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TS: New Powermacs likely at NAB 2005 - Page 2

post #41 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
You are correct on the FSB. Was referring to a post I'd read which gave wrong info - sorry, my bad.

On IBM... this smacks of Moto days (if in fact the MP is still unavailable in quantity). And didn't we get a promise from them the Power5 would be available end of '04? Not to mention in June '03 an IBM spokesman was responsible for the Infamous Promise that has caused SJ so much grief. Somebody's draggin their feet and I can't fathom why it would be Apple.

How does this smak of Moto? G4500 sat completely static for almost 26 months (including the diasterous 3 month regression of 10%). G5 jumped 25% in 9 months, and is set for the next jump. Intel has the same or very slightly smaller percentage speed jump over the total 22 month period. So if G5 gets to 2.7 it is 35% in 22 months, P4 ~25% in the same period.

Not close at all, actually gaining on the competition. Just not as fast as unreasonable rumor mongers would like.
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post #42 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
IMO, Apple, OR ANYBODY ELSE, would be ashamed to demo their new stuff on such anemic machines to professionals who will also be looking at dual core Opteron's. Hence, TS' info is unreliable (for whatever reason) OR incomplete (no Pro line news).

I think anemic is a little harsh. I mean, at least Apple doesn't have an anemic OS.
post #43 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Hiro
Just not as fast as unreasonable rumor mongers would like.

Then you would have to call IBM's OWN spokesman an unreasonable rumor monger since it was he who FIRST bred the expectations (in June of 03).
post #44 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
I think anemic is a little harsh. I mean, at least Apple doesn't have an anemic OS.

The OS is fantastic, agreed.
post #45 of 127
Hint hint...

Go luck into TS message boards... someone in there has "inside knowledge" of the REAL specs...

Let me just say... "3.5"

BZ
post #46 of 127
Dear Lord, here we go....


Dual 2.5ghz

* Dual 1.25ghz frontside buses



Quad(sounds funny doesn't it) 3GHz

* Quad 2.0Ghz frontside buses

Quad (Ready for this) 3.5 ghz processors

* Quad 2.5GHz frontside buses

The front side bus stats look funny from the 2.5 to the 3 and 3.5 because of
the way dual core works, i.e. much bigger throughputs. The 2.5 is pretty much the same as now except it's back to fan cooled. I can also guarantee when you see how the high end compare to what is high end now you'll think J.C. came back not for the end of the world but to bless Apple.


Ok basically I know they have released speed bumps in the past like what ts is saying. Remember though ts is in a lawsuit were they are supposed to give their sources up. Since that lawsuit they havent "guessed" right, yet. I believe they're eroding the credibility of their sources to try and protect them. I have great respect for Nick and the site. He has done a great job and this whole situation is not to good. Antares was supposed to start out at 3.0ghz the cooling article may have said 2ghz, but I'm sure they weren't going to put all the specs for different processors in there. Believe me if you are hearing about it. They've been working with it for years. Apple has probably had there hands on this since a few months before the 2.5 came out. Maybe even longer. The fact is no matter how much you search
you won't get info on it. Unless you know someone inside.

I can tell you guaranteed that a few things being said here on these boards simply would never fly at this point.

1. Some have said there will be 2.7 and 2.8 ghz powermac systems. Apple won't be making a powermac without a 500 mhz increase for a while. When they do make one that is not 500 because it'll be something higher. You will never again see bumps lower than 500 mhz.
2. Even if there a 4 cores and not dual processors the chip speed wil not go down from where they are currently. Apple has given little thought to the mhz myth in the past. But look in some of the posts around various sites of people dropping there powermac for an AMD machine. Believe me Apple is aware of how this mhz myth plays out now. You wont catch them slipping again, especially not after last year.
3. Remember when the mini and shuffle were released before earnings for the 1st quarter? Among all the speculation of tiger release dates i only saw one person on various forums saying tuesday before earnings was the day.
In case you didn't notice the new ipod lineup that was released in march was released on a wednesday. Powerbooks came on a monday. Apple has changed the entire release schedule's because of people not buying on the expected new release of certain products. You can be sure apple will never have a regular release schedule again because of this.
4. Intel and Amd love telling the press what could be accomplished by them. Steve is more an element of surprise type. Think of intel's theoretical mac mini they showed off and the press it got. Well now you've got hordes of people waiting for these new processors from Intel and AMD. Everyday you read an article about them. By the time there out they're already telling you what's coming next. So again people wait and think well maybe I can wait for a few more months. Now they're basically cutting into their own sales. But, wait where's Apple and IBM in all this? Well they're quietly waiting to usher in the powermac's and show the world they've been ahead all this time, they just know how to keep a secret. You see folks when that happens how does that affect the market? You've got 2 companies with a roadmap of where they'll be, and one company seemingly coming out of the blue with what appears to be a knockout punch (that will take the others years to catch up to). Where does that leave the other guys? SOL.
5. TS will not even be in the ballpark on the powermac's.
6. As long as iMac's continue to sell your not going to get any crazy upgrades on them. Maybe a few nice things next time around, certainly not dual core or speed's above 2ghz."
post #47 of 127
^^^ I don't buy those specs for a second. Just another low self-image teenager looking for quick attention. Unfortunately the backlash on reputation won't help the self-image in a couple weeks.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
Then you would have to call IBM's OWN spokesman an unreasonable rumor monger since it was he who FIRST bred the expectations (in June of 03).

Oh don't be an tool. IBM said 3.0 and they had problems, but they still delivered substantial performance upgrades, even if not the original 3.0.

It's the unreasonable rumormongers saying IBM sucks and Apple is doomed because they didn't make it to 3.0. That is what's BS. Everyone today is having trouble, IBM is still improving. But Moto couldn't find it's ass with both hands while everyone else passed it by.
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post #48 of 127
eWeek is now reporting the TS specs.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1786643,00.asp

As you will see, I posted a comment that those specs are hotly disputed.
post #49 of 127
News about rumors. Now there's a bastion of journalistic example...

</sarcasm>
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post #50 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Hiro
News about rumors. Now there's a bastion of journalistic example...

</sarcasm>

The power of rumors


Let's see......
TS posts disappointing specs the same day Apple posts their
amazing 2nd quarter results, then Apple stock drops like a rock
the same afternoon after Apple's flat and conservative 3rd quarter forecast falls short of analyst expectations.


Now imagine if you know that those specs are totally bogus and you buy Apple stock, the Friday before they announce the all new
Apple QuadraMac

Just a thought
post #51 of 127
Apple dropped like a rock in large part because the whole market dropped like a rock
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #52 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Flounder
Apple dropped like a rock in large part because the whole market dropped like a rock

The whole market didn't drop more than 10% over 2 days.

This may have nothing to do with the TS specs posted, but I considered the possibility.

I also considered that IBM failed to meet it's expectations and put the 2 together.

The other possibility is that Apple itself was more conservative with
their 3rd quarter forecasts and analysts may wonder how Apple's growth
will continue facing large scale competition from AMD and Intel now that they have both ofiicially announced dual cores.

Or..... the whole market is dropping because shipping costs and other petrolium based commodities are killing everyone and eating into profits.
post #53 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Hiro
It's the unreasonable rumormongers saying IBM sucks and Apple is doomed because they didn't make it to 3.0. That is what's BS. Everyone today is having trouble, IBM is still improving.

Unreasonable rumormongers aside, the facts are that AMD has a desktop dual core announced and soon to ship. Intel also. IBM/Apple??
post #54 of 127
Well it's good to know that some AI users would defend Apple even if they bumped Powermacs from dual 2.5 GHz to a blood-racing dual 2.55 GHz.

Interesting how during the dark G4 era, Intel's product line was irrelevant, but now Intel's GHz rating is used to defend Apple hardware lameness.
post #55 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
Unreasonable rumormongers aside, the facts are that AMD has a desktop dual core announced and soon to ship. Intel also. IBM/Apple??

When they actually ship, make the comparison. It's OK to wonder what IBM apple have up their sleeve, but comparing no info to an announcement that an announcement will take place is a bit of a stretch. It's only a few days until it will be valid to really bitch or jump for joy.

Wintel/AMD has a long history as a platform for companies announcing with a splash then maybe delivering a drib-drab for quite awhile before it really hits volume production, if they deliver at all. Just look at Intels mini-killer. It was just an empty cardboard/plastic box at a hastily called press conference to try to shore up investor sentiment in the face of a competing product.

Apple says they will have a Sunday conference, suddenly Intel/AMD announce they will have announcements Monday. That's just marketing playing catch-up and could very well be out of synch by a few weeks to months with engineering/manufacturing. Let's just see what everyone actually has to say about actual timelines before we doom a platform again or try to claim victory.

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post #56 of 127
Good God, Hiro, I hope you are right.
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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post #57 of 127
Before any of us get all too confident and excited, lets consider
cost.

We hope Apple will be able to deliver all this new technology
at some reasonable cost.

Generally predictions assume that Apple will still be able to come in under $3000 for their NEW top of the line tower, but can they?

Does anyone have accurate prices for these dual core chips?

I read somehere that the new Intel 800 Extreme chips were running
about $1000 each.
What will a single 64 bit dual core AMD processor cost for the part alone?

The current top of the line Alienware ALX tower gets rolling at about the $5000 range, so it may take a while before people start flocking over to
this new bleeding edge technology.

And... Spending THAT amout of money for a machine running
Windows XP will give many others second thoughts,
especially if Longhorn fails to be fully backward compliant.

I guess all of us will be asking ourselves how much we are willing to spend in the near future if we want the best.
post #58 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Before any of us get all too confident and excited, lets consider
cost.

We hope Apple will be able to deliver all this new technology
at some reasonable cost.

Generally predictions assume that Apple will still be able to come in under $3000 for their NEW top of the line tower, but can they?

Does anyone have accurate prices for these dual core chips?

Well considering that IBM's yields have gone from (expensive) crap to really good (and cheap) without Apple changing their prices, I suspect a 90 nm dual core 970 will not pinch Apple's margins badly enough that they'll have to bump prices. Also consider that Intel's single core Prescott is 112 sq mm and the 970MP will purportedly be around only 154 sq mm (based on 970FX at 66 sq mm, plus a cache bump to 1 MB/core).
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #59 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Does anyone have accurate prices for these dual core chips?

I read somehere that the new Intel 800 Extreme chips were running
about $1000 each.
What will a single 64 bit dual core AMD processor cost for the part alone?

Don't confuse cost and price. Intel and AMD are charging a lot of money for dual-core chips, but the chips are not expensive to manufacture.
post #60 of 127
Looks for his dad's old soldering gun
post #61 of 127
Brace yourselves for teh suxxors.
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post #62 of 127
Im willing to bet that the PM spec rumors are true...2.7 isin't what most of us have in mind as far as where IBM should be at in regards to chip speed, but from all of the dual core hubbub Ive been reading, it sounds like 2.7 may not be all that bad. Ive been waiting to update my G3 300 for quite a long while. I hope...but am not getting my hopes to high, that apple will debut a dual 3.

Someone explain to me in a nut-shell, the ins & outs of dual core
post #63 of 127
3:00 A.M. here
Ten more hours to go.

I need a life
post #64 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by hypoluxa
Someone explain to me in a nut-shell, the ins & outs of dual core

A dual core chip is two processors on the same chip. There's really not much more to it.
post #65 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by hypoluxa
Someone explain to me in a nut-shell, the ins & outs of dual core

The interesting bits are the details.

A dual core chip could be made pin-compatible with current chips. They would not be much bigger physiclaly than a single core chip either.
On the down side this means that both cores would share the same memory bus fighting for bandwidth, but on the upside these chips could be relatively easy dropped into existing motherboard designs.
Therefore most seem to agree that this is the likely design approach for the dual core G5 chips.

Basically it means that if you have an application which is all about data throughput then such a dual core CPU will not dramatically increase your overall speed as the bus is the bottleneck.
But if your application is computationally intensive it could be up to twice as fast as a single core machine - hypothetically. But tests suggest a maximum 80-90% speed increase over a single core CPU, not 100%.
In the end your speed gain all depends on your application and how it is written. It will be somewhere between 0% and 80-90% faster than on a single core CPU with the same clock speed.


The other alternative could be dual core CPUs with two separate memory busses, one for each core. This resolves the bus bottleneck but requires a complete redesign of the motherboard and memory subsystem. Therefore less likely to happen. Unless IBM manages to put a memory controller onto the G5 as well, which would make the motherboard redesign a lot easier. But there are few suggestions this is happening.

If you're not using dual core CPUs you can of course use four single core G5 chips for a quad configuration. But this would require two heat sinks, a much bigger power supply, making PowerMacs likely twice as big as they currently are. Therefore also not likely.
post #66 of 127
Dual core intel PC's will ship tomorrow, by the way!

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...15_194829.html
post #67 of 127
Conference is over!

§¨µ?¶£?§?`¡¡¡£¡¡¡¥??´?? !!!!!!!!!
post #68 of 127
no new PowerMacs

:-(
post #69 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Conference is over!

§¨µ?¶£?§?`¡¡¡£¡¡¡¥??´?? !!!!!!!!!

No, Apple's presentation at NAB is over. The conference lasts until the 21st, and last year Apple announced hardware on the Monday following their presentation.
post #70 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Commodus
No, Apple's presentation at NAB is over. The conference lasts until the 21st, and last year Apple announced hardware on the Monday following their presentation.

The NEWS conference is over

pardon me!
post #71 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Commodus
No, Apple's presentation at NAB is over. The conference lasts until the 21st, and last year Apple announced hardware on the Monday following their presentation.

it's okay ... let it go man, just let it go.

*taps shoulder*
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post #72 of 127
any chance we'll see the "pro" two-button mouse debut with updates to every desktop that ships with a mouse (powermac, imac, emac)?

just a thought...
post #73 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by dr. zoidberg
it's okay ... let it go man, just let it go.

*taps shoulder*

Hey, no one said I was certain that Apple would release hardware during NAB. I just said that the despairing ones should remember what Apple did last year!

edit: 100th post
post #74 of 127
I totally doubted Hardware at NAB, and I doubt we'll see anything until WWDC.

BTW, did anyone notice the everything is black in theme. Tiger, FCP, Motion, Shake, DVD Studio Pro, etc,///. Black workstations Maybe? That would be the shiznit!
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post #75 of 127
What hardware did Apple update the Monday following their Sunday special event last year? Thanks.
post #76 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
What hardware did Apple update the Monday following their Sunday special event last year? Thanks.

Powerbook G4 1.33 & 1.5.
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post #77 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I totally doubted Hardware at NAB, and I doubt we'll see anything until WWDC.

BTW, did anyone notice the everything is black in theme. Tiger, FCP, Motion, Shake, DVD Studio Pro, etc,///. Black workstations Maybe? That would be the shiznit!

Ummm, wouldnt they look too much like Dell's? Ugg (shudders)
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post #78 of 127
i'm happy there are no powermac updates. if think secret was wrong about the timing i'm inclined to believe they're wrong about the specs as well. i'd like to see a bigger jump.
post #79 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by corranroh
any chance we'll see the "pro" two-button mouse debut with updates to every desktop that ships with a mouse (powermac, imac, emac)?

just a thought...

Yeah, I'd expect bumped pro machines with HD-DVD burners to coincide with the release of the new apps. I guess we wait 'til Tiger officially ships until we can expect some new stuff.
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post #80 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
Unreasonable rumormongers aside, the facts are that AMD has a desktop dual core announced and soon to ship.

AMD plans to ship desktop dual core cpus by the end of the year.
They announced (the anouncement of) an Opteron 875 (2,2GHz) for a 4 socket server system. Opteron 275 and 175 will follow later.
2,4GHz planned for 2006.

I'm sooo impressed
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