K L2 cache per processor
- Dual 1GHz frontside buses
- 512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (4GB max.)
- 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
- 128MB DDR SDRAM ATI Radeon 9600 video card

Dual-2.3GHz
- 512K L2 cache per processor
- Dual 1.15GHz frontside buses
- 512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (8GB max.)
- 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
- 128MB DDR SDRAM ATI Radeon 9600 video card

Dual-2.7GHz
- 512K L2 cache per processor
- Dual 1.35GHz frontside buses
- 512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (8GB max.)
- 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
- 256MB DDR SDRAM ATI Radeon 9650 video card

This would be rather disappointing in light of all the recent rumors....and I think if true this would mean Apple is still using the 970FX with 512K L2. I'm also disappointed to see the iMac GPU may not be updated.
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post #29 of 127
4/14/05 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally posted by FireDancer
I'm also disappointed to see the iMac GPU may not be updated.

Try again .
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post #30 of 127
4/14/05 at 6:04am
Thanks FireDancer.

That seems like a serious stop-gap solution. Desperate I dare say.

Would Apple dare to release these PowerMacs and then present an, eventual, G5MP PowerMac already at WWDC in June, just 2 months after this (rumored) update?

We're in the market for an HDTV editing station, and we need to get the toppest notch stuff Apple can throw out at us ASAP.

edit. seems TS is pretty sure it will be the MP after all!!!

Quote:
Sources were unable to confirm at this time whether the systems will sport the dual-core PowerPC 970MP processor or the single-core PowerPC 970GX, although unconfirmed notes point to the PowerPC 970MP. The second core would deliver performance gains far greater than the 200-300MHz bumps each processor is receiving alone with the update.
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post #31 of 127
4/14/05 at 6:22am
I'd be discouraged if it were not for this one ray of hope. AMD and intel are both anouncing there dual core chips on the 18th and 20th (or there abouts) it would be clasic apple to be the "first" with a quad and get the added headlines by anouncing on the 17th!!! Please God!
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post #32 of 127
4/14/05 at 6:24am
They have released two revisions within the space of 2/3 months before. I can't remember which machine it was and i'm too tired to go searching at the moment. Anyone know off the top of their head?

Two revisions could be a possibility. Although I think a HD device with wireless/video G5 iPods (that 'talk' to each other)are likely to be the WWDC show stealers.
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post #33 of 127
4/14/05 at 6:25am
Quote:
Try again

Sorry....21 years of education and I still can't read.....go figure
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post #34 of 127
4/14/05 at 6:30am
Quote:
edit. seems TS is pretty sure it will be the MP after all!!!

Perhaps the 512k L2 cache reported by TS was just a typo? The specs given by TS just seemed to contradict their statement about the 970MP being used in this latest update.
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post #35 of 127
4/14/05 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by FireDancer
Perhaps the 512k L2 cache reported by TS was just a typo? The specs given by TS just seemed to contradict their statement about the 970MP being used in this latest update.

Yea I thought the MP and GX both had 1MB L2 cache? LOL It's probably just a FX with dual radiators. And what the heck is a Radeon 9650? I'm thinking that its slightly better than a 9600 and slightly worse than a 9700? These updates are crap but at least it means my current PowerMac is still in the line up
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post #36 of 127
4/14/05 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ZO


That seems like a serious stop-gap solution. Desperate I dare say.

Would Apple dare to release these PowerMacs and then present an, eventual, G5MP PowerMac already at WWDC in June, just 2 months after this (rumored) update?

Yes it does, and no way would Apple release a powerMac two months after a powerMac.
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post #37 of 127
4/14/05 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by FireDancer
Perhaps the 512k L2 cache reported by TS was just a typo? The specs given by TS just seemed to contradict their statement about the 970MP being used in this latest update.

But it isn't just the cache that doesn't mesh with the MP; the FSB figures are screwy too and therefore it's highly unlikely that these are dual core. That said, TS is also the site that told us Apple would be previewing some of their hot new ProApps on the 17th to broadcast professionals. IMO, Apple, OR ANYBODY ELSE, would be ashamed to demo their new stuff on such anemic machines to professionals who will also be looking at dual core Opteron's. Hence, TS' info is unreliable (for whatever reason) OR incomplete (no Pro line news).
Of course if I'm wrong and TS is right on all counts we have another problem: IBM. Why can this company produce a 250 gflop Cell with 9 friggin cores and not a lousy dual? Eh? Did Steve piss somebody off??
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post #38 of 127
4/14/05 at 10:00pm
I keep wondering if TS posted those PM specs just to p*ss off Apple legal ?
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post #39 of 127
4/14/05 at 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
But it isn't just the cache that doesn't mesh with the MP; the FSB figures are screwy too and therefore it's highly unlikely that these are dual core. That said, TS is also the site that told us Apple would be previewing some of their hot new ProApps on the 17th to broadcast professionals. IMO, Apple, OR ANYBODY ELSE, would be ashamed to demo their new stuff on such anemic machines to professionals who will also be looking at dual core Opteron's. Hence, TS' info is unreliable (for whatever reason) OR incomplete (no Pro line news).
Of course if I'm wrong and TS is right on all counts we have another problem: IBM. Why can this company produce a 250 gflop Cell with 9 friggin cores and not a lousy dual? Eh? Did Steve piss somebody off??

What's screwy with the FSB speeds? They are 1:2 just as they should be for a PowerMac. The only off thing is the cache size.

As for chip speeds. Cell is radically simpler circuitry with shorter traces to boot. No mystery why that tech scales farther than a complex OoO chip.
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post #40 of 127
4/15/05 at 12:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by Hiro
What's screwy with the FSB speeds? They are 1:2 just as they should be for a PowerMac. The only off thing is the cache size.

As for chip speeds. Cell is radically simpler circuitry with shorter traces to boot. No mystery why that tech scales farther than a complex OoO chip.

You are correct on the FSB. Was referring to a post I'd read which gave wrong info - sorry, my bad.

On IBM... this smacks of Moto days (if in fact the MP is still unavailable in quantity). And didn't we get a promise from them the Power5 would be available end of '04? Not to mention in June '03 an IBM spokesman was responsible for the Infamous Promise that has caused SJ so much grief. Somebody's draggin their feet and I can't fathom why it would be Apple.
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